Deep Aero Wheels

burnthesheep

It's all in the attitude.

If someone shows up to a group ride (no drop) for the first time with a Dogma F10 but can't hold 150w for even 10 minutes.......so be it.

Now, if this person is enthusiastic, participatory, a good person, eager to learn, and someone you'd like to have a beer with............who the eff cares? I'll tell you who cares: someone who is either jealous or insecure about themselves.

But, if this person shows up and is brash, won't listen or try to learn anything, talks smack, and is someone you'd throw a beer in their face.........then hate on.

I can tell you right now, no matter the equipment, one of you guys who'd laugh at that guy without getting to know them first isn't someone I'd care to spend time with. On or off a bike.

I've played golf shooting a 70 while another guy in the group shot 105. He was great company, maintained pace of play, and was a good person. But had nicer equipment often than I did.

I didn't care. That person was my grandfather who introduced me to the game and spent a ton of time with me growing up. Time I'd not exchange for anything.

I'll go with "trolls" on this one, but otherwise in real life (assuming it isn't some keyboard bravado) some of you seem you'd be some pretty crappy people. And that's a fair judgement of someone who admits judging character by appearances or ownership of "things".

AK_jnr

Oh come on, don't take it so seriously.
You are sitting having a Vodka Cranberry and a guy tee's up in front of the club house. He's got the red trousers with matching cap. The latest top of the range Taylor Made clubs.
Plenty of practice swings with his 1 driver and then shanks it 90 degress into the trees. Tell me you wouldnt p1ss yourself. Haha.

lostboysaint

I knew that was you laughing at me, you bastard!

(Although the M2 makes even me look good off the tee!)

micrographia

Great stuff. Thread derailed by an anti-consumerist rant from someone who is currently in the process of buying a new frame because he wants to fit slightly bigger tyres and has just bought a pair of 140 quid Sidis, without even a hint of irony...

trivial_poursuivant

I would imagine that the bike or wheels would be irrelevant in training. You train your body. If you put in the effort the results will show on the TT regardless of what you trained on. You could sit on a wattbike and train and get a better quality work out than sticking deep rims and riding out. They offer nothing in reality. You may go faster but it's not important in training. If you had a power meter and went 5mph slower but averaged more power output on training wheels that's worthwhile. That's where it matters. The illusion of going faster in training does not translate especially if you are not even riding your race setup to begin with. Where is the comparison?

napoleond

If training for racing/time trials it's wise to get to know the kit you will be racing on. Depth/type of wheels can affect handling and braking so it's a good idea to train on them at least occasionally.

shortfall

burnthesheep wrote:

Anything aero and people get indignant. "You're not racing", "you're not fast enough", etc......

So by that logic anyone not racing should own Sora or Tiagra components and ride a t-barred commuter with panniers......because if we're not racing......it doesn't matter.

When I hear that stuff, I'm willing to bet that half the time the person being indignant isn't the biggest fitness buff in the world either.

You're not Tiger Woods, so why own that fancy driver or set of irons? You're not Messi so why do you wear his jersey? :roll:

Either way the take home points are:
-math and studies show that fast AND slow people benefit, fast people in watts and slow people in time on the course
-they look amazing (you did choose a color of bike or a cool looking bike too, right?)
-it's your money

Ignore the haters and decide if the wattage or time difference (or looks) is worth it. If so find a set in the durability, effectiveness, and cost range that works for you.

I simply cannot believe we are arguing about consumerism on a bike forum. It's like arguing that nobody should own a cool car on a car forum. You don't NEED or won't use the 700hp and 200mph in that new Porsche or Corvette, are you? You're not a race car driver.

Sheesh.

Believe it. This forum attracts all sorts. There's a bloke in the Cake Shop section who seemingly spends every waking hour moaning about Brexit using multiple accounts. He doesn't even own a bike but he argues about Europe on a bicycling forum that he once mistakenly called Piston Heads which must be somewhere else he bores for England.

ugo.santalucia

micrographia wrote:

Great stuff. Thread derailed by an anti-consumerist rant from someone who is currently in the process of buying a new frame because he wants to fit slightly bigger tyres and has just bought a pair of 140 quid Sidis, without even a hint of irony...

I am considering a new frame to replace the current for the future, it probably won't happen to be honest, it seems all so very marginally different. The shoes were an accident... meaning I was on holiday in Italy and the shoes I had with me (a pair of Specialized BG ebay second hand purchase of a few years back that I was planning to leave at my parents house) gave me a terrible blister on a hilly ride as they are too narrow... so I visited the local shop (after all I had another 2 weeks of ridning 8) )... SIDI makes these nice wide feet option, which I bought... not many cheaper options to be honest... and none that did fit as nicely, I am very happy with them, bar the cleat thing, which is not a major issue and will be resolved

Not that I need to justify my purchases, but since you like to keep track of things, you might want to know the details, just in case you think I indulge in pointless spending whilst preaching austerity for the others...

BTW: the Spesc shoes are on Ebay again for a bargain price in case you want to buy them, the auction ends today, so be quick!

First.Aspect

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Not that I need to justify my purchases

Lets play irony bingo.

chrisjohnsen

So, after listening to all the great advice, I decided to follow the only logical path, the one of aesthetics. This path cares less about function and more about form and feeling (both physical and emotional). It turned out to be costly as I ordered the Enve 7.8 to match my Enve 3.4.
Thank you.

hambini

I think there is some merit to training on deep wheels and that is so you can control them in a cross wind and know when to put the hammer down when coming up to a hill - they tend to accelerate poorly compared to shallow wheels.

First.Aspect

chrisjohnsen wrote:

So, after listening to all the great advice, I decided to follow the only logical path, the one of aesthetics. This path cares less about function and more about form and feeling (both physical and emotional). It turned out to be costly as I ordered the Enve 7.8 to match my Enve 3.4.
Thank you.

Certainly not shallow consumerism then.

bobmcstuff

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

Are we too materialistic? Yes, probably many people are ... but does that matter? If they have the money, why should it not be spent?

You're not going to change consumerism by encouraging people not to spend money whenever they feel like it.

I think we are too different to even start a conversation about consumerism, so better leave it there.
I just want to say that I truly believe the quality of life of people has dropped dramatically because of consumerism... I'd rather be 35 years older than my nephew (as I am) than be in shoes... a generation surrounded by technology and things and bored to death most of the time... incapable of seeing beyond enterteinment having to come from things specifically designed to entertain in one way only.
I had friends addicted to drugs... a few died, some got out of drugs, some continued learning to manage the addiction... I am not sure my nephew's generation will ever be able to get out from the addiction to technology... and it is sad, very sad, because the experience is shoot and not even fun like drugs...

roubaixmb

Good on you OP.

jrich

So, after listening to all the great advice, I decided to follow the only logical path, the one of aesthetics. This path cares less about function and more about form and feeling (both physical and emotional). It turned out to be costly as I ordered the Enve 7.8 to match my Enve 3.4.
Thank you.

I've only just arrived at this thread, but I thought I would say that you made the right decision! Deeper is better!

I commute to work on a set of Reynolds Aero 72/90 mainly because it means I get at least an extra 5 mins in bed...

ben@31

Ugo,

Are you suggesting I'm not allowed to save up my money and buy the bike I want?

One aspect nobody has mentioned is... if the original posters purchase gives them the encouragement to get off the sofa and go out cycling more often, then surely thats a good thing. I hope he enjoys his new wheels whatever he chooses to buy.

In my opinion there's a lot worse things we could spend our money on than wheels that will give 1000s of miles of exercise, mental wellbeing and pollution free travel. I know people who could quite easily p!ss the exact same £amount up the wall on pointless alcohol or burn it on cigarettes for a year.

When you "built remarkably few deep section carbon wheels... a dozen pair maybe". Did you ever turn down your customers money out of principle?

Ugo, as for your Palestinian terrorist supporting communist principles... you will find that despite modern consumerism, the population now has a pretty good standard of living compared to the past. And what are you going to say to all those parts makers, shop assistants, truck drivers, warehouse staff, couriers, advertisers, etc etc that you will make redundant if you're against other people spending their money that they have saved? And then there's the people who are indirectly employed, to be honest there's some cafes I would have never used if it wasn't for the fact I happened to cycle past them. Or I would have never flown to Mallorca and stayed in Port de Pollenca.

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Not that I need to justify my purchases,

ugo.santalucia

ben@31 wrote:

Ugo,

Are you suggesting I'm not allowed to save up my money and buy the bike I want?

One aspect nobody has mentioned is... if the original posters purchase gives them the encouragement to get off the sofa and go out cycling more often, then surely thats a good thing. I hope he enjoys his new wheels whatever he chooses to buy.

In my opinion there's a lot worse things we could spend our money on than wheels that will give 1000s of miles of exercise, mental wellbeing and pollution free travel. I know people who could quite easily p!ss the exact same £amount up the wall on pointless alcohol or burn it on cigarettes for a year.

When you "built remarkably few deep section carbon wheels... a dozen pair maybe". Did you ever turn down your customers money out of principle?

Ugo, as for your Palestinian terrorist supporting communist principles...

To be honest this thread is over... you can bunch up all my posts out of context and get the picture you prefer, but the reality is that each of them has to be taken into context, which I am no longer keen to discuss here, because of this "out of context quoting" culture.

I am only answering as you seem to have put a lot of thought into your post and it would be rude to ignore it.

My rant started because the OP asked whether it was worth to buy a deeper set of wheels to TRAIN on a 12 km course... it isn't, simple as that.

He then went ahead and bought them anyway... good for him, I hope he achieves what he set out to achieve

As for the Palestinian thing... I am sure you didn't want to mean it that way and probably regret saying it, so I will ignore it

First.Aspect

Lets give Ugo an eHug. Or an iHug. Ugo, your posts are interesting, informed, and generally lead me to click on a thread. I'm sure I'm not alone.

However, as someone with a bit of disposable income who bought my fair weather bike essentially for aesthetics and for the way it makes me feel, I just happen to disagree with you, and wholly support the OPs pointless but I'm sure very satisfying purchase.

But for all the time and thought you put into your posts, I for one, forgive you for being a raving Communist.

shortfall

First Aspect wrote:

Lets give Ugo an eHug. Or an iHug. Ugo, your posts are interesting, informed, and generally lead me to click on a thread. I'm sure I'm not alone.

However, as someone with a bit of disposable income who bought my fair weather bike essentially for aesthetics and for the way it makes me feel, I just happen to disagree with you, and wholly support the OPs pointless but I'm sure very satisfying purchase.

But for all the time and thought you put into your posts, I for one, forgive you for being a raving Communist.

Well said.

burnthesheep

AK_jnr wrote:

Oh come on, don't take it so seriously.
You are sitting having a Vodka Cranberry and a guy tee's up in front of the club house. He's got the red trousers with matching cap. The latest top of the range Taylor Made clubs.
Plenty of practice swings with his 1 driver and then shanks it 90 degress into the trees. Tell me you wouldnt p1ss yourself. Haha.

Sorry, only Titleist clubs interest me.

I did almost piss myself when I first heard years ago that Tiger dropped Titleist sponsorship on clubs to take bags of money from Nike to play their stuff. Fan of Nike golf, I am not.

Wait.....they make basketball shoes that famous rappers wear....right??

In the other realm of things.....in the US at least......Diamondback was always seen as that one tick up from a bargain sports store bicycle. Now they have a legitimate presence in the serious cycling world. I say "In the US" because when I was growing up, a Diamondback bike was NOT a techy carbon racy thing.

ben@31

burnthesheep wrote:

Sorry, only Titleist clubs interest me.

I did almost wee-wee myself when I first heard years ago that Tiger dropped Titleist sponsorship on clubs to take bags of money from Nike to play their stuff. Fan of Nike golf, I am not.

Wait.....they make basketball shoes that famous rappers wear....right??

I wonder if they're really Nike clubs? But still Tigers preferred set of club just painted to look like Nike? The same happens other sports too

In the 1999 Tour de France, Lance Armstrong rode a titanium Litespeed Blade painted and labeled as a Trek during time trials. Several professionals have ridden Litespeeds painted as other brands. European brands such as Eddy Merckx and Bianchi have contracted Litespeed to construct titanium frames in their own lines.

burnthesheep

ben@31 wrote:

I wonder if they're really Nike clubs? But still Tigers preferred set of club just painted to look like Nike? The same happens other sports too

In the 1999 Tour de France, Lance Armstrong rode a titanium Litespeed Blade painted and labeled as a Trek during time trials. Several professionals have ridden Litespeeds painted as other brands. European brands such as Eddy Merckx and Bianchi have contracted Litespeed to construct titanium frames in their own lines.

Good call, and very cool info. Thanks for posting that!

Now you have me looking up examples of "brands/paint schemes on the wrong bike".

AK_jnr

burnthesheep wrote:

AK_jnr wrote:

Oh come on, don't take it so seriously.
You are sitting having a Vodka Cranberry and a guy tee's up in front of the club house. He's got the red trousers with matching cap. The latest top of the range Taylor Made clubs.
Plenty of practice swings with his 1 driver and then shanks it 90 degress into the trees. Tell me you wouldnt p1ss yourself. Haha.

Sorry, only Titleist clubs interest me.

I did almost wee-wee myself when I first heard years ago that Tiger dropped Titleist sponsorship on clubs to take bags of money from Nike to play their stuff. Fan of Nike golf, I am not.

Wait.....they make basketball shoes that famous rappers wear....right??

The old SQ drivers made a lovely noise off the tee though. Lol.

ben@31

burnthesheep wrote:

Good call, and very cool info. Thanks for posting that!

Now you have me looking up examples of "brands/paint schemes on the wrong bike".

It's not just cycling. But ive heard this also happens in cricket, tennis, Etc. If I recal someone on here posted that pro skiers will do a downhill then after getting to the bottom, they'll take their skis off and hold the sponsors skis for the cameras.
That's why when reviews or forums write "as used by the pros" I'm always take it with a pinch of salt. Do pros have that gear because they're / the team is paid to use it?

ugo.santalucia

ben@31 wrote:

That's why when reviews or forums write "as used by the pros" I'm always take it with a pinch of salt. Do pros have that gear because they're / the team is paid to use it?

Problem is the industry sell us racing bikes, but the majority of people don't race. It's a bit like buying a sportscar, but then only driving on public roads.
If we were to use race bikes for racing, then what the PROs use might be more relevant, meaning you can't ignore the fact that a Colnago C40 has won endless monuments and classics in the 1990s... it has to be a very good race frame... regardless of whether the PROs were paid to ride it or not... top teams with the best riders chose to team up with Colnago, rather than another brand... I don't think Colnago was the brand able to pay more money, there must be something extra there.

Other than that, yes, it's all marketing and bollox

cycleclinic

if we all bought what we only need the economy would collase. we buy what we feel we need. i do the same. thinging about lots of new kit for my 29er. as it is is a lovely fast xc bike. i could drop 1 kg of it though by spending alot money. i will of course do that because i want to even though the diference in pace will be small.

bobmcstuff

What's PRO an acronym for Ugo?

Or are you talking about pro bike riders...

fat daddy

meanredspider wrote:

I deliberately bought the lower-powered version of my road car because there's absolutely no use for the big-engined version

my wife does the same

mrs - Why do we "need" 300bhp
Me - We don't that's the whole point of having it

she just doesn't get it

mrs - Why do we need a rear wheel drive car
me - so I can drift it around roundabouts when no one is looking and get the back end out when I am feeling happy
Mrs - Why do you need to do that

seriously what is it with "need" .... need is so boring .... want want WANT WANT WANT is where its at for maximising fun

I need water - I want a beer
I need fuel - I want a cake
I need to post this letter - I want to take the Triumph out and do a quick 10mile blast on the country lanes to get to the post box at the end of my road, pass me my Carbon fibre helmet .... yes I didn't "need" that one

ugo.santalucia

fat daddy wrote:

seriously what is it with "need" .... need is so boring .... want want WANT WANT WANT is where its at for maximising fun

I need water - I want a beer
I need fuel - I want a cake
I need to post this letter - I want to take the Triumph out and do a quick 10mile blast on the country lanes to get to the post box at the end of my road, pass me my Carbon fibre helmet .... yes I didn't "need" that one

Of course...

But if someone originally asks whether it is worth to buy this or that... one might argue it isn't, because there is absolutely no need for it.

It would be different to say: "I want this or that"... which one would you recommend?

I also think upgrading and hoarding are two different things... buying a new set of wheels every year is an upgrade, I would assume the old set is for someone else to enjoy, racking up 5 sets of wheels for the same bike is hoarding

I knew a guy who had everything in double copy... bikes, jackets, shoes... every cycling item had a twin... we are all weird and wonderful, aren't we?

Mr _Tibbs

I love my 50's

No idea if they make me faster or better but they sure look purdy

Make an awesome noise too.

What other justification do I need?