Deep Aero Wheels

chrisjohnsen

Hi. I am thinking of buying a pair of deep aero wheels to use during training. But I have never tried this kind of wheels and am not sure if it is worth the investment. My intended use is for TT training on my road bike. I regularly train at a stretch of road that is about 12km long. It is not completely flat, but there is no long descends or ascends and in each end there is a roundabout. What I am hoping for is for them to be faster and better at maintaining speed and that it will be a different ride feel to them.

I currently own a pair of Enve 3.4. The wheels I have been looking at are the Hed 6 or 9, or something similar.

Thanks for any advice!

ugo.santalucia

In the days with people had more sense than money, a set of "good wheels" was meant for "racing a TT" not for training for one... these days of course things have changed and Strava has made life in itself a competitive enterprise...

Moral: what is the freaking point of spending 2 grand to go half a mile quicker in training? Are you actually racing in the TT scene?
If so, you must be aware that a 90 mm rim breaches (I believe) CTT UK regulations... on the other hand a 60 mm rim is not a lot more aero than what you have already got

meanredspider

Ha - whilst I can't agree with Ugo that Strava has caused competitiveness in cycling (it's only ever taken two or more bikes for a cycle race to start), I have to agree that buying deep rims just for training is a bit pointless.

fat daddy

meanredspider wrote:

I have to agree that buying deep rims just for training is a bit pointless.

is it though ? ..... I mean yes its pointless in the grand scheme of things, but people like to go faster

I cant believe that anyone here hasn't bought something for there bike with the intention of making it go quicker, even though they don't compete against other people.

are we saying that we are only allowing people to have speed enhancing components if they are willing to pay £25 stand around for half a day and then ride 10k ..... doing that on your own against yourself means you can only use shimano rs10s ?

edit: .... thinking about it, it is pointless .... if you are only racing yourself, it doesn't matter what wheels you have, its fairer :? if you use the same wheels as you did last time so you are at a level playing field with yourself.

as soon as you buy better wheels, you will be quicker, but as soon as you race yourself again on them, the wheels are taken out the equation as its you vs you

yeah .. save your money or just buy another bike that's different

bianchimoon

If you want new 'training' wheels just get them, don't ask a bunch of random strangers, you'll get answers from the sublime to the ridiculous, then you'll choose the answer that best suits what you want to do anyway.
Or if you want 'possibly' more relevant advice go onto a TT forum and ask the question there.

DavidJB

Disc on the back and tri-spoke on the front for training only.

slowbike

What I am hoping for is for them to be faster and better at maintaining speed and that it will be a different ride feel to them.

The last bit is the bit that matters really ... but TBH, training on your road bike if you're then riding a TT bike for TTs makes it a bit worthless.

It's likely they're faster, and better at maintaining speed. I've never ridden deep sections, but I understand crosswinds become more interesting - so I can understand a desire to train on the kit you'll be racing on.

All that matters really is ... 1) do you want the wheels? 2) can you afford the wheels? ... anything else doesn't matter.

ugo.santalucia

Slowbike wrote:

All that matters really is ... 1) do you want the wheels? 2) can you afford the wheels? ... anything else doesn't matter.

Of course, let's endorse a culture of entitlement and shallow consumerism...

At no point the OP suggested these were meant for racing a TT... training for TT without actually racing TT is in itself a pointless exercise, made even more pointless by investing money in it. IF he races, then my comment above applies... I think 90 mm front rims are too deep for CTT UK regulations

timothyw

Don't bother buying new wheels for TT training on a road bike.

Spend the money on clip on TT bars for your road bike, or put the money towards a new TT bike.

Either of those will make you considerably faster than new wheels.

chrisjohnsen

Hi, thank for the advice. I was not really interested in a debate about if it is wise to speed the money or not. I was hoping more on some thoughts about how the ride feel and quality will be different from what I experience today. I understand that it might seem pointless just using them for training, but since I dońt race, but enjoy and spend a lot of time riding/training, I still find it relevant if there is a significant difference in I will experience them.

bianchimoon

chrisjohnsen wrote:

Hi, thank for the advice. I was not really interested in a debate about if it is wise to speed the money or not. I was hoping more on some thoughts about how the ride feel and quality will be different from what I experience today. I understand that it might seem pointless just using them for training, but since I dońt race, but enjoy and spend a lot of time riding/training, I still find it relevant if there is a significant difference in I will experience them.

Yes, mentally, physically and aurally, they will feel different.
Being really shallow, i recently bought my second set after the first mavic carbones didn't live up to expectations longevity wise, so went for some 'cheap' chinese 50mm's had them on for a couple of months now, and have to say am really pleased with the cost/looks/benefit ratio

AK_jnr

chrisjohnsen wrote:

Hi, thank for the advice. I was not really interested in a debate about if it is wise to speed the money or not. .

Well you were as you asked if it was worth the investment...

Manipulate your strava data. Save yourself the hassle

meanredspider

Yeah - by all means but some. I have some RS80 C50s that I bought when they were stupidly cheap around the time the RS81s came out. At the time I was regularly riding very flat but windy centuries around the Markermeer in NL. I honestly have no idea whether they helped but when you're doing 50-60k directly into a headwind on an exposed raised cycle path, I'm sure they helped mentally. Clip-on aero bars made far more of a difference though. As did a few degrees of warmth. I'd be riding at closer 30kmh rather than 45kmh though and they may or may not be more useful at that speed.

imposter2.0

chrisjohnsen wrote:

Hi, thank for the advice. I was not really interested in a debate about if it is wise to speed the money or not. I was hoping more on some thoughts about how the ride feel and quality will be different from what I experience today. I understand that it might seem pointless just using them for training, but since I dońt race, but enjoy and spend a lot of time riding/training, I still find it relevant if there is a significant difference in I will experience them.

So you don't TT, but you just want to look like a TTer. In which case, get them. Problem solved.

ugo.santalucia

AK_jnr wrote:

chrisjohnsen wrote:

Hi, thank for the advice. I was not really interested in a debate about if it is wise to speed the money or not. .

Well you were as you asked if it was worth the investment...

Exactly!

Without that line I wouldn't even bother to enter a discussion about it. As above, you don't race TT, you can't even say "I train for TT"... all you do is trying to go as fast as you can on a 12 km course. Get an E-bike... got dropped on the flat by a guy on an e-MTB in Italy... lovely piece of kit

chrisjohnsen

My bad on worth the investment line. Still, I don´t just want to look like a TT rider. I am, as I said, looking for a difference in ride quality and feel. And I don´t agere that it is a waste doing TT training, even if I don´t race. It is still a great and enjoyable workout that benefits my fitness and riding.

benjamess

chrisjohnsen wrote:

My bad on worth the investment line. Still, I don´t just want to look like a TT rider. I am, as I said, looking for a difference in ride quality and feel. And I don´t agere that it is a waste doing TT training, even if I don´t race. It is still a great and enjoyable workout that benefits my fitness and riding.

surely your local club runs a 10? enter it, buy the wheels and just call them your race wheels.

imposter2.0

chrisjohnsen wrote:

And I don´t agere that it is a waste doing TT training, even if I don´t race. It is still a great and enjoyable workout that benefits my fitness and riding.

True. In which case, your wheel choice is irrelevant.

slowbike

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

All that matters really is ... 1) do you want the wheels? 2) can you afford the wheels? ... anything else doesn't matter.

Of course, let's endorse a culture of entitlement and shallow consumerism...

Think about it ...

If someone has a lot of money in the bank then what's better for everyone else? That they leave the money in the bank or that they spend it on something frivolous - thus releasing that money into the economy to be used by other people? What else would it be spent on?

ugo.santalucia wrote:

At no point the OP suggested these were meant for racing a TT... training for TT without actually racing TT is in itself a pointless exercise, made even more pointless by investing money in it. IF he races, then my comment above applies... I think 90 mm front rims are too deep for CTT UK regulations

Quite frankly, a TT is a pointless excercise - you spend money to ride your bike as fast as you can on (usually) open public roads whilst being timed around that course. You don't have to spend money to ride your bike as fast as you can go, you can use a stopwatch to time yourself and what was the point in going as fast as possible? It didn't matter - it wasn't essential ... not many things we do in life are that essential ...
The bit about the 90mm rims is important - if he wants to race CTT races...

fat daddy

benjamess wrote:

surely your local club runs a 10? enter it, buy the wheels and just call them your race wheels.

don't post that you are doing this though ...... as we all know from previous threads, when you enter a TT you are not racing other people, you are racing yourself .... and that is completely different from racing yourself in training

basically, don't post asking advice on purchasing anything on the forum .. instead word your question thusly

Pah, I look down upon everybody as I should, yet I was pondering what the difference in feel and performance is between diferent depth wheels from 35mm 60mm and 90mm ... I do this so I can scoff at anyone that has spent money on them that doesn't have a lucrative pro contract

that should cover you ... sure you'll still get a smart arse patronising comment from Imposter ... but if you look past the attitude the answer will be relevant

ugo.santalucia

Slowbike wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

All that matters really is ... 1) do you want the wheels? 2) can you afford the wheels? ... anything else doesn't matter.

Of course, let's endorse a culture of entitlement and shallow consumerism...

Think about it ...

If someone has a lot of money in the bank then what's better for everyone else? That they leave the money in the bank or that they spend it on something frivolous - thus releasing that money into the economy to be used by other people? What else would it be spent on?

ugo.santalucia wrote:

At no point the OP suggested these were meant for racing a TT... training for TT without actually racing TT is in itself a pointless exercise, made even more pointless by investing money in it. IF he races, then my comment above applies... I think 90 mm front rims are too deep for CTT UK regulations

Quite frankly, a TT is a pointless excercise - you spend money to ride your bike as fast as you can on (usually) open public roads whilst being timed around that course. You don't have to spend money to ride your bike as fast as you can go, you can use a stopwatch to time yourself and what was the point in going as fast as possible? It didn't matter - it wasn't essential ... not many things we do in life are that essential ...
The bit about the 90mm rims is important - if he wants to race CTT races...

I completely dissociate myself from the culture of "you want it, you can afford it, you should buy it"... it's the reason the world is in this mess to be honest... entitlement and consumerism... I can give you a list of 500 things you can do with your disposable income that are more meaningful than buying shoot you don't need.

Bit of a dangerous thing to say "TT are pointless"... both Boardman and Obree came from a CTT background... Dowsett and Wiggins did quite a lot of CTT races and of course Dr Hutch built a career in cycling around them...

CTT races are dull, but I wouldn't say they are more pointless or duller than bunch races at Hillingdon to be honest... one might argue all races are pointless then... wouldn't be me though..

MiddleRinger

Just go all out and buy a TT bike. It will make you faster and they're a blast to ride and train on.

Then enter some local club time trials.

DavidJB

I train on my Campagnolo Bora 35 tubs and 'race bike' all summer...but I also race it...can't tell I've I'm breaking the "rules" or not...:(...Sometimes I train on my Firestrikes too...

bianchimoon

fat daddy wrote:

benjamess wrote:

surely your local club runs a 10? enter it, buy the wheels and just call them your race wheels.

don't post that you are doing this though ...... as we all know from previous threads, when you enter a TT you are not racing other people, you are racing yourself .... and that is completely different from racing yourself in training

basically, don't post asking advice on purchasing anything on the forum .. instead word your question thusly

Pah, I look down upon everybody as I should, yet I was pondering what the difference in feel and performance is between diferent depth wheels from 35mm 60mm and 90mm ... I do this so I can scoff at anyone that has spent money on them that doesn't have a lucrative pro contract

that should cover you ... sure you'll still get a smart ars* patronising comment from Imposter ... but if you look past the attitude the answer will be relevant

ugo.santalucia

DavidJB wrote:

I train on my Campagnolo Bora 35 tubs and 'race bike' all summer...but I also race it...can't tell I've I'm breaking the "rules" or not...:(...Sometimes I train on my Firestrikes too...

I don't think it's the point... the OP has a set of high end carbon wheels, but wants some marginally deeper ones to go marginally faster on a non competitive 12 km stretch of road (most likely including a few Strava segments me thinks)... would you "upgrade" to do that or not?

meanredspider

ugo.santalucia wrote:

I completely dissociate myself from the culture of "you want it, you can afford it, you should buy it"... it's the reason the world is in this mess to be honest... entitlement and consumerism...

Probably for a whole new thread but, the trouble, if people didnt spend money like the, the world would grind to a halt. Wealth creation comes from this behaviour - it's probably the greatest reason why communism doesn't work. I actually think you have a point in general, though, and there's no doubt that just having more "stuff" doesn't make you happy.

ugo.santalucia

meanredspider wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

I completely dissociate myself from the culture of "you want it, you can afford it, you should buy it"... it's the reason the world is in this mess to be honest... entitlement and consumerism...

Probably for a whole new thread but, the trouble, if people didnt spend money like the, the world would grind to a halt. Wealth creation comes from this behaviour - it's probably the greatest reason why communism doesn't work. I actually think you have a point in general, though, and there's no doubt that just having more "stuff" doesn't make you happy.

So you are saying it is too late to change the world and we have to feed the beast... personally I think at some point we'll have to come to term with the unsustainable way we live our lives... I certainly don't want to be part-responsible of a failing economy so that we can keep the facade that all is well because the GDP is growing...

I am not to the point of going money-less or preach to live like a monk, but certainly prior to the 1980s things made a lot more sense...

Bobbinogs

ugo.santalucia wrote:

... prior to the 1980s things made a lot more sense...

I am not sure my platform shoes and voluminous patch pocket trousers made much sense, looking back

slowbike

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Bit of a dangerous thing to say "TT are pointless"... both Boardman and Obree came from a CTT background... Dowsett and Wiggins did quite a lot of CTT races and of course Dr Hutch built a career in cycling around them...

CTT races are dull, but I wouldn't say they are more pointless or duller than bunch races at Hillingdon to be honest... one might argue all races are pointless then... wouldn't be me though..

What is the point to riding your bike? Unless you're using it as transport to get you from A to B (and may be back again) for some other useful purpose - then it can be argued it's a pointless activity.

Whats the point in me riding TTs? I'm of an age and fitness where nothing will come of it - and you can't really say that the TTs are enjoyable - so there's no point in doing them.
Except of course, I have (or had) the time to do them and enjoyed the satisfaction of putting in better times as my experience and power increased, then I got a TT bike and some better wheels (for not much) - another decrease in my time - just for my personal satisfaction ... the tea and cake afterwards was nothing to do with it!

Going back to your consumerism - is your beef that everyone knows the price of everything and the value of nothing? There's apparently more disposable income or easy ways to pay for what you want now rather than having to save up for it?
Back in the 70's - families had 1 car, black and white telly - a colour one if you were well off - 2 TVs - wow, luxury ...

These days, 1 car families are unusual - but then the cost of the car has dropped in releative terms. TVs? 2 a penny and you'll struggle to get a black and white one.

Are we too materialistic? Yes, probably many people are ... but does that matter? If they have the money, why should it not be spent?

500 better ways to spend the money? Better for who? Unless you're giving it away to charity then better is subjective.
what do the wheels cost? £2k? What better way should the money be spent? Essentials like food, water, electricity? I assume there's already money going on those and this 2k is surplus ...
New bike? That's as bad as new wheels isn't it?
Holiday experience? 2k would get you a decent holiday yes - the memories could last a lifetime - but 2k on the wheels that last 3-4 seasons and give the rider additional satisfaction over that time? Arguable each way.
What else? Accomodation? Savings? It's all subjective and the value of it depends what it means to the OP - 2k may be a drop in the ocean or may be the result of several years saving - we don't know and quite frankly, it doesn't matter.

You're not going to change consumerism by encouraging people not to spend money whenever they feel like it.

ugo.santalucia

Slowbike wrote:

Are we too materialistic? Yes, probably many people are ... but does that matter? If they have the money, why should it not be spent?

You're not going to change consumerism by encouraging people not to spend money whenever they feel like it.

I think we are too different to even start a conversation about consumerism, so better leave it there.
I just want to say that I truly believe the quality of life of people has dropped dramatically because of consumerism... I'd rather be 35 years older than my nephew (as I am) than be in shoes... a generation surrounded by technology and things and bored to death most of the time... incapable of seeing beyond enterteinment having to come from things specifically designed to entertain in one way only.
I had friends addicted to drugs... a few died, some got out of drugs, some continued learning to manage the addiction... I am not sure my nephew's generation will ever be able to get out from the addiction to technology... and it is sad, very sad, because the experience is shoot and not even fun like drugs...

chippyk

meanredspider wrote:

Yeah - by all means but some. I have some RS80 C50s that I bought when they were stupidly cheap around the time the RS81s came out. At the time I was regularly riding very flat but windy centuries around the Markermeer in NL. I honestly have no idea whether they helped but when you're doing 50-60k directly into a headwind on an exposed raised cycle path, I'm sure they helped mentally. Clip-on aero bars made far more of a difference though. As did a few degrees of warmth. I'd be riding at closer 30kmh rather than 45kmh though and they may or may not be more useful at that speed.

I used to live next to the Gooimeer, there was very little I found more dispiriting than heading home into a strong headwind on a straight cycle path by the lake. It felt like you weren't moving.