The state of the bike industry today

meanredspider

I'm not suggesting just the LBSs of Suffolk group together but a national network of independent LBSs. That network would hold the stock for you and would, most likely, have the buying power of say a Wiggle. Farmers did something similar in selling milk (Arla?).

There's no point in blaming the customers - they won't change.

N0bodyOfTheGoat

Far too many "standards" for various bike components, for example...
Hub widths
Disc spacing for forks and front wheels (RDS and FDS with old/new fatbikes)
Steerer diameter (eg. Giant's Overdrive 1.25")
Freehubs (eg. I cannot simply replace the Sram 10-42 XD cassette with an 11-32, I need to buy a standard freehub body)

First.Aspect

meanredspider wrote:

I'm not suggesting just the LBSs of Suffolk group together but a national network of independent LBSs. That network would hold the stock for you and would, most likely, have the buying power of say a Wiggle. Farmers did something similar in selling milk (Arla?).

There's no point in blaming the customers - they won't change.

Grocers did it. It was called the co-op.

meanredspider

First Aspect wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

I'm not suggesting just the LBSs of Suffolk group together but a national network of independent LBSs. That network would hold the stock for you and would, most likely, have the buying power of say a Wiggle. Farmers did something similar in selling milk (Arla?).

There's no point in blaming the customers - they won't change.

Grocers did it. It was called the co-op.

Yes - I wasn't sure about the co-op but it's a great example as it is doing really well these days and the big supermarkets are realising that small and local is better.

I don't know how big Rutland Cycling is but I've noticed how they seem to have bought up quite a few of the independents in Cambridge. My Inverness LBS is part of Alpine bikes - that gives them enough scale to be able to do things at a reasonable cost and timing.

First.Aspect

The cycleclinic posts are so depressing.

I don't need a single speed. I need gears because I'm in my 40s any my round trip commute has 600+ metres of climbing. So if my bike shop owner tells me I need a single speed, he is not listening. I live in Scotland. I want (not need, but want) discs, because they function better for the use I put them to 9 months of the year.

I've been cycling to get to and from school, university and work for longer than the cycleclinic has been on this earth, I would guess. So, I really DO know best.

For the umpteenth time, I also don't blame my bike shop, because they can do any work I ask of them within between 2-4 days usually. The cyclechip's posts infer that I want them to keep everything in stock. No, that's not the point. Read the thread please.

Inadvertently, however, by reacting to what he thought I said, cycleclinic's posts will probably dismay many of us. And confirm our worst fears.

You probably provide a service that latter day hobbyists want, while they train for the etape. Right now you are probably swamped with such custom. It sound like you don't make much money from it and it irritates you a bit. Mmmm.

I'm a cyclist and have been for 30 years. I commute by bike and have been doing so for 30 years. I don't want to have to wait 3+ weeks for the vehicle I get around on to be fixed. I shouldn't have to wait that long either, since its intentionally made up from bog standard parts including the most common discs on the market.

If you somehow think that I should and it is somehow my own fault because, well that's just how it is, then I am not sure I want to be your customer. If you are telling me that the way around this is to use 19th century technology, "duh", then I certainly don't want to be your customer.

Your attitude is complacent.

You assert that you provide the service "we" want. You don't. You are providing a service for the people who have disposable income and who have just taken up cycling. And if you think its hard making money now, you'd better watch out because we are already past peak cycling.

Think of this. If I have to wait 2+ weeks for parts, and a week or two for service, and even then I'm not really your priority and a bit of a pain because I'm not profitable for you, then what are the odds that when I want my next commuting bike or my next vanity bike, that I will walk into your shop and buy one?

Low, in case you hadn't figured that out.

And this should trouble you, because I'll always own several bikes so I'm precisely the guy you should look after. I'm also a relatively high earner, so when I do buy a new bike, I'll spend exactly the sort of sums that are worth your valuable time. And I am representative of a large cohort of quiet (in person), pissed off, perennial cyclists.

In fact, because your attitude means that I can't rely on your bike shop to provide me with a service that I need (not want), I have tooled up and taught myself. I am also knowledgeable enough to get a bike that fits, which means I can order the exact frame I want from anywhere, without having to pop into my local bike shop to be talked down to by you.

So the truth of it is that you've ensured that I don't NEED the service you WANT to provide me with, when I do splash the cash.

What this means, in case you don't know, is that when cycling ceases to be the new golf, all you will be left with are the people, like me, who cycle year in year out, and who have been pissed off and let down by you in the interim.

shortfall

In response to First Aspect. I have dealt with Malcolm at Cycle Clinic having recently bought a wheelset and tyres from him. His knowledge, expertise and craftsmanship are first class. His customer service even better. I don't read his comments as blaming customers, he's just explaining the obvious difficulty in running a bike shop in the world of the internet and struggling with a poor supply chain. I think the fixed gear example was meant to be humourous.

cycleclinic

I did not blame the customer. I blamed herd buying habbits which is somewhat different to the individual. That is driven buy things like the internet, other technological changes and a buch of other factor beyond indvidual control. These habbits wont change I know that and neither should they change. In fact they cant change as the whole global economy is driven by these things. Mean sprit rider. your idea of a groups buy and a national warehouse sounds just like a distributor to me. They have to make a markup so we will still be getting the parts at the same price as we do now. Warehousing costs money.

If you want to buy parts at OEM pricing a shop has to buy OEM or straight from the factory. There is no other way around it. this is what I do for hubs and some other parts. Oddly enough I make good money on those. The parts I buy from distributors I have to be careful with. I dont stock conti, schwable or other familiar brands of tyres any more as there is no money in them. With a fixed ammount of money you put it where it makes the best return. if that happens to be what the local customer want then great (it is for some of local customers) it is however not what all customers local to me want. Instead I make an online offering for those parts and find a global customer base. Now if I tried to offer what local customers wanted I would struggle as I would have to buy a more diverse range of goods in smaller quantities and make less money. Now how is that going to pay my monthly wage, there simply is not the local trade to support that as there are many local local shops already doing that with varying degrees of success (there are a good few doing quite well).

In fact first aspect you dont understand my business at all. I dont do servicing or have much walk in traffic. I supply parts via my website that other retailers dont do. I build wheels. What I do is fill niches wiggle and other retailers don't therefore I make decent money. If I was irritated by the bike trade I would do something else. My point is shops are the way they are for a good reason. The sucessful LBS's meet the local needs well. Locally there is one shop that has a cafe attached. I am sure it the cafe that makes the shop viable. Another couple shop specialises in high end kit one specifically in pinarello's and puts people up in local B&B's and take them out for test rides on those expensive machines. There is one shop in sudbury that is a traditional LBS and they do quite well because they are the only one. I live of the internet. In Bury there are a couple of shops but that town is big enough to have enough walk in trade to support them, I think only one though has a good rep but they dont have huge stock of parts either, they sell bikes, accessories things that people like to go and touch and see before buying. So within a 20 miles of me there are a number of shops but none and I mean none have every service part.

Now you could argue that if the local shop are not fulfilling your need first aspect then there is possibly a market but you need to ask yourself are there enough people like you to support that kind of business. If the LBS does not support your needs the answer is probably no because what I have noticed is many people like yourself simply do jobs themselves. What needs to be remembered here cycling is a minority past time in the UK. There are not enough of doing it in a particular area to support a diverse range of shops. Most bikes sold are sub £500 which is fine but that means for service shops buy parts for those rather than higher end bits for the few bikes that use them. This is why I do a roaring trade in freehub bodies, miche cassette sprockets and other parts that I can sell for a profit on line that riders or higher end bikes need. So I am not depressed by this. I am simply trying to offer a realistic take on the comments you have made you do however seem quite upset by them and the state of the bike industry as whole. no one here change the market place we have to live and make the most of what there is and find the oppertunities where we can.

Also I think you might have taken what I have said the wrong way I have not been talking down to you. It is great that you know how to size your own bike properly and can buy online. That way you get a better choice. This is the way it is going. I know this and dont sell bikes any more. I cycle year round as well you know but I do it on bike where I know the parts supply is good but I am in a fortunate position to know this. for example I dont use DT Swiss hubs in my own bikes because freehub supply is intermetiant. I buy alot of these of madision but the 11 speed road bodies are sometimes out for a couple of months not much use if yours is worn is it. Why is the supply of these parts not better probably because it does not make economic sense to improve matters that is the driving force for everything. Within that constraints shops will try to offer the best service they can.

Yes my comment about the fixed gear bike was tongue and cheek.

rubertoe

Shortfall is correct .

It is the supply chain that is the issue and like many bike shops, the shop is tied to a supplier and if the supplier cant fulfil the needs of the shop (ergo customer) then the whole system goes tits up.

But like first aspect, many of us, look after and maintain all our bikes ourselves, and we do so because, a) shops cant get the parts or fit you in quick enough and b) we need things down now as we need our bikes not for pleasure but for transport.

meanredspider

thecycleclinic wrote:

I did not blame the customer. I blamed herd buying habbits which is somewhat different to the individual. That is driven buy things like the internet and other technological changes. These habbits wont change I know that and neither should they change. In fact they cant change as the whole global economy is driven by these things. Mean spirt rider. your idea of a groups buy and a national warehouse sounds just like a distributor to me. They have to make a markup so we will still be getting the parts at the same price as we do now. Warehousing costs money.

Well - that's fine - if you and every other independent bike shop in the UK want to stock all the same parts and none of the specific parts, that's great - just don't be surprised when people like me and FirstAspect (and just about everybody else on here) go Wiggle or some other Internet dealer.

Of course warehousing costs money (I've engineered some for a small outfit called Procter & Gamble) but I bet it doesn't cost as much as all of the generic stock that every LBS has. Take Inverness as an example: every bike shop in the Inverness area stocks Shimano cycling shoes - how does that serve the customer? Just try buying anything other than a Shimano cycling shoe in the Inverness area. So I buy Giro or Spesh on-line and nobody sells a single pair of shoes to me. The on-line retailers get rich and so do the couriers (both of whom run warehouses) and the LBSs scrape by.

There are so many parallels with dairy farmers. I often catch Farming Today on the radio and it used to be just one dairy farmer after another bleating on about how little they got paid for their milk. Except the smart ones who worked out how to add value who found they couldn't produce enough milk to meet demand.

Shimano/Madison have the small LBSs by the short-and-curlies. The LBSs need to find a way to reverse that balance of power. Shopkeepers did it through the Co-op. Dairy farmers through Arla. LBSs could do it if they wanted to.

jgsi

The smaller shop didn't even charge me to sort a gear problem out but I popped back with a big box of chocolates.

I think the solution is pay everyone in chocolate over this weekend.
Slowmart is on the button.

Jaysus, who would be in a small business?
Screwed from all sides by the sound of things.

First.Aspect

thecycleclinic wrote:

I did not blame the customer. I blamed herd buying habbits which is somewhat different to the individual. That is driven buy things like the internet, other technological changes and a buch of other factor beyond indvidual control. These habbits wont change I know that and neither should they change. In fact they cant change as the whole global economy is driven by these things. Mean sprit rider. your idea of a groups buy and a national warehouse sounds just like a distributor to me. They have to make a markup so we will still be getting the parts at the same price as we do now. Warehousing costs money.

If you want to buy parts at OEM pricing a shop has to buy OEM or straight from the factory. There is no other way around it. this is what I do for hubs and some other parts. Oddly enough I make good money on those. The parts I buy from distributors I have to be careful with. I dont stock conti, schwable or other familiar brands of tyres any more as there is no money in them. With a fixed ammount of money you put it where it makes the best return. if that happens to be what the local customer want then great (it is for some of local customers) it is however not what all customers local to me want. Instead I make an online offering for those parts and find a global customer base. Now if I tried to offer what local customers wanted I would struggle as I would have to buy a more diverse range of goods in smaller quantities and make less money. Now how is that going to pay my monthly wage, there simply is not the local trade to support that as there are many local local shops already doing that with varying degrees of success (there are a good few doing quite well).

In fact first aspect you dont understand my business at all. I dont do servicing or have much walk in traffic. I supply parts via my website that other retailers dont do. I build wheels. What I do is fill niches wiggle and other retailers don't therefore I make decent money. If I was irritated by the bike trade I would do something else. My point is shops are the way they are for a good reason. The sucessful LBS's meet the local needs well. Locally there is one shop that has a cafe attached. I am sure it the cafe that makes the shop viable. Another couple shop specialises in high end kit one specifically in pinarello's and puts people up in local B&B's and take them out for test rides on those expensive machines. There is one shop in sudbury that is a traditional LBS and they do quite well because they are the only one. I live of the internet. In Bury there are a couple of shops but that town is big enough to have enough walk in trade to support them, I think only one though has a good rep but they dont have huge stock of parts either, they sell bikes, accessories things that people like to go and touch and see before buying. So within a 20 miles of me there are a number of shops but none and I mean none have every service part.

Now you could argue that if the local shop are not fulfilling your need first aspect then there is possibly a market but you need to ask yourself are there enough people like you to support that kind of business. If the LBS does not support your needs the answer is probably no because what I have noticed is many people like yourself simply do jobs themselves. What needs to be remembered here cycling is a minority past time in the UK. There are not enough of doing it in a particular area to support a diverse range of shops. Most bikes sold are sub £500 which is fine but that means for service shops buy parts for those rather than higher end bits for the few bikes that use them. This is why I do a roaring trade in freehub bodies, miche cassette sprockets and other parts that I can sell for a profit on line that riders or higher end bikes need. So I am not depressed by this. I am simply trying to offer a realistic take on the comments you have made you do however seem quite upset by them and the state of the bike industry as whole. no one here change the market place we have to live and make the most of what there is and find the oppertunities where we can.

Also I think you might have taken what I have said the wrong way I have not been talking down to you. It is great that you know how to size your own bike properly and can buy online. That way you get a better choice. This is the way it is going. I know this and dont sell bikes any more. I cycle year round as well you know but I do it on bike where I know the parts supply is good but I am in a fortunate position to know this. for example I dont use DT Swiss hubs in my own bikes because freehub supply is intermetiant. I buy alot of these of madision but the 11 speed road bodies are sometimes out for a couple of months not much use if yours is worn is it. Why is the supply of these parts not better probably because it does not make economic sense to improve matters that is the driving force for everything. Within that constraints shops will try to offer the best service they can.

Yes my comment about the fixed gear bike was tongue and cheek.

You possibly need to assess how you come across, when posting in your company name. Even when responding to me you manage to refer to a herd. I don't recognise that characterisation of my purchasing behaviour, nor would I be enamoured with the vendor who sees me that way.

No I don't know or understand your business, why would I? But you should take note that people like me and MRS couldn't be more squarely in your target demographic and you have not got the slightest idea what we want, even when we've told you. What you seem instead to keep saying is that we have what we deserve, as part of that herd.

Also, I'd question your understanding of MRS's point. A co-operative is not the same as a distributor. Look it up, you might learn something today.

When it comes to servicing, either I don't want it at all, or I need it. If I need it, I'll pay for it. At that stage, I'm not fussed about getting the parts 10% cheaper like I can online. Stop telling me that I am.

The problem I have is that the service I occasionally need no longer exists, no matter how much I'd be willing to pay for it. So, you can't tell whether or not there's a market for it, can you?

The problem for the local bicycle industry, which should have the klaxons blaring, is that the next best option is not for me to put up with things and wait 4 weeks, but to do it myself quickly and cheaper. Slower and cheaper, or quicker but more expensive, is okay. But if my LBS is offering me a slower more expensive service it might as well close now, rather than limp on for a few more years. Surely that should worry you?

The argument that things have to be this way because that's how things are (which is the cyclic argument you have presented) is rather trite, since all it does is re-state the problem.

cycleclinic

I know what co opperative is now who is being patronising. The problem with the coop model like the co op shops all lbs would become the same brand. I cant see it happening as nice as the idea is. I also dont see it making the savings neccessary as the only way the cop op bike shops to get distributor pricing is to buy direct from manufacturers. Stocking a wide range of parts like you sugest msr takes more space than most shops have and will not draw in enough extra custom. That range of kit is available on the web for good reason.

I never said you are all getting what you deserve. I have said there is an economic reality we have to live live. It is cheaper to buy online than in a traditional shop buying through the distribution chain. You also get a world of choice. The products that make me the most money are not ones i buy of distributors (except for one brand that is an exception), but small range of parts i buy direct of the manufacturer. I have thought about goving up the retail shop and focusing instead on wheel building and rim, hub, spoke, hub spares supply (some of which i buy direct) and the few brands i buy direct and distribute. These income streams is the only part of the business that are growing, everything else is stagnant or shrinking. In time that is what i will probably do which gives you a hint as to the problems trying to run a traditional lbs presents, it works in certain areas but not all.

We agree that there is a big problem but trying to offer better service in the tradional lbs model that is trying to do everything is not actually the simple answer it could be. The way around this to change the busines model. In area's with alot of commutors is to set a service only shop and focus on that alone. In the long run i think that what will happen, there will be online retailers and service only workshops. I might try opening one in cambridge. Had the idea for while just need to do it and raise the money to emploh thep staff needed as 4 week wait on service is not ideal.

Most of mine walk in customers do there own work. I sell them the bits with a smile and i am fine with that. In fact my online business is on that model. Supply parts with information for those that do work themselves but i have to be selective about the brands i offer to a get noticed and b make a profit. Having a showroom shop can only really work on a bigger scale to small lbs's a bit like the concept stores. Maybe the bike department stores might evolve but cycling will have to become more than the minority pursuit it still is for that to work.

An anology would be clothing retail. Most clothing is bought through big retailers whether on line or in store. A big store in many towns selling clothes works for clothing as everyone needs clothes not everyone rides a bike and spends money often on them. Look at small independent clothing shops. They do not stock the brands yoj find in the big retailers. They fill niches. This is what the lbs needs to do, rather than compete with the bigger retailers.

So we can agree that the business models opperated by a number of lbs's is not allowing them to thrive. Some still do though so it it is possible. The solutions are more nuanced than simply offering better service. The buisness model has to be right first all to allow the better sevice to be offered. Also the issues facing bike shops face the high street retail sector as whole.

The internet is transformative and it should be embraced so i am glad you both do your own work. It is the way it is going and there is no turning back the clock.

That is my take on it and i am not blaming anyone here for there buying habits. I accept reality how it is and crack on.

First.Aspect

tubby885 wrote:

@FirstAspect - how did you manage before disc brakes?

Are you going to say anything worth reading?

cycleclinic

...

First.Aspect

thecycleclinic wrote:

I know what co opperative is now who is being patronising. The problem with the coop model like the co op shops all lbs would become the same brand. I cant see it happening as nice as the idea is. I also dont see it making the savings neccessary as the only way the cop op bike shops to get distributor pricing is to buy direct from manufacturers. Stocking a wide range of parts like you sugest msr takes more space than most shops have and will not draw in enough extra custom. That range of kit is available on the web for good reason.

I never said you are all getting what you deserve. I have said there is an economic reality we have to live live. It is cheaper to buy online than in a traditional shop buying through the distribution chain. You also get a world of choice. The products that make me the most money are not ones i buy of distributors (except for one brand that is an exception), but small range of parts i buy direct of the manufacturer. I have thought about goving up the retail shop and focusing instead on wheel building and rim, hub, spoke, hub spares supply (some of which i buy direct) and the few brands i buy direct and distribute. These income streams is the only part of the business that are growing, everything else is stagnant or shrinking. In time that is what i will probably do which gives you a hint as to the problems trying to run a traditional lbs presents, it works in certain areas but not all.

We agree that there is a big problem but trying to offer better service in the tradional lbs model that is trying to do everything is not actually the simple answer it could be. The way around this to change the busines model. In area's with alot of commutors is to set a service only shop and focus on that alone. In the long run i think that what will happen, there will be online retailers and service only workshops. I might try opening one in cambridge. Had the idea for while just need to do it and raise the money to emploh thep staff needed as 4 week wait on service is not ideal.

Most of mine walk in customers do there own work. I sell them the bits with a smile and i am fine with that. In fact my online business is on that model. Supply parts with information for those that do work themselves but i have to be selective about the brands i offer to a get noticed and b make a profit. Having a showroom shop can only really work on a bigger scale to small lbs's a bit like the concept stores. Maybe the bike department stores might evolve but cycling will have to become more than the minority pursuit it still is for that to work.

An anology would be clothing retail. Most clothing is bought through big retailers whether on line or in store. A big store in many towns selling clothes works for clothing as everyone needs clothes not everyone rides a bike and spends money often on them. Look at small independent clothing shops. They do not stock the brands yoj find in the big retailers. They fill niches. This is what the lbs needs to do, rather than compete with the bigger retailers.

So we can agree that the business models opperated by a number of lbs's is not allowing them to thrive. Some still do though so it it is possible. The solutions are more nuanced than simply offering better service. The buisness model has to be right first all to allow the better sevice to be offered. Also the issues facing bike shops face the high street retail sector as whole.

The internet is transformative and it should be embraced so i am glad you both do your own work. It is the way it is going and there is no turning back the clock.

That is my take on it and i am not blaming anyone here for there buying habits. I accept reality how it is and crack on.

I'm not sure I agree with your premise that only "big" retailers can compete online. I do a lot of digging around for the bits I want for my vanity/midlife crisis bike(s), and it seems to me that a number of smallish local shops manage to offer parts competitively. The only reason shops like this don't get my custom locally is that "local" from where I live is a 30 mile round trip, and where I work the only places within reach are the big chains.

I also question your assessment as to why some LBSs are thriving. If the pattern is anything like Edinburgh, so many have closed that what you are seeing is a concentration of a dwindling "traditional" customer base.

Where I do agree though is the notion of a service-only type shop. In reality, it would have to offer consumables to passing commuters who want to pick up a brake cable, pads, tyres, tubes and wotnot, but the general idea is what the LBS in question for me has been doing for some time.

But once again, a service only shop would have to get the parts, wouldn't it? And so we are back to the original problem. In my case, they could look at the bike while I wait and have it back to me in a fortnight if I'm lucky.

Unless you fix that conundrum, I would hold fire on opening your new shop.

First.Aspect

thecycleclinic wrote:

If the local shops dont serve your needs do what I did and set up your own.

Again, I'm really struggling with your perspective here. It seems to infer that as a customer I am not entitled to complain about things unless I've tried it myself. Isn't that like the last resort of the football pundit?

I work in a service industry. Like you, I have clients who pay for my time and want a service in return. Some services are more profitable than others. But to get the profitable work you have to sometimes invest in the less profitable and on occasion loss-making work. If we don't, we wouldn't get any of the work and we'd go out of business fairly swiftly.

So, I'm struggling with your view on the bike industry a little, in so far as it appears to suggest that we have what we deserve and/or should be grateful for what we've got.

[ Oh, and fwiw Malcolm, I emailed you for a quote for some wheels last year, which you helpfully provided. ]

cycleclinic

thanks for quoting a post I deleted shortly after writing. On offering services that dont make money to get the services that do that is fine so long the services that dont make money drain all your cash and time and compromise the ability to pay the bills on time and offer services that do make money then they are not worth offering. With this logic I should list on my website 105 5800 groupsets which I could sell for about £10 profit but the money required to buy these is not giving a return. so I am tying up cash that I cant spend on something that can make money. Offering services or goods at cost (which is actually a loss once time is factored in), trust me on this does not mean you get to sell goods that actually make you money and seriously compromises cash flow (been there done that and learnt the lesson) so there is a false logic here. Hence my comment that small shops that fill niches do best. I fill niche I do not try to offer everything, that why my business is growing. for a bigger business the economies of scale become important but few bricks and motar bike shops of that scale. the bigger online retailers are.

Part supply is dependent on stock at distributors. I'll give you another example. Fulcrum RT-013 freehubs for racing sport wheels. I buy these of I-ride 30 at a time. When I get to my last 5 or 10 I phone and order some more. everytime though they are out and I am waiting up to a month for a delivery from Campag. This however is the way it is and there is no solution I cant really afford to buy more and I am not sure I can either I my order often cleans them out. i dont even get a discount on 30 and each one sells for £34.99 when you factor in Post and VAT website and payment fees, returns e.t.c. That leaves a 15% margin at best. Hardly a money spinner. This is the problem here. The business is profitable but not hugely so and that has a knock on effect. If I did not sell them online I would not sell enough to justify holding any in stock which is the situation most shops are in.

So you want a shop that is local (withing 10 miles) that is big enough to hold a vast array of parts and spares in depth so they rarley run out but you also acknowledge the customer base is dwindling for bricks and motar shops. So you want a retailer to try and hold back the tide. You cant defy gravity for long.

With limited floor space and funds shops cannot be all things to all people all of the time. The small shops that work fill a niche they dont try and offer everything. Try look at the problem from behind the counter and the reality looks different. I am not talking down to here but I am on the other side of the counter and see things quite differently.

hambini

I can't believe that I-ride don't give you a discount after you buy 30 hubs. That's ridiculous.

First.Aspect

thecycleclinic wrote:

Part supply is dependent on stock at distributors. I'll give you another example. Fulcrum RT-013 freehubs for racing sport wheels. I buy these of I-ride 30 at a time. When I get to my last 5 or 10 I phone and order some more. everytime though they are out and I am waiting up to a month for a delivery from fulcrum. This however is the way it is and there is no solution I cant really afford to buy more. i dont even get a discount on 30 and each one sells for £34.99 when you factor in Post and VAT website and payment fees, returns e.t.c. That leaves a 15% margin at best. Hardly a money spinner. This is the problem here. The business is profitable but not hugely so and that has a knock on effect. If I did not sell them online I would not sell enough to justify holding any in stock which is the situation most shops are in.

So you want a shop that is local (withing 10 miles) that is big enough to hold a vast array of parts and spares in depth so they rarley run out but you also acknowledge the customer base is dwindling for bricks and motors shops. So you want a retailer to try and hold back the tide. You cant defy gravity for long.

the walk in customer base for shops is dwindling and being concentrated so that is why some shops in the right locations are doing well. Also shops that do well, will have different income streams. One I sell to hires bikes and is in the right place to do it. that therefore good income not reliant on getting the right parts in or selling a £1k bike.

With limited floor space and funds shops cannot be all things to all people all of the time. Try look at the problem from behind the counter and the reality looks different.

Okay, you are now saying back to me things I said pages ago as though I don't understand.

As the customer wanting his bike fixed at the LBS:- Parts prices - not an issue. That an LBS can't hold stock - also not an issue. Total inability to get stock from distributor in a reasonable time frame - huge issue.

I get it, and I do comprehend the commercial reality from behind the counter. In general terms its really not complicated.

Although something like a co-op might improve your margins slightly, it isn't going to solve the problem you have with Fulcrum and I've encountered with Shimano, since the distributor and/or manufacturer operate although they are in a "captive market" sort of environment.

As a customer, it feels a bit like complaining about the service from Calmac Ferries. Their tag line could be, "Sail with Calmac Ferries - how the *uck else are you going to get to Mull?"

First.Aspect

thecycleclinic wrote:

thanks for quoting a post I deleted shortly after writing.

I was replying while you were deleting, I'm sorry. I'm not actually responsible for posting it in the first place though.

I don't want to be rude to you, because actually its good that you are taking the time to participate here. What I would say is that time and again, you think that I have a problem with pricing, but what I'm actually dismayed about is service.

Service and pricing are different issues. It might well be that the price for the service I think should be available would be prohibitive, but I don't think so. What I think is that people would be willing to pay more for more.

Right now, I object to paying what seems a lot to wait the fat end of a month for something that by all rights should take a week at the outside. There is basically no price low enough for that service.

mamba80

i happen to a 100% agre with Cycleclinic, Malcolm is an easy going chap to deal with but he is not a charity and stock holding is dead money, esp for a small business like his.
i learnt a long time ago that Madison and i-ride are terrible.
Recently when my daughter crashed her bike and needed a new shifter, madison had no stock, dealer prices were through the roof, i bought a pr from bike24, sorted, bike was back together before she had her bandages off.

the prob isnt so much with pricing as you say, its with the distributors, all the shimano bits come through shimano.eu in holland, if the german shops can get and hold the parts, then zero reason why the english cant too but ime english companies tend not to be interested in profits, only big profits.

When or if my shimano xt 8000 brakes go faulty, i d not even bother going to a lbs, it would be internet and fit myself. even warranty, the lbs strips down, sends back, wait 3 weeks, yes warranty but we ve no stock.....

unless shimano.eu will supply to a co-operative bike shop chain, then that wont work either, madison are sole distributors, like it or not.

i dont like it anymore than you do but there is jack we can do about it.

dinyull

Malcolm - to pick up something you said earlier:

What is stopping you (or other LBS) buying cheaper parts as an when needed from Wiggle/CRC etc and selling on at a profit?

I'm genuinely interested as there is obviously something in place that doesn't allow it to happen I'm totally unaware of. Or is it as simple as not being able to offer/claim a guarantee if the parts becomes faulty?

imafatman

Want to point out that any decent bike shop is massively busy this time of year. My local one had 20 bikes lined up for servicing and they only have workshop space for 1 bike and 1 engineer.....

Soon as the sun comes out people drag out their bikes and take them down to the bike shop to get serviced and sorted.