To gatecrash a sportive or not?

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Comments

  • StillGoing
    StillGoing Posts: 5,211
    Garry H wrote:
    john1967 wrote:
    This is so sad. Just get a map and work out a route and go for a ride and best of all its free.Its called riding your bike.

    He doesn't need to do that, somebody's already mapped out what's probably a decent route, so he can just use that one. If other people are daft enough to pay to ride on open roads, then more fool them.

    They're not just paying to ride on open roads though are they. There's the support with first aid, marshalls, a broom wagon, signage, feed stations, timing etc. The profits to whatever charity is being supported are negligible and I myself, don't do commercial sportives.
    I ride a bike. Doesn't make me green or a tree hugger. I drive a car too.
  • phil485
    phil485 Posts: 364
    For me the issue is quite clear cut but difficult to quantify.

    Lets assuem its a new forest sportive. There is already a lot of local pressure against these mass rides. After a lot of discussion, sportives are taking place based on strict numbers and lots of caveats.
    If a local rider tags on then so be it but if an extra 100 riders turn up and gatecrash the event then there is a major possibility the event may not happen next year.
    I picked the new forest as i know they have a lot of stress, i appreciate that this particular sportive may not be anywhere like this.

    however

    All sportives need to get agreement from local councils, local police etc. You do not know what the agreements are.

    It may seem harmless but you may be jeopardising future running of the event.
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    Phil485 wrote:

    All sportives need to get agreement from local councils, local police etc. You do not know what the agreements are.

    It may seem harmless but you may be jeopardising future running of the event.
    The agreements are usually there to limit mass start numbers, rather than the total number of riders on the road - which is obviously not within anyone's control.
  • veronese68
    veronese68 Posts: 27,825
    philthy3 wrote:
    They're not just paying to ride on open roads though are they. There's the support with first aid, marshalls, a broom wagon, signage, feed stations, timing etc. The profits to whatever charity is being supported are negligible and I myself, don't do commercial sportives.
    If someone were to turn up and use the facilities without having paid it would be out of order, but if not I don't see a problem as they are public roads. If it's a charity event sticking some money in the pot is only polite.
    Kinesis Pro6
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  • dodgy
    dodgy Posts: 2,890
    Paying to ride in crowds. I'd sooner pay to not ride in crowds.

    Funny old world.
  • arthur_scrimshaw
    arthur_scrimshaw Posts: 2,596
    A year or so back a few female colleagues were riding one of the Diva events and asked me to go along as mechanical support, being a female only event I couldn't enter but nobody challenged me on the ride. I waited outside the feed stops but was supplied with food picked up by my colleagues, I felt really awkward about this so donated the entry fee to one of the collection buckets at the end of the ride. Do what you feel comfortable with.
  • flasher
    flasher Posts: 1,734
    dodgy wrote:
    Paying to ride in crowds. I'd sooner pay to not ride in crowds.

    Funny old world.

    I'm with you, I just don't get the sportive thing at all, a lot of idiots that think its a race.
  • earth
    earth Posts: 934
    Carbonator wrote:

    No I am not, I am just answering the question you asked, you just do not like my answer!
    Seems you have only asked on here to ease your conscience though.

    What do you mean 'you don't really have to' pay?

    Where have I ever said that? No where.
    Carbonator wrote:

    You are planning to take part in an organised event, a charity one at that.

    So I'm going to make a donation.
  • earth
    earth Posts: 934
    philthy3 wrote:
    Garry H wrote:
    john1967 wrote:
    This is so sad. Just get a map and work out a route and go for a ride and best of all its free.Its called riding your bike.

    He doesn't need to do that, somebody's already mapped out what's probably a decent route, so he can just use that one. If other people are daft enough to pay to ride on open roads, then more fool them.

    They're not just paying to ride on open roads though are they. There's the support with first aid, marshalls, a broom wagon, signage, feed stations, timing etc. The profits to whatever charity is being supported are negligible and I myself, don't do commercial sportives.

    None of which I am going to take advantage of because I did not pay for due to leaving it too late. But I can make a donation to the charity so I've decided to do that.
  • timmyotool
    timmyotool Posts: 172
    Carbonator wrote:
    If you happen to be riding the same roads then fine, but if you don't like sportives then just stay away.
    If you plan to crash one, then you obviously like them, so man up and pay up (by entering on time).

    This sums it up nicely for me.
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,212
    Jesus there are some selfish tossers on this forum.

    Let me ask this - would you rock up to a local club run, without being a member, and join their ride? Would you turn up to their local evening 10 and time yourself? Why not? What you are planning is exactly the same - freeloading the organisation and hours' of volunteered work.

    It seems to me that the OP knows fine well that its not the right thing to do, and is looking for some confirmatory bias to the contrary. Mate, there is absolutely no shortage of sportives to choose from these days. Just enter another in a few weeks and don't be a cockwomble and gatecrash this one. If you do, I hope you get some verbal abuse.
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    timmyotool wrote:
    Carbonator wrote:
    If you happen to be riding the same roads then fine, but if you don't like sportives then just stay away.
    If you plan to crash one, then you obviously like them, so man up and pay up (by entering on time).

    This sums it up nicely for me.

    Not really. Riding the same route as a sportive and 'crashing a sportive' are absolutely not the same thing. Riding the same route does not imply that you 'like sportives' either - that's absurd.
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    First Aspect wrote:
    Let me ask this - would you rock up to a local club run, without being a member, and join their ride?

    Strawman 1 - that's not a fair comparison. The comparison would be riding the same route, not joining the ride.
    First Aspect wrote:
    Would you turn up to their local evening 10 and time yourself? Why not? What you are planning is exactly the same - freeloading the organisation and hours' of volunteered work.

    Strawman 2 - again, not a fair comparison. Riding the same route as a 10 is perfectly legitimate, even while the 10 is going on. Nobody cares, because everybody (except you , by the sounds of it) understands that the roads are open. I've ridden past people on evening 10s who are just out for a ride. Pass them in the same way as you would anybody else, at any other time.
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,212
    [*]
    Imposter wrote:
    timmyotool wrote:
    Carbonator wrote:
    If you happen to be riding the same roads then fine, but if you don't like sportives then just stay away.
    If you plan to crash one, then you obviously like them, so man up and pay up (by entering on time).

    This sums it up nicely for me.

    Not really. Riding the same route as a sportive and 'crashing a sportive' are absolutely not the same thing. Riding the same route does not imply that you 'like sportives' either - that's absurd.
    Riding the same route as a sportive at the same time as a sportive, is gatecrashing a sportive. Overlaping a part of a route you happen to be on, is not. Running round a day or so before or after following the signs is not.

    The OP is planning to gatecrash a sportive, unequivocally.
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    First Aspect wrote:
    Riding the same route as a sportive at the same time as a sportive, is gatecrashing a sportive.

    Only if he takes the pi55 at the feedstops, which he said he isn't doing. Otherwise, he's just riding on the open road, just like everyone else. Paying £60 to an event organiser does not give you any privilege on the public road network.
    First Aspect wrote:
    The OP is planning to gatecrash a sportive, unequivocally.

    You can believe that if you want. It's nonsense though.
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,212
    Imposter wrote:
    First Aspect wrote:
    Let me ask this - would you rock up to a local club run, without being a member, and join their ride?

    Strawman 1 - that's not a fair comparison. The comparison would be riding the same route, not joining the ride.
    First Aspect wrote:
    Would you turn up to their local evening 10 and time yourself? Why not? What you are planning is exactly the same - freeloading the organisation and hours' of volunteered work.

    Strawman 2 - again, not a fair comparison. Riding the same route as a 10 is perfectly legitimate, even while the 10 is going on. Nobody cares, because everybody (except you , by the sounds of it) understands that the roads are open. I've ridden past people on evening 10s who are just out for a ride. Pass them in the same way as you would anybody else, at any other time.
    This is nonsense, on the whole. It comes back to the distinction of when you do it, and by how much you intentionally overlap the route. Fine, the club 10 is stretching the analogy a bit because the route is so short.

    In reality, people aren't confrontational and the OP probably won't be noticed, simply because for any one rider he won't appear to be anything other than some local bloke on a bike at the same time. But really, its just a bit of a stinker of a mindset, isn't it? I mean, with this sort of moral compass, what else does he get up to? Parking in parent and child spots? Even wheelsucking on the commute I tell you.
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,212
    Imposter wrote:
    First Aspect wrote:
    Riding the same route as a sportive at the same time as a sportive, is gatecrashing a sportive.

    Only if he takes the pi55 at the feedstops, which he said he isn't doing. Otherwise, he's just riding on the open road, just like everyone else. Paying £60 to an event organiser does not give you any privilege on the public road network.
    First Aspect wrote:
    The OP is planning to gatecrash a sportive, unequivocally.

    You can believe that if you want. It's nonsense though.
    You have actually read the thread title and the original post, right?
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    First Aspect wrote:
    Imposter wrote:
    First Aspect wrote:
    Riding the same route as a sportive at the same time as a sportive, is gatecrashing a sportive.

    Only if he takes the pi55 at the feedstops, which he said he isn't doing. Otherwise, he's just riding on the open road, just like everyone else. Paying £60 to an event organiser does not give you any privilege on the public road network.
    First Aspect wrote:
    The OP is planning to gatecrash a sportive, unequivocally.

    You can believe that if you want. It's nonsense though.
    You have actually read the thread title and the original post, right?

    Yes, obviously. However, the OP is not actually doing that, as has been explained pretty clearly in the ensuing discussion.
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    First Aspect wrote:
    This is nonsense, on the whole.

    Call it nonsense and then concede all my points. Love it :lol:
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,212
    Imposter wrote:
    First Aspect wrote:
    Imposter wrote:
    First Aspect wrote:
    Riding the same route as a sportive at the same time as a sportive, is gatecrashing a sportive.

    Only if he takes the pi55 at the feedstops, which he said he isn't doing. Otherwise, he's just riding on the open road, just like everyone else. Paying £60 to an event organiser does not give you any privilege on the public road network.
    First Aspect wrote:
    The OP is planning to gatecrash a sportive, unequivocally.

    You can believe that if you want. It's nonsense though.
    You have actually read the thread title and the original post, right?

    Yes, obviously. However, the OP is not actually doing that, as has been explained pretty clearly in the ensuing discussion.
    Yes, he's going to give money to charity and help some old people cross a road or something. I completely believe that. Only he missed that bit off until he couldn't get carte blanch approval from the hive mind to just rock up and join the damn thing.

    I think you are only sticking up for him because you do this sort of thing yourself.

    Tell you what, lets find out who's running it and ask them why the numbers are limited, shall we?
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,212
    Imposter wrote:
    First Aspect wrote:
    This is nonsense, on the whole.

    Call it nonsense and then concede all my points. Love it :lol:
    No, you really are talking cobblers I'm afraid. Listen? Hear that? Yes, its cobblers.
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    earth wrote:
    Carbonator wrote:

    No I am not, I am just answering the question you asked, you just do not like my answer!
    Seems you have only asked on here to ease your conscience though.

    What do you mean 'you don't really have to' pay?

    Where have I ever said that? No where.
    Carbonator wrote:

    You are planning to take part in an organised event, a charity one at that.

    So I'm going to make a donation.

    These are your words right?
    First post on page 2:

    "I think you're just trying to play on my conscience now. I'm probably going to do the ride for the enjoyment of riding with a big field and make a donation to the charity even though I don't really have to."

    Oh, when you said No where, did you mean Nowhere, or Know where? 8)

    Sure you are going to make a donation now lol, but boy was it hard work :lol:
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    edited April 2017
    First Aspect wrote:
    I think you are only sticking up for him because you do this sort of thing yourself.

    Not me mate. I prefer to pin a number on my jersey, I don't zip-tie it to the bars. I think I've probably ridden two 'sportives' since 1990 and I paid for both.
    First Aspect wrote:
    Tell you what, lets find out who's running it and ask them why the numbers are limited, shall we?

    If it means that much to you, then feel free.
  • timmyotool
    timmyotool Posts: 172
    Imposter wrote:
    timmyotool wrote:
    Carbonator wrote:
    If you happen to be riding the same roads then fine, but if you don't like sportives then just stay away.
    If you plan to crash one, then you obviously like them, so man up and pay up (by entering on time).

    This sums it up nicely for me.

    Not really. Riding the same route as a sportive and 'crashing a sportive' are absolutely not the same thing. Riding the same route does not imply that you 'like sportives' either - that's absurd.

    It seems pretty clear that if the sportive wasn't on then the rider wouldn't be choosing that route on that day, therefore I think 'crashing a sportive' is a reasonable phrase.
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    timmyotool wrote:
    It seems pretty clear that if the sportive wasn't on then the rider wouldn't be choosing that route on that day, therefore I think 'crashing a sportive' is a reasonable phrase.

    If the roads are open, then anyone is perfectly entitled to ride in any direction they wish. So no, it's not gate-crashing. Unless you're an indignant sportivist and you take your sportives very seriously - in which case it is, obviously.
  • timmyotool
    timmyotool Posts: 172
    Imposter wrote:
    timmyotool wrote:
    It seems pretty clear that if the sportive wasn't on then the rider wouldn't be choosing that route on that day, therefore I think 'crashing a sportive' is a reasonable phrase.

    If the roads are open, then anyone is perfectly entitled to ride in any direction they wish. So no, it's not gate-crashing. Unless you're an indignant sportivist and you take your sportives very seriously - in which case it is, obviously.

    I'm not arguing the legality of it, obviously anyone is perfectly entitled to ride on public roads.

    Would you head down to where a club run meet on a Saturday morning and follow them for the day? You're perfectly entitled to do so, but it doesn't stop you from being a knob if you do.

    To be fair to the OP. If I were a regular "sportivist" and came across someone doing it once, would I care...probably not. If I saw the same person doing it again and again, would I care...yes. Could I do anything about it...no.
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    edited April 2017
    timmyotool wrote:

    It seems pretty clear that if the sportive wasn't on then the rider wouldn't be choosing that route on that day, therefore I think 'crashing a sportive' is a reasonable phrase.

    Its very clear and reasonable to most people yes, especially as its the title of the thread in big bold letters.

    But its........... wait for it............ on open roads, so even though you are clearly a sad-o crashing an event, you have every right to be on the same roads, going in the same direction, at the same time, on the same day, on the same route, for exactly the same distance.

    Key word there is SAD-O :wink:

    Last edited for Imposter by Carbonator on Sat Apr 01, 2017 18:55PM
  • shipley
    shipley Posts: 549
    earth wrote:
    It's on a public road that is not been closed for the event. As long as I don't eat the food at the feed stops then there is technically no reason why I could not ride the same roads at the same time anyway. I just envisage having a kind of dirty feeling if I do this.

    Wow, what a can of worms !!

    Mate, if you use none of the services associated with the sportive (except maybe the gpx file and the signs) there is no harm done.

    Get on with it and enjoy riding on open roads and don't worry about it. If it's fully subscribed then the organisers have their return as they would have liked.
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    Carbonator wrote:
    Key word there is SADO :wink:

    As in 'Sado-Masochist'?
  • timothyw
    timothyw Posts: 2,482
    timmyotool wrote:
    Would you head down to where a club run meet on a Saturday morning and follow them for the day? You're perfectly entitled to do so, but it doesn't stop you from being a knob if you do.

    This analogy doesn't work, as most clubs are happy to welcome prospective new members (or even riders from elsewhere in the country who want to get out for a social ride while visiting).

    If the clubs aren't happy with that, then they probably deserve to be wound up, frankly.

    If the OP wishes to ride the sportive then there's nothing wrong with that, but usage of any facilities beyond publicly open roads is an absolute no no (goes without saying that closed road sportive gatecrashing is the lowest of the low) and he should do so with some awareness of congestion caused by large groups of cyclists on sportives - if cyclist traffic is causing disruption then really he ought take another route for the day.

    Personally I think the OP would be better served by seeking out a friendly local cycling club and supporting that instead.

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