Paul Kimmage interview - Team Sky's charade has been exposed

RichN95.

YorkshireRaw wrote:

In his own mind Kimmage was a TDF contender, if it hadn't been for those pesky drugs cheats. That's why he was in the autobus. Not because he didn't have the same ability as a multiple Olympic champion, of course not....

For all his faults and delusions, I don't think he ever thought that. However, his book Rough Ride, often seen as a drugs expose, has very little about drugs in it. Mostly it's a portrait of the self pity of a man who expected glory and riches on turning pro and instead found hard work, drudgery and anonymity.

Vino'sGhost

quality lets attack the journalist/ message

You guys are in serious damage protection / outrage.

Wiggins could shoot up infront of you and it would be ok because its out of competition and anyway theres no papertrail to confirm what he used.

yorkshireraw

RichN95 wrote:

YorkshireRaw wrote:

In his own mind Kimmage was a TDF contender, if it hadn't been for those pesky drugs cheats. That's why he was in the autobus. Not because he didn't have the same ability as a multiple Olympic champion, of course not....

For all his faults and delusions, I don't think he ever thought that. However, his book Rough Ride, often seen as a drugs expose, has very little about drugs in it. Mostly it's a portrait of the self pity of a man who expected glory and riches on turning pro and instead found hard work, drudgery and anonymity.

Agree with your book review there. Let's not also forget the only 'revelatory' part abotu drugs use in it, is his own use of amphetamines. Albeit with the use of the caveat (that he no doubt scoffs at when other riders use it) that it was only a couple of times, in crits only etc etc.

yorkshireraw

Vino'sGhost wrote:

quality lets attack the journalist/ message

You guys are in serious damage protection / outrage.

Wiggins could shoot up infront of you and it would be ok because its out of competition and anyway theres no papertrail to confirm what he used.

Not at all - I have no clue about whether Wiggins / Sky did anything against the rules. But neither does Kimmage. As has been pointed out he writes (and makes a living from) lots of innuendo, bluster and outrage - but delivers very little actual facts or new info.

There are plenty of very good sports journos out there, but Kimmage isn't one of them.

dish_dash

^ also just writes badly as evidenced by the words he puts on the page, as well more specifically the BOD incident...

k1875

YorkshireRaw wrote:

Vino'sGhost wrote:

quality lets attack the journalist/ message

You guys are in serious damage protection / outrage.

Wiggins could shoot up infront of you and it would be ok because its out of competition and anyway theres no papertrail to confirm what he used.

Not at all - I have no clue about whether Wiggins / Sky did anything against the rules. But neither does Kimmage. As has been pointed out he writes (and makes a living from) lots of innuendo, bluster and outrage - but delivers very little actual facts or new info.

There are plenty of very good sports journos out there, but Kimmage isn't one of them.

If Wiggins did cross lines in 2009, it’s not certain who was involved. He was with Garmin, but being trained outside the team. However it’s interesting to note his big jump that year. It seems logical to ask questions about this big improvement. If it is later shown he broke rules during his career, should Garmin have spotted that?

I have no idea where he got the expertise for that, or if he got expertise from anywhere for that. That would be pure speculation on my part, and I have no grounds for speculation.

Do you have any thoughts on what was in the package delivered to Wiggins in 2011?

My own thought it was Kenacort. Triamcinolone. That is what is what it is for me, that would be my hunch.

The man's a mouth foaming, wittering bell end who apparently can't remember what principle he was standing by 3 minutes previously.

dish_dash

Now here is someone that can write.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/ ... amateurism

Richmond Racer 2

dish_dash wrote:

Now here is someone that can write.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/ ... amateurism

Brutal.

the article don

Such an embittered fellow.

I gave up at:

CyclingTips: There is clearly a lot going on with Sky, and Bradley Wiggins, now. Back in 2010 you were supposed to be embedded with the team at the Tour de France, and then that was rescinded. I believe Bradley Wiggins was the one who had that stopped. Given all that has happened, what are your thoughts on that now?

Paul Kimmage: It’s clear that they weren’t happy with me around the team. I can only take that as a compliment.

yorkshireraw

dish_dash wrote:

Now here is someone that can write.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/ ... amateurism

Indeed - can write both serious and scathingly satirical pieces as required.

David Conn is another good Guardian writer - did some great work on the goings on at Leeds Utd back in the 2000s (to the extent he got banned from the ground by Ken Bates I think) - although pretty much sticks to Football.

yorkshireraw

the article don wrote:

Such an embittered fellow.

I gave up at:

CyclingTips: There is clearly a lot going on with Sky, and Bradley Wiggins, now. Back in 2010 you were supposed to be embedded with the team at the Tour de France, and then that was rescinded. I believe Bradley Wiggins was the one who had that stopped. Given all that has happened, what are your thoughts on that now?

Paul Kimmage: It’s clear that they weren’t happy with me around the team. I can only take that as a compliment.

Sums up his self-awareness really.

narbs

dish_dash wrote:

Now here is someone that can write.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/ ... amateurism

Although neither she nor her sub can tell the difference between kgs and pounds.

EDIT - someone can obviously, as it's been changed since it first went up.

Richmond Racer 2

YorkshireRaw wrote:

dish_dash wrote:

Now here is someone that can write.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/ ... amateurism

Indeed - can write both serious and scathingly satirical pieces as required.

David Conn is another good Guardian writer - did some great work on the goings on at Leeds Utd back in the 2000s (to the extent he got banned from the ground by Ken Bates I think) - although pretty much sticks to Football.

Conn's reportage over the years on Hillsborough and the fight for justice, has been outstanding

smithy21

A frothing at the mouth interview from Kimmage should be just what Sky need to get people back onside.

He just comes across as a very angry and bitter individual.

Wasn't the slightest bit put out that Lawton beat him to the punch. Ok Paul. :roll:

tailwindhome

Is that based on something you have heard, on something sources have told you, or your instincts?

It is my instinct

Do you have any thoughts on what was in the package delivered to Wiggins in 2011?

My own thought it was Kenacort. Triamcinolone. That is what is what it is for me, that would be my hunch.

I appreciate that pointing this out will be characterised as 'shooting the messenger' or a 'personal attack' and somehow used to elevate Kimmage, but in this instance it's clear he has no more insight into what's going on than you or I.

RichN95.

TailWindHome wrote:

Is that based on something you have heard, on something sources have told you, or your instincts?

It is my instinct

Do you have any thoughts on what was in the package delivered to Wiggins in 2011?

My own thought it was Kenacort. Triamcinolone. That is what is what it is for me, that would be my hunch.

I appreciate that pointing this out will be characterised as 'shooting the messenger' or a 'personal attack' and somehow used to elevate Kimmage, but in this instance it's clear he has no more insight into what's going on than you or I.

And his hunch of what was in the package is exactly same as mine was when this first started. What differs is our perception of the magnitude of the offence - for him it's on the scale of Armstrong and for me it's a case of someone not reading the rules properly (rules which have since changed so it would no longer be an offence)

CuthbertC

YorkshireRaw wrote:

pedro118118 wrote:

I read the interview and, once again, there is nothing new. Just Kimmage being Kimmage.......raging against everything. of course he, like everyone, is entitled to their opinion. But what bugs me with him (and others) is the vociferous claims that Sky are 'at it', but he doesn't have the balls to elaborate on what doping practices he thinks (or knows) they are engaging in. He just rages about how Sky are not as white as they said they were. And how its impossible for Wiggins to go from being in the autobus to a Tour winner in a matter of few years...

Which says as much about Kimmage understanding of Wiggins goal-orientated mindset / motivation as it does about Wiggins abilities or otherwise.
In '06, '07 etc Wiggins had a road contract to a) earn a bit of cash and b) get some miles in as a base for the Track. Despite his tendency to re-write history - 'it was always the Giro that captured my imagination' , 'Paris-Roubaix has always been the race for me' etc., he showed v little true interest in achieving a lot on the road, outside of a TDF prologue in his home city. Once he'd retired from the Track, and post the passport coming in as pointed out above which timed quite nicely for him, he found he could do something on the road. And make some decent £££.

In his own mind Kimmage was a TDF contender, if it hadn't been for those pesky drugs cheats. That's why he was in the autobus. Not because he didn't have the same ability as a multiple Olympic champion, of course not....

Other riders who have gone from the autobus to become Grand Tour champions have done so via EPO and/or transfusions, amongst other things. Wiggins is no exception. If he truly was a freakish physiological outlier, such ability would have manifested itself in his pre-2009 road results.

bompington

Just out of interest, Cuthbert, have you ever posted anything on this forum that wasn't accusing someone (preferably from Sky) of doping?

yorkshireraw

CuthbertC wrote:

Other riders who have gone from the autobus to become Grand Tour champions have done so via EPO and/or transfusions, amongst other things. Wiggins is no exception. If he truly was a freakish physiological outlier, such ability would have manifested itself in his pre-2009 road results.

I've no idea whether Wiggins cheated or not. But casually dismissing several Olympic golds on the track, which was Wiggins primary focus & motivation prior to '09, as not being an indicator of a freakish physiology, is being selective to the extreme.

Lanterne_Rogue

Marina Hyde can certainly write, but she's unlikely to top Barney Ronay, who recently described Stuart Broad's batting as "a ragged, scarecrowish delight, whether he’s coming in to thrash wildly from a position of strength, to thrash wildly from a position of weakness or to thrash wildly from a position of parity."

nickice

Kimmage made a good point about risk and reward. If Wiggins did dope, the reward far outweighs the penalties.

I can imagine Kimmage being confrontational (and pretty much insufferable) when it comes to questions about doping so I'm not surprised Sky didn't want him coming along.

rick_chasey

nickice wrote:

Kimmage made a good point about risk and reward. If Wiggins did dope, the reward far outweighs the penalties.
.

That entirely depends on the advantage the drugs he took have.

nickice

Rick Chasey wrote:

nickice wrote:

Kimmage made a good point about risk and reward. If Wiggins did dope, the reward far outweighs the penalties.
.

That entirely depends on the advantage the drugs he took have.

What does it matter? People aren't going to care what he took if it turns out he doped. Worst case scenario (and unlikely) is he loses some of his titles. He still has the cash in the bank.

I'm not one to believe that he took products with marginal effects. If Sky have been doping, they'll have been doing the most they can get away with.

rick_chasey

nickice wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

nickice wrote:

Kimmage made a good point about risk and reward. If Wiggins did dope, the reward far outweighs the penalties.
.

That entirely depends on the advantage the drugs he took have.

What does it matter? .

Think about that one and get back to me.

nickice

Rick Chasey wrote:

nickice wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

nickice wrote:

Kimmage made a good point about risk and reward. If Wiggins did dope, the reward far outweighs the penalties.
.

That entirely depends on the advantage the drugs he took have.

What does it matter? .

Think about that one and get back to me.

Or just read the 2nd part of what I wrote.

rick_chasey

Alright mate - shoot a sh!t load of heroin and let me know how your ride is afterwards - if you can remember/get on your bike.

nickice

Rick Chasey wrote:

Alright mate - shoot a sh!t load of heroin and let me know how your ride is afterwards - if you can remember/get on your bike.

I'd forgotten that getting into a conversation with you inevitably ends in you being a prick.

rick_chasey

salsiccia1

yourpaceormine

The only difference between Kimmage and some of the more acerbic contributors to this forum, is that PK said a lot of what was being suggested (elsewhere) to the Texan face to face. Does that make his opinions any more valid than yours and mine? No. But I do have a little respect for him for being the person who was willing to put his head above the parapet.