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Paul Kimmage interview - Team Sky's charade has been exposed

benws1benws1 Posts: 413
edited June 2017 in Pro race
Interview with Paul Kimmage about Team Sky. He's giving it both barrels.

https://cyclingtips.com/2017/03/intervi ... e-exposed/
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  • Vino'sGhostVino'sGhost Posts: 4,129
    benws1 wrote:
    Interview with Paul Kimmage about Team Sky. He's giving it both barrels.

    https://cyclingtips.com/2017/03/intervi ... e-exposed/

    Excellent article but expect the welsh cheerleader to demand actual proof and to rubbish Kimmage.
  • andypandyp Posts: 8,352
    Can someone explain to me why Wiggins should have his Tour win removed? From what we know, he took a drug, triamcinolone, that is allowed to be used out of competition, out of competition. It can also be used in competition, if the rider has a TUE for it. Wiggins had three TUEs for it. That's cheating how exactly?
  • andypandyp Posts: 8,352
    Kimmage's main gripe seems to be that there was a difference between Sky's PR and the day to day reality. Does he actually know what PR is?
  • andyp wrote:
    Can someone explain to me why Wiggins should have his Tour win removed? From what we know, he took a drug, triamcinolone, that is allowed to be used out of competition, out of competition. It can also be used in competition, if the rider has a TUE for it. Wiggins had three TUEs for it. That's cheating how exactly?

    If, for example it was revealed that the drug wiggins took after the finish of the Dauphane was cortisone by injection, then an anti-doping violation would be opened and there is a chance that he would have the tour win removed.

    That is how it is cheating and that I assume is what UKAD are looking into.

    Bear in mind that Kimmage will have heard plenty that he has not yet put in print. He is likely to let the team keep on digging before revealing everything that he knows, or what he knows others know.
  • andyp wrote:
    Can someone explain to me why Wiggins should have his Tour win removed? From what we know, he took a drug, triamcinolone, that is allowed to be used out of competition, out of competition. It can also be used in competition, if the rider has a TUE for it. Wiggins had three TUEs for it. That's cheating how exactly?

    It's called the no needles policy.
  • Why has a new thread been posted for this? We know have a number of threads on the topic of Sky. Why did the OP start a new one?
  • andypandyp Posts: 8,352
    andyp wrote:
    Can someone explain to me why Wiggins should have his Tour win removed? From what we know, he took a drug, triamcinolone, that is allowed to be used out of competition, out of competition. It can also be used in competition, if the rider has a TUE for it. Wiggins had three TUEs for it. That's cheating how exactly?

    It's called the no needles policy.

    Which was introduced shortly before the 2011 Giro and was very clear that injections that had no medical justification were prohibited. Injections for substances for which there was a medical need were still allowed. Now you can argue all you like about whether Wiggins really needed an injection of triamcinolone, but if a doctor prescribed it based on a medical need then it is within the rules.
  • cq20cq20 Posts: 197
    Why has a new thread been posted for this? We know have a number of threads on the topic of Sky. Why did the OP start a new one?

    To get the headline.
  • cq20 wrote:
    Why has a new thread been posted for this? We know have a number of threads on the topic of Sky. Why did the OP start a new one?

    To get the headline.


    'course....
  • benws1benws1 Posts: 413
    Why has a new thread been posted for this? We know have a number of threads on the topic of Sky. Why did the OP start a new one?

    Sorry, I didn't know which one this needed to go in. I thought it was separate as it is specific to the article.

    From the main page of this sub-forum, I can only see one about Brailsford resigning. Is this in the wrong place?
  • benws1 wrote:
    Why has a new thread been posted for this? We know have a number of threads on the topic of Sky. Why did the OP start a new one?

    Sorry, I didn't know which one this needed to go in. I thought it was separate as it is specific to the article.

    From the main page of this sub-forum, I can only see one about Brailsford resigning. Is this in the wrong place?


    That one and the CMS hearing one, sitting right above (or below) it
  • benws1 wrote:
    Why has a new thread been posted for this? We know have a number of threads on the topic of Sky. Why did the OP start a new one?

    Sorry, I didn't know which one this needed to go in. I thought it was separate as it is specific to the article.

    From the main page of this sub-forum, I can only see one about Brailsford resigning. Is this in the wrong place?


    That one and the CMS hearing one, sitting right above (or below) it

    Otherwise people could start a thread each time a new op ed appears, or a rider tweets
  • dish_dashdish_dash Posts: 4,979
    It's ok. Let's keep this one about Kimmage. I get to roll out my standard complaint - he is the world's worst writer. FFS man just get to the point rather than drifting all over the place...
  • benws1benws1 Posts: 413
    benws1 wrote:
    Why has a new thread been posted for this? We know have a number of threads on the topic of Sky. Why did the OP start a new one?

    Sorry, I didn't know which one this needed to go in. I thought it was separate as it is specific to the article.

    From the main page of this sub-forum, I can only see one about Brailsford resigning. Is this in the wrong place?


    That one and the CMS hearing one, sitting right above (or below) it

    Otherwise people could start a thread each time a new op ed appears, or a rider tweets

    I understand what you are saying, but the CMS one seems to be related to British Cycling. The Brailsford resigning one is about him being asked to resign.

    Oh well. I'm sure the mods can clear this up if it causes issues. :)
  • Dorset_BoyDorset_Boy Posts: 3,352
    This quote from Kimmage leapt out at me: "Anonymous isn’t worth a censored to anybody. "

    So, all these sources aren't worth sh!t, and that's from the Sky hater himself!
  • andyp wrote:
    andyp wrote:
    Can someone explain to me why Wiggins should have his Tour win removed? From what we know, he took a drug, triamcinolone, that is allowed to be used out of competition, out of competition. It can also be used in competition, if the rider has a TUE for it. Wiggins had three TUEs for it. That's cheating how exactly?

    It's called the no needles policy.

    Which was introduced shortly before the 2011 Giro and was very clear that injections that had no medical justification were prohibited. Injections for substances for which there was a medical need were still allowed. Now you can argue all you like about whether Wiggins really needed an injection of triamcinolone, but if a doctor prescribed it based on a medical need then it is within the rules.

    And it had to be reported to the UCI so it can be very easily checked. Sky didn't mention it in their press release did they?
  • salsiccia1salsiccia1 Posts: 3,543
    Please can this thread be merged with one of the others? It's just going to be the same roundabout of shite as those and it's all the same topic.
    It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 24,261
    edited March 2017

    If, for example it was revealed that the drug wiggins took after the finish of the Dauphane was cortisone by injection, then an anti-doping violation would be opened and there is a chance that he would have the tour win removed.

    That is how it is cheating and that I assume is what UKAD are looking into.
    Let's say, for the sake of argument, say that Wiggins did indeed receive a kenalog injection on the Sky bus after the had completed his Dauphine formalities.

    Now, if we consider that
    a) the UCI had already been informed of the team's intention to treat him at some point after the Daphine
    and
    b) he was practically out of competition, if not by the precise letter of the WADA code

    I think it's fair to say that any sanction would not be a long one. A precedent could be found in Simon Yates four month ban earlier this year. I think even if he did take that injection it's very unlikely that he'd lose his Tour win.


    As for Kimmage I find it endlessly amusing that he complains that all his relationships with everyone are terrible but always the other person's fault. He's not big on self-awareness.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • crossedcrossed Posts: 231
    dish_dash wrote:
    It's ok. Let's keep this one about Kimmage. I get to roll out my standard complaint - he is the world's worst writer. FFS man just get to the point rather than drifting all over the place...

    And he also comes across as an annoying censored .
    I'm not sure that SKY didn't want him following them in 2011 or whenever it was due to their alleged doping, I'd imagine that they just didn't want someone as irritating as him hanging around for a full season :D
  • yorkshirerawyorkshireraw Posts: 1,227
    andyp wrote:
    Can someone explain to me why Wiggins should have his Tour win removed? From what we know, he took a drug, triamcinolone, that is allowed to be used out of competition, out of competition. It can also be used in competition, if the rider has a TUE for it. Wiggins had three TUEs for it. That's cheating how exactly?

    If, for example it was revealed that the drug wiggins took after the finish of the Dauphane was cortisone by injection, then an anti-doping violation would be opened and there is a chance that he would have the tour win removed.

    That is how it is cheating and that I assume is what UKAD are looking into.

    Bear in mind that Kimmage will have heard plenty that he has not yet put in print. He is likely to let the team keep on digging before revealing everything that he knows, or what he knows others know.

    Why will Kimmage 'have heard plenty' - he hardly goes to events, doesn't actually have many / any contacts in the sport today, and seems to use twitter as his main source of info / correspondence.

    In 2015 when the Tour was going on, he was miles away elsewhere in France, trying to promote his own project.
  • crossed wrote:
    dish_dash wrote:
    It's ok. Let's keep this one about Kimmage. I get to roll out my standard complaint - he is the world's worst writer. FFS man just get to the point rather than drifting all over the place...

    And he also comes across as an annoying censored .
    I'm not sure that SKY didn't want him following them in 2011 or whenever it was due to their alleged doping, I'd imagine that they just didn't want someone as irritating as him hanging around for a full season :D


    OK. Truth as to what happened in 2010 with Sky and Kimbo - and you can take it from me that this is true (you dont HAVE to take it of course, but you can):

    Early 2010 Brailsford made an offer to Kimbo to accompany the team around that year's Tour, embedded with the team. He accepted. Brailsford then said, look, come to a training camp first so that the riders get a chance to meet you, rather than you just parachuting in for the Tour. Kimbo then strutted around the training camp, interrogating everyone like the Gestapo and putting everyone's back up and being disruptive. Cue complaints to DB, who then told Kimbo that the offer to be embedded with them on the Tour was off cos of this. Kimbo went into a rage at Brailsford, twirling a pseudo moustache and telling him 'I'll make sure you regret this'

    Dramarama
  • carbonclemcarbonclem Posts: 949
    crossed wrote:
    dish_dash wrote:
    It's ok. Let's keep this one about Kimmage. I get to roll out my standard complaint - he is the world's worst writer. FFS man just get to the point rather than drifting all over the place...

    And he also comes across as an annoying censored .
    I'm not sure that SKY didn't want him following them in 2011 or whenever it was due to their alleged doping, I'd imagine that they just didn't want someone as irritating as him hanging around for a full season :D


    OK. Truth as to what happened in 2010 with Sky and Kimbo - and you can take it from me that this is true (you dont HAVE to take it of course, but you can):

    Early 2010 Brailsford made an offer to Kimbo to accompany the team around that year's Tour, embedded with the team. He accepted. Brailsford then said, look, come to a training camp first so that the riders get a chance to meet you, rather than you just parachuting in for the Tour. Kimbo then strutted around the training camp, interrogating everyone like the Gestapo and putting everyone's back up and being disruptive. Cue complaints to DB, who then told Kimbo that the offer to be embedded with them on the Tour was off cos of this. Kimbo went into a rage at Brailsford, twirling a pseudo moustache and telling him 'I'll make sure you regret this'

    Dramarama

    The version of this I recall also included an anecdote that he barged in on a massage that Wiggins was having, or similar, and was told to get the fark out and a bad atmosphere was kicked off straight away. They then decided that the Tour needed so much focus that argy bargy around the place wouldn't be good.

    If you see how PK bears a grudge then it puts everything into some context. Thats not to say he may not have some salient points, but there is a bigger picture. Add on to that the fact that the Sunday Times binned him off and kept Walsh who went off to become superman and Team Sky cheerleader and its clear where his rage comes from :lol:
    2020 Metric Century Challenge Winner
  • yorkshirerawyorkshireraw Posts: 1,227
    And when Kimbo then saw his former mate Walsh getting the gig on the tour with Sky a few years later, he will have taken that as a personal affront to himself, rather than question whether the difference in approach was why he didn't get the access. In Kimbo's world everyone else is wrong and he is always right.

    Walsh is still a twunt as well though, and will be until he does some of the 'doping crusading' that he's built his reputation on, into Rugby. But as many have stated, he wouldn't then get his VIP tickets & hospitality.
  • Alex99Alex99 Posts: 1,407
    andyp wrote:
    Kimmage's main gripe seems to be that there was a difference between Sky's PR and the day to day reality. Does he actually know what PR is?

    I think this is correct. Basically, it's a bit disappointing, but not all that surprising. I'm still not seeing anything earth shattering in this whole saga. Argue that the TUE system needs an on overhaul or some new ethical movement needs to happen, sure.

    People need to rule out the non-conspiratorial reasons. Something else happened in 2008 that would have an influence into 2009 and beyond, that is the blood module in the biological passport. That could cause a change in the playing field, non?
  • crossedcrossed Posts: 231
    crossed wrote:
    dish_dash wrote:
    It's ok. Let's keep this one about Kimmage. I get to roll out my standard complaint - he is the world's worst writer. FFS man just get to the point rather than drifting all over the place...

    And he also comes across as an annoying censored .
    I'm not sure that SKY didn't want him following them in 2011 or whenever it was due to their alleged doping, I'd imagine that they just didn't want someone as irritating as him hanging around for a full season :D


    OK. Truth as to what happened in 2010 with Sky and Kimbo - and you can take it from me that this is true (you dont HAVE to take it of course, but you can):

    Early 2010 Brailsford made an offer to Kimbo to accompany the team around that year's Tour, embedded with the team. He accepted. Brailsford then said, look, come to a training camp first so that the riders get a chance to meet you, rather than you just parachuting in for the Tour. Kimbo then strutted around the training camp, interrogating everyone like the Gestapo and putting everyone's back up and being disruptive. Cue complaints to DB, who then told Kimbo that the offer to be embedded with them on the Tour was off cos of this. Kimbo went into a rage at Brailsford, twirling a pseudo moustache and telling him 'I'll make sure you regret this'

    Dramarama

    That sounds totally believable to me from what I've seen, heard and read of Kimmage!
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 24,261
    crossed wrote:
    That sounds totally believable to me from what I've seen, heard and read of Kimmage!
    I'd love to know what went on between him and Brian O'Driscoll in regard to the latter's book. The joke amongst Irish journalists was that O'Driscoll read the first sixty pages and wondered why he wasn't in it.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • pedro118118pedro118118 Posts: 1,102
    I read the interview and, once again, there is nothing new. Just Kimmage being Kimmage.......raging against everything. of course he, like everyone, is entitled to their opinion. But what bugs me with him (and others) is the vociferous claims that Sky are 'at it', but he doesn't have the balls to elaborate on what doping practices he thinks (or knows) they are engaging in. He just rages about how Sky are not as white as they said they were. And how its impossible for Wiggins to go from being in the autobus to a Tour winner in a matter of few years...
  • RichN95 wrote:
    crossed wrote:
    That sounds totally believable to me from what I've seen, heard and read of Kimmage!
    I'd love to know what went on between him and Brian O'Driscoll in regard to the latter's book. The joke amongst Irish journalists was that O'Driscoll read the first sixty pages and wondered why he wasn't in it.


    Sorry if I'm coming across as a know-it-all this morning, but I know the answer to this one, sir

    Lemme grab a coffee first, then pull up a chair...
  • yorkshirerawyorkshireraw Posts: 1,227
    I read the interview and, once again, there is nothing new. Just Kimmage being Kimmage.......raging against everything. of course he, like everyone, is entitled to their opinion. But what bugs me with him (and others) is the vociferous claims that Sky are 'at it', but he doesn't have the balls to elaborate on what doping practices he thinks (or knows) they are engaging in. He just rages about how Sky are not as white as they said they were. And how its impossible for Wiggins to go from being in the autobus to a Tour winner in a matter of few years...

    Which says as much about Kimmage understanding of Wiggins goal-orientated mindset / motivation as it does about Wiggins abilities or otherwise.
    In '06, '07 etc Wiggins had a road contract to a) earn a bit of cash and b) get some miles in as a base for the Track. Despite his tendency to re-write history - 'it was always the Giro that captured my imagination' , 'Paris-Roubaix has always been the race for me' etc., he showed v little true interest in achieving a lot on the road, outside of a TDF prologue in his home city. Once he'd retired from the Track, and post the passport coming in as pointed out above which timed quite nicely for him, he found he could do something on the road. And make some decent £££.

    In his own mind Kimmage was a TDF contender, if it hadn't been for those pesky drugs cheats. That's why he was in the autobus. Not because he didn't have the same ability as a multiple Olympic champion, of course not....
  • RichN95 wrote:
    crossed wrote:
    That sounds totally believable to me from what I've seen, heard and read of Kimmage!
    I'd love to know what went on between him and Brian O'Driscoll in regard to the latter's book. The joke amongst Irish journalists was that O'Driscoll read the first sixty pages and wondered why he wasn't in it.


    Right. So Kimmage is notorious for missing deadlines - whether its filing on time to whichever newspaper is paying him, or whether its manuscript drafts. Cant meet a deadline to save his life.

    Deadlines missed for draft of first few chapters of the BOD bio. When the publisher finally got something out of him, Mrs BOD, Amy Huberman - a published author as well as an actress - read Kimbo's draft and, er, pointed out to BOD what a piece of censored it was.
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