CMS hearings into the alleged culture of doping and bullying at British Cycling

blazing_saddles

Err scratch that...

bobmcstuff

Jess Varnish: 'I was thrown under the bus by British Cycling' - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/39234548

She's not exactly pulling any punches... at this stage I think BC are screwed regardless of whether it's actually true or not.

RichN95.

bobmcstuff wrote:

Jess Varnish: 'I was thrown under the bus by British Cycling' - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/39234548

She's not exactly pulling any punches... at this stage I think BC are screwed regardless of whether it's actually true or not.

I hope she gets her place back on the squad and gets to show us how good a cyclist she really is - considerably below James, Marchant and probably Williamson.

cruff

RichN95 wrote:

bobmcstuff wrote:

Jess Varnish: 'I was thrown under the bus by British Cycling' - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/39234548

She's not exactly pulling any punches... at this stage I think BC are screwed regardless of whether it's actually true or not.

I hope she gets her place back on the squad and gets to show us how good a cyclist she really is - considerably below James, Marchant and probably Williamson.

This. The sad fact is she just isn't good enough. Her results and times in training prove it. Olympic funding is predicated in results - she didn't get them, so - upsetting as it is for her - she got dropped. I can't understand what all this is about - do people really think that the most successful Olympic programme of all time is just a bunch of people sitting around being nice to each other?

rick_chasey

RichN95 wrote:

bobmcstuff wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

in Italy, for thirty years under the Borgias, they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love, they had five hundred years of democracy and peace – and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock.

You can't actually believe all that kind of BS can you?

If your coach can only train people by straddling the line that defines bullying and not bullying, your coach is pretty one dimensional, and you should look to either teach them how to do it differently, take on better staff who can coach in other ways, or get rid of them.

I found that out very quickly as a 17 year old when trying to coach a women's rowing boat, so if I can work that one out, why can't these high class professionals?

Exactly... I can only assume that the people who believe this have never managed people before (or taking the wee-wee on this particular case ). Takes different things to get the best out of different people.

It's just a quote from a film.

But a certain about of pressure, stress and conflict is preferable to bring the best out of sportsmen and prepared them competition.

You can't honestly think that abusive coaching is the only way to do that?

Then again, it's not like hockey's all that inclusive, so maybe I shouldn't be so surprised :P.

blazing_saddles

RichN95 wrote:

bobmcstuff wrote:

Jess Varnish: 'I was thrown under the bus by British Cycling' - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/39234548

She's not exactly pulling any punches... at this stage I think BC are screwed regardless of whether it's actually true or not.

I hope she gets her place back on the squad and gets to show us how good a cyclist she really is - considerably below James, Marchant and probably Williamson.

Our Becky has chipped in on the leaky subject:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/wales/39229966

This is the one time I would recommend folks try and read between the lines.
Becky and Jess had been close mates for the entire careers.
They are no longer.
Something or somethings major must have happened between them, n'est ce pas?

smithy21

I feel like I am missing something here.

British Cycling have held their hands up to this haven't they?

I mean if you are the one getting the shitty end of the stick you are going to feel hard done by. If there are others that have been treated well their experience will be different.

I may not have been following this closely enough, admittedly.

frisbee

I'm hoping that we sack the whole lot and go back to a single bronze or maybe a silver at the next Olympics.

Its inexcusable that this group of successful coaches and athletes are allowed to push aside also-rans.

People will get the false impression that sport is about winning and pushing yourself and others to achieve.

cruff

frisbee wrote:

I'm hoping that we sack the whole lot and go back to a single bronze or maybe a silver at the next Olympics.

Its inexcusable that this group of successful coaches and athletes are allowed to push aside also-rans.

People will get the false impression that sport is about winning and pushing yourself and others to achieve.

Yeah. It's almost as if those formative years I spent in education in an inner London Leftie Luvvie borough with happy clappy PE teachers telling me that just cos I couldn't trap a bag of cement if you dropped it on my foot didn't mean I couldn't contribute to the football team meant NOTHING...

dabber

frisbee wrote:

I'm hoping that we sack the whole lot and go back to a single bronze or maybe a silver at the next Olympics.

And I can see this as where we are headed if this carries on.... the Daily Hail will then start a campaign attacking the poor results (and will be happy to do so).

sherer

Dabber wrote:

frisbee wrote:

I'm hoping that we sack the whole lot and go back to a single bronze or maybe a silver at the next Olympics.

And I can see this as where we are headed if this carries on.... the Daily Hail will then start a campaign attacking the poor results (and will be happy to do so).

You're assuming their readers will remember. We all know they can't remember past yesterday

iainf72

sherer wrote:

Dabber wrote:

frisbee wrote:

I'm hoping that we sack the whole lot and go back to a single bronze or maybe a silver at the next Olympics.

And I can see this as where we are headed if this carries on.... the Daily Hail will then start a campaign attacking the poor results (and will be happy to do so).

You're assuming their readers will remember. We all know they can't remember past yesterday

They can't remember much beyond 1958 tbh

squired

This whole situation is very sad. Next thing they will have a coaching staff that is 50% male/female. They will work on making it a wonderful place to be rather than a cutthroat top level sporting outfit. As others have suggested we will then stop getting results, funding will be cut and track cycling in England will go back to being irrelevant. The only thing I'm surprised by is that they haven't also been complaining about lack of racial diversity - maybe that will be the next thing.

I'd love some of these people to see the cutthroat world of sports like the NFL. If you want to compete in top level sport that is how it needs to be as far as I'm concerned. At the same time, it isn't just about the numbers that you output. Coaches will have dozens of riders that they look at for funding. For each one they have to make an assessment of their commitment, current ability, potential ability, how well they respond to coaching, etc. Yes sometimes it might mean that there are some top talents who miss out. However, look at football. There you have massive machines in the form of premier league clubs and some players that they either don't identify or give the chop end up showing how good they are. Most of the time though, they are identified and held on to.

rick_chasey

squired wrote:

This whole situation is very sad. Next thing they will have a coaching staff that is 50% male/female. They will work on making it a wonderful place to be rather than a cutthroat top level sporting outfit. As others have suggested we will then stop getting results, funding will be cut and track cycling in England will go back to being irrelevant. The only thing I'm surprised by is that they haven't also been complaining about lack of racial diversity - maybe that will be the next thing.

I'd love some of these people to see the cutthroat world of sports like the NFL. If you want to compete in top level sport that is how it needs to be as far as I'm concerned. At the same time, it isn't just about the numbers that you output. Coaches will have dozens of riders that they look at for funding. For each one they have to make an assessment of their commitment, current ability, potential ability, how well they respond to coaching, etc. Yes sometimes it might mean that there are some top talents who miss out. However, look at football. There you have massive machines in the form of premier league clubs and some players that they either don't identify or give the chop end up showing how good they are. Most of the time though, they are identified and held on to.

You ever coached anyone?

Or just spend a lot of time watching sh!t American sports films?

Lanterne_Rogue

Perfectly possible to create a set-up that's ruthless about performance but not run on a culture of fear. Fear you'll lose your place if you don't perform is okay and healthy, but creating a culture where people are fearful to suggest more senior people do things differently, or to provide honest feedback for fear of being penalised is just dumb. It cuts off new ideas and prevents management seeing, let alone solving, issues lower down.

Any sensible, high-achieving organisation has policies in place to prevent people being able (or perceived to be able) to abuse a position of power. It's not about being fluffy and giving everyone a hug. It's so that when you kick someone's backside and encourage them to do better, they know that it's because the numbers don't add up and not because someone doesn't like them.

Vino'sGhost

There's a gulf between management and leadership.

Vino'sGhost

There's a gulf between management and leadership.

Pross

smithy21 wrote:

I feel like I am missing something here.

British Cycling have held their hands up to this haven't they?

I mean if you are the one getting the sh!tty end of the stick you are going to feel hard done by. If there are others that have been treated well their experience will be different.

I may not have been following this closely enough, admittedly.

It's got the feeling of an organisation almost deciding the only way they will stop people going on about an issue is to admit to wrongdoing even when there wasn't any, take the short term pain but hope that they can then get back to doing what they do.

I've said it before but Varnish was in the system for years with no apparent concerns of bullying and yet when she gets told she's no longer good enough suddenly sexism and bullying are rife.

smithy21

^ sorry but I don't buy that. They are opening themselves up to be sued by Varnish and any others that come out of the woodwork.

Pross

Not really, Varnish will have a hard time proving unfair dismissal when they look at results. Even her own account of what happened has any comments being made after they told her she was out. She's also going to have to defend that she went to the national press criticising BC decisions while still being in the squad which everyone seems to conveniently overlook.

top_bhoy

Pross wrote:

Not really, Varnish will have a hard time proving unfair dismissal when they look at results. Even her own account of what happened has any comments being made after they told her she was out. She's also going to have to defend that she went to the national press criticising BC decisions while still being in the squad which everyone seems to conveniently overlook.

It was recently reported Jess Varnish was awaiting information from BC which had repeatedly been requested by her lawyers. Have BC provided her with this information?

she went to the national press criticising BC decisions while still being in the squad

Is this referring to the comments Jess Varnish made after failing to qualify for Rio and very critical of BC coaches? (noting she was dismissed around 1 week after making those comments). Or are there other ones I am unaware of?

blazing_saddles

Top_Bhoy wrote:

Pross wrote:

Not really, Varnish will have a hard time proving unfair dismissal when they look at results. Even her own account of what happened has any comments being made after they told her she was out. She's also going to have to defend that she went to the national press criticising BC decisions while still being in the squad which everyone seems to conveniently overlook.

It was recently reported Jess Varnish was awaiting information from BC which had repeatedly been requested by her lawyers. Have BC provided her with this information?

she went to the national press criticising BC decisions while still being in the squad

Is this referring to the comments Jess Varnish made after failing to qualify for Rio and very critical of BC coaches? (noting she was dismissed around 1 week after making those comments). Or are there other ones I am unaware of?

You would be amazed by what you and the rest of the press reliant world are unaware of.

Pross

Top_Bhoy wrote:

Is this referring to the comments Jess Varnish made after failing to qualify for Rio and very critical of BC coaches? (noting she was dismissed around 1 week after making those comments). Or are there other ones I am unaware of?

It was the comments she made when the team sprint team failed to qualify criticising selection policy. I actually think some of what she said was fair comment but there's a time and place for giving your view and announcing it to the media isn't it. I suspect if any of us did something similar in our jobs we'd be disciplined and very possibly dismissed for gross misconduct.

RichN95.

Medal winners

RichN95.

Double

DeVlaeminck

Blazing Saddles wrote:

You would be amazed by what you and the rest of the press reliant world are unaware of.

The Illuminati ?

top_bhoy

Blazing Saddles wrote:

You would be amazed by what you and the rest of the press reliant world are unaware of.

That will be 99.9% of the rest of the world then. I'm well aware of the frailties of the press and media but some parts do a good job. You have contributed no facts yet remain critical towards the rest of us for being ignorant of this 'inside information'. In the absence of you providing the information we are unaware of, your uttering's are no more believable than those of the press.

Richmond Racer 2

Top_Bhoy wrote:

Blazing Saddles wrote:

You would be amazed by what you and the rest of the press reliant world are unaware of.

That will be 99.9% of the rest of the world then. I'm well aware of the frailties of the press and media but some parts do a good job. You have contributed no facts yet remain critical towards the rest of us for being ignorant of this 'inside information'. In the absence of you providing the information we are unaware of, your uttering's are no more believable than those of the press.

Not true. Saddles is trying his damndest to keep a promise of confidentiality, when there are facts about the the sainted and oh so wronged Jess which put a different complexion on things.

But you go with the attacks, you, that makes you real strong ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

blazing_saddles

Richmond Racer 2 wrote:

Top_Bhoy wrote:

Blazing Saddles wrote:

You would be amazed by what you and the rest of the press reliant world are unaware of.

That will be 99.9% of the rest of the world then. I'm well aware of the frailties of the press and media but some parts do a good job. You have contributed no facts yet remain critical towards the rest of us for being ignorant of this 'inside information'. In the absence of you providing the information we are unaware of, your uttering's are no more believable than those of the press.

Not true. Saddles is trying his damndest to keep a promise of confidentiality, when there are facts about the the sainted and oh so wronged Jess which put a different complexion on things.

But you go with the attacks, you, that makes you real strong ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I guess it's a case of if you know that I know who I know, you know I know a whole lot more than the press know, or is letting the public know. :P
If you don't then, I'm just another poster.
Not to worry.
I was a bit down last night, not unrelated, but not directly JV.
Frustration much.

nickice

Pross wrote:

Not really, Varnish will have a hard time proving unfair dismissal when they look at results. Even her own account of what happened has any comments being made after they told her she was out. She's also going to have to defend that she went to the national press criticising BC decisions while still being in the squad which everyone seems to conveniently overlook.

Was it not a case of non-renewal? I never did employment law but I'd be surprised if, in this case, it wasn't at the absolute discretion of the management.