Weight/Lightness VS Discs
benterz222
Posts: 14
Hi all.
I'm in the market for a new road bike, and can't decide between going for a bike that's as light as possible but with mechanical gears and brakes. Or to futureproof myself and go for a bike with discs and electronic shifting, yet a couple of kilos heavier.
Would be interested to hear other people's thoughts.
I'm in the market for a new road bike, and can't decide between going for a bike that's as light as possible but with mechanical gears and brakes. Or to futureproof myself and go for a bike with discs and electronic shifting, yet a couple of kilos heavier.
Would be interested to hear other people's thoughts.
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Comments
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Future proofing makes no sense... components will evolve even if you go for discs and rim brakes will not disappear any timer soon.
Get the one you want or the one that fits your needs betterleft the forum March 20230 -
Good advice above but I smell a troll. You can go discs and still build a ridiculously light bike, there won't be 'a couple of kilos' difference...0
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The only way to futureproof a bike is to never actually buy one.
What do you have now ? What do you like or dislike about it ?0 -
HaydenM wrote:Good advice above but I smell a troll. You can go discs and still build a ridiculously light bike, there won't be 'a couple of kilos' difference...
b.1998/Boswell & Percy again..??0 -
Right now i have a Boardman Team Carbon, which I've had for around 3 years. It was my first road bike, and I feel has served me well for long rides as well as commuting. Although, I feel like I'm ready for something a bit sharper, responsive, lighter and more comprehensive.
I've been considering the Giant TCR disc and the Canyon Ultimate CF SLX Disc. Both weigh in at around 7.8kg. Quite keen on electronic shifting, but not convinced on the need for disc brakes.
Test rode a Giant Propel recently, and was astounded at the difference between that and my Boardman in terms of speed, power and general ride. Felt so much nicer.0 -
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Why do you want discs?0
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Surely not everyone with two posts is b.1998?
Anyway, to disc or not to disc. I'd say not, for the time being, because the standard is still evolving, there's still a significant weight penalty (about a kilo to a kilo-and-half all in across frameset, wheelset and braking system - assuming you're being spendy) and well set up rim brakes are more than powerful enough to lock your wheels. Hell, I can lock up both ends of my 1986 ALAN, and that's using Deltas (and Challenge Strada 25c tubs before someone blames the tyres...)
Eventually I suspect disc will become the only option, but I'd say there's another 3-5 years of evolution needed yet, once the pro peloton adopt them, before they're the obvious choice for a road bike.
On the other hand, if you're slack at maintenance and cleaning, not bothered about half-a-kilo of weight (that's the penalty at the not-spendy end) or lack confidence in your braking technique, I'd go disc and stop worrying.0 -
trek_dan wrote:Why do you want discs?
Only because they're obviously becoming a 'thing' for a reason, and having ridden MTB's with discs for years, I know that you can achieve greater feel, control and reliability on large/wet descents with discs. Having said that, I've never had any MAJOR issues with my Shimano 105 brakes. They're a bit ropey on large descents, but nothing dangerous.0 -
964Cup wrote:Surely not everyone with two posts is b.1998?
Anyway, to disc or not to disc. I'd say not, for the time being, because the standard is still evolving, there's still a significant weight penalty (about a kilo to a kilo-and-half all in across frameset, wheelset and braking system - assuming you're being spendy) and well set up rim brakes are more than powerful enough to lock your wheels. Hell, I can lock up both ends of my 1986 ALAN, and that's using Deltas (and Challenge Strada 25c tubs before someone blames the tyres...)
Eventually I suspect disc will become the only option, but I'd say there's another 3-5 years of evolution needed yet, once the pro peloton adopt them, before they're the obvious choice for a road bike.
On the other hand, if you're slack at maintenance and cleaning, not bothered about half-a-kilo of weight (that's the penalty at the not-spendy end) or lack confidence in your braking technique, I'd go disc and stop worrying.
I have no idea what this b. 1998 thing means!?
Thanks for the reply. I agree with your points and feel there will be more development of discs to come, with new versions coming out every year.
I'm pretty strict with cleaning/maintenance, although not HUGELY bothered about an extra kilo of weight.0 -
If you only ride on fine dry days it doesn't matter, if you ride in all weathers go disc. Unless you go for something really weird, like the Specialized with strange rear hub, the current standards will still be available for a good while whichever one you go for.0
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If you weigh above 72kg's, go disc (unless you live in East Anglia).
< 72kg's, calipers.
I'm putting on my helmet and i'm preparing to duck and run, don't worry.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
Up to you then - you like discs. I've never had them and am happy with rim brakes - so I can't see myself changing any time soon.0
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benterz222 wrote:I have no idea what this b. 1998 thing means!?
He is a never ending troll with multiple usernames asking questions that he knows will get people's knickers in a twist, they might start off reasonably ok then after a few more posts it's obvious he's trolling but people can't help themselves and it descends into madness rapidly. For some reason it seemed like your first post was worded deliberately to start one of many hundred debates about disc brakes on here, apologies!
I personally wouldn't go for discs specifically over rim unless they are hydraulic, and then I would look more carefully about the rest of the spec/weight. One of my bikes has mechanical discs, they are fine but not really an improvement. If you were just deciding between a TCR disc and a Propel I'd say there are much more important things to consider between the two than disc/no disc. I think I'm right in saying you'd have to decide if you wan't aero or not. Those Propels do look lovely in the flesh which is far more important than discs after all
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HaydenM wrote:benterz222 wrote:I have no idea what this b. 1998 thing means!?
He is a never ending troll with multiple usernames asking questions that he knows will get people's knickers in a twist, they might start off reasonably ok then after a few more posts it's obvious he's trolling but people can't help themselves and it descends into madness rapidly. For some reason it seemed like your first post was worded deliberately to start one of many hundred debates about disc brakes on here, apologies!
I personally wouldn't go for discs specifically over rim unless they are hydraulic, and then I would look more carefully about the rest of the spec/weight. One of my bikes has mechanical discs, they are fine but not really an improvement. If you were just deciding between a TCR disc and a Propel I'd say there are much more important things to consider between the two than disc/no disc. I think I'm right in saying you'd have to decide if you wan't aero or not. Those Propels do look lovely in the flesh which is far more important than discs after all
Ah right ok, thanks for clearing that up. It's a sorry state of affairs when you can't even post a genuine question on a bike forum without people assuming you're "trolling"... :?
Anyway, I agree the Propel's look great, and that's something I'm aware of - as who doesn't want their kit to look good when you're dropping big money on it.
But there are other 'annoyances' with the Propel I've heard about, plus it seems they may bring a new one out later this year (source: Giant employees).
I like the idea of discs, just not sure how essential they are on a road bike. If the bike weighed the same with discs, I'd go for them... it's just the weight thing. If I'm spending a lot of money on a road bike, I want it to be as light as possible.0 -
If you have any intention of road racing in the forseeable future, then go caliper. If not, then you may as well go disc.0
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Imposter wrote:If you have any intention of road racing in the forseeable future, then go caliper. If not, then you may as well go disc.
Although I'd ben keen to try it out, I don't think I will be. Why aren't discs allowed for competition?0 -
Pinno wrote:If you weigh above 72kg's, go disc (unless you live in East Anglia).
< 72kg's, calipers.
Sage advice. 'Orses for courses.
I weigh less than 65kg, live in East Anglia, and because all my riding is for leisure and on quiet country roads, I hardly ever brake. When I do, I'm perfectly happy with rim brakes. I like their simplicity. I'm not worried about weight.
If I was buying a new bike tomorrow I'd want a decent frame and wheels, and a middle of the range mechanical groupset with rim brakes.
If I was a big bloke doing lots of hard braking or start stop commuting in the wet I'd probably want discs.0 -
benterz222 wrote:
Although I'd ben keen to try it out, I don't think I will be. Why aren't discs allowed for competition?
They almost certainly will be, once safety concerns are addressed and standards are agreed...and once the UCI and NGBs come up with some kind of roll-out plan...0 -
I'm 79kg and have done multiple Alps trips on calipers, several of them wet. Rim brakes with alloy or (better) Exalith rims are all you really need. Obviously carbon clinchers with rim brakes aren't ideal for big descents, and carbon rims in general can be a bit sketchy in the wet, but otherwise it's really not a big deal. Discs make a lot of sense for off-road riding (and I have them on my cross bike and MTB) because a) you're on the brakes all the time, and discs are easier to modulate at 0.5kph, b) your rims get utterly filthy and would wear very quickly if used as a braking surface and c) it's much more likely that you'll knock a rim out of true - which doesn't matter at all with disc, and very much does with caliper.
On the road none of these is the case, and so rim brakes are fine. I will also say that I have yet to find a disc system with properly adjustable lever feel - I like "Porsche" brakes, in other words almost no lever travel before there is a braking effect, and disc systems always seem to have a lot of dead travel (and are much harder to adjust in this regard).0 -
964Cup wrote:...it's much more likely that you'll knock a rim out of true - which doesn't matter at all with disc, and very much does with caliper.
Just picking up on that point (and don't get me wrong), I always set the calipers up so that they pinch the rims simultaneously. Never had a wheel out of true due to braking.964Cup wrote:On the road none of these is the case, and so rim brakes are fine. I will also say that I have yet to find a disc system with properly adjustable lever feel - I like "Porsche" brakes, in other words almost no lever travel before there is a braking effect, and disc systems always seem to have a lot of dead travel (and are much harder to adjust in this regard).
This man ^ has both experience of Alpine descents and both types of brakes, this is sound wisdom. However, you may be a confident, experienced descender whilst there are others who will be tapping and feathering constantly or over braking. Discs may compensate for a lack of bike handling skills? I don't know 'cos I have never ridden a bike with discs and I am a fairly confident descender.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
Pinno wrote:
Rumbled! OK, usually I do! - The perils of life on a forum...0 -
I think you misunderstood me - what I meant was that if you're riding off-road (properly, I mean, with jumps and tree-roots and so on) you will quite often knock a wheel out of true, or break a spoke. With rim brakes, an out-of-true wheel can mean a cab-ride; with discs it usually just means a slightly wobbly bike ride.Pinno wrote:964Cup wrote:...it's much more likely that you'll knock a rim out of true - which doesn't matter at all with disc, and very much does with caliper.
Just picking up on that point (and don't get me wrong), I always set the calipers up so that they pinch the rims simultaneously. Never had a wheel out of true due to braking.0 -
You may not need discs for the majority of your riding, but in the right conditions they're the best thing ever. I used my first disc road bike in the Alps last year, descending Alp Du Huez on disc brakes is a revelation. Overtook about 9 or 10 guys on calipers. The confidence they inspire is worth every extra penny and KG over normal brakes.
For the record, I also have a traditional road bike with Ultegra calipers. I wouldn't hesitate to take this down a French mountain, in fact I did in 2015 down the Tourmalet, however it wasn't nearly the fun I had last year.
For riding in this country, there are only a handful of hills that you could get the most out of disc brakes, however they can be an advantage on any descent, especially in the wet.
Just my two cents from a user of both.0 -
Hydraulic disk brakes are just so much nicer to brake with. Zero maintenance, no rubbing or adjustment, no horrible grinding paste in the winter, much better wet performance.
But the coaster brake on my first BMX was absolutely fine, so I would get one of those.0 -
Go with disc brakes if you ride in the wet alot and have a habit of wearing out rims.
Disc brake standard has evolved by the way. Flat mount is here to stay and so is quick relase or 100x12mm or 100x15mm for the front and a end cap change deal with that quickly. For rear the q/r and 142x12mm is hear to stay and again end cap axle changes swap between those easily enough.
While 964cup may like brakes with no dead travel like porchase i find such brakes have poor modulation and either pull your face off or your not braking. The shimano r785 is the other extreme where there is a lot of lever travel but this is because an mtb caliper has been used with a long lever blade. The result is alot of lever travel before lock but in that travel you have an increasing ammount of braking till you get lock. I'd rather have the latter than have no dead travel which also means lower mechanical leverage i.e tiny lever movement equals lots of pad movement and low braking torque per N of lever force applied. The reverse of hydraulic disc brakes which means more lever travel and less pad movement but the braking torque applied is much higher. But because you have better control of braking torque applied. I prefer the latter.
Also if the alpine decents you do where in the rain then rim brakes would be lacking.
I ride rim brake bikes alot in the wet and dry and in the wet i am more cautious with rim brakes and if in a group i am very cautious indeed.http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.0 -
Mike wrote:You may not need discs for the majority of your riding, but in the right conditions they're the best thing ever. I used my first disc road bike in the Alps last year, descending Alp Du Huez on disc brakes is a revelation. Overtook about 9 or 10 guys on calipers. The confidence they inspire is worth every extra penny and KG over normal brakes.
For the record, I also have a traditional road bike with Ultegra calipers. I wouldn't hesitate to take this down a French mountain, in fact I did in 2015 down the Tourmalet, however it wasn't nearly the fun I had last year.
For riding in this country, there are only a handful of hills that you could get the most out of disc brakes, however they can be an advantage on any descent, especially in the wet.
Just my two cents from a user of both.
My experience is similarleft the forum March 20230 -
964Cup wrote:
I think you misunderstood me - what I meant was that if you're riding off-road (properly, I mean, with jumps and tree-roots and so on) you will quite often knock a wheel out of true, or break a spoke. With rim brakes, an out-of-true wheel can mean a cab-ride; with discs it usually just means a slightly wobbly bike ride.Pinno wrote:964Cup wrote:...it's much more likely that you'll knock a rim out of true - which doesn't matter at all with disc, and very much does with caliper.
Just picking up on that point (and don't get me wrong), I always set the calipers up so that they pinch the rims simultaneously. Never had a wheel out of true due to braking.
'Off road' ?! Wrong forum.
seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
i'm i the only one who finds absolutely no problems with rims on any descent in the dry and a challenge to be overcome in the wet?
i mean, in the wet, its not stopping/slowing down i ever worry about, its those skinny tires running out of grip on polished tar, thats the only concern.
Now uk shitty wet roads? discs because of the rim wear.0
