Froome the hypocrite

r0bh

Pross wrote:

Surely the hypocrisy of Froome is going in front of the media the other day letting everyone know how he turned a TUE down, which he may as well have signed off with 'unlike Wiggins', yet he used a TUE himself in 2014. If he is opposed to using one on moral grounds surely he should have turned it down on that occasion too? Now, I don't doubt that the TUE was perfectly legitimate and necessary but who is he to imply that other riders using them aren't just as legitimate? Also, who knows if he would have turned down that TUE had he not already had a fairly unassailable lead?

"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others."

Pross

thchris1958 wrote:

Pross wrote:

Surely the hypocrisy of Froome is going in front of the media the other day letting everyone know how he turned a TUE down, which he may as well have signed off with 'unlike Wiggins', yet he used a TUE himself in 2014. If he is opposed to using one on moral grounds surely he should have turned it down on that occasion too? Now, I don't doubt that the TUE was perfectly legitimate and necessary but who is he to imply that other riders using them aren't just as legitimate? Also, who knows if he would have turned down that TUE had he not already had a fairly unassailable lead?

But this was not new, he has already spoken about it in 2015.

Not sure what you're saying. I know he had said he used a TUE previously but he then decided to make a big media thing of how he'd turned one down on moral grounds which, to me at least, looks like a dig at Wiggins for using one. Why didn't he consider it immoral the time he used one? It was after Wiggins last had one too. The interview I saw may have been edited but had I been interviewing him that would have been my response 'at what point did you change your opinion on using a TUE, why and if you were in the same position as you were back in 2014 would you use the TUE or not?'

joelsim

Pross wrote:

thchris1958 wrote:

Pross wrote:

Surely the hypocrisy of Froome is going in front of the media the other day letting everyone know how he turned a TUE down, which he may as well have signed off with 'unlike Wiggins', yet he used a TUE himself in 2014. If he is opposed to using one on moral grounds surely he should have turned it down on that occasion too? Now, I don't doubt that the TUE was perfectly legitimate and necessary but who is he to imply that other riders using them aren't just as legitimate? Also, who knows if he would have turned down that TUE had he not already had a fairly unassailable lead?

But this was not new, he has already spoken about it in 2015.

Not sure what you're saying. I know he had said he used a TUE previously but he then decided to make a big media thing of how he'd turned one down on moral grounds which, to me at least, looks like a dig at Wiggins for using one. Why didn't he consider it immoral the time he used one? It was after Wiggins last had one too. The interview I saw may have been edited but had I been interviewing him that would have been my response 'at what point did you change your opinion on using a TUE, why and if you were in the same position as you were back in 2014 would you use the TUE or not?'

It was reported in 2015 that Froome had turned down a TUE at the Tour. And if you watch an interview with him towards the end of that Tour he sounds like he had a bad chest infection.

With respect it looks to me like Froome's TUEs were for illness rather than preventative on 3 occasions.

Pross

But where is the boundary between preventative and treatment? As you say he appeared ill in week 3 of 2015 so surely that TUE would have been treatment. Also, as a rhetorical question, would he have taken that same 'moral' position had he been leading by 10 seconds at the time? I respect him for making the decision but I'm not convinced he can claim the moral high ground when he appears to just have his own definition of when using a TUE is moral. One thing I would say though is he has better PR people than Wiggins or Sky though I'm not sure that's necessarily a good thing.

joelsim

Pross wrote:

But where is the boundary between preventative and treatment? As you say he appeared ill in week 3 of 2015 so surely that TUE would have been treatment. Also, as a rhetorical question, would he have taken that same 'moral' position had he been leading by 10 seconds at the time? I respect him for making the decision but I'm not convinced he can claim the moral high ground when he appears to just have his own definition of when using a TUE is moral. One thing I would say though is he has better PR people than Wiggins or Sky though I'm not sure that's necessarily a good thing.

In my view a TUE should only be taken if actually ill. I'm a big fan of Wiggo but this has left a bit of a sour taste. I can also see from Froome's perspective why he wouldn't want to be linked to preventative TUEs.

wombly_knees

Richmond Racer 2 wrote:

Richmond Racer 2 wrote:

Poor the Fenton

Kennaugh would quite like to have allowed to keep the leader's jersey and win the Sun Tour last year. And Porte could have had a Dauphine on his palmares by now.

But. Well.

I realise that it may not have been the best from a teammate pov, but for such a historic race, having a winner of Froome's calibre has given it a massive boost over a Kennaugh or Howson winning it, especially given the race's recent troubles. Chaves and Froome this year. Yates next? Hopefully carves out a niche for itself over yet another vanilla early season Spanish race.

rick_chasey

Richmond Racer 2 wrote:

Richmond Racer 2 wrote:

Poor the Fenton

Kennaugh would quite like to have allowed to keep the leader's jersey and win the Sun Tour last year. And Porte could have had a Dauphine on his palmares by now.

But. Well.

Should have ridden a bit faster than him then.

rick_chasey

If I'm gonna avoid being hypocritical on this issue, if I thought Froome should have made a race of the 2012 Tour, then his team mates should be aiming to beat everyone, Froome included, if they want to win a race.

If you're not the strongest on the team I have little sympathy. If that bugs you, you can always go to another team, right? And if they pay you less, then you weigh up the cost.

But don't moan about not being handed victories.

r0bh

Pross wrote:

The interview I saw may have been edited but had I been interviewing him that would have been my response 'at what point did you change your opinion on using a TUE, why and if you were in the same position as you were back in 2014 would you use the TUE or not?'

And also ask him if he will go on record that he will never apply for a TUE during a race in the future.

CuthbertC

Rick Chasey wrote:

Do any of you remember Ricco, flying up the Aspin ?

https://youtu.be/34AY5epnluw

Go to 2:30 in.

That's when it matters. When it ruins your race as a viewer.

It was a joke.

I can't see Froome's or Wiggin's tue doing that.

[img]http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view4/4792868/chrİs-froome-o.gif[/img]

rick_chasey

CuthbertC wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Do any of you remember Ricco, flying up the Aspin ?

https://youtu.be/34AY5epnluw

Go to 2:30 in.

That's when it matters. When it ruins your race as a viewer.

It was a joke.

I can't see Froome's or Wiggin's tue doing that.

[img]http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view4/4792868/chrİs-froome-o.gif[/img]

You think Froome can attack like that because he has a TUE?

Be honest.

inseine

Rick Chasey wrote:

CuthbertC wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Do any of you remember Ricco, flying up the Aspin ?

https://youtu.be/34AY5epnluw

Go to 2:30 in.

That's when it matters. When it ruins your race as a viewer.

It was a joke.

I can't see Froome's or Wiggin's tue doing that.

[img]http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view4/4792868/chrİs-froome-o.gif[/img]

You think Froome can attack like that because he has a TUE?

Be honest.

No, I think he thinks Froome is on something a bit stronger, but i might be wrong.

joelsim

inseine wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

CuthbertC wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Do any of you remember Ricco, flying up the Aspin ?

https://youtu.be/34AY5epnluw

Go to 2:30 in.

That's when it matters. When it ruins your race as a viewer.

It was a joke.

I can't see Froome's or Wiggin's tue doing that.

[img]http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view4/4792868/chrİs-froome-o.gif[/img]

You think Froome can attack like that because he has a TUE?

Be honest.

No, I think he thinks Froome is on something a bit stronger, but i might be wrong.

Well, there hasn't been a sniff of anything untoward so far, so it's a pointless argument currently.

blazing_saddles

inseine wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

CuthbertC wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Do any of you remember Ricco, flying up the Aspin ?

https://youtu.be/34AY5epnluw

Go to 2:30 in.

That's when it matters. When it ruins your race as a viewer.

It was a joke.

I can't see Froome's or Wiggin's tue doing that.

[img]http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view4/4792868/chrİs-froome-o.gif[/img]

You think Froome can attack like that because he has a TUE?

Be honest.

No, I think he thinks Froome is on something a bit stronger, but i might be wrong.

He is alluding to Sky's wonder drug that they get UCI protection for.
Somehow, they lost it (must have put it in the wrong jiffy bag) for 2014, which was why Froome had to resort to the tried and tested TUE medication method.

bobmcstuff

Least Froome had the decency to make it look hard (although to be fair he always looks like that!) - not really comparable to Ricco sprinting up a hill like it's flat...

OT Froome is quite shrewd - he clearly knew the TUEs would get out at some point and he's already under enough pressure on doping without another couple of TUEs on the list. Whereas Wiggins seems to have naively assumed they would stay private...

cruff

That's hardly reminiscent of Ricco on the Aspin is it? He looked like he was attacking on a descent, or on a Ducati. I'd forgotten how ridiculous that attack was until I watched the YouTube vid again. Seems quite a while ago already but wasn't even ten years. Remember when racing was that ridiculous? You couldn't really enjoy it because at any time some bug-eyed loon could come firing past everyone else like they were overtaking a MAMIL sportive on a Sunday morning...

RichN95.

Ricco's attack was out of the blue - he just decided to take off and that was that. The Froome clip comes after a period of concerted pressure applied by Sky, particularly by Porte, to ride at a strategy precisely suited to Froome. A year later at the Vuelta, Contador followed similar attacks which didn't have the same set up.

yorkshireraw

zebulebu wrote:

That's hardly reminiscent of Ricco on the Aspin is it? He looked like he was attacking on a descent, or on a Ducati. I'd forgotten how ridiculous that attack was until I watched the YouTube vid again. Seems quite a while ago already but wasn't even ten years. Remember when racing was that ridiculous? You couldn't really enjoy it because at any time some bug-eyed loon could come firing past everyone else like they were overtaking a MAMIL sportive on a Sunday morning...

You're assuming Cuthbert et al were watching cycling prior to 2012.... that Ricco attack always came to mind when I heard of his subsequent issues. Bonkers all round.

Anyway, on Froome I think you undermine any claim on moral behaviour when you have your cosy chat with the BBC from your balcony in Monaco. Especially when you do the vast majority of your training on French or Spanish (Majorca / Canaries anyway) roads.

jimmythecuckoo

CuthbertC wrote:

[img]http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view4/4792868/chrİs-froome-o.gif[/img]

Is this not more about the mechanical doping element nowadays?

That guy who's name escapes me but is coming out with more revelations is quoted as saying that the motors work much better at a higher cadence.

rick_chasey

YorkshireRaw wrote:

zebulebu wrote:

That's hardly reminiscent of Ricco on the Aspin is it? He looked like he was attacking on a descent, or on a Ducati. I'd forgotten how ridiculous that attack was until I watched the YouTube vid again. Seems quite a while ago already but wasn't even ten years. Remember when racing was that ridiculous? You couldn't really enjoy it because at any time some bug-eyed loon could come firing past everyone else like they were overtaking a MAMIL sportive on a Sunday morning...

You're assuming Cuthbert et al were watching cycling prior to 2012.... that Ricco attack always came to mind when I heard of his subsequent issues. Bonkers all round.

It stuck in my craw particularly as a year later I too tried to climb the Aspin in the style of Pantani, complete with replica jersey. I even ride the last KM out the saddle in the drops. I would have been faster walking, however, and on the peyresourde an bit later I actually got overtaken by a guy on a BMX. (in fairness, we all did, and we weren't slow - sub 12hr ironmen some of them, but still).

Hinaultscrapcousin

iainf72 wrote:

I'd forgotten how ridiculous Ricco was....

Ridiculous?! Surely everyone can sprint up Aspin on the drops?!!?

bikes`n`guns

Boring boring boring dull.

Richmond Racer 2

jimmythecuckoo wrote:

CuthbertC wrote:

[img]http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view4/4792868/chrİs-froome-o.gif[/img]

Is this not more about the mechanical doping element nowadays?

That guy who's name escapes me but is coming out with more revelations is quoted as saying that the motors work much better at a higher cadence.

According to shizz going around, the expose coming up on Stade 2 soon are supposed to refer to pre-2010 shenanigans (mind you, Stade 2 aren't exactly reliable)

Alex99

jimmythecuckoo wrote:

CuthbertC wrote:

[img]http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view4/4792868/chrİs-froome-o.gif[/img]

Is this not more about the mechanical doping element nowadays?

That guy who's name escapes me but is coming out with more revelations is quoted as saying that the motors work much better at a higher cadence.

OMG, I've been so blind

dish_dash

I thought the latest expose was going to be on 60 minutes... the rumours suggest that the Hungarian will implicate Armstrong...

RichN95.

dish_dash wrote:

I thought the latest expose was going to be on 60 minutes... the rumours suggest that the Hungarian will implicate Armstrong...

I still think Istvan Varjas is the Konrad Kujau of cycling (there's some googling for you)

But there's another huge thread about all that.

CuthbertC

bobmcstuff wrote:

Least Froome had the decency to make it look hard (although to be fair he always looks like that!) - not really comparable to Ricco sprinting up a hill like it's flat...

OT Froome is quite shrewd - he clearly knew the TUEs would get out at some point and he's already under enough pressure on doping without another couple of TUEs on the list. Whereas Wiggins seems to have naively assumed they would stay private...

salsiccia1

Desperate stuff

Richmond Racer 2

dish_dash wrote:

I thought the latest expose was going to be on 60 minutes... the rumours suggest that the Hungarian will implicate Armstrong...

My bad

I always was a rubbish Stadestician

Richmond Racer 2

Salsiccia1 wrote:

Desperate stuff

I tink so too