Canyon Ultimate - Rim Breaks VS Disc breaks

gnave

Imposter wrote:

gnave wrote:

TBH, My thought process was more like. carbon rims + caliper breaks + British weather = New rims every 18 months.

B-R-A-K-E-S, ffs...

Its just more fun that way

neeb

meanredspider wrote:

Well, of course, if you're the weight of an anorexic schoolgirl, you're not really going to be worried about what brakes you have. But my response remains the same - if you actually need good brakes, discs are the ones to have. The exception, of course, is if you're mechanically incompetent and don't have a decent LBS to do all of your bike servicing.

Ha ha, well, I aspire towards anorexic school girl while maintaining my current FTP of course. Seriously though, body weight is a significant factor in the extent to which discs are going to be useful in normal riding situations.

When I built up my current winter bike I did actually consider disc brakes, but in the end settled for a rim brake build on a fully disc compatible frame (Kinesis Racelight 4S disc) because I had all the bits lying around. Maybe when they wear out I'll fit discs. One thing I definitely wasn't going to do without however was full mudguards. That's what I don't get - why would anyone want a disc braked bike without clearance for mudguards, given that you are going to get a wet arse any time the discs are actually useful?

bernithebiker

But what if the disc breaks brake?

meanredspider

In actually not too worried about full guards though both my disc bikes have guard mounts. I use a Zefal Swan-R to keep my butt dry. Wouldn't work if you're riding in a bunch because you still spray the guys behind but I ride solo 99% of the time so it's not an issue.

cookeeemonster

meanredspider wrote:

neeb wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

neeb wrote:

...
The exception, of course, is if you're mechanically incompetent and don't have a decent LBS to do all of your bike servicing.

I don't get his argument, which seems to be pretty common on these forums, that discs brakes require loads of complicated maintenance.

Anecdote time now, sorry

I've had my hydraulic disc brake bike now for 2 years and 12,000 all weather miles, and my total 'maintenance' has been fitting new brake pads which is basically a 5 minute job (a lot less time then setting up rim brakes, especially because you don't have to toe them in etc to not squeal).

It might be different if you're setting it up by scratch (bleeding them or something?) but 99% of people will get them set up from the shop I would've thought. Or have I just been lucky?

meanredspider

CookeeeMonster wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

neeb wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

neeb wrote:

...
The exception, of course, is if you're mechanically incompetent and don't have a decent LBS to do all of your bike servicing.

I don't get his argument, which seems to be pretty common on these forums, that discs brakes require loads of complicated maintenance.

Anecdote time now, sorry

I've had my hydraulic disc brake bike now for 2 years and 12,000 all weather miles, and my total 'maintenance' has been fitting new brake pads which is basically a 5 minute job (a lot less time then setting up rim brakes, especially because you don't have to toe them in etc to not squeal).

It might be different if you're setting it up by scratch (bleeding them or something?) but 99% of people will get them set up from the shop I would've thought. Or have I just been lucky?

No - you're fine. My comment was tongue-in-cheek to a large extent. There are a few people who seem to struggle with disc brakes and, like everything, there may be faults but generally they're pretty easy. My original HyRd brake had a fault where the pads didn't compensate for wear properly - TRP should really have recalled them - but otherwise I've found discs very easy to manage.

neeb

meanredspider wrote:

In actually not too worried about full guards though both my disc bikes have guard mounts. I use a Zefal Swan-R to keep my butt dry. Wouldn't work if you're riding in a bunch because you still spray the guys behind but I ride solo 99% of the time so it's not an issue.

There's a world of difference between one of those things and full mudguards in terms of protection of not just you but the bike from crud.. Not to mention that properly fitted mudguards don't requite constant fiddling and repositioning. And as for the aethetics..

meanredspider

neeb wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

In actually not too worried about full guards though both my disc bikes have guard mounts. I use a Zefal Swan-R to keep my butt dry. Wouldn't work if you're riding in a bunch because you still spray the guys behind but I ride solo 99% of the time so it's not an issue.

There's a world of difference between one of those things and full mudguards in terms of protection of not just you but the bike from crud.. Not to mention that properly fitted mudguards don't requite constant fiddling and repositioning. And as for the aethetics..

Yes - there is - but you can also take the Swan off the bike in 20s when you don't need it or want to stick the bike in the car. I commuted up here in the Highlands for 3 years using the Swan - I never once wished I had the full guards. Didn't need repositioning once but, with an aero seatpost, it located perfectly by design. As for aesthetics, you need to worry about what people think far more than I do to care. I can't see the Swan when I'm on the bike. I now use one on my Jamis in the Cotswolds.

On my SS in Amsterdam I had full guards but then I was commuting in the clothes I was going to wear at work. Whole different kettle of ball games.

neeb

meanredspider wrote:

I never once wished I had the full guards.

Really? With the bike unnecessarily caked in crud every day and spray on your face and legs all of the time? That's just weird.

meanredspider wrote:

As for aesthetics, you need to worry about what people think far more than I do to care. I can't see the Swan when I'm on the bike. I now use one on my Jamis in the Cotswolds.

Well, I was being a little toungue-in-cheek, but I do find it interesting that so many people claim to care absolutely nothing about aesthetics on the bike, but (I presume) don't walk around all day dressed like Rab C. Nesbitt. I can't see my arse when I'm walking down the street but if I had a big rip in my trousers I'd probably change them.. ;-)

meanredspider

neeb wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

I never once wished I had the full guards.

Really? With the bike unnecessarily caked in crud every day and spray on your face and legs all of the time? That's just weird.

meanredspider wrote:

As for aesthetics, you need to worry about what people think far more than I do to care. I can't see the Swan when I'm on the bike. I now use one on my Jamis in the Cotswolds.

Well, I was being a little toungue-in-cheek, but I do find it interesting that so many people claim to care absolutely nothing about aesthetics on the bike, but (I presume) don't walk around all day dressed like Rab C. Nesbitt. I can't see my ars* when I'm walking down the street but if I had a big rip in my trousers I'd probably change them.. ;-)

Mudpack - good for the complexion Actually it really has never been something I've worried about. Carbon fibre seems to cope fine with a bit of mud and water. Interestingly, the most damage to the frame was from where I did try guards at the beginning and they rubbed grit against the inside of the fork :roll:

I'm a function-over-form cyclist hence being an early adopter of disc brakes and Di2. Beauty, for me, is first and foremost the thing working really well. I prefer Assos gear for the same reason. And, if I had a big rip in my trousers I'd change them too because they wouldn't been keeping me warm - but plenty of people might consider that rip a fashion statement...

Semantik

I also have a Zefal Swan rear and will occasionally use it on the summer bike. But I have two winter bikes both with full 'guards, one for commuting and one for training. And I LUV the full guards and couldn't happily live with just a clip on rear. The extra protection to you and your bike is significant. A clip-on guard only will quickly see your rear brake calliper and front mech horribly crudded up and your lower legs still getting splattered. Also find with the Zefal Swan it can get knocked out of alignment and restricts the amount of seatpost available for seat bag and rear light mounting.

meanredspider

Semantik wrote:

I also have a Zefal Swan rear and will occasionally use it on the summer bike. But I have two winter bikes both with full 'guards, one for commuting and one for training. And I LUV the full guards and couldn't happily live with just a clip on rear. The extra protection to you and your bike is significant. A clip-on guard only will quickly see your rear brake calliper and front mech horribly crudded up and your lower legs still getting splattered. Also find with the Zefal Swan it can get knocked out of alignment and restricts the amount of seatpost available for seat bag and rear light mounting.

The great thing about disc brakes is that your rear calliper is well out of harm's way. I also find I have plenty of seat post for all manner of stuff (though I never use a seat-bag - though most come with somewhere to attach a light). As above, the notch in the Swan aligns perfectly with the training edge of my aero seatpost. Even with a round post like the Jamis has, you just need to do it up tight.

I guess these things are personal. I rode my brother's CX bike fitted with full guards on the Rapha HotN: firstly it was a pain to get in the car. Secondly I got toe overlap with the guard (fortunately only minor but disconcerting all the same). And thirdly I came to a grinding halt on a muddy path because the guards filled with mud so I ended up having to walk through the crap.

Anyhow, I know that there are plenty of folks who like full guards - I was just making the point that they aren't nirvana for everyone. For me, the Swan gives 80% of the benefit for 10% of the hassle. YMMV.

rick_chasey

meanredspider wrote:

I guess these things are personal. I rode my brother's CX bike fitted with full guards on the Rapha HotN: firstly it was a pain to get in the car. Secondly I got toe overlap with the guard (fortunately only minor but disconcerting all the same).

You are obviously not short.

meanredspider

Rick Chasey wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

I guess these things are personal. I rode my brother's CX bike fitted with full guards on the Rapha HotN: firstly it was a pain to get in the car. Secondly I got toe overlap with the guard (fortunately only minor but disconcerting all the same).

You are obviously not short.

There's no answer to that...

gnave

So........

I received the bike, and its lovely except..... My DI2 Front derailer seems not to want to shift from small cog to the big cog when on incline.

Canyon asked to send the bike back to them for a tuneup. I am resisting and asking for a full replacement.

Can't see how a bike costing over 4K should need to go back for a tune-up on its first week.

thegreatdivide

gnave wrote:

So........

I received the bike, and its lovely except..... My DI2 Front derailer seems not to want to shift from small cog to the big cog when on incline.

Canyon asked to send the bike back to them for a tuneup. I am resisting and asking for a full replacement.

Can't see how a bike costing over 4K should need to go back for a tune-up on its first week.

A full replacement? Take it to a bike shop and get them to do the 'tune up'. It'll cost a hell of a lot less than sending it back.

trailflow

They wont send you a replacement until you send it back eitherway. And there is no guarantee the next bike will be set up perfectly either. Infact they quite often never are out of the box no matter how much it cost. Sending it back is a drastic option that's quite unnecessary if its only an adjustment issue of the FD.

Have you tried to adjust the FD yourself ? There are plenty of tutorials and youtube videos.

If not, i would try taking it to a local bike shop mechanic who knows how to work with Di2. Its probably a set up issue to do with the FD alignment and height.

If you havn't done it already, do a full bolt check, in case anything is lose and causing the chainset/chainrings/FD to flex under load.

Make sure the FD support bolt is touching the frame also.

gnave

Took it to the local shop, They seem to think the front derailer is bent, so will need replacement.

Easier to just get the to replace the bike.

gweeds

Easier to replace an entire bike than a front mech?

gnave

It has to go back to Canyon, the work will not be done for free in the local LBS.

gweeds

I'd be getting Canyon to pay for it to be fixed here myself. Cheaper than shipping it back and then again to you. Plus will you have to wait for a new bike?

hsiaolc

gnave wrote:

Took it to the local shop, They seem to think the front derailer is bent, so will need replacement.

Easier to just get the to replace the bike.

FD bent?!! I really don't think so. They are normally very tough. The hangers or RD get bent normally but not FD!!!!

You sure its not the setup?

It should come with a connector to hook up to your PC and you can adjust the FD from there.

When you look at the FD does it look bent to you?!

But it is bent (you can tell by eye) then take a picture and send it to Canyon and either ask for a new FD or have them fix it.

sloppyschleckonds

I'm pretty sure Canyon will pick up and drop the bike back without charge, just the wait I suppose without a bike.

fuel2000

If you get the work done at a local shop, Canyon will refund the money if you send them a copy of a receipt. I' ve done this a few times.

gnave

fuel2000 wrote:

If you get the work done at a local shop, Canyon will refund the money if you send them a copy of a receipt. I' ve done this a few times.

It may be a great bike, but it's still a lot of money for something that you have to be prepared to accept in not fully working order. That's not right in my book, however cheap it may be.

hsiaolc

gnave wrote:

fuel2000 wrote:

If you get the work done at a local shop, Canyon will refund the money if you send them a copy of a receipt. I' ve done this a few times.

It may be a great bike, but it's still a lot of money for something that you have to be prepared to accept in not fully working order. That's not right in my book, however cheap it may be.

Yes. Very understandable.

But don't stress yourself. It has happened so no need to trouble yourself for it. Just get it sorted out and you will be happy with the bike.

The quickest way is to get local bike shop to fix it for you and then bill Canyon.

gnave

hsiaolc wrote:

gnave wrote:

fuel2000 wrote:

If you get the work done at a local shop, Canyon will refund the money if you send them a copy of a receipt. I' ve done this a few times.

It may be a great bike, but it's still a lot of money for something that you have to be prepared to accept in not fully working order. That's not right in my book, however cheap it may be.

Yes. Very understandable.

But don't stress yourself. It has happened so no need to trouble yourself for it. Just get it sorted out and you will be happy with the bike.

The quickest way is to get local bike shop to fix it for you and then bill Canyon.

I just have a bad feeling about it all now. And what worries me the most is: Problem with DI2 gearing at the start.... juts not a good sign.
Even if I get it fixed at the local LBS, if the problem comes back, I will regret not trying the replacement path.

WheelMeals

Not sure where you're based Gnave, but don't Canyon have a UK workshop in Chessington (SW London suburb) if easy to get to. Or billing your LBS and expensing is sounds easier than sending back

https://www.canyon.com/en-gb/about-us/contact/

WheelMeals

PS: You might have swayed my decision to not buy a Di2 bike!
PS: Good luck with the fix. Must be super annoying

gweeds

Bent mechs aren't unique to Di2.

Things happen in transit. Easiest way to resolve this is via LBS and bill to Canyon.