My research and the 'violence' I have witnessed

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Comments

  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,424
    It's a pity that the OP, with his academic focus on groups of people and behaviours, failed to understand the etiquette of an internet forum, or the likelihood of criticism. (Or maybe his thesis is actually on internet forums?)

    Academics themselves don't pull their punches, but they normally manage to keep it polite, and focus the criticism on the ideas/methodology, rather than the person (and should always back up their criticism with sound reasoning, not insult). The ad hominems on this thread from one person in particular remind me why he is one of the handful of BR people I've blocked. It's sad how a thread can get derailed and unpleasant by the actions of one or two people.
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • MikeBrew
    MikeBrew Posts: 814
    Yesterday I purchased a black Gabba 2 jersey, despite already being in possession of a perfectly serviceable -and safer- bright yellow one. Am I the victim of sociological violence pressuring me to want to fit in and look "cool", or am I the victim of biological washing powder failing to keep the yellow one clean looking on a gentle-wash 30 degrees C cycle ? Discuss...

    Bonus marks will be awarded use of any esoteric terminology, especially words ending in 'ology. Marks will be deducted for willful displays of straight talking and/or commonsense. Marks may also be deducted for oversimplification of the very complex reasons why folk enjoy bicycling.
    A special prize, from our mystery sponsor, is available for any student who is able to prove that they typed their thesis from the saddle of a Kinesis..(For legal reasons we are not able to reveal the identity of our mystery sponsor).
  • popularname
    popularname Posts: 173
    I really get that you don't like the original post Mike. Let it go.
    __________________________________________
    >> Domane Four Series > Ridgeback Voyage
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    MikeBrew wrote:
    Yesterday I purchased a black Gabba 2 jersey, despite already being in possession of a perfectly serviceable -and safer- bright yellow one. Am I the victim of sociological violence pressuring me to want to fit in and look "cool", or am I the victim of biological washing powder failing to keep the yellow one clean looking on a gentle-wash 30 degrees C cycle ? Discuss...

    Bonus marks will be awarded use of any esoteric terminology, especially words ending in 'ology. Marks will be deducted for willful displays of straight talking and/or commonsense. Marks may also be deducted for oversimplification of the very complex reasons why folk enjoy bicycling.
    A special prize, from our mystery sponsor, is available for any student who is able to prove that they typed their thesis from the saddle of a Kinesis..(For legal reasons we are not able to reveal the identity of our mystery sponsor).

    Mate. Why does it upset you so much?

    It's a lens through which to analyse and look through the world. It has its uses. The reason we have different disciplines is so we can dissect the world in many different ways to extract the most from it.

    They use their own specific context, which is usually referring to theories that are already establish to someone trained in the field.

    It's just a perspective, and it can be useful.

    The thing with research is you don't really know if it's going to be useful until you've done it.
    _
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    bompington wrote:
    The whole "symbolic violence" thing is just a way for smarty-pants sociologists to enforce their viewpoint on everyone, i.e. an act of symbolic violence. Or something like that.

    Or it's a technical term which references a broader way of looking at societies and groups....
    _
  • MikeBrew
    MikeBrew Posts: 814
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    MikeBrew wrote:
    Yesterday I purchased a black Gabba 2 jersey, despite already being in possession of a perfectly serviceable -and safer- bright yellow one. Am I the victim of sociological violence pressuring me to want to fit in and look "cool", or am I the victim of biological washing powder failing to keep the yellow one clean looking on a gentle-wash 30 degrees C cycle ? Discuss...

    Bonus marks will be awarded use of any esoteric terminology, especially words ending in 'ology. Marks will be deducted for willful displays of straight talking and/or commonsense. Marks may also be deducted for oversimplification of the very complex reasons why folk enjoy bicycling.
    A special prize, from our mystery sponsor, is available for any student who is able to prove that they typed their thesis from the saddle of a Kinesis..(For legal reasons we are not able to reveal the identity of our mystery sponsor).

    Mate. Why does it upset you so much?

    .

    Well mainly because it never comes out of the machine looking properly "clean"... :|
  • buckmulligan
    buckmulligan Posts: 1,031
    You clearly have a chip on your shoulder about this issue.

    If you feel intimidated by words with more than one syllable or contexts that aren't plain enough for you to understand then perhaps stick to posting in the Bottom Bracket.
  • MikeBrew
    MikeBrew Posts: 814
    BuckMulligan wrote:
    You clearly have a chip on your shoulder about this issue.

    If you feel intimidated by words with more than one syllable or contexts that aren't plain enough for you to understand then perhaps stick to posting in the Bottom Bracket.


    Well, to be fair, wouldn't you be "chippy" having to shell out for 2 Gabba 2's. I mean, they are not cheap kit are they ? :P OK, OK, so I should have known better than to go for yellow in the first place with the roads I ride on.... Hindsight eh . :cry:

    Not quite sure why you feel the need to decry the bottom bracket regulars, by the way. :roll:
  • bianchimoon
    bianchimoon Posts: 3,942
    @tonyrees123 I'm sure you're big enough, wise enough, long in the tooth enough to take internet comments with a pinch of salt, if you are reading, let us know how it goes in January, good luck
    All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....
  • Beatmaker
    Beatmaker Posts: 1,092
    I've agreed with some of Tony's viewpoints, disagreed with others. I find it interesting to read his blog nonetheless. It's not a huge surprise that he doesn't post more, what with the childish and personal insults his blog seems to have garnered from some corners of BR. Not that it matters but but I think Tony looks pretty sharp, hope I can pull of such a magnificent beard at 55!
  • letap73
    letap73 Posts: 1,608
    I don't agree with Tony Rees blog post, however, some of the responses - in particular from one poster - seem to attack the blog poster rather than suggest why Tony Rees analysis is flawed - perhaps that one poster could address said flaws on his blog page - responses are allowed, see link below:

    http://www.theraceforthecafe.com/2016/1 ... essed.html

    Personally, I think the sample size that he has conducted from is too small and restrictive - he seems to have canvassed opinions mostly from his direct peers and his findings are not unlikely to have been influenced by his own prejudices.
  • bompington
    bompington Posts: 7,674
    Makes me wonder - if his externals start asking tricky questions, or - heaven forbid - tell him he's wrong about something in his viva, can he just accuse them of symbolic violence as they're trying to force him to fit in with their viewpoint?

    This post-modern, post-truth world is such a minefield but there are plenty of opportunities for the quick-witted...
  • letap73
    letap73 Posts: 1,608
    bompington wrote:
    Makes me wonder - if his externals start asking tricky questions, or - heaven forbid - tell him he's wrong about something in his viva, can he just accuse them of symbolic violence as they're trying to force him to fit in with their viewpoint?

    This post-modern, post-truth world is such a minefield but there are plenty of opportunities for the quick-witted...


    The truth in his research is obviously very subjective - my problem with his research is that he appears to have based it on his own immediate peers and there is a concern that he may have steered the "conversation" he has had to fit the narrative of his research. If I was interviewing him these are points I would raise and at the same time I would point out that a cursory view of the bike radar forum, where he has minimal influence, would show a whole array of opinions which don't support his conclusions. For example, there are many forum posts which show posters are not always conditioned to buy Rapha/Castelli/Assos - the many references to the likes of Aldi cycle clothing is a case in point.
  • MikeBrew
    MikeBrew Posts: 814
    edited December 2016
    bianchimoon wrote:
    @tonyrees123 I'm sure you're big enough, wise enough, long in the tooth enough to take internet comments with a pinch of salt, if you are reading, let us know how it goes in January, good luck


    Here here. To be honest the subject of symbolic violence is probably quite interesting and deep. However, I pretty much feel that Tony has been more than a little bit lazy trying to apply his thesis to his immediate world bubble i.e, cycling, something he hasn't got to go out of his way for.
    Also, it's somewhat trivializing something that usually applies to fundamentally socially divisive issues like racism, sexism, ageism, culture,class, disability, and even religion, to apply a label of "sociological violence" to a study of an essentially very small sample of ,sociologically, very similar people. Mostly men, mostly white working/middle class with enough disposable income to indulge i n their hobby of choice, mostly not suffering age related/or other physical infirmity.
    A few years back his thesis might equally-well have been on the group, that Jeremy Clarkeson likes to call Golfists.......Hardly a socially downtrodden lot..
    As he's already noted, his examiners while be the final arbiters of the "validity of his research, and maybe if he uses enough terms that are "accepted" currency in that particular field of academia he might just show that he's "fitted in" well enough to get the approval of his chosen group. That group being sociologists, his reward being a pass.
    Personally I think that his application of his subject to cycling is, to put it in lay mans terms - a bit contrived - a little weak of trivial relevance if any, to members of the group under scrutiny- and a lot lazy.
    Anyway it's very near Christmas, and here's hoping the weather is kind enough some decent rides over the break. Merry Xmas everyone !
  • bianchimoon
    bianchimoon Posts: 3,942
    MikeBrew wrote:
    bianchimoon wrote:
    @tonyrees123 I'm sure you're big enough, wise enough, long in the tooth enough to take internet comments with a pinch of salt, if you are reading, let us know how it goes in January, good luck


    Here here. To be honest the subject of symbolic violence is probably quite interesting and deep. However, I pretty much feel that Tony has been more than a little bit lazy trying to apply his thesis to his immediate world bubble i.e, cycling, something he hasn't got to go out of his way for.
    Also, it's somewhat trivializing something that usually applies to fundamentally socially divisive issues like racism, sexism, ageism, culture,class, disability, and even religion, to apply a label of "sociological violence" to a study of an essentially very small sample of ,sociologically, very similar people. Mostly men, mostly white working/middle class with enough disposable income to indulge i n their hobby of choice, mostly not suffering age related/or other physical infirmity.
    As he's already noted, his examiners while be the final arbiters of the "validity of his research, and maybe if he uses enough terms that are "accepted" currency in that particular field of academia he might just show that he's "fitted in" well enough to get the approval of his chosen group. That group being sociologists, his reward being a pass.
    Personally I think that his application of his subject to cycling is, to put it in lay mans terms - a bit contrived - a little weak of trivial relevance if any, to memebers of the group under scrutiny- and a lot lazy.
    Anyway it's very near Christmas, and here's hoping the weather is kind enough some decent rides over the break. Merry Xmas everyone !
    Merry xmas Mike and all, judging by the weather forecast ooop north xmas riding could be a write off, hope it's better where all you guys are
    All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....
  • popularname
    popularname Posts: 173
    This is getting quite irritating. :roll:
    MikeBrew wrote:
    I pretty much feel that Tony has been more than a little bit lazy trying to apply his thesis to his immediate world bubble i.e, cycling, something he hasn't got to go out of his way for.
    Not sure if you've done research, Mike, but if you have you'll know about sample selection and the need to ensure there aren't too many variables that might all be contributing factors to the outcomes you observe.
    MikeBrew wrote:
    Also, it's somewhat trivializing something that usually applies to fundamentally socially divisive issues like racism, sexism, ageism, culture,class, disability, and even religion, to apply a label of "sociological violence" to a study of an essentially very small sample of ,sociologically, very similar people.
    I don't agree. By focussing on one group and one activity, Tony is able to explore the fundamental reasons why groups that are supposed to be pursuing a common interest and shared outcome still fragment in a tribal fashion. As we all know, as soon as three people with a common interest get together, allegiances, choices and tensions start to emerge. Tony is exploring how that dynamic plays out in a competitive group of individuals. Interesting.

    Also, of course, research is not carried out in a black box. Tony has a supervisor with whom he will have discussed the research approach and together they will have developed a robust research methodology. He would not have been allowed to submit his thesis otherwise.
    bompington wrote
    Makes me wonder - if his externals start asking tricky questions, or - heaven forbid - tell him he's wrong about something in his viva, can he just accuse them of symbolic violence as they're trying to force him to fit in with their viewpoint?
    There's a good chance Tony's external will start asking tricky questions. That's part of the point of a viva - to ensure that the researcher can back up their work and explain their arguments fully.

    Throughout this thread, commentators have failed to note that Tony's blog is just that - a blog. It's not his research, but an informal website that explores some of the ideas in his research. Tony's viva won't be about his blog, it will be about his thesis.

    As I've read these comments, I've wondered how much effort some posters have made to read the blog. On the front page, it says
    Some blog readers may recognise and relate to what I describe from their own experiences, others almost certainly will not, or may disagree with my findings. This is to be expected, as my research provides just one explanation for the behaviours that I have observed in one particular location

    I think we all need to go out riding...
    __________________________________________
    >> Domane Four Series > Ridgeback Voyage
  • MikeBrew
    MikeBrew Posts: 814
    popularname wrote:
    This is getting quite irritating. :roll:

    Oh dear, never mind. Santa will bring you something nice to make it better, I'm sure... :D

    popularname wrote:
    I think we all need to go out riding...
    Absolutely !

    Merry Xmas ....
  • fat daddy
    fat daddy Posts: 2,605
    I wonder if his theses is actually about "keyboard warriors and the regression to a child state of mind when hid behind a monitor where you don't need to rely on your 12 year old girl like arms to protect your face"

    and you are all lab rats in this thesis aiding the research :D

    next week he will write a short statement about disc brakes paving the way for faster cycling ... I look forward to that response ;)
  • MikeBrew
    MikeBrew Posts: 814
    Get a cab home early - clearly a very boring office party this year......
  • darkhairedlord
    darkhairedlord Posts: 7,180
    Projection
  • MikeBrew
    MikeBrew Posts: 814
    Time and tech moves on... It always used to be all about the photo copier....
  • darkhairedlord
    darkhairedlord Posts: 7,180
    1913_Victoria_Copying_Machine.jpg

    those were the days...

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