My research and the 'violence' I have witnessed

TonyRees123

Has anyone else witnessed it - or been a victim?
http://www.theraceforthecafe.com/2016/1 ... essed.html

MikeBrew

In order not to kowtow to the symbolic violence you mention, I always wear white Y fronts over my Lydl bib-shorts , and a string vest in-place of the ubiquitous Black Castelli Gabba when cycling on my homemade bike, fashioned from B+Q four by two.... # is retirement really THAT boring.# buy a decent bike

cougie

The rules from the velomonati are just a joke. I dont care for them.

Man Of Lard

cougie wrote:

The rules from the velomonati are just a joke. I dont care for them.

I use them as a guide to what I should be doing... If the rules say X, I aim to do the opposite of X

Probably why I got blackballed from the village group ride (or it could simply be that the guy that lead it sucked the joy out of cycling for me)

pblakeney

One need only answer one question.
Why would I care what others think?

flanners1

This 'group conformity' is not particular to cycling and exists in all spheres of human interaction does it not. Just buy a bike any bike, ride it where you want, in any attire you want, with (or without) who you want. The chap in your blog photos does seem to be sporting some of the recent visual cyclist symbolism you chose to highlight?

fat daddy

^^^ this.

people are naturally wanting to be accepted and to fit in, whether they admit it or lie to themselves every social situation is a quagmire of people allowing themselves to full victim of "symbolic violence"

TV adverts prey on it "the cool people are wearing this", Car manufacturers sell it to you "this car is the lifestyle that you want", Kitchens, clothes, Watches, Jewellery, restaurants, what you eat in the evening, trainers, ... even fceking what TV program you are watching. .... Hell I hate TV shows, but Crap on a stick the abuse I get for not conforming and watching Game of thrones.

Its also hard not to be victim of it as well ... Just start a post on here that you wear a Proviz jacket or ride on Gatorskins .... you will get heralded an idiot with 10 posts because you arnt doing it correctly compared to some 60 year old keyboard warrior

Perhaps the we are looking in the wrong direction and we should think "why do I care what other people think" ... and more "why should people care what I think, I'll just shut up and let that person wear underwear under his bibshorts"

bompington

The whole "symbolic violence" thing is just a way for smarty-pants sociologists to enforce their viewpoint on everyone, i.e. an act of symbolic violence. Or something like that.

DeVlaeminck

I used to like the fact that cycling had a set of unwritten rules that pre social media were something you picked up from experience. OK maybe you can portray that negatively as enforced uniformity through social pressure but I'd see it more as willingly joining a group through adopting (I'm not a sociologist so forgive me if I'm misusing the terminology) social signifiers. This was when cycling was more niche and it was a case of wanting that kind of insider knowlege some of it genuinely useful or even necessary (how to ride in a group) and some of it frivolous (what sock colour to wear).

Now of course cycling is more mainstream and with social media and "the rules" being written down albeit as a joke (we always knew they were feintly ridiculous but cycling is meant to be fun) any sense of being part of a niche group is gone. Anyone can get all the information to become a road cyclist - no longer do people start out wearing football shorts and trainers. The knowledge no longer has to be acquired through experience, becoming a cyclist no longer has to be earned and as a result the value is lost.

MikeBrew

bompington wrote:

The whole "symbolic violence" thing is just a way for smarty-pants sociologists to enforce their viewpoint on everyone, i.e. an act of symbolic violence. Or something like that.

I'd have to agree with bompington here. The old dude trying to look "cool" in the photo s on said naff blog appears to be as extreme a slave to cycle fashion as one could wish to meet. Looks like he's be on the losing side in a few very nasty punch-ups - in the symbolic sense. At the same time he seeks to suck the joy out of a good ole fashioned bike ride by trying to "intellectualize" and analyse the sh1t out of it...
What a waste of his twilight years. Live, ride your bike and enjoy it, get a dog, get a part time job, get your head out of your arse. You ain't gonna be on this earth for ever, enjoy life, and don't seek approbation of mumbo-jumbo peddlers and pseudo intellectuals.... :roll:

Thank Fork he ain't on my club runs.

imposter2.0

Kin ell, I think I agree with Mike...

MikeBrew

Imposter wrote:

Kin ell, I think I agree with Mike...

:shock:

lettingthedaysgoby

Buy a bike, ride it.

Anything more than that really seems to be over thinking things somewhat as far as I can tell

kingstongraham

You'd think that groups of people wearing similar things was a new/cycling specific phenomenon.

fenix

And by calling this stuff 'violence' - you take away the proper meaning of the word. I'm not sure what the point of the blog is really - it's been discussed lots of times on here already.

Brakeless

MikeBrew wrote:

bompington wrote:

The whole "symbolic violence" thing is just a way for smarty-pants sociologists to enforce their viewpoint on everyone, i.e. an act of symbolic violence. Or something like that.

I'd have to agree with bompington here. The old dude trying to look "cool" in the photo s on said naff blog appears to be as extreme a slave to cycle fashion as one could wish to meet. Looks like he's be on the losing side in a few very nasty punch-ups - in the symbolic sense. At the same time he seeks to suck the joy out of a good ole fashioned bike ride by trying to "intellectualize" and analyse the sh1t out of it...
What a waste of his twilight years. Live, ride your bike and enjoy it, get a dog, get a part time job, get your head out of your ars*. You ain't gonna be on this earth for ever, enjoy life, and don't seek approbation of mumbo-jumbo peddlers and pseudo intellectuals.... :roll:

Thank Fork he ain't on my club runs.

100% agree

What's the chance that his next post will be to promote his next blog entry.

Surely there must be some psuedo intellectual crap to write about a sad old bloke who uses a forum just to promote his own sad blog and contributes f*ck all else.

kingstongraham

Fenix wrote:

And by calling this stuff 'violence' - you take away the proper meaning of the word. I'm not sure what the point of the blog is really - it's been discussed lots of times on here already.

"Symbolic violence". Where "Symbolic" takes on the meaning of the word "not".

Moonbiker

I still wear football shorts & crocs etc sometimes for a "pootle" under 30 mile not on the club run though.

I was just wondering recently, how nowadays on the club run. few people seem to have lower groupset than 105 gearing(most are ultergra), or riding a bike older than 3yrs old is fairly rare on the club run, club cycling seems imo to be getting progressively more middle class in the type of people attrcted to it?

Alot of miscoceptions about gear "needed", some cyclist think you have that you "have to" speed at least £1000 for an entry lvl bike?

fenix

Never thought to wear crocs on a bike. Do they come with SPD fitting ? ;-)

webboo

I insist on wearing the right kit rules or else I won't allow myself to ride with me.

Alex99

Brakeless wrote:

MikeBrew wrote:

bompington wrote:

The whole "symbolic violence" thing is just a way for smarty-pants sociologists to enforce their viewpoint on everyone, i.e. an act of symbolic violence. Or something like that.

I'd have to agree with bompington here. The old dude trying to look "cool" in the photo s on said naff blog appears to be as extreme a slave to cycle fashion as one could wish to meet. Looks like he's be on the losing side in a few very nasty punch-ups - in the symbolic sense. At the same time he seeks to suck the joy out of a good ole fashioned bike ride by trying to "intellectualize" and analyse the sh1t out of it...
What a waste of his twilight years. Live, ride your bike and enjoy it, get a dog, get a part time job, get your head out of your ars*. You ain't gonna be on this earth for ever, enjoy life, and don't seek approbation of mumbo-jumbo peddlers and pseudo intellectuals.... :roll:

Thank Fork he ain't on my club runs.

100% agree

What's the chance that his next post will be to promote his next blog entry.

Surely there must be some psuedo intellectual crap to write about a sad old bloke who uses a forum just to promote his own sad blog and contributes f*ck all else.

The "old dude" is the author, right? Let's not be too harsh, others use this forum to promote their blogs and don't seem to get this treatment.

Have to agree, it's not violence in any sensible meaning of the word. Perhaps, mild low level bullying in some cases.

The author suggests that this is carried out by a dominant member of the group using their "...‘insider knowledge’ of the prevailing taste distinctions" and "...cultural and symbolic capital". Is this really true? As others have said, these things are not insider knowledge any more. By dominant, does he also mean not necessarily experienced and respected? Basically, a gobby idiot. Do these types really have any significant cultural and symbolic capital?

MikeBrew

Webboo wrote:

I insist on wearing the right kit rules or else I won't allow myself to ride with me.

Presumably one is sporting regulation gnarly beard as allusive testimony to many thousands of hard core winter training miles ? Also does one understand that full black kit is considered de rigueur by all serious and learned cyclists ? Any bright colours in a nod to road safety are considered bad form and for "pussys only."
All photos must show the rider, affectedly posed, looking serious and moody and be photo shopped to include ominous dark-clouded skys,,,,,

mrb123

Thought he was the geezer who models for Café du Cycliste...
http://www.cafeducycliste.com/men/men-s-jerseys.html

MikeBrew

Don't think so. Perhaps they have joint custody of the beard.....

keef66

I've never been a member of a cycling club, but if I was I think I'd be constantly trying to upset any kit snobs by wearing carefully chosen mismatched and downmarket apparel. And I wouldn't feel pressured into spending a grand on a bike to ride in a bunch of strangers; I'm old enough and stubborn enough (ask my wife ) not to give a flying fark what anyone else thinks of me, my clothing or my bikes.

I don't know if it's relevant, but I note the OP is a former triathlete / ironman. IME, triathletes often tend towards over analysing all the enjoyment out of the thing. Maybe now he's had to give up the running and swimming, the cycling's getting an inordinate amount of scrutiny?

When I retire I'll just be riding my bikes. And I won't be writing a blog about beards or sock choice...

fenix

You'd probably do better to be in a club Keef. In my experience - they like you to wear the club jersey - which is fair enough - and if you do wear that - then there's no dilemma of Castelli v Gore v Assos v Rapha.

Nobody was arsed about the price of bikes - in fact I was out with my mate on his new superbike - 5 grands worth or something. Bumped into one of the club elders. 'ooh whats that' - he was looking at my £300 fixed winter bike...

If you wear a yellow jersey - or a KOM jersey - they WILL take the pee out of you unless you're first to the top of the mountain - but I think that's far enough and it's just a laugh.

MikeBrew

Indeed. Cycling isn't about "symbolic violence", it's about ACTUAL ENJOYMENT. A bit good spirited, tongue-in-cheek mickey taking only adds to the fun. Lighten up Tony..........! And give the Mrs a bit more quality time, her clock is ticked too you know. None of us are here for ever.
Or is that all a bit too straight forward and humdrum for you and your planet sized ego? : sorry intellect, I meant t say intellect - Obviously. 8)

Hinaultscrapcousin

Fenix wrote:

Never thought to wear crocs on a bike. Do they come with SPD fitting ? ;-)

Actually...

popularname

Jeez, guys, settle down.

Looks an interesting and well researched piece of work. I'm not sure how much of it I'll agree with but I'm interested to read more to find out - from what there is so far, it looks like Tony's research is well constructed and bound to be insightful. Sociology of groups is a pretty fundamental piece of being human.

Basically, of course, the conversation in the thread so far is rather proving Tony's point that groups use symbolic domination to exert pressure to conform.

Brakeless

popularname wrote:

Basically, of course, the conversation in the thread so far is rather proving Tony's point that groups use symbolic domination to exert pressure to conform.

Er no. The conversation seems to be mainly saying that what he's written is b*llocks

pblakeney

popularname wrote:

Basically, of course, the conversation in the thread so far is rather proving Tony's point that groups use symbolic domination to exert pressure to conform.

Who? Tony seven posts? All regarding his blog.
Most replies here have been to say not to conform. Or are we all conforming by not conforming?