My research and the 'violence' I have witnessed

popularname · December 2016

Er no. The conversation seems to be mainly saying that what he's written is b*llocks

Oops. Doing it again...

Hinaultscrapcousin · December 2016

Couple of points on the blog (even though the author seems to be a "dump and run" type poster):

1. Stop taking photos while you're riding in a group situation, it's bloody stupid. It's pretty stupid at other times too. I'm surprised a club will let you ride with them if you are doing that to be honest.

2. 149 email interviews and you quote 2 of them? This instantly makes me think that the other 147 said something along the lines of "don't be silly".

General thoughts: Firstly I think you're riding with the wrong people if this is actually true.

You seem to be implying that people buy expensive kit because they are in some way forced into it. I don't think I've ever seen that happen in any of the clubs I've ridden with. Most people buy expensive kit because good kit tends to be expensive. You might start off riding in cheap, pull up, padded shorts and a baggy jersey, but after a while you find that a decent pair of bibs and fitted jersey make the riding much more enjoyable. So how do you decide what to buy? You ask your clubmates/look at what they are wearing. When 50% of the club recommend a Gabba you just might consider buying one.

People always on expensive bikes is again dependent on the club and the people in it, but when you can get an Ultegra specc'd bike for around £1000 (i.e. bike to work scheme money) it's unsurprising that you see many of them out on club runs. The problem with this observation is you don't actually say what frame and wheels these parts are bolted to, and that makes a massive difference.

Hinaultscrapcousin · December 2016

popularname wrote:

Jeez, guys, settle down.

Looks an interesting and well researched piece of work. I'm not sure how much of it I'll agree with but I'm interested to read more to find out - from what there is so far, it looks like Tony's research is well constructed and bound to be insightful. Sociology of groups is a pretty fundamental piece of being human.

Basically, of course, the conversation in the thread so far is rather proving Tony's point that groups use symbolic domination to exert pressure to conform.

Looks is the operative word here. He states big numbers, then presents quotes from 2 people, a single photo with no analysis and writes nothing more insightful than has been written many times before and received the same responses. All he does is frame it using more inflammatory language then what most people would.

MikeBrew · December 2016

Lot's of Planet X product placement in Tony's "work"... And, Oh look it just so happens that "junior"appears to be sponsored by them.. Tony really, hardly subtle are "we" ! What was that about pressure to conform again ?

flanners1 · December 2016

Fenix wrote:

You'd probably do better to be in a club Keef. In my experience - they like you to wear the club jersey - which is fair enough - and if you do wear that - then there's no dilemma of Castelli v Gore v Assos v Rapha.

Nobody was arsed about the price of bikes - in fact I was out with my mate on his new superbike - 5 grands worth or something. Bumped into one of the club elders. 'ooh whats that' - he was looking at my £300 fixed winter bike...

If you wear a yellow jersey - or a KOM jersey - they WILL take the pee out of you unless you're first to the top of the mountain - but I think that's far enough and it's just a laugh.

I have cycled all my life, well since I could get on a bicycle.

The reason I love cycling is the insular nature of it, the ability to undertake an activity on your own, with your own power, thoughts, pain, excitement etc. My best cycling experiences have been on my own or with a mate or two, not on any 'club run' (in fact I detest wearing a club outfit and see no real point to it on training rides) and I like wearing different kit on different bikes/days/weather. I can see some of what the OP states in how some cycling clubs are organised and the factions (nobs) and rules within them which from my own experience diminish the enjoyment of riding my bike.

meesterbond · December 2016

Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:

Looks is the operative word here. He states big numbers, then presents quotes from 2 people, a single photo with no analysis and writes nothing more insightful than has been written many times before and received the same responses. All he does is frame it using more inflammatory language then what most people would.

If, after 400 hours of 'research' and god knows how many interviews, the best the OP has come up with is that 'people feel pressure to fit in' and wrapped it up in a little melodramatic psychobabble and cut&pasted sections of The Rules.

My guess is that he's told the missus he's researching for a thesis then gone off to ride his bike for months on end when he should have been creosoting the fence.

flanners1 · December 2016

Now that is funny

Hinaultscrapcousin · December 2016

meesterbond wrote:

Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:

Looks is the operative word here. He states big numbers, then presents quotes from 2 people, a single photo with no analysis and writes nothing more insightful than has been written many times before and received the same responses. All he does is frame it using more inflammatory language then what most people would.

If, after 400 hours of 'research' and god knows how many interviews, the best the OP has come up with is that 'people feel pressure to fit in' and wrapped it up in a little melodramatic psychobabble and cut&pasted sections of The Rules.

My guess is that he's told the missus he's researching for a thesis then gone off to ride his bike for months on end when he should have been creosoting the fence.

Have to admit that's my feeling as well. I don't see any revolutionary insight here, he's just changed the way of framing something that has been happening for decades.

He does say he has submitted his thesis and it will be examined on 17th January so I'm sure we'll find out how it goes. Maybe the in-depth analysis is waiting until he has been viva'd.

Maybe he would get less of a tough time if he actually interacted...

bompington · December 2016

Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:

He does say he has submitted his thesis and it will be examined on 17th January so I'm sure we'll find out how it goes. Maybe the in-depth analysis is waiting until he has been viva'd

He'll get an easy time with that kind of stuff 'cos it's exactly what has been reinforced in the Sociology in-group for decades by symbolic violence and micro-aggressions towards anybody who dares to think differently.

briantrumpet · December 2016

PBlakeney wrote:

Who? Tony seven posts? All regarding his blog.

The OP has done a post & run job on Cyclechat too. Didn't go down too well.

kingstongraham · December 2016

popularname wrote:

Basically, of course, the conversation in the thread so far is rather proving Tony's point that groups use symbolic domination to exert pressure to conform.

Tony's post was about symbolic violence. I think that is a misuse of the word.

What the blog post is actually about is the concept of "fashion".

briantrumpet · December 2016

popularname wrote:

Basically, of course, the conversation in the thread so far is rather proving Tony's point that groups use symbolic domination to exert pressure to conform.

There are different types of conforming though. If you enter any type of 'group' there are different sorts of conventions it's wise to follow, for various reasons, but mostly have the aim of the smooth-running of the group: there are those that are laid down in law/rules, and those that are generally accepted conventions (which could be loosely termed 'politeness').

If you're sensible about entering new groups, particularly if you're going to do more than observe, it's wise to check what the conventions are, if you don't want to put your foot in it. Or, at least, check if you've put your foot in it, and say "Oops, sorry!" quickly if you sense you've blundered.

imposter2.0 · December 2016

I think the sooner his supervisory panel award him his PhD, the better for all of us.

Hinaultscrapcousin · December 2016

KingstonGraham wrote:

popularname wrote:

Basically, of course, the conversation in the thread so far is rather proving Tony's point that groups use symbolic domination to exert pressure to conform.

Tony's post was about symbolic violence. I think that is a misuse of the word.

What the blog post is actually about is the concept of "fashion".

I dont agree with that. Having a read about it, it seems that the term is well established, Tony isn't making it up, but he may have been better using symbolic power. Although that's not as provocative is it...

popularname · December 2016

What the blog post is actually about is the concept of "fashion".

Nice interpretation. Fashion as a form of symbolic domination...? Reckon so.

Anyhoo, if Tony's viva is in just over a month, then the thesis must be done and in and I wish him well for it. Been there and it is a tough old gig...

svetty · December 2016

bompington wrote:

The whole "symbolic violence" thing is just a way for smarty-pants sociologists to enforce their viewpoint on everyone, i.e. an act of symbolic violence. Or something like that.

^ this

briantrumpet · December 2016

popularname wrote:

What the blog post is actually about is the concept of "fashion".

Nice interpretation. Fashion as a form of symbolic domination...? Reckon so.

I must admit I'm always amused that the way of rebelling against 'fashion' or conformity' always ends up by establishing another fashion or conformity. See 'hipsters', for instance.. you establish your individuality by joining another group...

carbonclem · December 2016

It took me ages to get involved with a local road cycling club for various reasons, some of which included being concerned about fitting in and not looking an arse .
Of course, when I finally did go along, no one, and I genuinely mean no one gave a visible fig about what I rode or what I wore. If you could keep up, you were welcome. That was that. Its no picnic on that front either, butno snobbery regarding anything else.

What's written in the blog is of sound principle, its just that its surely been done to death by now via every social group ever, hasn't it? #obvious

imposter2.0 · December 2016

CarbonClem wrote:

What's written in the blog is of sound principle, its just that its surely been done to death by now via every social group ever, hasn't it? #obvious

Everyone except a PhD candidate, it seems...

briantrumpet · December 2016

CarbonClem wrote:

What's written in the blog is of sound principle, its just that its surely been done to death by now via every social group ever, hasn't it? #obvious

'Stating the bleedin' obvious' never seems to worry scientists too much... http://www.popsci.com/scitech/article/2 ... ms-obvious

Alex99 · December 2016

briantrumpet wrote:

CarbonClem wrote:

What's written in the blog is of sound principle, its just that its surely been done to death by now via every social group ever, hasn't it? #obvious

'Stating the bleedin' obvious' never seems to worry scientists too much... http://www.popsci.com/scitech/article/2 ... ms-obvious

"scientists don't assume how the world works; they test it"

That just about covers it.

briantrumpet · December 2016

Alex99 wrote:

briantrumpet wrote:

CarbonClem wrote:

What's written in the blog is of sound principle, its just that its surely been done to death by now via every social group ever, hasn't it? #obvious

'Stating the bleedin' obvious' never seems to worry scientists too much... http://www.popsci.com/scitech/article/2 ... ms-obvious

"scientists don't assume how the world works; they test it"

That just about covers it.

Not always

MikeBrew · December 2016

No doubt the old tw*t will cherry pick any posts that are even vaguely useful (to his agenda) and list them in a future blog as excerpts from his "research".....

# I'm only here to up the traffic to my blog #God I'm bored #Please buy stuff from Planet X, they sponsor my son

*Creosote the f'ing fence

Alex99 · December 2016

briantrumpet wrote:

Alex99 wrote:

briantrumpet wrote:

CarbonClem wrote:

What's written in the blog is of sound principle, its just that its surely been done to death by now via every social group ever, hasn't it? #obvious

'Stating the bleedin' obvious' never seems to worry scientists too much... http://www.popsci.com/scitech/article/2 ... ms-obvious

"scientists don't assume how the world works; they test it"

That just about covers it.

Not always

There are always examples of the unscientific masquerading as science and plenty of regular unintended mistakes. Science tends to fix this over time. Go science.

webboo · December 2016

MikeBrew wrote:

No doubt the old tw*t will cherry pick any posts that are even vaguely useful (to his agenda) and list them in a future blog as excerpts from his "research"..... # I'm only here to up the traffic to my blog #God I'm bored #Please buy stuff from Planet X, they sponsor my son

*Creosote the f'ing fence

He can't Creosote the fence till he has researched what is the agreed uniform for painting said fence. Might require another PHD.

Ben6899 · December 2016

Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:

Fenix wrote:

Never thought to wear crocs on a bike. Do they come with SPD fitting ? ;-)

Actually...

Boyds as well. That makes sense.

DavidJB · December 2016

wtf is this nonsense.

fat daddy · December 2016

Manm, did I suffer some directed violence at me this morning .... It wasn't pretty, I was at the lights, panting but recovering quickly, minding my own business and waiting for the yellow, when along beside me pulled up a girl on a stunning Bianchi ..... BOOM, that one hit me right in smacker .... I so wanted her bike !

victim of violence

Hinaultscrapcousin · December 2016

Ben6899 wrote:

Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:

Fenix wrote:

Never thought to wear crocs on a bike. Do they come with SPD fitting ? ;-)

Actually...

Boyds as well. That makes sense.

It's the team tw*t edition.

TonyRees123 · December 2016

Clearly a lot of negative views of just about everything related to me, my research and my blog - which is fine I can live with that. I also notice some encouraging comments. I present just one explanation of what I have witnessed based on some specific social theory. Many people will not recognise or agree with it which is also fine. The quality of my work or otherwise will be judged by my examiners in January. Thanks for ALL of your comments.

My research and the 'violence' I have witnessed

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