Giant frames... the best?

steve1978

I went to the giant shop at the weekend and had a chat with the assistant, I asked him straight out "why are the giant bikes less equipped than other brands at the same price bracket?"

His reply was it's because our frames are much better than the others. I went home and did a little research and found this video

https://youtu.be/s618QvFK0eE

Long story short is the guy in the video makes a compelling argument that they are indeed better than their competitors.

What do you think?

imposter2.0

This advert was brought to you by giant...

sloppyschleckonds

Steve1978 wrote:

I went to the giant shop at the weekend

How big was the shop?

Man Of Lard

I'm sure that some Giant frames are better than some of their competitors' frames some of the time.

Put another way : Any badge on any frame does not change the underlying quality (good, hard, indifferent) of that frame.

pinno

Holy Batshit Robin, is there a competition to see who can come up with the silliest thread topic?
Besides, I thought I had won that one.

steve1978

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

Steve1978 wrote:

I went to the giant shop at the weekend

How big was the shop?

It' was the giant shop in Liverpool city centre. Pretty big but I am sure their are bigger ones

The guy said that giant make all their own frames and that's where the money is invested. I am a bike novice so have no idea if this is guy was filling me with crap or not! He could have told me they are all hand made by the rarest Mongolian virgins! I have no experience to question him so I take it at face value then ask you kind folks

meanredspider

Steve1978 wrote:

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

Steve1978 wrote:

I went to the giant shop at the weekend

How big was the shop?

It' was the giant shop in Liverpool city centre. Pretty big but I am sure their are bigger ones

The guy said that giant make all their own frames and that's where the money is invested. I am a bike novice so have no idea if this is guy was filling me with crap or not! He could have told me they are all hand made by the rarest Mongolian virgins! I have no experience to question him so I take it at face value then ask you kind folks

What you missed in the quoted response above was the inane attempt at schoolboy humour.

Giant are really no better or worse than most of the other big brands. Many bike frames are made in the same factories using the same materials and techniques. If you're looking for a bike, now's not a bad time to pick up a good deal on a 2016 bike. Post a question about the sort of bike you're looking for and the helpful folk on the forum will post any deals they've seen and help you on deciphering the different specs.

imposter2.0

Steve1978 wrote:

He could have told me they are all hand made by the rarest Mongolian virgins! I have no experience to question him

You don't need experience - unless you genuinely were 'born yesterday', you just need to be able to think for yourself and question stuff like that.

bmxboy10

Imposter wrote:

Steve1978 wrote:

He could have told me they are all hand made by the rarest Mongolian virgins! I have no experience to question him

You don't need experience - unless you genuinely were 'born yesterday', you just need to be able to think for yourself and question stuff like that.

Right on :!:

meanredspider

Imposter wrote:

Steve1978 wrote:

He could have told me they are all hand made by the rarest Mongolian virgins! I have no experience to question him

You don't need experience - unless you genuinely were 'born yesterday', you just need to be able to think for yourself and question stuff like that.

To be fair, questioning stuff is exactly what he's done. He's come here and asked for opinion of Giant frames. Sensible thing to do. Folk complain about all the marketing guff then give newbies a hard time for being confused by it.

imposter2.0

meanredspider wrote:

To be fair, questioning stuff is exactly what he's done. He's come here and asked for opinion of Giant frames. Sensible thing to do. Folk complain about all the marketing guff then give newbies a hard time for being confused by it.

Well no, not really. I mean he should have challenged the guy in the shop, at the time. You know, the guy who actually said that sh1t.

meanredspider

Imposter wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

To be fair, questioning stuff is exactly what he's done. He's come here and asked for opinion of Giant frames. Sensible thing to do. Folk complain about all the marketing guff then give newbies a hard time for being confused by it.

Well no, not really. I mean he should have challenged the guy in the shop, at the time. You know, the guy who actually said that sh1t.

You know it's sh!t. I know it's sh!t. The OP obviously didnt - no shame in that. Take any technical hobby you don't know much about (whether that's photography, sound systems, sailing, archery, shooting or whatever) - are you going to wander into a specialist store and call out the sales staff for talking sh!t? Only someone supremely arrogant would do that.

imposter2.0

meanredspider wrote:

Take any technical hobby you don't know much about (whether that's photography, sound systems, sailing, archery, shooting or whatever) - are you going to wander into a specialist store and call out the sales staff for talking sh!t? Only someone supremely arrogant would do that.

It isn't 'arrogant' to ask for clarification. I'm surprised you think that. Let's take sailing (which I know fk-all about) - if I went to a boat show and a salesman told me I was looking at the best boat in the world, I would ask him what he meant by that. That's not arrogance, that is simply asking someone to explain themselves. I would hope most people would do the same...

meanredspider

Imposter wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

Take any technical hobby you don't know much about (whether that's photography, sound systems, sailing, archery, shooting or whatever) - are you going to wander into a specialist store and call out the sales staff for talking sh!t? Only someone supremely arrogant would do that.

It isn't 'arrogant' to ask for clarification. I'm surprised you think that. Let's take sailing (which I know fk-all about) - if I went to a boat show and a salesman told me I was looking at the best boat in the world, I would ask him what he meant by that. That's not arrogance, that is simply asking someone to explain themselves. I would hope most people would do the same...

Yup - so that salesman tells you that the boat is made is a special leading-edge factory, with extra-special processes to much higher tolerances and with much better materials than other boat companies and that their hulls are the result of of years of R&D and racing so that they are the leading-edge designs - do you believe him then? At what point, on a topic you know nothing about (and in which he's trained to sell) do you stop asking him and go and seek some independent advice?

ayjaycee

I am utterly stunned that a member of a sales team would ever make such a claim about the things that he was trying to sell.

imposter2.0

meanredspider wrote:

Yup - so that salesman tells you that the boat is made is a special leading-edge factory, with extra-special processes to much higher tolerances and with much better materials than other boat companies and that their hulls are the result of of years of R&D and racing so that they are the leading-edge designs - do you believe him then?

No, I would ask him why he thinks that is such a good thing. And then I would weigh up his words against the claims of other boat salesmen. Same as most other people would, presumably.

meanredspider wrote:

At what point, on a topic you know nothing about (and in which he's trained to sell) do you stop asking him and go and seek some independent advice?

When I was satisfied with the answers he had given me.

meanredspider

Imposter wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

Yup - so that salesman tells you that the boat is made is a special leading-edge factory, with extra-special processes to much higher tolerances and with much better materials than other boat companies and that their hulls are the result of of years of R&D and racing so that they are the leading-edge designs - do you believe him then?

No, I would ask him why he thinks that is such a good thing. And then I would weigh up his words against the claims of other boat salesmen. Same as most other people would, presumably.

meanredspider wrote:

At what point, on a topic you know nothing about (and in which he's trained to sell) do you stop asking him and go and seek some independent advice?

When I was satisfied with the answers he had given me.

So you're already weighing up his answers against someone else's. So that's easy if you're at a boat show (though I bet, if it's truly something you know nothing about, the sales people would run rings around you - that's their job) but you've wandered into the Giant boat yard. The guy tells you all about the special lay-ups of the hulls, the grades of brass they use, the cuts of teak with their special dry-aging process, and the patented varnish they use. How do you know? Wouldn't you just get onto the internet, sign into BoatRadar and ask 100's of people who know all about this stuff? What's the point of "Road Buying Advice" in your world?

sloppyschleckonds

ayjaycee wrote:

I am utterly stunned that a member of a sales team would ever make such a claim about the things that he was trying to sell.

MeanRedSpider has 7 bikes with Di2.

meanredspider

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

ayjaycee wrote:

I am utterly stunned that a member of a sales team would ever make such a claim about the things that he was trying to sell.

MeanRedSpider has 7 bikes with Di2.

I see your counting abilities match the rest of your mental capacity

pinno

Steve1978 wrote:

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

Steve1978 wrote:

I went to the giant shop at the weekend

How big was the shop?

It' was the giant shop in Liverpool city centre. Pretty big but I am sure their are bigger ones

The guy said that giant make all their own frames and that's where the money is invested. I am a bike novice so have no idea if this is guy was filling me with crap or not! He could have told me they are all hand made by the rarest Mongolian virgins! I have no experience to question him so I take it at face value then ask you kind folks

Aah, some background info...

Are you looking for something specific? Have you got a budget in mind?

imposter2.0

meanredspider wrote:

What's the point of "Road Buying Advice" in your world?

I'm going to guess at 'providing buying advice' - is that right?

Some guy gets told a suspicious claim by a salesman - but instead of challenging the salesman at the time, he goes onto the internet and asks a load of random people he has never met to validate (or otherwise) the claim being made. If you see nothing wrong with that, then that probably explains why you are being so incredibly anal about all this.

Briggo

Yes Giant frames are better, because I have one.

smoggysteve

If I were to look at which bike wins the most races I would say Specialized are the best. But bikes don't win races and when so many more teams use them than others then of course they will be successful. We are far gone from the days when 1 brand stood out above the rest. Bikes are so highly engineered that there is nothing between them but a few unique tricks like Treks decoupler system or Bianchis Counter Vail. Its a nice thing to look at and go ooooh! but it hardly makes a difference over the competition in the elite peloton.

Best just have a look about and see which pretty painted piece of carbon makes you wet and move along.

meanredspider

Imposter wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

What's the point of "Road Buying Advice" in your world?

I'm going to guess at 'providing buying advice' - is that right?

Some guy gets told a suspicious claim by a salesman - but instead of challenging the salesman at the time, he goes onto the internet and asks a load of random people he has never met to validate (or otherwise) the claim being made. If you see nothing wrong with that, then that probably explains why you are being so incredibly anal about all this.

I'm not - it's just that time-and-time-again I see well-meaning newbies come on here and ask for help in a variety of ways (some more ham-fisted than others). And, on many occasions, they're derided or they get some smart-Alec one-liner.

If we want these people to think that road cyclists are a bunch of twunts, that's the perfect way to go about it. And it is only this particular forum that's like it.

Personally, I'd like to encourage more people to jump on a bike and get riding - it'll make it better for all of us. If that means answering some simple questions, that's fine by me.

What I don't understand is why some folk feel it's better to take the time deriding someone than answer them or just ignoring the question.

bobmcstuff

I'm not sure they are worse equipped than other makers in that category such as Specialized or Trek.

Possibly worse equipped than budget brands like Planet X and Ribble.

imposter2.0

meanredspider wrote:

What I don't understand is why some folk feel it's better to take the time deriding someone than answer them or just ignoring the question.

Something to do with free speech, I think...

meanredspider

Imposter wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

What I don't understand is why some folk feel it's better to take the time deriding someone than answer them or just ignoring the question.

Something to do with free speech, I think...

Of course - and, as far as I'm concerned, if deriding people is what you want to do, fill yer boots...

Anonymous

Just because you have the right to be a prick, donesnt mean to have to exercise it?

imposter2.0

meanredspider wrote:

Of course - and, as far as I'm concerned, if deriding people is what you want to do, fill yer boots...

Except I haven't derided anyone - I simply pointed out the fallacy of the question, which is something quite different. I'm not surprised that you would interpret that as 'derision' though.

meanredspider

meanredspider wrote:

Imposter wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

What I don't understand is why some folkfeel it's better to take the time deriding someone than answer them or just ignoring the question.

Something to do with free speech, I think...

Of course - and, as far as I'm concerned, if deriding people is what you want to do, fill yer boots...

Imposter wrote:

Except I haven't derided anyone - I simply pointed out the fallacy of the question, which is something quite different. I'm not surprised that you would interpret that as 'derision' though.

I don't think I said you had derided anyone. I just agreed you were free to.

How I interpreted it isn't important. Though I do think that there are some folk on here who would register on the Asperger's spectrum judging by their idea of communication.

Beatmaker

Whilst I wouldn't say that Giant frames are better than other brands, their manufacturing facilities are certainly amongst some of the best. On top of their own range, Giant do contract manufacturing for a nunber of other brands, including 'premium' brands such as Colnago.