Mobile phones and driving

slowbike

Rolf F wrote:

Hands free kit should really be illegal (the selling and using of it) - what possible purpose is there for it?

I'm going to have to put my hands up (no pun intended) and say that I do use the handsfree kit in the car. Mostly to talk to my wife either after I've dropped our child off at whereever he's going today or when she's picked him up in the evening.
There's no real need to talk right there and then - it could wait 20 minutes until we get to where we're going.

I don't think it significantly distracts us from driving though - if it did then we wouldn't do it. It's not as though the roads are tricky to navigate or particularly busy - if I was going through town it might be a bit different.

ballysmate

mamba80 wrote:

Ballysmate wrote:

bompington wrote:

All true: there is no doubt that it's dangerous and deserves to be clobbered heavily and policed intensively.

But here's a thought. Mobile phone use while driving has, incontestably, risen from zero to "simply amazing how many" in the course of the last twenty years or so. So accident statistics must also have done, right? :?

Accident injury stats for last 20 years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reported_ ... at_Britain

I m sure that these somewhat false stat's will be of comfort to the remains of their family! read the criticism of this report Bally, Specifically the unreported stats, gathered from NHS admissions.

Also, deaths and injury attributed to m'phone use is very much on the rise, soon will be higher than DD deaths.

there is no possible reason for using a phone whilst driving, so like DD the penalties should be similar, it will happen, just a matter of when......

Mamba, I posted these stats as I found Bompy's comment interesting, not to excuse dangerous actions or to belittle the family's anguish.

fenix

Slowbike - its been tested that it does distract you. Some people also think that alcohol doesn't affect their driving....

If you dont need to talk to your wife on the phone - save it for later. You'd never forgive yourself if you killed or maimed a kid as you were chatting about tea.

rolf_f

Slowbike wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

Hands free kit should really be illegal (the selling and using of it) - what possible purpose is there for it?

I'm going to have to put my hands up (no pun intended) and say that I do use the handsfree kit in the car. Mostly to talk to my wife either after I've dropped our child off at whereever he's going today or when she's picked him up in the evening.
There's no real need to talk right there and then - it could wait 20 minutes until we get to where we're going.

I don't think it significantly distracts us from driving though - if it did then we wouldn't do it. It's not as though the roads are tricky to navigate or particularly busy - if I was going through town it might be a bit different.

So I think that what you are saying is that it wouldn't matter to you if hands-free kit was made illegal. It's there so you use it - if it wasn't you wouldn't. Your perception that it doesn't distract you is probably the same perception that people who use mobile phones without hands free have. Until you actually go and test your perception in a simulator you don't know whether it is justified or not.

slowbike

Fenix wrote:

Slowbike - its been tested that it does distract you. Some people also think that alcohol doesn't affect their driving....

If you dont need to talk to your wife on the phone - save it for later. You'd never forgive yourself if you killed or maimed a kid as you were chatting about tea.

yup - I'm re-thinking our communications !

I didn't say it didn't distract me/us - just (IMHO) not significantly - but perhaps that's still not good enough. In mitigation - it's a conversation with my wife who I've known for the majority of my life - if either of us need to concentrate on the road then we cut the conversation - there's no etiquette to worry about. IMHO I'm no more distracted whilst talking to her on the phone than if she was in the car with me or listening to the radio or thinking about something else - but I don't want to be proved wrong.

So how many others like me - think we're driving safely for the conditions - but perhaps we're not as safe as we think we are?

fenix

TBH until I saw the tests that showed hands free was as distracting - I wasn't too worried about using the phone on the go - but now I'm a changed person. Mythbusters actually verified the studies too so you might be able to find that online to entertain you.

slowbike

Rolf F wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

Hands free kit should really be illegal (the selling and using of it) - what possible purpose is there for it?

I'm going to have to put my hands up (no pun intended) and say that I do use the handsfree kit in the car. Mostly to talk to my wife either after I've dropped our child off at whereever he's going today or when she's picked him up in the evening.
There's no real need to talk right there and then - it could wait 20 minutes until we get to where we're going.

I don't think it significantly distracts us from driving though - if it did then we wouldn't do it. It's not as though the roads are tricky to navigate or particularly busy - if I was going through town it might be a bit different.

So I think that what you are saying is that it wouldn't matter to you if hands-free kit was made illegal. It's there so you use it - if it wasn't you wouldn't. Your perception that it doesn't distract you is probably the same perception that people who use mobile phones without hands free have. Until you actually go and test your perception in a simulator you don't know whether it is justified or not.

I also drive a camper van - no hands free kit - so I don't use the phone - unless I prepair and put a headphone in - and then it's only to answer it because voice dialing is just so cr4p.
If using the mobile in the car whatever was made illegal then I'd stop - I wouldn't nescersarily agree with the law - but I'd abide by it.
It's a bit like speed limits - they're pretty arbitary - I've seen stretches of national limit reduced to 30mph over a few years - the road hasn't changed - the requirement for people to drive significantly slower is due to the short periods of time, most sensible people would drive accordingly - but too many drive to the speed limit (or just above) no matter what the conditions, so the law is changed to fit the lowest common demoninator.

Is talking on a mobile whilst holding it dangerous - yes - you can't quickly put the phone down if you need both hands.
Is talking on a mobile on handsfree dangerous - to an extent as has been said earlier in this thread - the other party can't see what's going on and may carry on a conversation when the driver needs to concentrate on the road instead.
Is talking to a passenger dangerous? Yes - to an extent - they are not nescersarily concentrating on the road as much as the driver - or may perceive the dangers differently.
Is listening to the radio dangerous? Yes - because it occupies the drivers mind - either listening to the presenters or singing along to the tune.

yet millions of car journeys are made every day without drama - so whilst it is dangerous to do the above - it's only dangerous to degrees - if you're on a remote Scottish road, then I dare say you're pretty safe to pick up your mobile (although just as illegal) - because there's nothing around you for miles - but you would be pretty stupid to do that in the middle of London - especially when you're driving east along with 0000's of cyclists heading to RL100 like I witnessed this year!

fenix

And yet people still manage to kill themselves on empty roads...

Lookyhere

Slowbike wrote:

Fenix wrote:

Slowbike - its been tested that it does distract you. Some people also think that alcohol doesn't affect their driving....

If you dont need to talk to your wife on the phone - save it for later. You'd never forgive yourself if you killed or maimed a kid as you were chatting about tea.

yup - I'm re-thinking our communications !

I didn't say it didn't distract me/us - just (IMHO) not significantly - but perhaps that's still not good enough. In mitigation - it's a conversation with my wife who I've known for the majority of my life - if either of us need to concentrate on the road then we cut the conversation - there's no etiquette to worry about. IMHO I'm no more distracted whilst talking to her on the phone than if she was in the car with me or listening to the radio or thinking about something else - but I don't want to be proved wrong.

So how many others like me - think we're driving safely for the conditions - but perhaps we're not as safe as we think we are?

I stopped using a MB with bluetooth hands free, when chatting to a work colleague and heading for the return ferry @ roscof, i turned left across the path of a motorcyclist, my GF screamed at me and i did stop...just... but i could so easily have killed or seriously injured him/her.

Nowadays whilst driving, the phone stays on Airplane mode, the person your chatting too doesnt know what hazards you are negotiating, where as a passenger would (or would pick up on that you ve stopped talking), so the conversation tends to pause and in my case the passenger undoubtedly saved this bikers day.

slowbike

Fenix wrote:

TBH until I saw the tests that showed hands free was as distracting - I wasn't too worried about using the phone on the go - but now I'm a changed person. Mythbusters actually verified the studies too so you might be able to find that online to entertain you.

http://www.discovery.com/tv-shows/mythb ... -minimyth/

Interesting.
However, IMHO the test is flawed.

The drivers were asked to drive an unfamiliar car, in an unfamiliar environment whilst following GPS instructions and talking on the phone (handsfree or not). The video showed driving in a city environment.

Most of us are not driving unfamiliar vehicles, in an unfamiliar environment whilst trying to follow intricate GPS instructions. For example - my drive is in a car I've had for years on a road I know every bump (because I ride it too) and it's a country A road - there are no directions to follow - I turn right onto the road and 9 miles later I turn left off it - albeit with twists and turns on route. It's fairly unusual to see cyclists on the road and other than a couple of places you never see pedestrians - so the "obstacles" are minimal.
Because I know the road, the driving of it is pretty automatic, so I can turn my attention to the potential dangers - I know where they're most likely to be.

But - put me in the same car, driving through London and it would be totally different - I don't know London so would need to concentrate on directions, being in the right lane and the far greater concentration of obstacles. Forget holding a conversation with a passenger, let alone using a phone!

rolf_f

Slowbike wrote:

yet millions of car journeys are made every day without drama - so whilst it is dangerous to do the above - it's only dangerous to degrees - if you're on a remote Scottish road, then I dare say you're pretty safe to pick up your mobile (although just as illegal) - because there's nothing around you for miles - but you would be pretty stupid to do that in the middle of London - especially when you're driving east along with 0000's of cyclists heading to RL100 like I witnessed this year!

Trouble is with this is you are putting the decision as to whether or not using a phone is safe in the hands of the driver who commonly gets it wrong - eg Lookyhere's post; a simple ban makes things much simpler. There are of course lots of things that impact on the safeness of your driving (eg the presence of the passenger who may be a good thing or a distraction) but the thing about the phone call is that the solution really is incredibly simple. You stop and park and have the phone conversation. That way, there is no risk and no negative outcomes - unless you determine that avoiding arriving a couple of minutes later is a price worth compromising safety over.

slowbike

Rolf F wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

yet millions of car journeys are made every day without drama - so whilst it is dangerous to do the above - it's only dangerous to degrees - if you're on a remote Scottish road, then I dare say you're pretty safe to pick up your mobile (although just as illegal) - because there's nothing around you for miles - but you would be pretty stupid to do that in the middle of London - especially when you're driving east along with 0000's of cyclists heading to RL100 like I witnessed this year!

Trouble is with this is you are putting the decision as to whether or not using a phone is safe in the hands of the driver who commonly gets it wrong - eg Lookyhere's post; a simple ban makes things much simpler. There are of course lots of things that impact on the safeness of your driving (eg the presence of the passenger who may be a good thing or a distraction) but the thing about the phone call is that the solution really is incredibly simple. You stop and park and have the phone conversation. That way, there is no risk and no negative outcomes - unless you determine that avoiding arriving a couple of minutes later is a price worth compromising safety over.

Yes - I agree - although I disagree with the "commonly" - if we looked at the statistics of phone calls to accidents it would likely show that the majority of calls do not result in an accident - so was it wrong?

Of course, your assertion that it's incredibly simple is true - yes - remove the phone and you remove _that_ distraction - but a passenger can be distracting as can the radio or a conversation you had with a colleague earlier - so you've removed one distraction only to be left with countless others - the risk is still there because the driver isn't concentrating - and you're not going to change that. I'd hazard a guess that most commutes are done on "autopilot" - you know where you're going, you know the speed restrictions, you can adjust your speed to the vehicle in front - you know where the hazards are and where they're not (usually) - so you just drive. Then once in a while you're caught out by the unexpected - most of the time it won't result in a collision - but sometimes it does.

I do agree with the ban on using handheld devices whilst driving - having done it myself (before it was illegal) I can see how it impares your driving because it removes a limb from your immeadiate disposal.
Currently I disagree with a ban on using handsfree phones - but I'd support education into how it can distract drivers and therefore when it is more or less appropriate to use it.

The whole thing of accidents is bigger than "were they on the phone" or not - using devices or being on the phone might be the cause of that accident, but the accident may well have occured anyway because the driver would've been as distracted by listening to "desert island discs" and picturing themselves on a sandy beach somewhere hot and sunny with a cold beer in their hands ...

Lookyhere

Slowbike wrote:

Fenix wrote:

TBH until I saw the tests that showed hands free was as distracting - I wasn't too worried about using the phone on the go - but now I'm a changed person. Mythbusters actually verified the studies too so you might be able to find that online to entertain you.

http://www.discovery.com/tv-shows/mythb ... -minimyth/

Interesting.
However, IMHO the test is flawed.

The drivers were asked to drive an unfamiliar car, in an unfamiliar environment whilst following GPS instructions and talking on the phone (handsfree or not). The video showed driving in a city environment.

Most of us are not driving unfamiliar vehicles, in an unfamiliar environment whilst trying to follow intricate GPS instructions. For example - my drive is in a car I've had for years on a road I know every bump (because I ride it too) and it's a country A road - there are no directions to follow - I turn right onto the road and 9 miles later I turn left off it - albeit with twists and turns on route. It's fairly unusual to see cyclists on the road and other than a couple of places you never see pedestrians - so the "obstacles" are minimal.
Because I know the road, the driving of it is pretty automatic, so I can turn my attention to the potential dangers - I know where they're most likely to be.

But - put me in the same car, driving through London and it would be totally different - I don't know London so would need to concentrate on directions, being in the right lane and the far greater concentration of obstacles. Forget holding a conversation with a passenger, let alone using a phone!

i used to think the same as you but the incident with the M/C woke me up from such complacency, my actions could have robbed children of their father, a mother of her son, made someone a widow, this is the reality of a simple mistake, caused by lack of attention.
Prior to this, having ridden and raced M/c's for many years, been on various driving course, i considered my self a competent driver.

It is the unusual that catches you out, not the usual, you do sound as if you (subconsciously) switch off when you r on your car journey.

DeVlaeminck

Slowbike wrote:

Interesting.
However, IMHO the test is flawed.

The drivers were asked to drive an unfamiliar car, in an unfamiliar environment whilst following GPS instructions and talking on the phone (handsfree or not). The video showed driving in a city environment.

Well there have been several pieces of research so the evidence is pretty conclusive. It isn't just about not having one hand free to control the car it's about the way the brain works and how a conversation with a hands free can make you lose concentration on driving. There is plenty on the internet just a google away about this.

Driving with a hands free is putting other people at risk.

slowbike

Lookyhere wrote:

It is the unusual that catches you out, not the usual, you do sound as if you (subconsciously) switch off when you r on your car journey.

Yes - totally agree - I try not to "switch off" though - on any journey. I have driven on automatic - motorway/dual carriageway commutes - you get to the end and do not recall any of the intervening miles - and this is before the days of mobiles, so can't blame them!

I'm just trying to openly and honestly discuss the distractions to driving to recognise the cause of accidents.

I've had 3 crunches in over 25 years of driving - all my mistakes.
First one was pulling out across two lanes of traffic - didn't see the van speeding in the outside lane - no excuse I should've waited till I could see the lane was clear.
Second was rolling into the car in front from stationery - no damage - we were waiting to go through a control point and I'd assumed the road was flat - released the foot brake but not put on the handbrake ... doh!
Third was another rear ender - coming out of a sliproad onto a dual carriageway - I judged there to be enough room for us to go - the first car in the line changed their mind. It would've been ok had the road not been slippery (ice).

When driving to a new destination it's not unusual for me/us to have the radio on or music playing - but it's turned down/off when the road/navigation becomes more demanding - removing distractions.
I don't recall a time when driving using handsfree mobile where I've had to cut the conversation - hanging up isn't as simple as pressing a single button so I (think I) tend to just stop talking/listening.

Like you say - it's the unexpected that catches you out - you have to balance the possibility of the unexpected with the practicalities of making progress - you can't drive around at 5 miles an hour just in case a child runs across the road - that may be sensible outside a school or playground or passing the school bus that's stopped - but on an open road with high banks, no footpath and away from houses/schools the probability of a child running across the road is practically zero - so you don't concentrate on that possibility - you look for the more likely candidates - wildlife, cyclists, sometimes hikers - that way you can make reasonable progress safely.

slowbike

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

Interesting.
However, IMHO the test is flawed.

The drivers were asked to drive an unfamiliar car, in an unfamiliar environment whilst following GPS instructions and talking on the phone (handsfree or not). The video showed driving in a city environment.

Well there have been several pieces of research so the evidence is pretty conclusive. It isn't just about not having one hand free to control the car it's about the way the brain works and how a conversation with a hands free can make you lose concentration on driving. There is plenty on the internet just a google away about this.

Driving with a hands free is putting other people at risk.

I don't disagree with the distraction - just the emphasis on the method of distraction and peoples ability to recognise when they need to turn off that distraction.

slowbike

Lookyhere wrote:

i used to think the same as you but the incident with the M/C woke me up from such complacency, my actions could have robbed children of their father, a mother of her son, made someone a widow, this is the reality of a simple mistake, caused by lack of attention.

Come on then - tell us about your incident. I'm not aiming to be judgemental, I'm just curious as to what caused the incident.

rolf_f

Slowbike wrote:

Of course, your assertion that it's incredibly simple is true - yes - remove the phone and you remove _that_ distraction - but a passenger can be distracting as can the radio or a conversation you had with a colleague earlier - so you've removed one distraction only to be left with countless others - the risk is still there because the driver isn't concentrating - and you're not going to change that. I'd hazard a guess that most commutes are done on "autopilot" - you know where you're going, you know the speed restrictions, you can adjust your speed to the vehicle in front - you know where the hazards are and where they're not (usually) - so you just drive. Then once in a while you're caught out by the unexpected - most of the time it won't result in a collision - but sometimes it does.

I do agree with the ban on using handheld devices whilst driving - having done it myself (before it was illegal) I can see how it impares your driving because it removes a limb from your immeadiate disposal.
Currently I disagree with a ban on using handsfree phones - but I'd support education into how it can distract drivers and therefore when it is more or less appropriate to use it.

The whole thing of accidents is bigger than "were they on the phone" or not - using devices or being on the phone might be the cause of that accident, but the accident may well have occured anyway because the driver would've been as distracted by listening to "desert island discs" and picturing themselves on a sandy beach somewhere hot and sunny with a cold beer in their hands ...

I did say myself earlier that a passenger can be a help or a hindrance. As for the radio - for me that is a bit like doodling; it distracts the mind enough to stop it from wandering off somewhere else entirely and therefore enables me to concentrate on the task in hand. In an ideal world, we'd function best with no distractions and in an empty car but the practicalities of life and our mental limitations get in the way of that and it's difficult/impossible to find a solution. The phone, in contrast, is dead easy - don't do it. You've made some good points why other things add to the distraction but, so far, I don't think you've come up with a single reason why you can't just stop the car when you need/want to talk on the phone.

dinyull

Thing is, accidents like this are only going to happen more often. Sadly.

Most people driving using their phones now have only been using a mobile phone for about 15 years - kids these days (and I'm not blaming kids for this case) are basically brought up by a phone or tablet from the age of 2-3. It can only get worse. Cycling to and from work I pass a college and 2 big Uni's - you see 17/18 year olds in brand new Fiat 500's etc all on their chuffing phones.

Bring in a 30 day ban for using a phone, that would scare a lot more than a fine that daddy will pay.

slowbike

Rolf F wrote:

I did say myself earlier that a passenger can be a help or a hindrance. As for the radio - for me that is a bit like doodling; it distracts the mind enough to stop it from wandering off somewhere else entirely and therefore enables me to concentrate on the task in hand. In an ideal world, we'd function best with no distractions and in an empty car but the practicalities of life and our mental limitations get in the way of that and it's difficult/impossible to find a solution. The phone, in contrast, is dead easy - don't do it. You've made some good points why other things add to the distraction but, so far, I don't think you've come up with a single reason why you can't just stop the car when you need/want to talk on the phone.

Passenger - help/hindrance - yes - my wife is a good passenger - we can hold a conversation quite happily or sit in silence and if I need to concentrate she'll shut up or she'll help with pointing out something I may not have seen and/or directions. My son - useless - he's just a distraction - obviously the last 16 months of training haven't been enough. Well - in just over 16 years when he starts to drive he'll understand!

Radio - can be both - if it's music I can tune out easily, if it's conversation then it's not so easy - however, it's quick to mute it. I don't think it aids concentration.

Phone conversation - it's like radio to me - my calls are with my wife - who as I said, I've known for most of my life - if I stop talking she's not going to throw a hissy fit. If it was a technical call about work then I know I'd need to concentrate more on that so it wouldn't happen whilst driving.

Think about rally drivers - they are at the pinnacle of driving - extreme speed, extreme concentration - could they drive that whilst distracted by the radio or phone? Yes of course they could, just not at the speed they do with full concentration.
Think about riding your bike - are you always concentrating on absolutely everything that's going on around you - or do you sometimes look at the views or check your cycle computer?

Driving isn't nescesarily a 100% concentration task. There are times when you need to concentrate more, but the majority of it is mundane - until you get the unexpected - but is it reasonable to always expect the unexpected?

Lookyhere

Slowbike wrote:

Lookyhere wrote:

i used to think the same as you but the incident with the M/C woke me up from such complacency, my actions could have robbed children of their father, a mother of her son, made someone a widow, this is the reality of a simple mistake, caused by lack of attention.

Come on then - tell us about your incident. I'm not aiming to be judgemental, I'm just curious as to what caused the incident.

i explained all that earlier, look at the bottom of page 2, you r obviously on the phone and not concentrating.....

fenix

Slowbike - they were only doing their fun study in response to other studies that proved it. I'm not saying mythbusters have the definitive test, Its only entertainment,

rolf_f

Lookyhere wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

Lookyhere wrote:

i used to think the same as you but the incident with the M/C woke me up from such complacency, my actions could have robbed children of their father, a mother of her son, made someone a widow, this is the reality of a simple mistake, caused by lack of attention.

Come on then - tell us about your incident. I'm not aiming to be judgemental, I'm just curious as to what caused the incident.

i explained all that earlier, look at the bottom of page 2, you r obviously on the phone and not concentrating.....

Lol! It's probably also why he missed my request to come up with a reason why he actually needs to use the phone while driving in the first place.

Fenix wrote:

Slowbike - they were only doing their fun study in response to other studies that proved it. I'm not saying mythbusters have the definitive test, Its only entertainment,

Nobody should regard Mythbusters as science but it does at least do a reasonable job of providing circumstantial evidence!

slowbike

Lookyhere wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

Lookyhere wrote:

i used to think the same as you but the incident with the M/C woke me up from such complacency, my actions could have robbed children of their father, a mother of her son, made someone a widow, this is the reality of a simple mistake, caused by lack of attention.

Come on then - tell us about your incident. I'm not aiming to be judgemental, I'm just curious as to what caused the incident.

i explained all that earlier, look at the bottom of page 2, you r obviously on the phone and not concentrating.....

I missed it during my phrantic posting ...
So what do you think caused you not to check your mirrors? Were you indicating? was it reasonable for the rider to come up the inside of you? What was the nature of your conversation with your colleague? If you weren't talking with him would you have checked your mirrors - or would you have assumed it safe to go left because you'd been indicating and were travelling at a reasonable pace?

slowbike

Rolf F wrote:

Lookyhere wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

Lookyhere wrote:

i used to think the same as you but the incident with the M/C woke me up from such complacency, my actions could have robbed children of their father, a mother of her son, made someone a widow, this is the reality of a simple mistake, caused by lack of attention.

Come on then - tell us about your incident. I'm not aiming to be judgemental, I'm just curious as to what caused the incident.

i explained all that earlier, look at the bottom of page 2, you r obviously on the phone and not concentrating.....

Lol! It's probably also why he missed my request to come up with a reason why he actually needs to use the phone while driving in the first place.

I didn't provide a reason for needing to use the phone because there isn't one. Any more than there is a need to listen to the radio, answer the questions on the quiz or sing along to the tunes playing - or think about what I've got to do at work today (other than answer threads on using mobile phones whilst driving).

I quite clearly stated that they are all distractions - it's a distraction that removes concentration from the road and raises the potential for an accident - driving without due care and attention I believe ...

I'm challenging the assertion that having a handsfree conversation constitutes a signficant distraction in enough circumstances that it should be banned outright.
I feel that if we go down that route then we start the process of banning anything and everything that is remotely dangerous because we can't trust drivers to make responsible decisions on how to drive their car.

Ultimately this will become a non-issue when driverless vehicles become established and controlling a vehicle becomes illegal - then we can do wtf we like in the vehicle.

slowbike

Fenix wrote:

Slowbike - they were only doing their fun study in response to other studies that proved it. I'm not saying mythbusters have the definitive test, Its only entertainment,

It was interesting - not from the point of proving anything, but highlighting the whys behind the failures.

As a child I used to go around to my Nan's place and we'd do things like knitting or crochet (yes I'm a bloke - it's just what we did - there's still an owl about somewhere that I made) - I'd have to concentrate on what I was doing because I was learning to knit - my Nan could knit whilst watching the TV, cooking dinner, supervising us kids and teaching me how to knit - and she'd be knitting faster than me.

This isn't unusual - a task we're accustomed to doing requires far less concentration - why are learner drivers slow?
Because they're learning the co-ordination between hand and foot movement whilst learning to read the road around them - they can't process the information quickly and efficently so need total concentration - meanwhile, a driver with experience can drive the same road with far less effort as they are accustomed to the task of driving - co-ordination of hands and feet are automatic as they've done it for years.

Lookyhere

Slowbike wrote:

Lookyhere wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

Lookyhere wrote:

i used to think the same as you but the incident with the M/C woke me up from such complacency, my actions could have robbed children of their father, a mother of her son, made someone a widow, this is the reality of a simple mistake, caused by lack of attention.

Come on then - tell us about your incident. I'm not aiming to be judgemental, I'm just curious as to what caused the incident.

i explained all that earlier, look at the bottom of page 2, you r obviously on the phone and not concentrating.....

I missed it during my phrantic posting ...
So what do you think caused you not to check your mirrors? Were you indicating? was it reasonable for the rider to come up the inside of you? What was the nature of your conversation with your colleague? If you weren't talking with him would you have checked your mirrors - or would you have assumed it safe to go left because you'd been indicating and were travelling at a reasonable pace?

No he wasnt filtering.
i was driving on the right (as i was in france) and indicating left, to turn into the port. he was oncoming, i was so distracted by the phone call (a call involving the following days work) that i just carried on with my turn without looking.... had i not stopped and he taken evasive action, he d have gone straight into the front/side of my car.

Obviously i cant be 100% certain that i wouldnt have done exactly the same thing if i d not been on the phone but according to my GF i seemed more interested in the call than the driving, also, when looked back at the incident at the time, i wasnt really aware of what i was doing, so i couldnt recall if i d checked what was behind me or in front, i just did the move, my mind just wasnt on the job in hand.
so i m convinced it was the phone call that caused this lack of attention.

slowbike

Lookyhere wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

Lookyhere wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

Lookyhere wrote:

i used to think the same as you but the incident with the M/C woke me up from such complacency, my actions could have robbed children of their father, a mother of her son, made someone a widow, this is the reality of a simple mistake, caused by lack of attention.

Come on then - tell us about your incident. I'm not aiming to be judgemental, I'm just curious as to what caused the incident.

i explained all that earlier, look at the bottom of page 2, you r obviously on the phone and not concentrating.....

I missed it during my phrantic posting ...
So what do you think caused you not to check your mirrors? Were you indicating? was it reasonable for the rider to come up the inside of you? What was the nature of your conversation with your colleague? If you weren't talking with him would you have checked your mirrors - or would you have assumed it safe to go left because you'd been indicating and were travelling at a reasonable pace?

No he wasnt filtering.
i was driving on the right (as i was in france) and indicating left, to turn into the port. he was oncoming, i was so distracted by the phone call (a call involving the following days work) that i just carried on with my turn without looking.... had i not stopped and he taken evasive action, he d have gone straight into the front/side of my car.

Obviously i cant be 100% certain that i wouldnt have done exactly the same thing if i d not been on the phone but according to my GF i seemed more interested in the call than the driving, also, when looked back at the incident at the time, i wasnt really aware of what i was doing, so i couldnt recall if i d checked what was behind me or in front, i just did the move, my mind just wasnt on the job in hand.
so i m convinced it was the phone call that caused this lack of attention.

Ah - yes Roscoff = France - Duh!

yup - if you say you were more interested in your phone call than driving then clearly that conversation shouldn't have happened at that point - but it could equally have been a conversation with your GF on what you were going to eat on the boat or what movie you were going to watch on the crossing that distracted you - you were distracted and hadn't recognised the fact that you were distracted.

I get Rolf F's point of did the phone call NEED to take place - but that's a whole different kettle of fish - did you need to blink, breath, scratch your nose, wind down the window, check your mirror or whatever distracted you at that point - there's a lot of things in life we do that we don't need to do - but life would be pretty boring if we didn't. Eg I don't need to look at the stunning scenery whilst riding home the long way - but that's partly why I go that way.
I don't need to post on here - but it's nice to "chat" with others - even if we don't entirely agree on some subjects.

Lookyhere

Slowbike wrote:

Lookyhere wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

Lookyhere wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

Lookyhere wrote:

i used to think the same as you but the incident with the M/C woke me up from such complacency, my actions could have robbed children of their father, a mother of her son, made someone a widow, this is the reality of a simple mistake, caused by lack of attention.

Come on then - tell us about your incident. I'm not aiming to be judgemental, I'm just curious as to what caused the incident.

i explained all that earlier, look at the bottom of page 2, you r obviously on the phone and not concentrating.....

I missed it during my phrantic posting ...
So what do you think caused you not to check your mirrors? Were you indicating? was it reasonable for the rider to come up the inside of you? What was the nature of your conversation with your colleague? If you weren't talking with him would you have checked your mirrors - or would you have assumed it safe to go left because you'd been indicating and were travelling at a reasonable pace?

No he wasnt filtering.
i was driving on the right (as i was in france) and indicating left, to turn into the port. he was oncoming, i was so distracted by the phone call (a call involving the following days work) that i just carried on with my turn without looking.... had i not stopped and he taken evasive action, he d have gone straight into the front/side of my car.

Obviously i cant be 100% certain that i wouldnt have done exactly the same thing if i d not been on the phone but according to my GF i seemed more interested in the call than the driving, also, when looked back at the incident at the time, i wasnt really aware of what i was doing, so i couldnt recall if i d checked what was behind me or in front, i just did the move, my mind just wasnt on the job in hand.
so i m convinced it was the phone call that caused this lack of attention.

Ah - yes Roscoff = France - Duh!

yup - if you say you were more interested in your phone call than driving then clearly that conversation shouldn't have happened at that point - but it could equally have been a conversation with your GF on what you were going to eat on the boat or what movie you were going to watch on the crossing that distracted you - you were distracted and hadn't recognised the fact that you were distracted.

its known though isnt it? going abstract is pointless, i cant control any that but i can NOT use my phone in the car.

when you either hit something/someone or have a near miss, whilst on the phone, then you might understand.

slowbike

I've hit them without being on the phone. I stand by my assertion that it's not a black and white "on the phone" that causes the incident - it's being distracted and not looking where they're going. Be that because the

Using your phone handsfree whilst driving isn't dangerous persay - it's being distracted that's dangerous - if we blanket ban using handsfree whilst driving then the assumption is that anything that isn't banned is safe - but it isn't as I've repeatedly given examples.

I've been thinking (whilst driving) how we can reduce the use of mobiles without police enforcement - easy way would be to block mobile signals - but that doesn't stop someone using it for music playlist - and it's a bit unfair on passengers - which was then I thought about what we're trying to achieve - we're trying to get the driver to concentrate on what they're doing - whilst we can remove distractions we cannot force people to concentrate.