Mobile phones and driving

mamba80

the recent news about the lorry driver who killed 3 children and their mother whilst using a smart phone must surely bring about a change in the law (and enforcement)
i think we need to bring in a min 12month ban, exactly the same as Drink Driving.

btw the 10 year sentence is derisory, he ll be out in 5 and driving again in 7, not much for killing 4 people is it.

pblakeney

Bring on driverless cars, and black boxes for those who insist on driving.
Oh, and invest in your local race track. There be money there in the future.

smoggysteve

I can't help but think that had he hit and killed a cyclist instead of cars full of people he would have got a few hundred pounds fine.

Bobbinogs

You could make it a hanging offence and still many people would do it as the risk of getting caught seems to be slightly less than zero. I often walk through town to work and when I have to stop at a junction it is simply amazing how many cars go past with drivers holding a phone. The latest craze seems to be to have the phone on speaker...but then hold it which kinda overlooks the whole handsfree bit.

With the prevalence of smart phones now this problem will just get worse and worse as the temptation to use the damn thing grows.

mr_goo

After attending a driver awareness course at Dorset's finest (not mobile offence) it was pointed out that even hands free reduces the attention and road awareness of the driver by upto 50%.
Just don't do it. Simple. Nothing is that important that you have to use the phone whilst driving.

guy.spartacus

When driving it is painfully obvious when someone is using their phone

I was driving home yesterday on the M25 and there was an absolute whalloper in the middle lane doing 50 mph and weaving from side to side. I flashed my ligths at him from lane 1, suggesting he should pull in to the empty lane on his left. No response.

I pulled out behind him, flashed again - nothing.

Drove alongside him (in the overtaking lane) - he's looking down with occasional glances up to correct his direction, at 50 miles an hour with lorries now undertaking him.

I honked my horn - it took him about 5 seconds to work out where he'd been honked from, glancing all over the place. He finally made eye contact long enough for me to demonstrate what I thought of him using international sign language.

He instantly accelerated up to at least 90mph as if to prove something.

IDIOT

bompington

All true: there is no doubt that it's dangerous and deserves to be clobbered heavily and policed intensively.

But here's a thought. Mobile phone use while driving has, incontestably, risen from zero to "simply amazing how many" in the course of the last twenty years or so. So accident statistics must also have done, right? :?

veronese68

Mr Goo wrote:

it was pointed out that even hands free reduces the attention and road awareness of the driver by upto 50%.

I've heard this before, and I do believe it, but I don't understand how it is different to talking to someone that is in the car. Apparently there is a marked difference between the two. Is it becasue if the person is in the car and the driver is negotiating a roundabout or something there is a pause in the onversation as everyone is aware of what's going on, obviously on a hands free the other person wouldn't know what's happening so would carry on regardless.
But yes, drives me up the wall. It needs to be socially unacceptable in the way drink driving is now. See so much of it. Recently negotiating a diversion due to road closure caused by a fatal accident and as I'm passing the slow moving traffic I'm aware of the car in front drifting out, sure enough he's texting. I shout to get off his phone hoping one of the many policemen there would do something, obviously not.

haydenm

I use my hands free all the time for work when I'm driving, mainly when people are calling me though (I like the time away to think). If handsfree sets were banned I'd never get any work done, plus it would be even harder to enforce. Looking at your phone when driving is pretty unacceptable though, the amount of people I see weaving down the motorway is amazing, cars and lorries alike.

EDIT: watching the in car video of the crash I find myself feeling very sorry for the driver, I know what he was doing was totally stupid but it's all too easy to imagine the feeling when he realises he is about to crash. Imagine that then getting out to realise you have killed a family, horrible

capt_slog

Veronese68 wrote:

I shout to get off his phone hoping one of the many policemen there would do something, obviously not.

I was following a car home one night where the woman driving had been on the phone for around 15 minutes. Her course took her through a very busy motoway junction, lights, and many turns. We eventually arrived in the village where I live, and there walking along the pavement were two police officers. I used the horn and shouted to them that the driver in front was on the phone. Out came the notebooks, and they took down my registration number. :roll:


A mate of my colleague was passionately opposed to people using the phone whilst driving and quite prepared to take direct action. He once was on the inside lane at some lights when he saw the driver next to him on the phone, so he tapped on the window to tell him to desist. The window came down and was told to ************** etc. So he reached out and ripped off the chap's the door mirror, and threw it into the car. He then pointed to his watch and said "The time is 12.35, report me". Oddly he heard no more about it.

mamba80

HaydenM wrote:

EDIT: watching the in car video of the crash I find myself feeling very sorry for the driver, I know what he was doing was totally stupid but it's all too easy to imagine the feeling when he realises he is about to crash. Imagine that then getting out to realise you have killed a family, horrible

i have read some pretty stupid remarks on this forum but this one is by far the most stupid.

Easy to feel sorry for guy who was scrolling through his Spotify and then drives into the back of a line of cars, killing 4 people, 3 children who will never have a future..... yeah my heart fcuking bleeds for him, maybe we could have BR whip round ?
Maybe you should instead imagine the father and try and feel sorry for him?

Bobbinogs

HaydenM wrote:

I use my hands free all the time for work when I'm driving, mainly when people are calling me though (I like the time away to think). If handsfree sets were banned I'd never get any work done, plus it would be even harder to enforce. Looking at your phone when driving is pretty unacceptable though, the amount of people I see weaving down the motorway is amazing, cars and lorries alike.

EDIT: watching the in car video of the crash I find myself feeling very sorry for the driver, I know what he was doing was totally stupid but it's all too easy to imagine the feeling when he realises he is about to crash. Imagine that then getting out to realise you have killed a family, horrible

Err, I will save my sympathy for the family that was wiped out by that frecking moron.

keef66

We've always had car kits or increasingly Bluetooth which allows hands-free use of the phone, but company now insist we don't use it while driving. Years ago I remember driving west on the M4 when I received a call. Traffic was very light so I talked for a while. When the call ended I noticed my speed had fallen to about 50mph without me realising it, which disturbed me so much I've never done it since.

I also note that the company help line / counselling service / medical insurers etc won't talk to you if they think you're driving, which is a good thing (but it can be hard to convince them you're safely parked up if they can hear traffic!)

kingstongraham

HaydenM wrote:

I use my hands free all the time for work when I'm driving, mainly when people are calling me though (I like the time away to think). If handsfree sets were banned I'd never get any work done, plus it would be even harder to enforce. Looking at your phone when driving is pretty unacceptable though, the amount of people I see weaving down the motorway is amazing, cars and lorries alike.

EDIT: watching the in car video of the crash I find myself feeling very sorry for the driver, I know what he was doing was totally stupid but it's all too easy to imagine the feeling when he realises he is about to crash. Imagine that then getting out to realise you have killed a family, horrible

Your perspective is all wrong. What he did wasn't just stupid. This is someone doing something dangerous, that he knew was dangerous, and had even signed a form one hour earlier saying that he wouldn't do it because it was dangerous. Then when it turns out to be dangerous, you have sympathy for him? He should have nightmares and feel terrible about what he has done.

thistle_

Capt Slog wrote:

Veronese68 wrote:

I shout to get off his phone hoping one of the many policemen there would do something, obviously not.

I was following a car home one night where the woman driving had been on the phone for around 15 minutes. Her course took her through a very busy motoway junction, lights, and many turns. We eventually arrived in the village where I live, and there walking along the pavement were two police officers. I used the horn and shouted to them that the driver in front was on the phone. Out came the notebooks, and they took down my registration number. :roll:

My girlfriend was driving behind someone who was weaving across lanes and nearly hit someone one morning on the way to work. She pulled over and rang the police saying she thought he was drink driving (he may have been on his phone).
They asked if she'd seen him drinking alcohol - no - we're not interested, stop wasting our time etc. :roll:

slowbike

KingstonGraham wrote:

HaydenM wrote:

I use my hands free all the time for work when I'm driving, mainly when people are calling me though (I like the time away to think). If handsfree sets were banned I'd never get any work done, plus it would be even harder to enforce. Looking at your phone when driving is pretty unacceptable though, the amount of people I see weaving down the motorway is amazing, cars and lorries alike.

EDIT: watching the in car video of the crash I find myself feeling very sorry for the driver, I know what he was doing was totally stupid but it's all too easy to imagine the feeling when he realises he is about to crash. Imagine that then getting out to realise you have killed a family, horrible

Your perspective is all wrong. What he did wasn't just stupid. This is someone doing something dangerous, that he knew was dangerous, and had even signed a form one hour earlier saying that he wouldn't do it because it was dangerous. Then when it turns out to be dangerous, you have sympathy for him? He should have nightmares and feel terrible about what he has done.

I can see where Hayden is coming from - not that I agree with him - changing your playlist, be that on a phone, built in stereo or any other device is something that we all do or have done from time to time. Much is being made of the fact that it was his mobile he was using - but it was, to all intents and purposes, just an audio player. Taking your eyes off the road for a moment again, is something we have all done - and if you look at the forward facing camera feed - there's what appears to be clear road ahead - it's only in the last moments that it's clear that it's stationery traffic (or slow moving - I don't know the actual status of the vehicles involved at the time). Clearly he would've seen the obstacles earlier if he'd been paying attention to the road - and he should've been.
So from Haydens view - this driver hadn't intended to be dangerous - he wasn't sat there gassing on the phone, he possibly felt he wasn't breaking any conditions the company had - because he was using it as a media player - and probably felt he was driving safely - right up to the point where he saw the traffic in front - way too late. If he'd been driving a car then the outcome could've been significantly different ...

And that's the problem - we all think what we're doing is safe enough - even if it is only safe because there isn't anything in the way - whether we've seen it or not - we get away with it all too often. Then when it goes wrong it can go really wrong and we're left paying the price. We all should learn from this, to SLOW DOWN and pay more attention to what's going on on the road - don't drive/ride like we're the most important people there or like we own the road - we don't, we're not. Back off and just accept it's going to be 30 seconds later that you get to your destination - but rest assured, you won't be killing that person in front and depriving them and their family of their futures.

Those poor children could've been trick or treating last night - and could've been looking forward to seeing some fireworks - their family may have planned what they were doing for Christmas and there may have been some birthday treats thought through - perhaps even a holiday already booked for next summer. They'll never get to do that now - because someone who thought he was driving safe enough, wasn't ...

so, next time we get on the road, perhaps we should spare a thought for Tracy Houghton, her son Ethan age 13, stepdaughter Aimee Goldsmith age 11 and younger son Josh also age 11 and think what they could've been doing today had the person behind not decided his music was more important than concentrating on the road.

fenix

Changing your playlist ? Whilst driving ? Nope. Never done it. Whats more important - having my eyes on the road or playing a slightly different song ?

I can even drive along without music. It makes no difference. I really don't get these people who need music everywhere. Walking. On the tube, Cycling.

My company doesn't allow people on hands free phones either for work. It's an excellent start.

I've reported drivers (on a hands free or via a wife in the passenger seat) for crazy driving or clearly being on their phones. The police take the reg plate and say they'll follow them up. Not sure if they do or not, but they've never said that they're not interested.

Nowadays I have my phone on airplane mode when I'm driving. Its just a distraction you don't need.

slowbike

Fenix wrote:

Changing your playlist ? Whilst driving ? Nope. Never done it. Whats more important - having my eyes on the road or playing a slightly different song ?

Are you suggesting that you've always paid 100% attention to what's going on the road ahead?
What about keeping an eye on what's going on behind? That means you're not looking at what goes on ahead.
What about operating the hands free (that you admit to later in your post) - that draws attention away from the road.
Even turning the radio on/off requires a level of thought that distracts from concentrating on the road - depends if you know where the knob is (no, not the one behind the wheel! )

Fenix wrote:

Nowadays I have my phone on airplane mode when I'm driving. Its just a distraction you don't need.

It's a good start - but even then that's sometimes not enough. A moments distraction - looking at that advertising board, looking at the signboard telling you which way you need to go, trying to make out what the overhead sign is saying or even just confusing roadworks can be enough to distract you - add to that that you cannot concentrate 100% all the time and accidents will happen - we just have to do everything we can to avoid them.
Hence when I drive through a small village on the way to work - I know there's a chance that there will be children crossing the road - or waiting to cross - it's a busy A road and no central reserve - so I hang back and stop way back if there are kids waiting to cross - at least that's one direction they don't have to be too careful about - although I guess some idiot may overtake me one day.

haydenm

mamba80 wrote:

HaydenM wrote:

EDIT: watching the in car video of the crash I find myself feeling very sorry for the driver, I know what he was doing was totally stupid but it's all too easy to imagine the feeling when he realises he is about to crash. Imagine that then getting out to realise you have killed a family, horrible

i have read some pretty stupid remarks on this forum but this one is by far the most stupid.

Easy to feel sorry for guy who was scrolling through his Spotify and then drives into the back of a line of cars, killing 4 people, 3 children who will never have a future..... yeah my heart fcuking bleeds for him, maybe we could have BR whip round ?
Maybe you should instead imagine the father and try and feel sorry for him?

Well I wasn't expecting that. Maybe reading my comment back to myself it reads a little differently to how I had intended it to! I didn't say I don't feel sorry for the victims, just that I can imagine the crash and I pity him.

I think I should clarify here that it goes without saying that the family deserve every sympathy, watching the family cry is heartbreaking. I didn't mean to disregard his actions and say his feelings are equal to the family's. I was making a side point that I can imagine his feeling a split second before the crash and it makes me feel sick. If you watch the video you see him realise he is about to crash. I can imagine the feeling of looking up too late to stop what was about to happen, I can try to imagine the feeling of realising what he had done and that it was all his fault. It makes me never want to use the phone at the wheel and I feel sorry for him to have ruined that many people's lives including his own because he was a moron. Obviously he deserves 10 years in prison if not more

The fact that I can watch what he did and imagine the driver crashing makes videos like this much more hard hitting for me than watching the family making a statement alone, as sad as it is you being numb to it being on the news. Very brave of them and no doubt it will make all the more impact on people

fenix

Slowbike - looking in your mirrors etc is a part of driving. You have to be aware of whats behind too.

At no point on my driving test was I asked to change a playlist on my phone.

Most cars have radio controls on the wheel anyway - you can change stuff without having to look. I'd never be able to change a playlist without looking.

Bobbinogs

The driver was a complete bstard and deserves to rot in hell. We don't need more words that that.

kingstongraham

HaydenM wrote:

The fact that I can watch what he did and imagine the driver crashing makes videos like this much more hard hitting for me than watching the family making a statement alone, as sad as it is you being numb to it being on the news. Very brave of them and no doubt it will make all the more impact on people

Agreed. The fact that people can picture themselves doing what he did will hopefully stop some of them doing it again.

slowbike

Fenix wrote:

Slowbike - looking in your mirrors etc is a part of driving. You have to be aware of whats behind too.

Indeed - but it means you're not looking ahead ..

Fenix wrote:

At no point on my driving test was I asked to change a playlist on my phone.

Examiner liked your music then

Fenix wrote:

Most cars have radio controls on the wheel anyway - you can change stuff without having to look. I'd never be able to change a playlist without looking.

Ah - you're young or have/had too much money.

I don't bother changing the play list - I just turn it off ... or get my wife to change it (assuming I'm driving)

keef66

"Slowbike wrote:

Hence when I drive through a small village on the way to work - I know there's a chance that there will be children crossing the road - or waiting to cross - it's a busy A road and no central reserve - so I hang back and stop way back if there are kids waiting to cross - at least that's one direction they don't have to be too careful about - although I guess some idiot may overtake me one day.

Couple of years ago I was driving home through a village, just negotiated two 90 deg bends and still in the 30mph limit when I needed to take a turn on the right. Indicated in plenty of time because of the procession of rush hour cars behind me. I glanced in my door mirror just before making the turn and it's lucky I did because the @rsehole in the car 2 0r 3 vehicles back was overtaking :roll: Brown trouser moment! :shock: It's a company car and I sometimes wish I'd turned anyway. Would have been worth the paperwork just to trash his car and send him into the field, and perhaps make him think before trying it again in an even more dangerous spot...

Youngest son was on the school bus when one of his classmates jumped off and dodged across the road. Unfortunately he hit and killed by a car speeding past the stationary bus.

fenix

I remember a club run - must have been years back and a big ride - 20 or so ? We'd indicated to turn right and were in the middle of the road - I was at the back and heard this roar from behind - d*ckhead driver was overtaking anyway.

If we hadn't shouted the guys just starting to turn would have gone right into his path. Some people shouldnt be allowed to drive.

motogull

I can only think that phone use is on the up because you never see plod any more. I can understand the temptation to be a bit sneaky but some of the stuff I see is so brazen. Pulling out into traffic could not be less obvious yet I see it so often. I think the way it is going is that we will need to submit dashcam footage before plod might act.

mamba80

Motogull wrote:

I can only think that phone use is on the up because you never see plod any more. I can understand the temptation to be a bit sneaky but some of the stuff I see is so brazen. Pulling out into traffic could not be less obvious yet I see it so often. I think the way it is going is that we will need to submit dashcam footage before plod might act.

Automatic 12 month ban and allow the Police to keep all the very large fine.....

Create forces league tables on convictions and give 100k to the C/constable of the winning 'force.

ballysmate

bompington wrote:

All true: there is no doubt that it's dangerous and deserves to be clobbered heavily and policed intensively.

But here's a thought. Mobile phone use while driving has, incontestably, risen from zero to "simply amazing how many" in the course of the last twenty years or so. So accident statistics must also have done, right? :?

Accident injury stats for last 20 years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reported_ ... at_Britain

rolf_f

Hands free kit should really be illegal (the selling and using of it) - what possible purpose is there for it?

Trouble is there is now so much technology that anyone can misuse it is getting to the point that nobody can do anything about it and it will just be accepted anyway. Latest experience I had was coming into land at Leeds Bradford airport on Monday night and seeing a laser being pointed at the plane. What is an effective deterrent for using a phone while driving? In the current economic climate it has to be cost effective - I often think that if you cost the country money by deliberately illegal actions you perhaps should be put in a higher tax band until you have paid it off (which may be forever of course) but there's all sorts of issues with that.

mamba80

Ballysmate wrote:

bompington wrote:

All true: there is no doubt that it's dangerous and deserves to be clobbered heavily and policed intensively.

But here's a thought. Mobile phone use while driving has, incontestably, risen from zero to "simply amazing how many" in the course of the last twenty years or so. So accident statistics must also have done, right? :?

Accident injury stats for last 20 years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reported_ ... at_Britain

I m sure that these somewhat false stat's will be of comfort to the remains of their family! read the criticism of this report Bally, Specifically the unreported stats, gathered from NHS admissions.

Also, deaths and injury attributed to m'phone use is very much on the rise, soon will be higher than DD deaths.

there is no possible reason for using a phone whilst driving, so like DD the penalties should be similar, it will happen, just a matter of when......

slowbike

keef66 wrote:

Youngest son was on the school bus when one of his classmates jumped off and dodged across the road. Unfortunately he hit and killed by a car speeding past the stationary bus.

ok, the kid shouldn't have dodged across the road - but who was the adult in that situation - the idiot behind the wheel of the car speeding past a stationary bus - which anyone with 2 braincells knows would've had kids on - who are known to do stupid things ..

The one bit I hate to see when I pull up for the parents and kids to cross - is the parents running - or letting the kids run across the road. I appreciate that you're trying not to hold me up - but ffs - don't run, walk - just don't amble (unless you can't go faster) - I'm not revving my engine, I'm not chomping at the bit to go - I've stopped to give you safer passage across 1/2 the road - use the time!