Visibility
Comments
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CookeeeMonster wrote:There was a bit of research done by a university a few years back where a researcher basically flipped a coin each day to decide which outfit to wear...from mega high viz to ninja and so on (think there were 7 options?). He recorded the distances that cars passed him and did so for a year (I think, memory hazy and cant be bothered to google).
They discovered that what you wear made no difference whatsoever regarding passing distances, they found there were basically a small minority of drivers on the road that would close pass you regardless and there was nothing you could do about it.
I've read other bits of research that say something similar...ultimately high viz doesn't reduce the overall accident rate despite making you more noticeable in certain situations.
I've never noticed a difference, other people might.
EDIT: here's what I couldn't be bothered to google, makes for some interesting reading: http://road.cc/content/news/99660-high- ... -new-study
Or he needed to write a report that something to get peoples attention (Justification) by going against the obvious
For example theres plenty of reports that exercise actually make you fat ! - if the reports summary was
"People see you more easily with lights and high vis" - ......and you've been researching for a year ? - WTF
I used to ride a recumbent bike - and loads of recumbent riders say you are more visible because of the novelty wtf is that effect. Sensibly you were less visible - but by how much ? - and is significant ?0 -
Three front lights on the bike for last night's ride.
Did the bus driver see me? Yes
Did the bus driver pull out anyway? Yes
Day or night you're dealing with ar$eholes.0 -
100% thisthegreatdivide wrote:Day or night you're dealing with ar$eholes.0 -
At junctions you can feel car drivers mulling over the quandary about pulling out... the "you're only a fuffin bike" thought makes one sometimes quite nervous about ending up over the bonnet one day.... they.. the motons really cant grasp you could be doing in excess of 25mph. My Brite light is on steady to aid speed, eye, distance co ordination.
Does my Provis rucksack make me safer on a dark commute? ... no idea, maybe.... lost count of the close passes I still get... the moton's journey is more important than yours, never forget.0 -
I was out cutting the lawn last week and a rider went by at high speed on our somewhat dangerous road in a tight "pro" outfit. It was a dark-colored outfit, the bike was a dark color and it had absolutely no reflectors or lights on it. It looked to me like they were deliberately removed. By the rider's physical condition, the speed at which they were traveling and the quality of the bike, you could tell this was someone who probably has quite a few years into the sport.
What are these people thinking? I watched him go down the road and watched him blend right into the scenery in less than a hundred yards.
Our area always has quite a few riders hit and usually has a fatality or two every season.
I often go shirtless, but I've got four extra reflectors in the back, three extra in the front, alternating white blinkers in the front even in the daylight in addition to my "headlight", a bright red blinker on the back of the bike and a bright red blinker on the back of my helmet.
I carry a "DOT-yellow" T-shirt tied to my cross bar for when it's not hot and sunny (and because of the old "no shirt - no service" thing) and I have an orange flag waving 7 feet in the air.0 -
SoloOwners wrote:I was out cutting the lawn last week and a rider went by at high speed on our somewhat dangerous road in a tight "pro" outfit. It was a dark-colored outfit, the bike was a dark color and it had absolutely no reflectors or lights on it. It looked to me like they were deliberately removed. By the rider's physical condition, the speed at which they were traveling and the quality of the bike, you could tell this was someone who probably has quite a few years into the sport.
What are these people thinking? I watched him go down the road and watched him blend right into the scenery in less than a hundred yards.
Our area always has quite a few riders hit and usually has a fatality or two every season.
I often go shirtless, but I've got four extra reflectors in the back, three extra in the front, alternating white blinkers in the front even in the daylight in addition to my "headlight", a bright red blinker on the back of the bike and a bright red blinker on the back of my helmet.
I carry a "DOT-yellow" T-shirt tied to my cross bar for when it's not hot and sunny (and because of the old "no shirt - no service" thing) and I have an orange flag waving 7 feet in the air.
So to sum up: despite his high speed you clearly saw him and were able to judge his physical condition, quality of bike and the small details missing plus make a judgement on his riding prowess .
Hmmmm I need to copy this guy!!!!0 -
This guy from Bath makes a career out of making bold claims based on shonky, inconclusive research with tiny data sets.CookeeeMonster wrote:There was a bit of research done by a university a few years back where a researcher basically flipped a coin each day to decide which outfit to wear...from mega high viz to ninja and so on (think there were 7 options?). He recorded the distances that cars passed him and did so for a year (I think, memory hazy and cant be bothered to google).
They discovered that what you wear made no difference whatsoever regarding passing distances, they found there were basically a small minority of drivers on the road that would close pass you regardless and there was nothing you could do about it.
I've read other bits of research that say something similar...ultimately high viz doesn't reduce the overall accident rate despite making you more noticeable in certain situations.
I've never noticed a difference, other people might.
EDIT: here's what I couldn't be bothered to google, makes for some interesting reading: http://road.cc/content/news/99660-high- ... -new-study
Pretty much the only thing he's shown is that by randomly selecting his clothing each day, no pattern can be observed in the type of clothing he wears.
Seriously, I hope he's EU funded.0 -
I saw a car last night driving with no lights on
now the fact that I saw him and he didn't crash .. despite not being lit up means I can deduce all cars don't need lights at night !0 -
CookeeeMonster wrote:SoloOwners wrote:I was out cutting the lawn last week and a rider went by at high speed on our somewhat dangerous road in a tight "pro" outfit. It was a dark-colored outfit, the bike was a dark color and it had absolutely no reflectors or lights on it. It looked to me like they were deliberately removed. By the rider's physical condition, the speed at which they were traveling and the quality of the bike, you could tell this was someone who probably has quite a few years into the sport.
What are these people thinking? I watched him go down the road and watched him blend right into the scenery in less than a hundred yards.
Our area always has quite a few riders hit and usually has a fatality or two every season.
I often go shirtless, but I've got four extra reflectors in the back, three extra in the front, alternating white blinkers in the front even in the daylight in addition to my "headlight", a bright red blinker on the back of the bike and a bright red blinker on the back of my helmet.
I carry a "DOT-yellow" T-shirt tied to my cross bar for when it's not hot and sunny (and because of the old "no shirt - no service" thing) and I have an orange flag waving 7 feet in the air.
So to sum up: despite his high speed you clearly saw him and were able to judge his physical condition, quality of bike and the small details missing plus make a judgement on his riding prowess .
Hmmmm I need to copy this guy!!!!
You forgot to also criticise SoloOwners for dangerously looking away from the lawnmower.0 -
I don't know why this subject is so difficult: just use your own experience as a road user to know which people you spot and those they don't. There are times, especially on roads where there's lots of overhanging trees where it's very difficult to spot riders (bike and horse) and peds who don't do more to make themselves visible. I take care driving in these conditions but not everybody does. In other conditions, everybody is easy to spot. It's hardly rocket science.ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH0
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I've got 2 Endura high viz jerseys and some hiviz arm and leg warmers and even a Giro Foray in fluro. Doesn't really matter as I got the stuff free as my elderly parents gave me free reign on Wiggle for my birthday concerned about riding on crowded dangerous UK roads.
I'd never wear some baggy high-viz vest like a road resurfacing contractor, but if you have niceish kit that happens to help in the event of an incident when the idiot driver and insurance company want to start a game of 'blame the victim', then who cares?
IMHO it makes no difference. Someone not looking won't see. An arsehole will pull out no matter what colour your clothes are and someone on autopilot will just carry on as normal.0 -
CookeeeMonster wrote:SoloOwners wrote:I was out cutting the lawn last week and a rider went by at high speed on our somewhat dangerous road in a tight "pro" outfit. It was a dark-colored outfit, the bike was a dark color and it had absolutely no reflectors or lights on it. It looked to me like they were deliberately removed. By the rider's physical condition, the speed at which they were traveling and the quality of the bike, you could tell this was someone who probably has quite a few years into the sport.
What are these people thinking? I watched him go down the road and watched him blend right into the scenery in less than a hundred yards.
Our area always has quite a few riders hit and usually has a fatality or two every season.
I often go shirtless, but I've got four extra reflectors in the back, three extra in the front, alternating white blinkers in the front even in the daylight in addition to my "headlight", a bright red blinker on the back of the bike and a bright red blinker on the back of my helmet.
I carry a "DOT-yellow" T-shirt tied to my cross bar for when it's not hot and sunny (and because of the old "no shirt - no service" thing) and I have an orange flag waving 7 feet in the air.
So to sum up: despite his high speed you clearly saw him and were able to judge his physical condition, quality of bike and the small details missing plus make a judgement on his riding prowess .
Hmmmm I need to copy this guy!!!!
Ahhh... Yeah, I was 10 feet from him. And actually, it was more like in about 50 yard away that he blended into the background so much that I actually lost him from view. Some of the cars on that road travel at 55mph though it's a 35mph limit. No, not good. Or did you just want to be argumentative for it's own sake here?0 -
ZMC888 wrote:I've got 2 Endura high viz jerseys and some hiviz arm and leg warmers and even a Giro Foray in fluro. Doesn't really matter as I got the stuff free as my elderly parents gave me free reign on Wiggle for my birthday concerned about riding on crowded dangerous UK roads.
I'd never wear some baggy high-viz vest like a road resurfacing contractor, but if you have niceish kit that happens to help in the event of an incident when the idiot driver and insurance company want to start a game of 'blame the victim', then who cares?
IMHO it makes no difference. Someone not looking won't see. An arsehole will pull out no matter what colour your clothes are and someone on autopilot will just carry on as normal.
So we may as well wear camo eh?0 -
SoloOwners wrote:CookeeeMonster wrote:SoloOwners wrote:I was out cutting the lawn last week and a rider went by at high speed on our somewhat dangerous road in a tight "pro" outfit. It was a dark-colored outfit, the bike was a dark color and it had absolutely no reflectors or lights on it. It looked to me like they were deliberately removed. By the rider's physical condition, the speed at which they were traveling and the quality of the bike, you could tell this was someone who probably has quite a few years into the sport.
What are these people thinking? I watched him go down the road and watched him blend right into the scenery in less than a hundred yards.
Our area always has quite a few riders hit and usually has a fatality or two every season.
I often go shirtless, but I've got four extra reflectors in the back, three extra in the front, alternating white blinkers in the front even in the daylight in addition to my "headlight", a bright red blinker on the back of the bike and a bright red blinker on the back of my helmet.
I carry a "DOT-yellow" T-shirt tied to my cross bar for when it's not hot and sunny (and because of the old "no shirt - no service" thing) and I have an orange flag waving 7 feet in the air.
So to sum up: despite his high speed you clearly saw him and were able to judge his physical condition, quality of bike and the small details missing plus make a judgement on his riding prowess .
Hmmmm I need to copy this guy!!!!
Ahhh... Yeah, I was 10 feet from him. And actually, it was more like in about 50 yard away that he blended into the background so much that I actually lost him from view. Some of the cars on that road travel at 55mph though it's a 35mph limit. No, not good. Or did you just want to be argumentative for it's own sake here?
No I thought your argument was rubbish so added a sarky reply.
T''internet innit
:P 0 -
Wear what you feel comfortable to wear. If you don't feel comfortable cycling in full back kit, don't. If you don't feel the need for hi-viz, don't.
It's pretty simple.0 -
Or you can be a ninja in daylight and reflective at night for a bargain price of £350...
http://www.rapha.cc/gb/en/shop/special- ... ct/RCR01XX
(other cheaper tops are available)0 -
CookeeeMonster wrote:SoloOwners wrote:CookeeeMonster wrote:SoloOwners wrote:I was out cutting the lawn last week and a rider went by at high speed on our somewhat dangerous road in a tight "pro" outfit. It was a dark-colored outfit, the bike was a dark color and it had absolutely no reflectors or lights on it. It looked to me like they were deliberately removed. By the rider's physical condition, the speed at which they were traveling and the quality of the bike, you could tell this was someone who probably has quite a few years into the sport.
What are these people thinking? I watched him go down the road and watched him blend right into the scenery in less than a hundred yards.
Our area always has quite a few riders hit and usually has a fatality or two every season.
I often go shirtless, but I've got four extra reflectors in the back, three extra in the front, alternating white blinkers in the front even in the daylight in addition to my "headlight", a bright red blinker on the back of the bike and a bright red blinker on the back of my helmet.
I carry a "DOT-yellow" T-shirt tied to my cross bar for when it's not hot and sunny (and because of the old "no shirt - no service" thing) and I have an orange flag waving 7 feet in the air.
So to sum up: despite his high speed you clearly saw him and were able to judge his physical condition, quality of bike and the small details missing plus make a judgement on his riding prowess .
Hmmmm I need to copy this guy!!!!
Ahhh... Yeah, I was 10 feet from him. And actually, it was more like in about 50 yard away that he blended into the background so much that I actually lost him from view. Some of the cars on that road travel at 55mph though it's a 35mph limit. No, not good. Or did you just want to be argumentative for it's own sake here?
No I thought your argument was rubbish so added a sarky reply.
T''internet innit :P
Well, that certainly shows where your head's at to begin with. News bulletin... It wasn't an argument. And it's snarky, not sarky. Wear what you want, but don't expect people to see you with dark clothing and no visibility aids... And don't ever hope to have your opinions respected when you offer blatant disrespect for no particularly good reason.0 -
SoloOwners wrote:CookeeeMonster wrote:SoloOwners wrote:CookeeeMonster wrote:SoloOwners wrote:I was out cutting the lawn last week and a rider went by at high speed on our somewhat dangerous road in a tight "pro" outfit. It was a dark-colored outfit, the bike was a dark color and it had absolutely no reflectors or lights on it. It looked to me like they were deliberately removed. By the rider's physical condition, the speed at which they were traveling and the quality of the bike, you could tell this was someone who probably has quite a few years into the sport.
What are these people thinking? I watched him go down the road and watched him blend right into the scenery in less than a hundred yards.
Our area always has quite a few riders hit and usually has a fatality or two every season.
I often go shirtless, but I've got four extra reflectors in the back, three extra in the front, alternating white blinkers in the front even in the daylight in addition to my "headlight", a bright red blinker on the back of the bike and a bright red blinker on the back of my helmet.
I carry a "DOT-yellow" T-shirt tied to my cross bar for when it's not hot and sunny (and because of the old "no shirt - no service" thing) and I have an orange flag waving 7 feet in the air.
So to sum up: despite his high speed you clearly saw him and were able to judge his physical condition, quality of bike and the small details missing plus make a judgement on his riding prowess .
Hmmmm I need to copy this guy!!!!
Ahhh... Yeah, I was 10 feet from him. And actually, it was more like in about 50 yard away that he blended into the background so much that I actually lost him from view. Some of the cars on that road travel at 55mph though it's a 35mph limit. No, not good. Or did you just want to be argumentative for it's own sake here?
No I thought your argument was rubbish so added a sarky reply.
T''internet innit :P
Well, that certainly shows where your head's at to begin with. News bulletin... It wasn't an argument. And it's snarky, not sarky. Wear what you want, but don't expect people to see you with dark clothing and no visibility aids... And don't ever hope to have your opinions respected when you offer blatant disrespect for no particularly good reason.
I disagree with your opinion and feel it gives inexperienced cyclists overconfidence that they will be seen and safe on the roads.
Wear what you like, I don't care.
Snarky - that's thhe word I was looking for, thanks! Btw I was attempting a jokey reply before to diffuse any negativity here. I failed, sorry.;)0 -
Sarky and snarky are both acceptable terms but with different meanings. The former being an abbreviation of sarcastic.
Neither will make you more visible on a bike.0 -
keef66 wrote:Sarky and snarky are both acceptable terms but with different meanings. The former being an abbreviation of sarcastic.
Neither will make you more visible on a bike.
High viz won't stop you getting hit by a car.
Was the point I made in a previous post with a link to some research...research I've seen many a time from multiple sources with regards to this issue.
But no one on here will change their mind on this based on the conversation we're having, we all like talking about it though and wasting time.
My last post on the subject I promise!! And I won't look at the thread again to see your replies so fill yer boots
Ps I wear a variety of cycling clothing including some bright colours and with high viz elements - but at night especially I rely on bright lights front and rear and some times side0 -
SoloOwners wrote:
Well, that certainly shows where your head's at to begin with. News bulletin... It wasn't an argument. And it's snarky, not sarky. Wear what you want, but don't expect people to see you with dark clothing and no visibility aids... And don't ever hope to have your opinions respected when you offer blatant disrespect for no particularly good reason.
I don't want to get involved in your argument/none argument, but where I live it's definitely sarky, and not snarky (never even heard that expression before!) as in "sarcastic".
I guess its just down to regional differences. Or your opinion. :oops:
(That was a joke, honest!)0 -
I hope I haven't missed it, but I've been through the thread and haven't seen any mention of colour.
We've known since the 60s or 70s that the red sensing cells at the back of the eye are located in the centre of the eye only. Things may appear colourful in the periphery of the eye, but that is the brain crayoning them in.
The main sensors in the periphery of vision are to movement and hardly get activated by red.
Despite this being known for approximately 50yrs is this new to you guys? (Edit to add: this reads as rude. Wasn't supposed to be. Just interested)
In addition,we do not notice movement in homogenous colours. We notice edges and corners. Again old knowledge.
Personally, I think stripey or cross-hatch with white stripes is best, but blue (same pattern) would be more likely to keep police/lawyers happy. Basically imagine a blue bee.
If you want to be seen in people's peripheral vision I certainly wouldn't go for homogenous red. I do own a red gillet, but hadn't thought about it then.
I'm interested to know if this is new knowledge to you all, or if you've heard it mentioned? Thanks
Ps. This is so old that I can't give reference, but if you look in any decent sized undergraduate physiology book it will be there.0 -
I don't read many decent sized undergraduate physiology books, I admit.0
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Sorry, I didn't mean have you read physiology books. Badly written. I meant more: has it filtered through to you?0
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I found page on internet with the stuff about peripheral vision
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hb ... dcone.html
No need for textbooks0 -
And the lines stuff is sort of covered here (at bottom)
http://www.opticalillusion.net/optical- ... -illusion/0 -
Wow, just wow! I'm struggling to think when I'd wear that.....(well, tbh I wouldn't buy it to begin with)Fenix wrote:Or you can be a ninja in daylight and reflective at night for a bargain price of £350...
http://www.rapha.cc/gb/en/shop/special- ... ct/RCR01XX
(other cheaper tops are available)"It must be true, it's on the internet" - Winston Churchill0 -
Ridiculously price, but at-least it has lines of contrast.
I have for running a Zap from Sugoi; https://youtu.be/BuhsDoFTsnI
It is to be truthful really very ugly. I probably got the ugliest one they have at 70% off. I would never wear it when I wasn't doing exercise though. I don't half show up well though. If I ever see the cycling version properly cheap I'll get one. I'm never going to look cool anyway.0 -
There's plenty handsome jackets that have a couple of high-viz strips on them, no need to go in full neon. Have a look at the Craft jackets for example, really good quality and there's quite a few with high-viz elements.
What annoys me is when other cyclists don't aim their front lights to the ground, but straight forward. Completely blinds me, nearly cycled into the (Basingstoke) canal twice after being left blinded.0 -
EBEB wrote:Sorry, I didn't mean have you read physiology books. Badly written. I meant more: has it filtered through to you?
I'm sure it had, but forgetting stuff like that is probably why I failed my university ophthalmology exams. (That's not a joke.)
Interesting though, thanks.0
