Visibility

rnath

As the evenings draw in, I'm increasingly conscious of my largely black cycling kit. I use a lot of lights, but would still like to increase my visibility. I've never been entirely convinced by the effectiveness of hi-vis at night, but looking at other riders at dusk (when it's still too bright to use lights) there's a definite advantage. If I'm completely honest, I also hate the idea of looking like a human bee/lollipop lady on my bike, but I guess it's more sensible to be slightly embarrassed and alive than fashionable and dead.

So my question is, for you drivers out there, does hi-vis clothing really make you notice cyclists? And for the cyclists, do you reckon you're more visible with a hi-vis gilet, or oversocks? Ta...

Garry H

In the dark, reflective hi viz clothing makes a difference. At dusk, the yellow thing is easier to see than black.

I wear a reflective gilet in the dark

fenix

+1 on what Garry says.

Even in daylight bright colours pop out more than black. Black is a stupid colour for a top. With shorts/longs - its practical.

Good reflectives around the foot/leg that are moving and catch headlights are good.

Theres plenty of cheap reflective and fluorescent gilets you can put over your black kit if you want. As you say - I'd rather get home safe and sound than look cool in A&E.

bendertherobot

https://roubaixcycling.cc/2016/04/07/cy ... mes-heard/

slowbike

rnath wrote:

I've never been entirely convinced by the effectiveness of hi-vis at night, but looking at other riders at dusk (when it's still too bright to use lights) there's a definite advantage.

I notice bikes with lights on ... day or night or dusk ... you don't need to be a christmas tree - at least 1 good light - preferably 2.

Hi Viz - reflective strip on my mudguards, overshoes with reflective trim, jackets with reflective trim - along with the 2 rear lights and 2 front lights if the buggers haven't seen me then they're playing on their phones and they wouldn't see me anyway.

tangled_metal

My tyres, mudguards, jacket, helmet (when I choose to wear it) and overshoes (when I wear it in the rain but my trainers if I'm not wearing them) all have those reflectives that light up with lights from any source. My mudguards have it around the edge on both sides plus the top so it's visible from the sides and rear. It also has a red reflector.

I'm intending on getting reflective stickers in a matt silver like my bike. That'll be dotted around the bike and for 360 degree visibility of the reflectives. I've got matt black ones too which I'm thinking of adding to my waterproof because it's a climbing one without reflectives and it's black with red details. Until I get a decent cycling waterproof I'll have to use it in the heavy rain situations.

Basically I'm not 100% in conformance with regulations but I'm a lot more visible than if I only stuck to the regulation requirements. I'd rather be seen and avoided than legal anyway.

thegreatdivide

Cyclists who drive will notice a fellow cyclist, but for the rest of the idiots behind wheels none of what you wear or flash makes a blind bit of difference (excuse the pun). Drivers will still close pass you or cut you up - day or night. Kit yourself out with a multitude of flashing and reflective bits so that you look like Tron at a rave if it makes you feel safer- but it really does mean sod all on UK roads.

diamonddog

^^This

kingstongraham

thegreatdivide wrote:

Cyclists who drive will notice a fellow cyclist, but for the rest of the idiots behind wheels none of what you wear or flash makes a blind bit of difference (excuse the pun). Drivers will still close pass you or cut you up - day or night. Kit yourself out with a multitude of flashing and reflective bits so that you look like Tron at a rave if it makes you feel safer- but it really does mean sod all on UK roads.

This is rubbish. I'd rather a close pass by a bad driver who has seen me than a driver not seeing me.

But it's your choice, and you can decide whether you want to wear something reflective to help a driver to see you or not. Once they've seen you, it is obviously up to them, and some drivers are worse than others.

stueys

I'm less worried about the clothes colours to be honest. IMHO flashing lights and high vis on moving part (feet are ideal) is highly visible.

I've got longs with a reflective dash down the back of the calf and they catch car lights very well. I also have a reflective ankle strap thing that I put on if it's dark and I don't have reflective overshoes or something with a reflective component on my calf/foot.

fenix

I'm not as pessimistic as DD - I don't believe all cyclist drivers are great either. I've not seen my mate when we've been out cycling because he was all clad in black. If he was brighter I'd surely have seen him.

Yes there are some godawful drivers around - but they're only a tiny minority or they'd be killing us repeatedly.

Get lights, get reflectives, get bright and the odds are better - but you still have to be aware.

I'm not for the ninja look I'm afraid.

diamonddog

Lights are the thing I notice more then reflective clothing, if a rider is dressed all in black but with the correct lights on then he is visible, a reflective jacket or whatever does not make them more so, this is just my opinion as a cyclist and a driver. Remember car drivers often fail to see white (or any other bright colour) cars with full headlights on when an accident occurs.

thegreatdivide

KingstonGraham wrote:

thegreatdivide wrote:

Cyclists who drive will notice a fellow cyclist, but for the rest of the idiots behind wheels none of what you wear or flash makes a blind bit of difference (excuse the pun). Drivers will still close pass you or cut you up - day or night. Kit yourself out with a multitude of flashing and reflective bits so that you look like Tron at a rave if it makes you feel safer- but it really does mean sod all on UK roads.

This is rubbish. I'd rather a close pass by a bad driver who has seen me than a driver not seeing me.

But it's your choice, and you can decide whether you want to wear something reflective to help a driver to see you or not. Once they've seen you, it is obviously up to them, and some drivers are worse than others.

So basically what I posted.

mfin

This always creates long threads full of "I'm right", "No, I'm right", "No, I'm right".

It's all pretty common sense, you can see other riders and make up your own mind. Hi-vis type fluro stuff seems to pick out quite well in dull conditions and dusk/dawn. When cars have their lights on, you should already have your lights on (even before a lot of them do if you can), and reflectives come into their own.

navrig2

Hi viz colours are less effective than plain white in the dark but better than black.

fenix

Colours in the dark aren't great. That's where reflectives come in.

Garry H

Navrig2 wrote:

Hi viz colours are less effective than plain white in the dark but better than black.

Hi viz colours are most effective in fading light.

kingrollo

I wear high vis - rear and side lights - even if it doesn't up help some half asleep coke head - in in electrical contractor van see me. It might help should I ever be involved an accident to counter 'Sorry mate I didn't see you'

Its about minimising the risk - even if the extent of that os only nominal.

Tashman

thegreatdivide wrote:

Cyclists who drive will notice a fellow cyclist, but for the rest of the idiots behind wheels none of what you wear or flash makes a blind bit of difference (excuse the pun). Drivers will still close pass you or cut you up - day or night. Kit yourself out with a multitude of flashing and reflective bits so that you look like Tron at a rave if it makes you feel safer- but it really does mean sod all on UK roads.

Bull

fat daddy

ultimately ..... people notice things that stand out.

If you dress to look good yet blend in ...people wont notice you, which is kind of ironic seeing that a lot of fashion is there to look good, yet in reality, no one actually notices you

however wear something ridiculous and the world will turn its head and see you

going on that, if you really want to be seen, you ned to wear a giant chicken outfit, with a flashing traffic cone light on your head and reflective comic penis' drawn on your helmet

kingrollo

fat daddy wrote:

ultimately ..... people notice things that stand out.

If you dress to look good yet blend in ...people wont notice you, which is kind of ironic seeing that a lot of fashion is there to look good, yet in reality, no one actually notices you

however wear something ridiculous and the world will turn its head and see you

going on that, if you really want to be seen, you ned to wear a giant chicken outfit, with a flashing traffic cone light on your head and reflective comic penis' drawn on your helmet

It was you that overtook me this morning then ?

craigus89

Wear what you want. Personally, I'm far to vain to wear a high-vis vest and I strongly doubt it makes a difference.

I have good lights and my overshoes, for instance, have reflective trim as do my leg warmers. If that isn't going to make me visible to drivers, I doubt the addition of a bright coloured vest would make the difference.

If it makes you feel safer, and you don't mind looking like your grandma on her way to the shops, then go for it and wear hi-vis.

slowbike

Craigus89 wrote:

Wear what you want. Personally, I'm far to vain to wear a high-vis vest and I strongly doubt it makes a difference.

I don't think you nescersarily need to wear HiVis - just something other than black (for most of us)

fenix

All depends on the situation.

What light sources are there ? If none - then its only car headlights - so reflectives all the way.

If streetlamps - then you want white or the fluo colours (as well as reflectives).

navrig2

Garry H wrote:

Navrig2 wrote:

Hi viz colours are less effective than plain white in the dark but better than black.

Hi viz colours are most effective in fading light.

Both statement are correct so chose your colours to suit your riding environment and wear loads of reflective materials and use several lights.

Simple.

cookeeemonster

There was a bit of research done by a university a few years back where a researcher basically flipped a coin each day to decide which outfit to wear...from mega high viz to ninja and so on (think there were 7 options?). He recorded the distances that cars passed him and did so for a year (I think, memory hazy and cant be bothered to google).

They discovered that what you wear made no difference whatsoever regarding passing distances, they found there were basically a small minority of drivers on the road that would close pass you regardless and there was nothing you could do about it.

I've read other bits of research that say something similar...ultimately high viz doesn't reduce the overall accident rate despite making you more noticeable in certain situations.

I've never noticed a difference, other people might.

EDIT: here's what I couldn't be bothered to google, makes for some interesting reading: http://road.cc/content/news/99660-high- ... -new-study

fat daddy

CookeeeMonster wrote:

They discovered that what you wear made no difference whatsoever regarding passing distances,

that's believable, passing distance "pd"is an equation based upon

how much of an arse you are "a"
how much of a hurry you are in "h"
the width of the road "w"
the width of the gap if there is on oncoming car "g"
the mood you are in "m"

and can be expressed as such

pd = ((w-g)/a) - (h+m)

what you are wearing though .... well that might decide on whether the driver of the car actually sees you or ploughs straight in to you

bendertherobot

One of the important issues is contributory negligence. IF you get hit, will the justice system make you or your loved ones suffer from it. So do what you can to avoid this. Being sensible should be good enough, after all, if you've made it 15 miles and then some tosser hits you, why didn't the others?

fat daddy

there is a lot to be said about that .... after all a numptie wearing a hi-vis fluro, mega reflective light up jacket is more likely to get hit than someone who has a slight idea of road safety

kingstongraham

CookeeeMonster wrote:

There was a bit of research done by a university a few years back where a researcher basically flipped a coin each day to decide which outfit to wear...from mega high viz to ninja and so on (think there were 7 options?). He recorded the distances that cars passed him and did so for a year (I think, memory hazy and cant be bothered to google).

They discovered that what you wear made no difference whatsoever regarding passing distances, they found there were basically a small minority of drivers on the road that would close pass you regardless and there was nothing you could do about it.

I've read other bits of research that say something similar...ultimately high viz doesn't reduce the overall accident rate despite making you more noticeable in certain situations.

I've never noticed a difference, other people might.

EDIT: here's what I couldn't be bothered to google, makes for some interesting reading: http://road.cc/content/news/99660-high- ... -new-study

That means that what you are wearing won't make people give you more room. But I'd still rather a close pass to someone not seeing me.

It's not always overtaking that worries me, because generally there's less of a speed difference and more time for a vehicle to see you, whatever I'm wearing (as long as you have lights at night). Vehicles turning onto the road, or across your path from the other carriageway are the ones that I want to be visible to.

fenix

Quite interesting about the overtaking - but that SHOULD be an easy thing for a driver to see. Coming up behind you - they should have plenty of time to spot you.

Junctions however - you might be side on or with lights obscured by the angle - reflectives arent any use unless the driver is pointing at you - that's where theres likely to be trouble.