Alternatives to a saddle bag

rumbataz

At my current level I won't be needing two water bottles for a while yet. I ride for leisure and hardly ever go over two hours. I drink when I get back home, even during the Summer. So I think using up the second bottle cage with the tool bottle bag is fine for my needs.

daniel_b

rumbataz wrote:

antfly wrote:

You do know the pump mount is supposed to go under the bottle cage, don't you ?

Is it? Erm...nope, I didn't know that! Doh! You might have saved me a lot of grief. I'll fit it tomorrow. Many thanks.

You might need some longer bolts.

I've ordered a couple of those SKS things from Wiggle to see what the deal is, and had them price match JE James, who are cheapest.

A couple of reviews said they fitted them in a rear jersey pocket, and that is really what I would like, something that could slide into a rear pocket, but it may well be too large - it's not as squashy as I hoped it would be, so may just end up sending them both back - worth a go though.

antfly

I have 3 Lezyne pumps mounted to various bikes, ordinary bottle cage bolts should fit fine.

Which SKS pump did you get ?

drlodge

I tried several frame mounted pumps, Leyzene mostly, then gave up and got myself a Specialized Air Tool Mini Road Pump which easily goes into a back pocket.

super_davo

Webboo wrote:

I can't see what advantage a bottle cage bag has over a compact under the saddle bag.

1. Totally waterproof. My Co2 inflator and Hexus multitool still look pristine after years in the bottle. This didn't happen when I used a saddlebag.
2. Really easy to transfer from bike to bike. I've got 4 bikes in regular use. Moving a bottle takes seconds. Saddlebags have brackets and straps, and the easiest one I've had still takes a minute or two to swap over.
3. Means I can use my Carradice Super C maxi saddlebag for my work shirts and lunch when commuting. Much better solution than panniers because it's smaller, lighter and can be removed much quicker.
4. In the case of the Vittoria, much easier to find what you want in it as it opens up in half. Possibly lose some waterproofing over the Pro and Elite bottles but it's out of the brunt of the water being on the frame rather than over the rear wheel.

Stuff like "doesn't spoil the lines of my bike", "looks pro" and "doesn't violate rule 29" are obviously highly subjective....

antfly

Problem with these mini pumps that fit in your pocket is when you come to need them and struggle to get to 50 psi and then have to borrow mine....

keef66

rumbataz wrote:

Now, here's the question: do I need a pump if I have CO2 cartridges and an inflater?

That's a question you'll answer yourself the first time you have more punctures than cartridges or you cock up with the inflator and get nothing in the tube

I never venture out without a pump and a puncture repair kit as well as spare tubes. Saved my bacon more than once. I'm a belt, braces and bicycle clips kind of person though.
My son on the other hand often rides without anything in the way of tools / repair stuff. He'll come unstuck sooner or later!

Suppose it all depends on how far you ride and how remote from civilization, plus your ability to phone for a lift or a taxi...

drlodge

Always carry a pump, it may save your bacon. As for mini pumps, the Specialised one doesn't have much volume but it can get the tyre up to a very decent pressure. Then I use CO2 to top it up ;-)

pilot_pete

drlodge wrote:

Always carry a pump, it may save your bacon. As for mini pumps, the Specialised one doesn't have much volume but it can get the tyre up to a very decent pressure. Then I use CO2 to top it up ;-)

begs the question why? I mean if you are going to crack open a CO2 canister, why not use that to inflate the tube in a couple of seconds rather than use the pump before using the CO2 to top it off?

PP

rumbataz

I've been wondering about the order as well. CO2 first or pump first? If you pump up the tyre first then does the CO2 cartridge have enough pressure to top up the pressure?

pilot_pete

It's not the order, it's the fact that a CO2 cartridge (correct size for the tyre size you have) will blow up the tyre to a very rideable pressure in seconds. No need for a pump either before or after. That is if you have enough cartridges for the number of punctures you have!

The pressure a cartridge achieves depends on the volume you are inflating. It will fill the tube until the pressure in the tube is equal to what is in the cartridge. If you have a cartridge head that stops the remaining gas from escaping when you remove it from the tube then you could use that CO2 to start off another flat tube, I.e. You could partially inflate a second tube with a little pressure.

I suppose in theory if you use a pump first and top off with a cartridge you could potentially top off another tube, but it does depend on how much pressure you lose topping off the first and what pressure you are trying to top off the second to. All getting complicated if you ask me so I just bang a cartridge in which inflates in less than 3 seconds from flat to 100psi. I end up letting a bit out usually to make the tube rideable, I.e. Not too hard. That cartridge is therefore spent and I will bin it or pocket it to bin at home. If I get another puncture I will use another fresh cartridge...

I always carry two cartridges minimum and an adaptor head which has never let me down. In winter the advantage of a cartridge over a pump is you can be back on the road and riding (so therefore not getting too cold standing around) in minutes. I'll take my chances on getting a third puncture and if that were to happen I would be walking to the pick up point where Mrs Pete would be heading out to....

PP

neil h

I can't help but feel a combi pump/inflator is the answer, purely on the basis it gives you the best of both worlds.

Going back to the original question though, I actually bought myself the Elite Superbyasi tool bottle yesterday and have to say I'm a little disappointed. The neck is just that little bit too narrow and it makes packing the things right faff, I've managed to fit: a spare tube, two co2 cartridges and a mini pump/inflator but I can't help feeling there's still more space in there that I just can't get too.

Secteur

super_davo wrote:

Moving a bottle takes seconds. Saddlebags have brackets and straps, and the easiest one I've had still takes a minute or two to swap over.

My topeak saddle bag just clips on and off a small plastic mount that is fixed under the saddle.

It takes, quite literally, 1 second to remove the bag, and the same amount of time to firmly replace it.

It clips on solidly (a bit like a pedal cleat) and has never come loose.

It's small but carries everything I need plus a few extra bits, all wrapped in plastic to keep them dry and noise free. I don't notice it's there and I very highly doubt anyone else does as I pass them.

I have no idea why anyone considers anything else.

I couldn't imagine taking up a bottle cage with one of those packs.

I agree some folk seem to use awful giant saddle packs that look really "mumsy biker" - this topeak system is a world away from that.

drlodge

Pilot Pete wrote:

drlodge wrote:

Always carry a pump, it may save your bacon. As for mini pumps, the Specialised one doesn't have much volume but it can get the tyre up to a very decent pressure. Then I use CO2 to top it up ;-)

begs the question why? I mean if you are going to crack open a CO2 canister, why not use that to inflate the tube in a couple of seconds rather than use the pump before using the CO2 to top it off?

PP

Two reasons:
- the CO2 adapter takes some hand pressure to seal against the valve and its easier to do this with some air in the inner tube - almost essential if you don't have the screw "o-ring" on the valve stem as the valve will just retract into the tyre. Its just too easy to lose a load of CO2 if you can't get a good seal from the off
- as you mention, by using the CO2 to top up, it can do a couple of tyres (well more than one, might struggle with 2).

I'd rather pump up first then top up using CO2, than use CO2 and realise it ran out of gas before the full pressure was reached.

mrdsgs

third reason, If you are a Co2 only man, if the tyre isn't seated properly all the way round the rim and you go from 0 psi to 100psi in 1 second everything will go bang, as the inner tube as "escapes" from the unseated tyre.

Obviously if you have a Co2 head with a flow regulator and are careful you can take it off after putting maybe 25psi, spin the wheel to check seating etc. but much simpler to use hand pump at first, maybe 50 pumps, that keeps you nice and warm in the winter, check tyre bead is seated all the way round and ,as has been said, the valve will then seal better with a push on Co2 head, then Co2 inflation to 100 psi + will be safe and reliable.

Seeing a Co2 inflated inner tube explode out of an unseated tyre is quite instructive.

ollie.williams260

I'd recommend one of these, they look pretty sleek and tucked away http://www.speedsleev.com/product-categ ... eev-small/

pilot_pete

drlodge wrote:

Two reasons:
- the CO2 adapter takes some hand pressure to seal against the valve and its easier to do this with some air in the inner tube - almost essential if you don't have the screw "o-ring" on the valve stem as the valve will just retract into the tyre. Its just too easy to lose a load of CO2 if you can't get a good seal from the off
- as you mention, by using the CO2 to top up, it can do a couple of tyres (well more than one, might struggle with 2)

Can't say I've ever found it 'almost essential' to have some pressure in the tube before using an inflator, in fact far from it. I can see mrdsgs's point, but once again, if you are careful and check seating before inflating you shouldn't have the tube trapped by the bead. Again, not a problem if one is careful. You can give a 'quick squirt' with an inflator and then check seating again if this is your preferred method before fully inflating.

I must admit once an inflator has been even part used I would bin it when I get home as they are cheap enough and I'd rather carry full ones on my next ride...

PP

Oh and p.s. I thought a combi pump/ inflator head was the ideal solution until I found that it wasn't great at either!

ayjaycee

Sorry to chip in late on this one. It's very subjective but, IMHO, I don't believe that those medium Topeak bags (as mentioned by the OP) are particularly 'big, heavy and ugly and it ruins the sleek lines of my road bike' (or, at least, they are not as bad as the human being shaped object that sits on the saddle - I'm talking generally here and not about the OP!)). Again, IMHO, those bottle cage things are no better of worse to look at than said saddle bag and, as mentioned by others, they also take up valuable water space, particularly in the warmer months (or climes). More importantly from my point of view, I try to make it a policy not to put anything in my back pockets that's even slightly pointy and that might press into my back / spine in the even of a bad tumble. I am quite happy with my Topeak bag knowing that it contains everything that I need for most emergencies (ie. 2 inner tubes, CO2 head, 3 cylinders, 2 patches, 2 tyre lever, multi tool, chain tool and all the other smaller bits and bobs that seem necessary) - it switches very easily between road bikes and there is another on my hybrid containing similar stuff but tailored to the needs of that bike.

At the risk of picking at the CO2 pump scab yet again, I really don't understand how some people seem to have a problem using them. I've got a couple but the best by far is a little job that I got for a couple of quid from Aldi which has never let me down yet (although, touch wood, I tend not to get many punctures but now that I've said it probably will when I go out in a little while). In my case, the only thing that I have to remember is to make sure that the valve cores are very tight in the tube before they go in the bag otherwise you risk unscrewing the valve core along with the pump head or, even, dust cap. That's something that Continental ought to take care before they let a tube leave the factory.

svetty

I have Trek/Bontrager clip on bag which takes a couple of seconds to transfer from bike to bike. It's small but does take a Topeak Rocket minipump. Hence I always have a pump with me, it's not on the frame so not in the wind/getting mucky, nor is it taking up pocket space or getting forgotten, and I have both cages free for bottles.

Yes it does take 2-3 minutes pumping to get 80 PSI but as a reasonably fit cyclist this isn't a hardship.

It isn't all that obtrusive visually but frankly I couldn't give a **** about the aethetics!

Tashman

So will I get strung up for installing my pump on the frame?

timothyw

Saddlebags are completely fine imho, so long as they are not the kind that swing around under the saddle like a big old pair of bollocks.

If your saddlebag does that, you might as well attach some of these while you're at it:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/bi ... bike-light

The time to look pro is when you are doing a crit and don't mind walking back to your locker, or when you have a support car with you. The rest of the time, be practical and carry what you need - drop anyone that wants to give you shit about it.

laurentian

I have one of these:

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/lezy ... lsrc=aw.ds

The shape fits neatly in the centre rear pocket of my jerseys and the pocket doesn't sag. It is waterproof, lightly padded so that nothing sticks into my back when riding and fits:

CO2 pump and spare cartridge
Chain Splitter
1 x inner tube
several self adhesive patches (in case 1 tube is not enough!)
2 x Nitrile gloves
3 x of those lemon wipe things from KFC which are great for getting oil off your hands
2 x allen keys (I do not carry a relatively bulky and expensive multitool as there are only 2 sizes of hex bolt on my bike that I am ever going to use for roadside repairs/adjustment - cost pennies)
2 x Spare Quicklinks
1 x antihistamine tablet (allergy to beestings)
1 x section of innnertube for tyre boot if needed
1 x spoke key
and probably a couple of things I can't think of

I just put it in my pocket when going out for a ride - no changing of saddlebags, no use of water bottles.

You could probably use a suitably sized pencil case in the same way

kingstongraham

Doesn't it get sweaty underneath that? I would never choose to have all that in a pocket when there's another option. I'm trying to work out where to put my phone so it isn't in my pocket and is still accessible because even that annoys me.

laurentian

KingstonGraham wrote:

Doesn't it get sweaty underneath that? I would never choose to have all that in a pocket when there's another option. I'm trying to work out where to put my phone so it isn't in my pocket and is still accessible because even that annoys me.

Can honestly say it has ever caused me a problem - you must be sensitive to such things!!

svetty

With phone, cash, waterproof/gilet, emergency bail out gel, room to put discarded arm-warmers etc I find my pockets are reasonably comfortable when 1/2 to 2/3rds full. More than this and - esp when working hard, I get sweaty under them. I can't imagine loading spare tube, levers, multi-tool, pump etc in on top.

laurentian

Svetty wrote:

- esp when working hard,..

This could explain a lot

step83

Slowly hiding everything tool wise on the bike, Multi tool is mounted as park of the bottle cage, pump is now in the seat tube. Chain tool and missing links were in the stem cap. I have a small tool roll for the tube, can of air and adaptor a tiny patch kit an my phone. I don't like carrying my phone in my jersey because it gets sweaty an wet an also if you fall youll smash it an not be able to ring anyone.

Alex99

laurentian wrote:

Svetty wrote:

- esp when working hard,..

This could explain a lot

Yes, different considerations. Posing vs riding.

socrates

I liKe Pilot Petes Cyckit. A pity they are in New Zealand and online only. It is nice to see something in the flesh before buying but think I will go ahead and order one. If it looks crap on the good bike I can always use it on the winter steed.

antfly

socrates wrote:

I liKe Pilot Petes Cyckit. A pity they are in New Zealand and online only. It is nice to see something in the flesh before buying but think I will go ahead and order one. If it looks crap on the good bike I can always use it on the winter steed.

Have you got a Romin saddle ?