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Electrolytes in bottles + Protein Powders etc

DizeeeDizeee Posts: 337
edited September 2016 in Training, fitness and health
I have been covering decent yearly mileage now since 2013 and for 2017 I want to start introducing these 2 basic principles into my training, something I probably should have done yonks ago.

The majority of my weeks riding is a few 30-35 miles commutes, complete with rucksack, completed swiftly. I will then, if childcare/work allows, compliment this with weekend rides. I also slot in random rides as well, so my weekly mileage fluctuates anywhere 120 up to 220 miles in a good week. I am consistent, never going more than 24 hours off the bike, and incorporate a lot of variety into my routes / terrain.

I have never used electrolytes in drinks nor used protein. I think I probably should, so what is good to use and when? I usually put a lot of effort into every ride, and on a weekend chaingang I will be exhausted by the end. I do get very hungry / thirsty and so hence why I think it could be good to fuel properly rather than just drink squash and rarely take snacks with me. Currently I only take food out on a ride over 40 miles and even then not a lot of it. As for electrolytes - is it worth it and what /how to use?

Thanks

Posts

  • imposter2.0imposter2.0 Posts: 11,034
    If you haven't used them up to this point, then there is probably no benefit in starting. It suggests that you are already getting sufficient electrolytes and protein from other sources already.
  • fat daddyfat daddy Posts: 2,605
    Protien powders are a supplement, you only need thdm if you are not able to consume enough protein through your normal diet

    I only use thdm when cutting and want to maintain 0.8g per lb of lean body weight whilst not going over my calorie intake for the day ..... For the same amount of Protien in chicken they work out at half the calories .

    But really you don't need them a decent diet is better than a censored diet and having to supplement
  • I found that on more demanding trips, especially in hot weather, I'd need to drink really huge amounts of plain water. So the main reason I pack isotonic drinks is to help with hydration. And yes, it does help, although the extent may be very individual. My problem was that two bottles of plain water simply wasn't enough for me on a long trip in hot weather.
    That said, I only mix them into water when I know I'll be having a demanding trip. For shorter trips, i still pack plain water.

    When it comes to proteins, my assumption always was that it's either for those who don't have enough time to exercise regularly or just can't achieve the gains they were hoping for. And again, main point of exercising for me is to increase strength, not gain muscles.
  • When it comes to proteins, my assumption always was that it's either for those who don't have enough time to exercise regularly or just can't achieve the gains they were hoping for. And again, main point of exercising for me is to increase strength, not gain muscles.


    You know what they say about assumption?


    Protein is required for muscle repair - muscle repair is required to make muscles stronger, as well as bigger. More muscle requires more calories to maintain and therefore more protein to repair effectively.

    More muscular people burn fat more effectively purely because they have more muscle.
    Road - '10 Giant Defy 3.5
    MTB - '05 Scott Yecora
    BMX - '04 Haro Nyquist R24 (don't judge me)
  • You know what they say about assumption?


    Protein is required for muscle repair - muscle repair is required to make muscles stronger, as well as bigger. More muscle requires more calories to maintain and therefore more protein to repair effectively.

    More muscular people burn fat more effectively purely because they have more muscle.

    I'm talking purely about supplements and outside of professional bodybuilding.
  • okgookgo Posts: 4,368
    When it comes to proteins, my assumption always was that it's either for those who don't have enough time to exercise regularly or just can't achieve the gains they were hoping for. And again, main point of exercising for me is to increase strength, not gain muscles.


    You know what they say about assumption?


    Protein is required for muscle repair - muscle repair is required to make muscles stronger, as well as bigger. More muscle requires more calories to maintain and therefore more protein to repair effectively.

    More muscular people burn fat more effectively purely because they have more muscle.

    They also generally get worse at cycling given the low demands on 'strength' and muscle size in cycling.

    I would occasionally have a protein shake after a long hard ride if it was between meal times when I got back, otherwise I have not noticed any difference to how I feel the day following a hard ride.

    Obviously on a hot day, where you're doing a long ride 3hrs plus, then I should think replacing salts via electrolyte isn't a bad idea. Nuun make tablets, as do high 5. But for most riding these probably aren't required.
    Blog on my first and now second season of proper riding/racing - www.firstseasonracing.com
  • There are 3.9 g/100g proteins in a recovery drink

    There are 3.6 g/100g proteins in skimmed milk

    Price is similar... one it's made in a big chemical factory, the other is made by a cow... I know which one I'd rather have
  • fat daddyfat daddy Posts: 2,605
    okgo wrote:
    They also generally get worse at cycling given the low demands on 'strength' and muscle size in cycling..


    I think that all depends on your level and the type of cycling you do ...... its true that the GC leaders in the grand tours benefit from having the bodies of 12 year old girls ...... but look at the guys that win the 1 day classics etc ... Stannard isn't exactly a 10stone boy child

    then compare what they do compared to what your level is.

    And it comes apparent that having a visible biceps, pecs and deltoids, probably increases the time of your Sunday ride complete with cake stop, as would a Aero framed bike decrease your time.

    In other words ... censored all :D
  • okgookgo Posts: 4,368
    fat daddy wrote:
    okgo wrote:
    They also generally get worse at cycling given the low demands on 'strength' and muscle size in cycling..


    I think that all depends on your level and the type of cycling you do ...... its true that the GC leaders in the grand tours benefit from having the bodies of 12 year old girls ...... but look at the guys that win the 1 day classics etc ... Stannard isn't exactly a 10stone boy child

    then compare what they do compared to what your level is.

    And it comes apparent that having a visible biceps, pecs and deltoids, probably increases the time of your Sunday ride complete with cake stop, as would a Aero framed bike decrease your time.

    In other words ... fool all :D

    Stannard is still likely leaner than 99% of this forum. He's a skinny man among people with tiny frames, hence he looks big. He'd look tiny next to a normal bloke his height.

    Well, it does depend on what riding you do, but gaining muscle mass is very unlikely to make anyone quicker, at anything on the road, at any level.
    Blog on my first and now second season of proper riding/racing - www.firstseasonracing.com
  • okgo wrote:
    fat daddy wrote:
    okgo wrote:
    They also generally get worse at cycling given the low demands on 'strength' and muscle size in cycling..


    I think that all depends on your level and the type of cycling you do ...... its true that the GC leaders in the grand tours benefit from having the bodies of 12 year old girls ...... but look at the guys that win the 1 day classics etc ... Stannard isn't exactly a 10stone boy child

    then compare what they do compared to what your level is.

    And it comes apparent that having a visible biceps, pecs and deltoids, probably increases the time of your Sunday ride complete with cake stop, as would a Aero framed bike decrease your time.

    In other words ... fool all :D

    Stannard is still likely leaner than 99% of this forum. He's a skinny man among people with tiny frames, hence he looks big. He'd look tiny next to a normal bloke his height.

    Well, it does depend on what riding you do, but gaining muscle mass is very unlikely to make anyone quicker, at anything on the road, at any level.

    Okgo is 100% on the money here, most people have no idea how lean pro riders are. Greipel and Sagan wear jerseys that very few on this forum could even zip up.

    Unless you're doing track work or sprint work (which you aren't) then there is no reason for you to be concerned about your protein intake.

    The reason you are tired on rides is because of inadequate carbohydrate intake. On hard group rides you burn through your glycogen stores much quicker than a casual solo ride over the same time/distance.

    You bonk because you have no carbs>glycogen, your body doesn't use protein for energy.
  • your body doesn't use protein for energy.

    False! Google Ketosis.
  • okgookgo Posts: 4,368
    smudgerii wrote:
    your body doesn't use protein for energy.

    False! Google Ketosis.

    http://paleorunner.org/2013/11/high-int ... enic.html/

    Yeh looks great for a cyclist who likes to ride hard all the time. :roll:
    Blog on my first and now second season of proper riding/racing - www.firstseasonracing.com
  • drlodgedrlodge Posts: 4,824
    I use High5 isotonic in the warmer months, in winter squash is fine since sweating is minimal. The Isotonic gives a good mix of electrolytes and energy I find. Post ride recovery drink (if needed) is milk and something to eat very soon after getting home.
    WyndyMilla Massive Attack | Rourke 953 | Condor Italia 531 Pro | Boardman CX Pro | DT Swiss RR440 Tubeless Wheels
    Find me on Strava
  • okgo wrote:
    smudgerii wrote:
    your body doesn't use protein for energy.

    False! Google Ketosis.

    http://paleorunner.org/2013/11/high-int ... enic.html/

    Yeh looks great for a cyclist who likes to ride hard all the time. :roll:

    And where did I say anything about cycling? I just provided proof of your false statement...

    If you want to stick to cycling facts that would be good, because your 'facts' on nutrition are sadly lacking.
  • okgookgo Posts: 4,368
    smudgerii wrote:
    okgo wrote:
    smudgerii wrote:
    your body doesn't use protein for energy.

    False! Google Ketosis.

    http://paleorunner.org/2013/11/high-int ... enic.html/

    Yeh looks great for a cyclist who likes to ride hard all the time. :roll:

    And where did I say anything about cycling? I just provided proof of your false statement...

    If you want to stick to cycling facts that would be good, because your 'facts' on nutrition are sadly lacking.

    You've quoted the wrong person. So perhaps get back under the bridge and stick to scaring goats.
    Blog on my first and now second season of proper riding/racing - www.firstseasonracing.com
  • Wow. Kinda surprised I'm not the only one drinking milk after rides.
  • okgo wrote:
    smudgerii wrote:
    okgo wrote:
    smudgerii wrote:
    your body doesn't use protein for energy.

    False! Google Ketosis.

    http://paleorunner.org/2013/11/high-int ... enic.html/

    Yeh looks great for a cyclist who likes to ride hard all the time. :roll:

    And where did I say anything about cycling? I just provided proof of your false statement...

    If you want to stick to cycling facts that would be good, because your 'facts' on nutrition are sadly lacking.

    You've quoted the wrong person. So perhaps get back under the bridge and stick to scaring goats.

    Apologies... Need my readers before posting
  • Partial to a zero tab mesell .
    Trek,,,, too cool for school ,, apparently
  • smudgerii wrote:
    your body doesn't use protein for energy.

    False! Google Ketosis.

    You're right, being in ketosis is really good for cycling. Here is Chris Froome wining the TDF in ketosis https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_O8WaLbtCoQ

    Jonny Brownlee entered Ketosis the other day too, you might have seen it, he finished strong https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xb-g0gjRNGg
  • bobmcstuffbobmcstuff Posts: 9,138
    Wow. Kinda surprised I'm not the only one drinking milk after rides.
    Nesquik for me :)
  • I always use electrolyte tabs in my bottles if the ride is more than 1hr or has a serious amount of climbing/effort in it and see no negative effect.

    My OH has just started using them on her rides and commented yesterday on how much fresher on the ride she felt when using the tabs.
  • sungodsungod Posts: 13,210
    an awful lot of rabidly extreme positions being taken here over what are matters of personal choice/preference

    1 - electrolytes are unlikely to be necessary unless you're doing long rides in the heat over multiple days

    cramps due to low electrolyte levels aren't restricted to the legs but some mistakenly assume leg cramp must be due to it, whereas simple dehydration or other things like lack of fitness/flexibility are far more likely

    the tablets can make the water more palatable once it's got warm, it's not going to hurt

    use them if you want to, it's a matter of personal choice/preference - fwiw if it's hot i'll often use one purely for the taste

    2 - the milk/recovery thing has been done to death in multiple threads with a lot of misinformation/nonsense/ridiculous posturing from all sides

    after exercise like a hard ride there's ample scientific evidence that it's beneficial to replace carbs plus some protein within a short time of finishing the ride

    if you want to do it, how you do so is a matter of personal choice/preference - fwiw i use high5 choc recovery drink*, milk makes me feel sick and/or gag when i drink it, others will be happy to eat a meal right away

    3- protein powders after very hard exercise to build muscle strength, which imho is far beyond what can be done on a bike, protein is needed to maintain/repair/build muscle

    if you are doing this kind of exercise and want to supplement, how you do it is, guess what, a matter of personal choice/preference - fwiw i use cheap choc whey powder* after the hard gym sessions the physio has me do to rebuild strength after last year's injury, it's the cheapest, fastest way to get some protein in at a point where i really don't want food

    * in both cases, i find adding a teaspoon of cocoa powder makes a huge improvement in palatability, but i am a chocaholic, i also recognize that my personal choice/preference may not be right for others
    my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny
  • iPeteiPete Posts: 6,076
    sungod wrote:
    after exercise like a hard ride there's ample scientific evidence that it's beneficial to replace carbs plus some protein within a short time of finishing the ride


    This.

    Like the OP I've cycled for year but have just started to add some protein shakes after really hard sessions.

    More than anything, it's convenient.
  • smudgerii wrote:
    your body doesn't use protein for energy.

    False! Google Ketosis.

    You're right, being in ketosis is really good for cycling. Here is Chris Froome wining the TDF in ketosis https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_O8WaLbtCoQ

    Jonny Brownlee entered Ketosis the other day too, you might have seen it, he finished strong https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xb-g0gjRNGg


    I'm confused! Where did I say Ketosis was good for cycling? I merely pointed out your false statement...

    I have a preference for Ketosis if I'm dieting, but the first 2 - 3 weeks make any training tough to complete, after that I manage just fine. Everyone is different, thankfully, and competing in TDF ha never been a priority to me :roll:
  • twist83twist83 Posts: 761
    bobmcstuff wrote:
    Wow. Kinda surprised I'm not the only one drinking milk after rides.
    Nesquik for me :)

    Same here after a hard ride I don't feel like eating straight away. So Nesquick and Milk for me.

    I use the Electrolyte and on long rides the carb based drinks as well. Electrolyte tabs mainly for taste though.
  • mrfpbmrfpb Posts: 4,481
    I found that on more demanding trips, especially in hot weather, I'd need to drink really huge amounts of plain water. So the main reason I pack isotonic drinks is to help with hydration. And yes, it does help, although the extent may be very individual. My problem was that two bottles of plain water simply wasn't enough for me on a long trip in hot weather.
    That said, I only mix them into water when I know I'll be having a demanding trip. For shorter trips, i still pack plain water.

    This for me. Electrolytes for long hot weather riding, plain water in the winter or for short rides year round. I drink a lot, eg 4x750ml on a 50 mile ride in summer so keep topping up on the ride. Lots of electrolytes out there with lots of flavours to try. I have about a dozen high five tabs that came free with an Evans order. They are very handy as they are individually wrapped, so taking one out on a ride is no problem. Most brands make tubes of 10 or 20 tabs, which are less easy to pack.
  • I use Elete (http://eletewater.co.uk) which I drop in my water bottle at work - usually make up 1.5 litres per day whether I'm riding or not. When I am riding I usually put some fresh orange - water - Elete drops and away I go.

    As for recovery drinks (For Goodness Shakes) I only use them after hard 50+ mile rides.

    Scientifically do they work? Pass......................do I feel better for using them? Yes - I do and I suppose that's all that matters
  • hypsterhypster Posts: 1,183
    I think sungod has got it pretty much spot-on. The only thing I would add though is you don't need electrolytes in your drinks at all even over multiple days because presumably you will be eating in between rides as well and we get well more than we need in our diet which why sweat is salty. It's the body's way of ridding itself of the excess. I do accept though that some people prefer the flavour of a Zero tab for instance in their drinks.

    Personally I just drink plain water on shorter rides or add maltodextrin on the longer ones. I do have a protein recovery drink after a long and/or very physical (read hilly) ride.
  • smudgerii wrote:
    smudgerii wrote:
    your body doesn't use protein for energy.

    False! Google Ketosis.

    You're right, being in ketosis is really good for cycling. Here is Chris Froome wining the TDF in ketosis https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_O8WaLbtCoQ

    Jonny Brownlee entered Ketosis the other day too, you might have seen it, he finished strong https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xb-g0gjRNGg


    I'm confused! Where did I say Ketosis was good for cycling? I merely pointed out your false statement...

    I have a preference for Ketosis if I'm dieting, but the first 2 - 3 weeks make any training tough to complete, after that I manage just fine. Everyone is different, thankfully, and competing in TDF ha never been a priority to me :roll:

    This being a cycling forum, I assumed that people would want to fuel their bodies optimally for cycling performance. My mistake.
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