Is the iPhone 7 the death of Garmin ?

fat daddy

he obviously hasn't been using Android based phones long enough to realise its the same story .... hmmm lets upgrade my old htc desire ....... ah HTC stopped supporting a phone of this age so haven't released a ROM for it ..... no probs though, android is open source .... I can install my own rom .... first need to root the phone ... ah, issues, ok unlock the boot loader ... nope, need to downgrade to a 32bit OS to do it as the 64bit one doesn't play ball, find mate with 32bit OS ..... unlock the boot loader, root phone install custom Android rom .... and

fecking runs slow as shite !!!

sometimes, you just gotta upgrade !

Sleeper Service

I stopped using iPhones after the 4S. I just don't see the point in paying £600 plus for a phone when I can get one for less than half the price that does everything it does just as well without the stupid lock in.

I've got a Moto G3 now. I wouldn't have touched Android with a 10 foot pole up until Lollipop, but it's great now.

StillGoing

Sleeper Service wrote:

I stopped using iPhones after the 4S. I just don't see the point in paying £600 plus for a phone when I can get one for less than half the price that does everything it does just as well without the stupid lock in.

I've got a Moto G3 now. I wouldn't have touched Android with a 10 foot pole up until Lollipop, but it's great now.

My current iPhone I have is the last one I'll buy. Too many OS updates and I agree every time it does it, something doesn't work properly so we have to wait for the next update and something else to fail. But, the biggest bug bear for me is that without RSAP, it is nigh on useless in the car. Back to Android for me.

ben@31

OTRveloClub wrote:

The new battery giving longer operating time on the new iphone 7

sorry I'll stop laughing in a bit.
It will have to be a miraculous leap in improvement.

super_davo

One thing I am surprised at it that nobody has tried to make an Android bike computer yet.
Wouldn't be hard or expensive. You could make appropriate hardware thereby eliminating most of the arguments against phones, and run a multitude of tracking and mapping apps which somebody else has already developed for you.
Native android also has a much simpler and more familiar UI than anything out there on the bike computer market. You can get Android cameras, TV boxes etc - it's not just for phones.

Anonymous

super_davo wrote:

One thing I am surprised at it that nobody has tried to make an Android bike computer yet.
Wouldn't be hard or expensive. You could make appropriate hardware thereby eliminating most of the arguments against phones, and run a multitude of tracking and mapping apps which somebody else has already developed for you.
Native android also has a much simpler and more familiar UI than anything out there on the bike computer market. You can get Android cameras, TV boxes etc - it's not just for phones.

I think that could be a workable idea. It could also be used in any small device like a watch to take on the Apple watch etc. The thing with these sorts of gadgets is the minefield of patents on other devices.

joecamel

Back to the original question.
My new iPhone will not replace my Garmin 810.
The Garmin is awesome for on and off road, fixed to my bars in all weathers, with a silicone case on it that has taken all kinds of abuse and it's still working just fine.
My iphone may be a fantastic bit of kit but I'll be shocked, no astounded, if it lasts 2 years from everyday normal use (that's without strapping it to my bars and heading down Nan Bield).

kingstongraham

fat daddy wrote:

he obviously hasn't been using Android based phones long enough to realise its the same story .... hmmm lets upgrade my old htc desire ....... ah HTC stopped supporting a phone of this age so haven't released a ROM for it ..... no probs though, android is open source .... I can install my own rom .... first need to root the phone ... ah, issues, ok unlock the boot loader ... nope, need to downgrade to a 32bit OS to do it as the 64bit one doesn't play ball, find mate with 32bit OS ..... unlock the boot loader, root phone install custom Android rom .... and

******* runs slow as shite !!!

sometimes, you just gotta upgrade !

Yes but a half decent Android phone is £150. An iPhone isn't.

fat daddy

I don't really see how the price of an iphone changes the fact that both operating companies, stop supporting old tech and its a ball ache to try and upgrade it and when you do manage it, it doesn't run that great, necessitating the need to finally admit that technology moves on and its about time you upgrade the actual hardware..

could you imagine if companies did keep supporting old tech, the OS would be massive in size having to contain kernels and drivers for older chipsets

Likewise on the price its no different to having Rapha vs planet x, Pinarello vs Boardman etc etc etc ..... some stuff is just more expensive

markhewitt1978

How often do you need to firmware update your Garmin's then? Is updating that important if you just want to use it as a bike computer?

kingstongraham

fat daddy wrote:

I don't really see how the price of an iphone changes the fact that both operating companies, stop supporting old tech and its a ball ache to try and upgrade it and when you do manage it, it doesn't run that great, necessitating the need to finally admit that technology moves on and its about time you upgrade the actual hardware..

could you imagine if companies did keep supporting old tech, the OS would be massive in size having to contain kernels and drivers for older chipsets

Likewise on the price its no different to having Rapha vs planet x, Pinarello vs Boardman etc etc etc ..... some stuff is just more expensive

I thought half the point of paying more for Rapha was that you tell yourself they last longer.

fat daddy

I guess they do last longer ... but only because you drag out the ownership until you can afford to replace them ....... oddly enough the same way I have done with the iphones, need a new phone .... cant afford a new iphone, drag this one on a bit longer more

philwint

Sort of relates....

I have just binned my old Garmin 810 having got fed up with it hanging frequently, connectivity issues with my power meter, and the fact I hate the UI.

There is no way a phone could replace it

But my Wahoo Element has proved to be superior in every way (In my normal useage), and is cheaper than the garmins.

So I think Garmin's will die out, unless they really up their software (and especially UI) game. But it will be alternative dedicated devices that kill them not phones (of whichever flavour)

markhewitt1978

I too have found the Wahoo ELEMNT superior in almost every way to Garmins I've tried. But they have a struggle breaking into the market place when people use 'Garmin' as a generic term for a cycle computer, as if they're the only company that make them.

perfectmark

super_davo wrote:

One thing I am surprised at it that nobody has tried to make an Android bike computer yet.
Wouldn't be hard or expensive. You could make appropriate hardware thereby eliminating most of the arguments against phones, and run a multitude of tracking and mapping apps which somebody else has already developed for you.
Native android also has a much simpler and more familiar UI than anything out there on the bike computer market. You can get Android cameras, TV boxes etc - it's not just for phones.

Canyon announced details of an Android based cycle computer (it was actually based on a Sony smart watch), but nothing ever seems to have come of it. I would personally love something like that, but until they do I make do with my iPhone 5 mounted to the handlebars.

bendertherobot

I'm still on the verge of sending my 520 back as, on every start of every ride, it loses satellites for 20 seconds or so. If/when I do I'll either get money back and just get a 25 or spend the extra and get the Elemnt.

Garmin's death will only come as other more viable similar products come about. But they are hugely ahead on terms of brand awareness (as said above Garmin is a term not just a brand).

anjasola

Garmin unreliable rubbish in my opinion.

rumbataz

I'm a big Apple fan and about to order an iPhone 7. However, for cycling it's hard to beat a Garmin. The display is fantastic and I like how it works out the best colour combo and contrast to remain completely visible in all weather conditions. I have a Garmin Edge 1000 with heart-rate strap and cadence and speed sensors on both my bikes.

The simplicity is brilliant and the latest Garmin updates have added many useful new features. Battery life has never been an issue for me. It's a rugged device that is held nicely with a fantastic 'out-front' mount - just twist on and twist off.

The only thing I'd ever use an iPhone for is as a pedometer and with Endomondo for walking and running.

StillGoing

philwint wrote:

But my Wahoo Element has proved to be superior in every way (In my normal useage), and is cheaper than the garmins.

So I think Garmin's will die out, unless they really up their software (and especially UI) game. But it will be alternative dedicated devices that kill them not phones (of whichever flavour)

I ride with somebody that has a Wahoo Elemnt and admits it has problems. Wahoo operate in the same way that Garmin do using the customer as the tester. What is anticipated and hoped for, is that Wahoo respond to problems a damn sight quicker than Garmin do. The fact that the Wahoo is also black and white is not necessarily better than a colour screen for many and the lack of proper mapping is also an issue.

There is not a cat in hell chance of Garmin dying out. They are the market leader in navigation devices for vast sections of the sports world as well as having devices for travel on land sea and in air. Yes their public service needs a kick in the pants, but the likes of Wahoo, Polar, Cat Eye, Mio and Bryton etc are going to struggle to knock Garmin out of the game completely. On the few occasions when a Garmin is plagued with problems, they can be a curse. But, on the much greater days when they work perfectly, nothing beats them.

bendertherobot

Well said. If TomTom took the bike market seriously that would stand more chance. At the moment the others are also rans.

philwint

philthy3 wrote:

philwint wrote:

But my Wahoo Element has proved to be superior in every way (In my normal useage), and is cheaper than the garmins.

So I think Garmin's will die out, unless they really up their software (and especially UI) game. But it will be alternative dedicated devices that kill them not phones (of whichever flavour)

I ride with somebody that has a Wahoo Elemnt and admits it has problems. Wahoo operate in the same way that Garmin do using the customer as the tester. What is anticipated and hoped for, is that Wahoo respond to problems a damn sight quicker than Garmin do. The fact that the Wahoo is also black and white is not necessarily better than a colour screen for many and the lack of proper mapping is also an issue.

The important caveat in my original post is the bit I have just bolded above. It's important to understand that everyone is different, and probably looking for subtly different things from a device.

So for instance I find the black and white screen far easier to read on the Elemnt, especially when following a route. I'm slightly color blind and picking out the purple route line from the red road line (or whatever) on the Garmin has always been a struggle, and is even more so in bright light. The obvious chevrons on the elemnt are much easier for me to follow.

On maps: I had the Garmin road map card for my 810, and the maps were very good, but the base map on the wahoo isn't 'worse' on my opinion. What you can't do on the elemnt is pan around the map, it is locked on with your position central. I have noticed that, but haven't found a situation yet where it is a problem.

What caused me to switch was a 14 day cycling holiday in France at the start of the summer. We were a group of about 20. My Garmin locked up on two days (losing the ride data when i rebooted it) and almost every day this happened to someone in the group. That pushed me over the edge in tolerating the garmin's downsides. It also lost connectivity to my power meter on about a third of the days. In the 2 months I've had the Elemnt I haven't had any problems. That's not to say there won't be any, just I haven't had them yet!

So, in my normal day to day use the Elemnt is better for me than my 810 was. That doesn't mean it is better for everyone of course.

alfalund

ddraver wrote:

A little, I guess you still need your phone in your pocket though. I mean a whole different device but which doesnt count (and cost) as a second phone. Ideally it would only do outgoing calls too

Exactly - if you already have an iPhone 7 and you anyway bring it on your rides, why would you buy a Garmin Edge?

Both an Edge and an iPhone could be damaged if you crash, also if you keep the phone in your pocket.

If anything, then single purpose devices like the Edge will be a harder sell as multi purpose devices can do the same.

I have an old Edge, but will not replace once it dies. But I have a Garmin fënix smart watch with built in wrist HRM and step counter, which also works for paddling cadence - very versatile :-)

bendertherobot

alfalund wrote:

ddraver wrote:

A little, I guess you still need your phone in your pocket though. I mean a whole different device but which doesnt count (and cost) as a second phone. Ideally it would only do outgoing calls too

Exactly - if you already have an iPhone 7 and you anyway bring it on your rides, why would you buy a Garmin Edge?

Both an Edge and an iPhone could be damaged if you crash, also if you keep the phone in your pocket.

If anything, then single purpose devices like the Edge will be a harder sell as multi purpose devices can do the same.

I have an old Edge, but will not replace once it dies. But I have a Garmin fënix smart watch with built in wrist HRM and step counter, which also works for paddling cadence - very versatile :-)

I could drop my Edge from the upstairs window and be pretty confident it still works

StillGoing

bendertherobot wrote:

alfalund wrote:

ddraver wrote:

A little, I guess you still need your phone in your pocket though. I mean a whole different device but which doesnt count (and cost) as a second phone. Ideally it would only do outgoing calls too

Exactly - if you already have an iPhone 7 and you anyway bring it on your rides, why would you buy a Garmin Edge?

Both an Edge and an iPhone could be damaged if you crash, also if you keep the phone in your pocket.

If anything, then single purpose devices like the Edge will be a harder sell as multi purpose devices can do the same.

I have an old Edge, but will not replace once it dies. But I have a Garmin fënix smart watch with built in wrist HRM and step counter, which also works for paddling cadence - very versatile :-)

I could drop my Edge from the upstairs window and be pretty confident it still works

Alternatively, I could drop my iPhone from 2ft and be pretty confident the screen will smash.

frisbee

I could pummel a motorist to death while playing Pokémon Go with my old IPhone in its Gorilla case.

My new one, tucked in my back pocket recording a ride for 3 hours yesterday, still had 80% charge left.

I don't want to mount it on my handlebars but then I don't particularly want to spend £300 on a Garmin that does proper routing (which is about the only thing I would need it for as I want to explore some new areas).

Anonymous

frisbee wrote:

I don't particularly want to spend £300 on a Garmin

But I am happy spending £800 on an iPhone every other year plus extortionate data fees which add almost another £300 over an 18 month contract.

Makes that Garmin look a bargain at twice the price.

iPete

On that note, I've just looked it up and my Garmin 800 is 4 1/4 years old.

In answer to the OP (who is probably just fishing for clicks) no, no and no. Neither will the iPhone 8, 9 or 10.

frisbee

Maglia Rosa wrote:

frisbee wrote:

I don't particularly want to spend £300 on a Garmin

But I am happy spending £800 on an iPhone every other year plus extortionate data fees which add almost another £300 over an 18 month contract.

Makes that Garmin look a bargain at twice the price.

£400 outright every 5 years, £10/month contract. So no, I wouldn't be happy to spend the mythical sums in your post. (I would have gone for an Android phone but after my experiences with an Android tablet I would rather cut of my own foot!)

£300 still looks expensive for something that has very limited functionality and is 5 years out of date the day you buy it. Hopefully Wahoo and the rest will give the GPS market a kick up the butt.

Anonymous

frisbee wrote:

Maglia Rosa wrote:

frisbee wrote:

I don't particularly want to spend £300 on a Garmin

But I am happy spending £800 on an iPhone every other year plus extortionate data fees which add almost another £300 over an 18 month contract.

Makes that Garmin look a bargain at twice the price.

£400 outright every 5 years, £10/month contract. So no, I wouldn't be happy to spend the mythical sums in your post. (I would have gone for an Android phone but after my experiences with an Android tablet I would rather cut of my own foot!)

£300 still looks expensive for something that has very limited functionality and is 5 years out of date the day you buy it. Hopefully Wahoo and the rest will give the GPS market a kick up the butt.

If you think you can get an iphone for 400 quid you are living on another planet! You pay either up front or in your contract either way its more than 400

StillGoing

frisbee wrote:

Maglia Rosa wrote:

frisbee wrote:

I don't particularly want to spend £300 on a Garmin

But I am happy spending £800 on an iPhone every other year plus extortionate data fees which add almost another £300 over an 18 month contract.

Makes that Garmin look a bargain at twice the price.

£300 still looks expensive for something that has very limited functionality and is 5 years out of date the day you buy it. Hopefully Wahoo and the rest will give the GPS market a kick up the butt.

What? Limited functionality only by the users ability to use it correctly. Want to know power? How do you want the data? 3 sec, 5 sec, 10 sec average? L/R balance and averages? Time on zone? etc etc. Same applies with cadence, speed, heart rate and not forgetting the navigational functions. Throw in the Garmin Connect IQ apps and you get ever more options.

£297 for a Garmin 820 against £500 to buy outright for iPhone 6s that certainly has limited functionality and ability to withstand minor knocks and then add on the cost of data downloads, text messaging and phone calls.

A Garmin is certainly not out of date the day you buy it either. A mobile phone is though. No sooner have you got your paws on that latest smart phone, out comes news of the next model drawing in the fan boys before it even hits the stores. Like lambs to the slaughter.

Garmin cock up as do all the cycle computer manufacturers. Garmin are the biggest name in the business and so get all the adverse publicity simple by course of units sold in comparison to the other manufacturers. But Garmin also get it right (as do the others).