Is the iPhone 7 the death of Garmin ?

markhewitt1978

ddraver wrote:

As always apple are about 5 years behind Samsung or htc and I have nt seen them replacing any Garmins

So no...

(there is a market for some sort of phone companion tthat would do Calls, Texts, music and maybe basic internet that fits in a jersey pocket properly and runs off of your normal phone somehow...)

Yes I'd basically like two phones. A small iPhone 4S sort of sized one which is for cycling or other times you don't want a big phone with you. And a full sized iPhone for everything else. You can do that at the moment but it would mean taking the SIM card out of one phone and putting it in the other, you'd think with all the integration etc they've done there would be a way to hand off the phone number from one phone to another using software. Not to mention the cost of having two phones in the first place of course.

Anonymous

markhewitt1978 wrote:

Maglia Rosa wrote:

I will never buy an iPhone again. Many people like me don't want Apple products. I do still want a Garmin.

Eventually your iPhone will die. Apple even admit their products have short lifespans. Your garmin will continue to function well after your phone has given up the ghost. The thing is your iPhone's projected lifespan will never improve cos Apple want your money and want you to upgrade every year with another rehashed slightly faster slighty thinner phone which will become slow after filling up with bloatware and iOS updates stealing your useable storage space.

I on the other hand will keep on spinning happily with my dedicated Garmin

It's off topic, but I can't agree with this at all. Yes; there's a phone out every year, but if you look at the likes of OS releases Apple are one of the few that continue to support old devices many years after they're released, unlike others which seem to abandon their offerings as soon as they come out (I remember Nokia!). iOS 10 is out tomorrow and it still supports the iPhone 5 which was released in 2012, and that's being supported with the latest OS, they'll of course continue to function even after that's dropped.

The main problem with iPhones is the battery, it wears out before anything else, and if you're going to keep your iPhone beyond say 2 years it'll likely need replacing.

But of course you're quite right, the expected lifespan of a phone is still going to be way less than a cycle computer as it's a single purpose device and rightly so.

Just to clarify. Yes they do keep supporting older phones with os updates but the updates to certain apps may NOT be supported. Apple don't control the system requirements of 3rd party apps. This means although you have the current iOS version, the app will not be supported. I had thos with the iphone 4. It still has a very outdated version of Strava on it so a lot of new features are missing.

bendertherobot

fat daddy wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

But that applies to the Galaxy S7 and S7 Edge both of which have better waterproofing .

he could also have not singled out Garmin, as there other bike GPS dvices as well ie Wahoo, Mio, etc ...

I guess we need about 20 threads o cover all the possibilities ie

s7 + garmin
s7 + wahoo
s7 + mio
i7 + garmin
i7 + .... blah

Just incase someone takes offence to their choice of device not being mentioned

Indeed, but there does seem to be quite a lot of evangelism about the iPhone 7 launch. Not unusual for Apple, but quite unusual given there's nothing awfully significant about it. I was surprised to see Cycling Weekly do a piece following last week's launch.

Of course Garmin still occupy the majority of this market so, in many ways, dealing with Garmin as if you're dealing with a generic description is fair game. We know that Garmin = GPS units. The iPhone won't kill GPS units, and for many of the reasons stated, neither will smartphones.

bendertherobot

ddraver wrote:

As always apple are about 5 years behind Samsung or htc and I have nt seen them replacing any Garmins

So no...

(there is a market for some sort of phone companion tthat would do Calls, Texts, music and maybe basic internet that fits in a jersey pocket properly and runs off of your normal phone somehow...)

That Wahoo RFLTK thing does some of that.

sloppyschleckonds

I saw someone riding the other day, iPhone mounted on stem, garmin out front mount. Saddle pack, tri bars, top bar saddle pack, rain jacket while it was 20+ degrees, so yes there is definitely a market for these type of people

Ben6899

Key point is you look like a massive chopper, with a comparatively huge iPhone strapped to the handlebars. But if it goes well with your helmet cam and elbow pads, then you fill your boots.

ddraver

bendertherobot wrote:

ddraver wrote:

As always apple are about 5 years behind Samsung or htc and I have nt seen them replacing any Garmins

So no...

(there is a market for some sort of phone companion tthat would do Calls, Texts, music and maybe basic internet that fits in a jersey pocket properly and runs off of your normal phone somehow...)

That Wahoo RFLTK thing does some of that.

A little, I guess you still need your phone in your pocket though. I mean a whole different device but which doesnt count (and cost) as a second phone. Ideally it would only do outgoing calls too

whatleytom

Expected thread title to be is the iPhone 7 the death of the iPhone. More along my line of thinking anyway.

I have an iphone 6 but won't be buying another in all liklihood.

Is it the death of the Garmin? Not even close. Battery life would probably only last a few hours with screen fully lit, and with no ANT+ support doesn't match with all of my bikes power meters/HR, and I imagine well over 60% of other folks accessories. Not to mention the size of the item to attach to your bars. Would rather have something smaller than current 810, not larger.

weezyswiss

Why would I bolt a huge phone to my bars?

A resounding and definite no, forget I do not like iOS at all, I would not even use an Android phone. I carry a phone for emergency use or updates as to time I'll be home etc. The battery life on a phone once you power up a radio interface and screen is useless. I'll 5+ year old stick to my garmin device for more accurate and reliable GPS and longer battery life with mapping on a screen I can see and leave the phone in a back pocket where it should be.

A phone trades off too many things at the moment, but the battery life is just too poor to even consider, plus it is too expensive and large to front mount. I can't even use a smart watch due to the stupid battery life when my garmin vivoactive gives me 9 days on a single charge, with tracking and activities recorded.

Phones have a MASSIVE way to move forward to even consider being a replacement, without even considering their huge size making you look like a muppet !!

whatleytom

markhewitt1978 wrote:

ddraver wrote:

As always apple are about 5 years behind Samsung or htc and I have nt seen them replacing any Garmins

So no...

(there is a market for some sort of phone companion tthat would do Calls, Texts, music and maybe basic internet that fits in a jersey pocket properly and runs off of your normal phone somehow...)

Yes I'd basically like two phones. A small iPhone 4S sort of sized one which is for cycling or other times you don't want a big phone with you. And a full sized iPhone for everything else. You can do that at the moment but it would mean taking the SIM card out of one phone and putting it in the other, you'd think with all the integration etc they've done there would be a way to hand off the phone number from one phone to another using software. Not to mention the cost of having two phones in the first place of course.

Advantage of having a 6 plus for personal use, and a 5s for work use, typically take the 5s with me on rides and with barely any apps installed the battery is multiples better on the older phone.

Vslowpace

I wouldn't want to race with an iphone in my back pocket let alone one jutting out on the bars waiting to be smashed.

So until they drop the price by about £500 i'd say not yet.

cgfw201

The next iterations of Gamin like devices will surely be built into stems and bars with new bikes within a couple of years. That is a far better solution than bolting a big ugly phone to the bike.

fat daddy

oh great .. a built in device.

Hmm, its raining, think I'll take the winter bike today. Unwrap handle bars, remove shifters, undo stem, take bars off, but on winter bike attach brakes, rewrap

suppose I could always buy 2 garmin handle bars, one for each bike .... probably better as when one of them is posted back to garmin to repair I can still use the other one

kingstongraham

cgfw201 wrote:

The next iterations of Gamin like devices will surely be built into stems and bars with new bikes within a couple of years. That is a far better solution than bolting a big ugly phone to the bike.

I look forward to bringing my bike in to charge it every few rides.

fat daddy

or sit with my bike on my lap infront of the TV whilst I spend ages in the UI trying to turn autopause off

kingstongraham

KingstonGraham wrote:

cgfw201 wrote:

The next iterations of Gamin like devices will surely be built into stems and bars with new bikes within a couple of years. That is a far better solution than bolting a big ugly phone to the bike.

I look forward to bringing my bike in to charge it every few rides.

Actually if it's iphone based, make that every night whether I've ridden it or not.

Apparently, they are really proud that they've developed a watch that can go a whole day without needing to be recharged. The dream of watchmakers throughout history.

DavidJB

cgfw201 wrote:

The next iterations of Gamin like devices will surely be built into stems and bars with new bikes within a couple of years. That is a far better solution than bolting a big ugly phone to the bike.

No they wont.

cgfw201

DavidJB wrote:

cgfw201 wrote:

The next iterations of Gamin like devices will surely be built into stems and bars with new bikes within a couple of years. That is a far better solution than bolting a big ugly phone to the bike.

No they wont.

...turns out they already exist.

Far better solution in the long run. Needs a dynamo or mini solar panel charger ideally but this is the future.

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/videos/c ... mputer-yet

type:epyt

The question asked in the thread title by the OP reads like one of the 'promoted stories' nonsense at the bottom of the site ...

He'll be asking if matches are the death of gloves next ... 'Fire keeps your hands warm and has so many other functions blah, blah, bleurgh ...'

Cyclists can be a thick bunch sometimes ...

negativelycra

markhewitt1978 wrote:

Maglia Rosa wrote:

I will never buy an iPhone again. Many people like me don't want Apple products. I do still want a Garmin.

Eventually your iPhone will die. Apple even admit their products have short lifespans. Your garmin will continue to function well after your phone has given up the ghost. The thing is your iPhone's projected lifespan will never improve cos Apple want your money and want you to upgrade every year with another rehashed slightly faster slighty thinner phone which will become slow after filling up with bloatware and iOS updates stealing your useable storage space.

I on the other hand will keep on spinning happily with my dedicated Garmin

It's off topic, but I can't agree with this at all. Yes; there's a phone out every year, but if you look at the likes of OS releases Apple are one of the few that continue to support old devices many years after they're released, unlike others which seem to abandon their offerings as soon as they come out (I remember Nokia!). iOS 10 is out tomorrow and it still supports the iPhone 5 which was released in 2012, and that's being supported with the latest OS, they'll of course continue to function even after that's dropped.

The main problem with iPhones is the battery, it wears out before anything else, and if you're going to keep your iPhone beyond say 2 years it'll likely need replacing.

But of course you're quite right, the expected lifespan of a phone is still going to be way less than a cycle computer as it's a single purpose device and rightly so.

I love this. Apple don't continue to support older phones. They continue to force "upgrades" to the latest software that the older phone is unable to run.
My wife's iphone 4s (rememeber them) one day said "no more run keeper, you need the new one". The functionality to continue using the phone as purchased was removed. Guess what? To install new runkeeper, you have to have ios 9. an OS that older kit like a 4S simply can't run well. Once you install the upgrade, you can't go back. Safari crashes even on basic websites, and even typing sometimes gets delayed by 2-3s from finger press to it actally going "in" as it were.

The "support" isn't altruistic, it's engineered obsolescence. I wouldn't have an issue if we'd elected to "upgrade" to an OS that the hardware isn't capable of running, but the option is removed by Apple - no OS change, none of your apps work. One by one, the functionality you bought and paid for is removed until you're forced to either buy the new one, or jump ship, lose your software and buy into Android's ecosystem instead.

roger_merriman

Negativelycra wrote:

markhewitt1978 wrote:

Maglia Rosa wrote:

I will never buy an iPhone again. Many people like me don't want Apple products. I do still want a Garmin.

Eventually your iPhone will die. Apple even admit their products have short lifespans. Your garmin will continue to function well after your phone has given up the ghost. The thing is your iPhone's projected lifespan will never improve cos Apple want your money and want you to upgrade every year with another rehashed slightly faster slighty thinner phone which will become slow after filling up with bloatware and iOS updates stealing your useable storage space.

I on the other hand will keep on spinning happily with my dedicated Garmin

It's off topic, but I can't agree with this at all. Yes; there's a phone out every year, but if you look at the likes of OS releases Apple are one of the few that continue to support old devices many years after they're released, unlike others which seem to abandon their offerings as soon as they come out (I remember Nokia!). iOS 10 is out tomorrow and it still supports the iPhone 5 which was released in 2012, and that's being supported with the latest OS, they'll of course continue to function even after that's dropped.

The main problem with iPhones is the battery, it wears out before anything else, and if you're going to keep your iPhone beyond say 2 years it'll likely need replacing.

But of course you're quite right, the expected lifespan of a phone is still going to be way less than a cycle computer as it's a single purpose device and rightly so.

I love this. Apple don't continue to support older phones. They continue to force "upgrades" to the latest software that the older phone is unable to run.
My wife's iphone 4s (rememeber them) one day said "no more run keeper, you need the new one". The functionality to continue using the phone as purchased was removed. Guess what? To install new runkeeper, you have to have ios 9. an OS that older kit like a 4S simply can't run well. Once you install the upgrade, you can't go back. Safari crashes even on basic websites, and even typing sometimes gets delayed by 2-3s from finger press to it actally going "in" as it were.

The "support" isn't altruistic, it's engineered obsolescence. I wouldn't have an issue if we'd elected to "upgrade" to an OS that the hardware isn't capable of running, but the option is removed by Apple - no OS change, none of your apps work. One by one, the functionality you bought and paid for is removed until you're forced to either buy the new one, or jump ship, lose your software and buy into Android's ecosystem instead.

Apple are far from perfect but in terms of updates and supporting their older kit, they are by far the leaders.

Android devices timely security updates or rather the lack of them, pick your phone maker wisely mainly just Nexus devices all other makers take there time, or just don't. have a look at Stagefright for check on how ios and Android handle bugs.

My folks have older iphone 4s can't say for their uses I've noticed or they have complained about ios9 clearly if it's something very RAM or CPU heavy it's a a 5 year old bit of kit. but they email/browse/facetime/facebook and so on.

neeb

As others have said, GPS accuracy and battery life just aren't up to it really and these are 2 of the most important attributes of a bike computer. Also, needing an adaptor to receive ANT+ makes it a cludge to pair with a PM or whatever. But a big factor for me would be the lack of actual physical buttons on the front for stop/start, laps etc. My iphone does my head in enough as it is by doing things I didn't want it to do just because I hit the wrong square milimetre of the screen, and that's when I'm relaxed and sitting down, not fumbling to find the lap button in severe oxygen debt with sweat on the inside of the glasses etc..

kingstongraham

cgfw201 wrote:

DavidJB wrote:

cgfw201 wrote:

The next iterations of Gamin like devices will surely be built into stems and bars with new bikes within a couple of years. That is a far better solution than bolting a big ugly phone to the bike.

No they wont.

...turns out they already exist.

Far better solution in the long run. Needs a dynamo or mini solar panel charger ideally but this is the future.

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/videos/c ... mputer-yet

It just doesn't make sense for most riders. When the time to upgrade comes, I'd have to change the stem on every bike after buying it for every bike? Or if I hire a bike, how do I use it?

cgfw201

KingstonGraham wrote:

cgfw201 wrote:

DavidJB wrote:

cgfw201 wrote:

The next iterations of Gamin like devices will surely be built into stems and bars with new bikes within a couple of years. That is a far better solution than bolting a big ugly phone to the bike.

No they wont.

...turns out they already exist.

Far better solution in the long run. Needs a dynamo or mini solar panel charger ideally but this is the future.

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/videos/c ... mputer-yet

It just doesn't make sense for most riders. When the time to upgrade comes, I'd have to change the stem on every bike after buying it for every bike? Or if I hire a bike, how do I use it?

It's obviously not going to happen overnight. Garmin's in their current guise will remain normal for at least 2-5 years. But there's no reason why these units integrated into the bike can't work in the near future. Plenty of bikes already have the ANT+ speed and cadence sensors built into the frames.

roger_merriman

cgfw201 wrote:

KingstonGraham wrote:

cgfw201 wrote:

DavidJB wrote:

cgfw201 wrote:

The next iterations of Gamin like devices will surely be built into stems and bars with new bikes within a couple of years. That is a far better solution than bolting a big ugly phone to the bike.

No they wont.

...turns out they already exist.

Far better solution in the long run. Needs a dynamo or mini solar panel charger ideally but this is the future.

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/videos/c ... mputer-yet

It just doesn't make sense for most riders. When the time to upgrade comes, I'd have to change the stem on every bike after buying it for every bike? Or if I hire a bike, how do I use it?

It's obviously not going to happen overnight. Garmin's in their current guise will remain normal for at least 2-5 years. But there's no reason why these units integrated into the bike can't work in the near future. Plenty of bikes already have the ANT+ speed and cadence sensors built into the frames.

There is every reason to think that the technology will continue at the same rate, thus built in would end up looking fairly dated quickly, plus the sort of person who has a garmin, is also the person who has a number of bikes etc.

Built in sat nav for cars works well, but bikes I think is a harder sell.

It is true the mobile phone has swallowed tech, remeber PDA's? But I think a garmin or alike will stay.

kingstongraham

roger merriman wrote:

Built in sat nav for cars works well, but bikes I think is a harder sell.

The built in sat nav in my 2 year old car already looks primitive next to what I can get on the phone.

bendertherobot

KingstonGraham wrote:

roger merriman wrote:

Built in sat nav for cars works well, but bikes I think is a harder sell.

The built in sat nav in my 2 year old car already looks primitive next to what I can get on the phone.

It does. And in most cases google maps is better. But you need to beware data drainage (particularly abroad) and have a car charger that can keep up with the power drain of the phone as well.

neeb

Well, the stem would be the perfect place for integration - just replace it when the technology is dated. Although making a stem/garmin combo available in a range of different lengths and angles might be tricky, and ironically the trend towards integration of the stem with bars and/or frame conflicts with the objective. Perhaps what is needed is a standardised slot / recess in all stems, into which a computer from any manufacturer could be fitted?

kingstongraham

bendertherobot wrote:

KingstonGraham wrote:

roger merriman wrote:

Built in sat nav for cars works well, but bikes I think is a harder sell.

The built in sat nav in my 2 year old car already looks primitive next to what I can get on the phone.

It does. And in most cases google maps is better. But you need to beware data drainage (particularly abroad) and have a car charger that can keep up with the power drain of the phone as well.

Agreed, but my point was that I don't see it as a good thing to have everything built in because it makes it more difficult to upgrade when technology improves. If a built in "garmin" came with my bike 5 years ago, it wouldn't look so impressive now.

(Plus "Here" works pretty well without using any data when abroad, as does google with downloaded maps as long as you don't mind about not getting traffic rerouting.)

markhewitt1978

Negativelycra wrote:

The "support" isn't altruistic, it's engineered obsolescence. I wouldn't have an issue if we'd elected to "upgrade" to an OS that the hardware isn't capable of running, but the option is removed by Apple - no OS change, none of your apps work. One by one, the functionality you bought and paid for is removed until you're forced to either buy the new one, or jump ship, lose your software and buy into Android's ecosystem instead.

No OS updates for old phones "Apple is forcing us to buy new hardware to run the new OS"
Free OS updates for old phones "It's engineered obsolescence"

One of those situations where if someone has got a grudge against a company it doesn't matter what they do, it'll be wrong.