Is Di2 worth it?

elliot.baker

Hello all

I'm thinking of getting a road bike (for the first time, from a full sus mtb) and I'm torn between getting the cheapest possible bike that Decathlon sell or saving up and busting out 2k on something decent... If I'm spending that much I was hoping to get Di2, but what do users think? Is it like a life changing revolution in gear changing or is it more of a gimmick/fad?

Is 2k near the mark for a Di2 road bike?

Cheers
EB

fenix

I'd not spend 2 grand on my first road bike. You may not like it.

DI2 is nice but I've not got it. I'm thinking of SRAM Etape when I get a spare grand. Maybe...

I'd go for a bike to see if you like road biking. Don't go OTT but a £500 Decathlon is good enough. Then you've the summer to get the bug. If you still like it - you can add mudguards for the winter and next May or so you might want a new best bike.

And then you'll have a feel for what you want on a bike.

Have fun.

JesseD

If you just ride for pleasure its a yes, but if you race its a no as its still expensive and if you crash and total a level or a mech then the bill to fix it will be significant.

I always used to be in the no camp, however after trying it I thought wow. I have now tried etap and it blows Di2 out of the water IMO

That said as a first bike take the advice above!

elliot.baker

Ok, never heard of Etap I'll investigate. As for the first bike advice, thanks, makes me feel like I've just won £2 grand! ha

I'm under the impression even the most mediocre road bike will be ridiculously fast on the road compared to a full susser, that's my main desire. I want to start racking up miles on the road.

ugo.santalucia

Depends what you want to do with the bike... for short rides Di2 is probably great, but if you get into things like long distance riding, then you see little glitches cropping up in Professional races with electric gears, which can potentially spoil your day or worse leave you stranded... if I was to do an unsupported Land's End to John O'Grats or Paris-Brest-Paris, I'd avoid Di2 like the plague

meanredspider

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Depends what you want to do with the bike... for short rides Di2 is probably great, but if you get into things like long distance riding, then you see little glitches cropping up in Professional races with electric gears, which can potentially spoil your day or worse leave you stranded... if I was to do an unsupported Land's End to John O'Grats or Paris-Brest-Paris, I'd avoid Di2 like the plague

I'd go the complete opposite of this. If I was doing a long ride (and I've done plenty) I'd choose Di2 - 3 bikes with it (over 5 years on the oldest bike) and not a single glitch or issue: utterly and totally reliable and I've ridden in pretty much all imaginable conditions.

JesseD wrote:

I have now tried etap and it blows Di2 out of the water IMO

I've not tried E-tap but I can't imagine what it has that "blows Di2 out of the water". The levers seem to mimick mechanical from what I've read but I don't see the point. It doesn't have wires - I also don't see the point except for minor aesthetic reasons.

Anyhow - I wouldn't buy Di2 on my first bike nor would I buy a Decathlon or cheap bike. I'd hunt down a good secondhand bike that you can sell on again at no significant loss either if you don't like road riding or if you really like it and want to get something good and new.

fenix

Pffft 5 years on DI2.

35+ years on normal gears and never broken a cable yet ! ;-)

M.J.E

I bought my first bike last summer and do now have the bug!

I tried out a fair few different bikes, then tried a Focus Cayo Ltd Di2. It was £1600 last summer and there are still some available at further reduced prices of £1279. I'll not mention where in case it's seen as "advertising", but a quick google should be suffice.

It's an awful lot of bike for the money and I've had no issues at all.

phil485

I like the DI2 on my Rose but not enough to change my Felt over from mechamical.
If the bike comes with it then great but modern 105 or ultegra in mechanical form is really good

Anonymous

I do not have any desire for it, yet look forward to when I do eventually have it.
I chose to try the new high end 11 speed mechanical Shimano on my newest road bike, and may try High end mechanical Campag on the next.
Am sure I would love it if I had it now though.

I think it makes sense to go straight to Di2 though if you are new to road bikes and have the money.
If you had a desire for mechanical then you would not have asked the question.

Soon lots of newbies will go straight to Di2.

As to distance, it definitely comes into its own on longer rides IMO.
Why would you want to swing levers across thousands of times rather than push a button?

It seems very reliable, and there are other things that can fail catastrophically.
Just don't buy it Thursday and cycle the length of the country Friday.

ugo.santalucia

Carbonator wrote:

It seems very reliable, and there are other things that can fail catastrophically.
Just don't buy it Thursday and cycle the length of the country Friday.

I was listening to David Millar's commentary of the Tour and he did sound very skeptical about electric gears... it is surprising how many PROs (in fact the majority) still prefer the reliability of cable gears

meanredspider

ugo.santalucia wrote:

it is surprising how many PROs (in fact the majority) still prefer the reliability of cable gears

Based upon what, Ugo? Last I read, most of the peleton preferred electronic. Has there been a definitive survey?

ugo.santalucia

meanredspider wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

it is surprising how many PROs (in fact the majority) still prefer the reliability of cable gears

Based upon what, Ugo? Last I read, most of the peloton preferred electronic. Has there been a definitive survey?

Closeups on the breakaways in the Tour... more often than not the RD loop was there...

cantaloupe

hideously expensive.

give me something with external cables and a threaded bottom bracket because screw you bike industry.

stueys

Well it's been a while since the last thread ....;-)

Yes, DI2 is better. There isn't anything significant that it does better but every part of the shifting experience is just that smidge better. Ignore any comments on reliability, charging, etc etc. Whether it's worth spending the cash or not is upto you; for what it's worth I've got di2 dura on my nice bike (and wouldn't be without it) but run rival 22 mechanical on my winter bike.

For a first bike I wouldn't bother with DI2. I'd get a bike with a great frame and mid-range components, then upgrade it over time if the bug bites. Something like a Spesh Allez is the classic starter bike (mine sits in the turbo...).

marcusjb

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Depends what you want to do with the bike... for short rides Di2 is probably great, but if you get into things like long distance riding, then you see little glitches cropping up in Professional races with electric gears, which can potentially spoil your day or worse leave you stranded... if I was to do an unsupported Land's End to John O'Grats or Paris-Brest-Paris, I'd avoid Di2 like the plague

Plenty of riders on PBP using Di2 in 2015. Many TransCon and TransAm racers as well. I know people using it for tens and tens of thousands of km each year.

As with anything, learn the quirks and foibles, and it appears to be a good choice for randonneurs and ultra racing. The people that seem to have Issues with it in the long distance world are those that turn up to the start of a long ride never having ridden more than a few hundred km with it.

I like the idea of it, and on the couple of occasions I have used it, it is amazing. multiple switches are a great idea for long distance riders and there are cases on long rides where hand strength hasn't held up and people can not change gears after a few days.

Would I use it? Probably.

The only detractor that I have is that you are very locked in to the system, and next year's stuff might not work with this year's stuff. However, these days, the same is becoming truer in mechanical as well (rear mechs get ever fussier and more complex!).

Still, obviously there is only one real choice for Paris Brest Paris, a fixed wheel bike!

ugo.santalucia

marcusjb wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Depends what you want to do with the bike... for short rides Di2 is probably great, but if you get into things like long distance riding, then you see little glitches cropping up in Professional races with electric gears, which can potentially spoil your day or worse leave you stranded... if I was to do an unsupported Land's End to John O'Grats or Paris-Brest-Paris, I'd avoid Di2 like the plague

Plenty of riders on PBP using Di2 in 2015. Many TransCon and TransAm racers as well. I know people using it for tens and tens of thousands of km each year.

As with anything, learn the quirks and foibles, and it appears to be a good choice for randonneurs and ultra racing. The people that seem to have Issues with it in the long distance world are those that turn up to the start of a long ride never having ridden more than a few hundred km with it.

I like the idea of it, and on the couple of occasions I have used it, it is amazing. multiple switches are a great idea for long distance riders and there are cases on long rides where hand strength hasn't held up and people can not change gears after a few days.

Would I use it? Probably.

The only detractor that I have is that you are very locked in to the system, and next year's stuff might not work with this year's stuff. However, these days, the same is becoming truer in mechanical as well (rear mechs get ever fussier and more complex!).

Still, obviously there is only one real choice for Paris Brest Paris, a fixed wheel bike!

I am surprised many use it... months, when not years of preparation and then put your faith in the hands of a battery... I am sure it is reliable (although David Millar thinks otherwise) but it's not road fixable, which would be my bugbear in case of a multi day event...

marcusjb

The battery can be charged on the move from your dynohub. Some people carry spare batteries, put them in drop bags on events that have them.

Yes, it is slightly less bodgeable on the road, but keep on top of the batteries and I have heard of no massive issues in long distance beyond that.

Of course, all us mechanical riders inspect and replace our cables in a timely maintenance schedule right? The dozens of people having broken cables replaced at the mechanic stations on PBP must have been my imagination!

Like everything, look after it, learn how it functions, particularly over longer rides and you're all good.

Be interesting to know what percentage of TransContinental riders have Di2 when they set off this week. I suspect a good proportion.

rolf_f

ugo.santalucia wrote:

I am surprised many use it... months, when not years of preparation and then put your faith in the hands of a battery... I am sure it is reliable (although David Millar thinks otherwise) but it's not road fixable, which would be my bugbear in case of a multi day event...

It would be interesting to know how many pro racers who are on electronic shifting also have it on their spare bikes.

cougie

I've never ever snapped a gear or brake cable. And only replace them when I swap frames or buy a new mech. What happened on PBP to cause dozens of broken cables?

Man Of Lard

On the reliability front - Mark Beaumont used Di2 on his AfricaSolo trip - http://road.cc/content/news/144912-mark ... rd-attempt - and had no issues with it as far as I recall (he did bust an XTR SPD pedal in Zambia though)

edit: his battery did go flat in Ethiopia after riding across the Sahara (in Sahara heat) - see pg 157 of his AfricaSolo book.

markhewitt1978

elliot.baker wrote:

Hello all

I'm thinking of getting a road bike (for the first time, from a full sus mtb) and I'm torn between getting the cheapest possible bike that Decathlon sell or saving up and busting out 2k on something decent... If I'm spending that much I was hoping to get Di2, but what do users think? Is it like a life changing revolution in gear changing or is it more of a gimmick/fad?

Another one of those nice to have things. For a first road bike I wouldn't be looking at anything quite so fancy. If you do want to get something really good then this fits the bill https://www.canyon.com/en-gb/road/ultim ... l-7-0.html the most you'd ever look at wanting to do with that is upgrading the wheels.

ugo.santalucia

marcusjb wrote:

The battery can be charged on the move from your dynohub. Some people carry spare batteries, put them in drop bags on events that have them.

Yes, it is slightly less bodgeable on the road, but keep on top of the batteries and I have heard of no massive issues in long distance beyond that.

Of course, all us mechanical riders inspect and replace our cables in a timely maintenance schedule right? The dozens of people having broken cables replaced at the mechanic stations on PBP must have been my imagination!

Like everything, look after it, learn how it functions, particularly over longer rides and you're all good.

Be interesting to know what percentage of TransContinental riders have Di2 when they set off this week. I suspect a good proportion.

I'm not worreid about the battery going flat... I do believe in Ampere hour and apparently they last thousands of miles... however, Lithium ion batteries suffer excessive heat (leave it in the sun at 35 degrees... the all black assembly gets up to 50 or more... what happens to the battery? Cables can get wet and short, no matter how well protected they are, they won't go under water... in other words shoot happens...
Yes, cables snap (although very rare), but you can replace a cable on the road in minutes and I assume you carry a spare gear and one brake cable when you do a multi day event. A derailleur out of tune is a 2 minutes job with the adjusting thingy.
We have been known for fixing a broken rear derailleur on the road by borrowing a drill and using a nylon cable to stitch it back together, but if you are not an electric engineer, what can you do to fix an electric drivetrain that is dead?

singleton

My personal view is that it's not worth it for me.
My winter vbike has 10 speed 105
My good bike had ultegra 10 speed di2 but I recently replaced the bike and went with mechanical ultegra for the replacement. di2 is nice, and maybe I'm just a bit old school, but I don't see the need or the point of it.

daniel_b

I have it, though not intentionally - I will reply on here in a few weeks.
Not able to ride it yet, as need some new brake rotors, and also a new correct length seatpost to allow me to ride it.

meanredspider

Ugo - I've literally submerged my battery on my oldest Di2 - not an issue - and it's external unlike most these days. I've lost count of how many times the system has been drowned. It's the same technology that's used in many automotive applications for many years which is incredibly reliable. There seems to be a belief that Di2 will be unreliable but I've done nothing to mine other than charge the battery once every few months. I'll spec Di2 onto my next MTB as I have my adventure bike - that's how confident I am about the tech.

ugo.santalucia

meanredspider wrote:

Ugo - I've literally submerged my battery on my oldest Di2 - not an issue - and it's external unlike most these days. I've lost count of how many times the system has been drowned. It's the same technology that's used in many automotive applications for many years which is incredibly reliable. There seems to be a belief that Di2 will be unreliable but I've done nothing to mine other than charge the battery once every few months. I'll spec Di2 onto my next MTB as I have my adventure bike - that's how confident I am about the tech.

That's great... but I think we are on a different rant here... nothing is 100% reliable and I assume anything can fail. I know how to deal with the most common mechanical failures, I wouldn't know how to deal with the most common electronic ones.
Di2 failures are not that uncommon, occasionally they pop up in this very workshop section, so it does happen... it hasn't happened to you, great... I never had a tubeless puncture that didn't seal in 20,000 miles, but I still carry a spare tube, as it might happen

meanredspider

But reliability is a function of many things. Most of the issues listed on here are related to modifications or first installs - I know because I look out for them to help people. Very few are related to in-service reliability.

I don't even touch mine (some might even say I'm abusive to it so little do I touch it. If I treated a mechanical system like that, I'd have loads of problems. The point is, you don't need to know how to fix it. And it is unlikely to leave you stranded - it might leave you stuck in a gear but even if the battery starts to go flat, it gives you a limp home mode.

marcusjb

cougie wrote:

What happened on PBP to cause dozens of broken cables?

6000 people riding 1230km is a lot of km. You see everything and anything being replaced at the mechanic's stations. If you've flown half way around the world to take part in something that only happens every 4 years, then spending even fairly large amounts of Euros is going to be worth while. But, you do see a lot of cable replacement going on!

I replace cables around every 15000 km and have never snapped one. Costs pennies and takes minutes.

Anyway, mechanical is good, electronic is good, mechanical has foibles, electronic has foibles.

sloppyschleckonds

Electronic shifting & alloy wheels with carbon fairings have to be two products the marketing people can feel extremely proud about. Total vanity purchases and won't make you a better/ faster cycler

darkhairedlord

Scrape up as much money as you can and buy the best bike you can. There is no point in buying a cheap bike to see if you like it. If the bike is poor you won't like cycling and you will have wasted your money. If you enjoy riding you will then want to get a better bike and will have wasted your money.