TdF 2016 Stage 17 *Contains spoilers*

ddraver

I can't help but feel a bit bad, this sounded like a good tour until I started watching :oops:

Poels does a quick bit of wotk for Bauke...

slap_my_bass_up

Quintana showing that there's no substitute for actual racing. Do all the mountain training you like, but you need race pace in your legs.

bobmcstuff

Above The Cows wrote:

Not a great day for Mollema.

Yeah disappointing. He's lost quite a bit.

dish_dash

ddraver wrote:

I can't help but feel a bit bad, this sounded like a good tour until I started watching :oops:.

What were you listening to? Even the podcast has been a tad off colour...

thomthom

I can 't defend watching any more of this race. Not because of Froome's dominance (he's been the only one trying something) it's just been an awful, awful race in general. Not even a fierce battle between two riders for secondary places. The mentality from the beginning of the stage that the breakaway should just go ahead and take it with 10 minutes says everything about it. Ridiculous.

Richj

bobmcstuff wrote:

Above The Cows wrote:

Not a great day for Mollema.

Yeah disappointing. He's lost quite a bit.

no big time gaps really

blazing_saddles

Cor, that was more death by a thousand cuts, than exciting, but the podium looking like it may not have the Colombian climber on it, come Sunday.
More your British Empire look to it.

dinyull

Froome, Porte
A. Yates +7
Bardet +10
Aru, Meintjes +17
Nairo +27
Mollema +39
valverde +2’01

Richj

ThomThom wrote:

I can 't defend watching any more of this race. Not because of Froome's dominance (he's been the only one trying something) it's just been an awful, awful race in general. Not even a fierce battle between two riders for secondary places. The mentality from the beginning of the stage that the breakaway should just go ahead and take it with 10 minutes says everything about it. Ridiculous.

Martin had a go and good to see Yates attack, but too little too late. Would be good to see the top 10 attack each other just a little more, rather than just sitting in waiting for each other to go pop

mrb123

ThomThom wrote:

I can 't defend watching any more of this race. Not because of Froome's dominance (he's been the only one trying something) it's just been an awful, awful race in general. Not even a fierce battle between two riders for secondary places. The mentality from the beginning of the stage that the breakaway should just go ahead and take it with 10 minutes says everything about it. Ridiculous.

So you haven't enjoyed it then?

blazing_saddles

MrB123 wrote:

ThomThom wrote:

I can 't defend watching any more of this race. Not because of Froome's dominance (he's been the only one trying something) it's just been an awful, awful race in general. Not even a fierce battle between two riders for secondary places. The mentality from the beginning of the stage that the breakaway should just go ahead and take it with 10 minutes says everything about it. Ridiculous.

So you haven't enjoyed it then?

Enjoying the result and not enjoying the racing aren't mutually inclusive.
It's just too darn hard and Sky are too darn strong.
(or the opposition are too darn ordinary)

TJVG only now rolling in.

49'-47" is the hors delay mark.

above_the_cows

Things could get a shake up tomorrow. If Quintana really is cooked then I expect him to loose some time tomorrow on the TT.

hypster

Hats off to Nibali and Astana for trying to take it to Sky but it basically just handed it to them on a plate. I don't think trying to outpush the strongest team in the race is the right tactic but then again what else could they do? Aru didn't have anything to give at the end and the same with the Valverde/Quintana combo. Valverde just basically buried himself in a gamble and may have been better off just trying to pace Quintana to the finish to limit losses which were bound to come

Richie Porte will hopefully move up and may do a bit better in the TT tomorrow than he did in the previous one. Adam Yates showed he is more than capable of finishing on the podium and could even take second spot but will probably lose more time to Mollema in the TT tomorrow so will need to get that back plus more on the mountaintop finish on Friday.

mfin

The standout at the finish was of course Yates, even pulling back the gap on Froome and Porte. Good to see after Yates always spending so much time at the back of the group on the climbs, I do think he could work on his positioning in that regard.

Astana did give it a crack today by pushing the pace a little, but they are quite simply matched by Sky who don't have to ride much differently to how they normally do and obviously happy to let another team take up the front as long as it is at Sky pace.

Fantastic countryside to look at too, that goes without saying.

dougzz

It's OK to say Sky are strong, but it's more about their own weakness. There's not much evidence these people are putting Poels into trouble never mind Froome.

above_the_cows

dougzz wrote:

It's OK to say Sky are strong, but it's more about their own weakness. There's not much evidence these people are putting Poels into trouble never mind Froome.

Sky are only strong relative to other teams. Sky came with a team with one objective. What were the objectives of other teams? That said if you're happy to settle for a podium then it is enough to ride the Sky train and hope to defend your place or put some time into your rivals, a la Porte.

mrb123

Real shame about the problems Porte encountered early in the race. He looks like the one person who could have given Froome a good challenge.

above_the_cows

MrB123 wrote:

Real shame about the problems Porte encountered early in the race. He looks like the one person who could have given Froome a good challenge.

That's partly the fault of BMC. They didn't protect him properly. No one gave him their wheel for example. They've never been a cohesive bunch really. But then I guess based on previous Porte form in GCs they weren't going to give him protected leader status. Hopefully now they'll jetison Van Lady Garden and ride all out for Porte (how useful that will be who knows) even though they've lost members like Dennis to the Olympics.

ugo.santalucia

Above The Cows wrote:

dougzz wrote:

It's OK to say Sky are strong, but it's more about their own weakness. There's not much evidence these people are putting Poels into trouble never mind Froome.

Sky are only strong relative to other teams. Sky came with a team with one objective. What were the objectives of other teams? That said if you're happy to settle for a podium then it is enough to ride the Sky train and hope to defend your place or put some time into your rivals, a la Porte.

However, their control on the race is greater than the Postmen used to have in the early noughties... at least Armstrong was going solo 4-5 Km to the finish, when not earlier, while here we have domestiques basically escorting Froome to the line

above_the_cows

There's a minute between Quintana and Porte now with Bardet in between.

above_the_cows

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Above The Cows wrote:

dougzz wrote:

It's OK to say Sky are strong, but it's more about their own weakness. There's not much evidence these people are putting Poels into trouble never mind Froome.

Sky are only strong relative to other teams. Sky came with a team with one objective. What were the objectives of other teams? That said if you're happy to settle for a podium then it is enough to ride the Sky train and hope to defend your place or put some time into your rivals, a la Porte.

However, their control on the race is greater than the Postmen used to have in the early noughties... at least Armstrong was going solo 4-5 Km to the finish, when not earlier, while here we have domestiques basically escorting Froome to the line

Those were different times. Froome a) doesn't need to go on solo willy waving mission to the line - why waste that energy when you don't need to and b) maybe can't. Lance had help beyond his train let's not forget. Those days of racing are basically over. You might see it once in a Tour but you won't see it stage after stage after stage. It's the price of a clean sport. The last time we saw it was in 2014 when Nibali had no competition and that was also actually very, very boring.

ugo.santalucia

Above The Cows wrote:

The last time we saw it was in 2014 when Nibali had no competition and that was also actually very, very boring.

I find any attack of GC men exciting, even if it comes from yellow... Nibali rode that Tour in an exciting way. I find the procession of 20 that only breaks 800 metres and 2 minutes to the finish very boring indeed

jscl

Movistar and Astana made the same mistakes.

They smashed it on the front and burnt men, but their leaders just couldn't deliver. They'd have done far better trying to preserve manpower.

I really don't get why those things happened today. There is only one winner of this Tour.

joe2008

Above The Cows wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Above The Cows wrote:

dougzz wrote:

It's OK to say Sky are strong, but it's more about their own weakness. There's not much evidence these people are putting Poels into trouble never mind Froome.

Sky are only strong relative to other teams. Sky came with a team with one objective. What were the objectives of other teams? That said if you're happy to settle for a podium then it is enough to ride the Sky train and hope to defend your place or put some time into your rivals, a la Porte.

However, their control on the race is greater than the Postmen used to have in the early noughties... at least Armstrong was going solo 4-5 Km to the finish, when not earlier, while here we have domestiques basically escorting Froome to the line

Those were different times. Froome a) doesn't need to go on solo willy waving mission to the line - why waste that energy when you don't need to and b) maybe can't. Lance had help beyond his train let's not forget. Those days of racing are basically over. You might see it once in a Tour but you won't see it stage after stage after stage. It's the price of a clean sport. The last time we saw it was in 2014 when Nibali had no competition and that was also actually very, very boring.

Clean sport is fiction... look who won today's stage.

squired

Taking an optimistic view, lets imagine Adam Yates holds on for a podium. If so, how much more can he develop in the next few years, or is this basically as good as he is likely to ever get results wise? Isn't he supposed to be the "less talented" one, at least according to British cycling some years ago?

hypster

joe2008 wrote:

Above The Cows wrote:

Clean sport is fiction... look who won today's stage.

I'm sure that's the thought on many people's minds, especially the way he attacked on the last climb.

Ned Boulting: Zakarin tested positive for steroids in 2009 and was banned for two years.
The World: Oh really, now there's a surprise!

I would say if he (or any rider for that matter) tests positive for drugs a second time it should be an automatic lifetime ban. You've got to make the punishment severe enough that athletes wouldn't risk taking the chance.

jscl

squired wrote:

Taking an optimistic view, lets imagine Adam Yates holds on for a podium. If so, how much more can he develop in the next few years, or is this basically as good as he is likely to ever get results wise? Isn't he supposed to be the "less talented" one, at least according to British cycling some years ago?

He's several years away from the 'potential' peak of his form.

I think there's exciting years ahead for both of them and it would not surprise me if we saw one take a tour in the future too.


On the subject of Zakarin... I like the guy. But that positive in 2009 and the current issues surrounding Russian athletes might not bode well for him. But I hope to be proven wrong. On another note, how wide are his handlebars?!

joe2008

hypster wrote:

joe2008 wrote:

Above The Cows wrote:

Clean sport is fiction... look who won today's stage.

I'm sure that's the thought on many people's minds, especially the way he attacked on the last climb.

Ned Boulting: Zakarin tested positive for steroids in 2009 and was banned for two years.
The World: Oh really, now there's a surprise!

... and he's Russian, on a Russian team.

adr82

Above The Cows wrote:

MrB123 wrote:

Real shame about the problems Porte encountered early in the race. He looks like the one person who could have given Froome a good challenge.

That's partly the fault of BMC. They didn't protect him properly. No one gave him their wheel for example. They've never been a cohesive bunch really. But then I guess based on previous Porte form in GCs they weren't going to give him protected leader status. Hopefully now they'll jetison Van Lady Garden and ride all out for Porte (how useful that will be who knows) even though they've lost members like Dennis to the Olympics.

This is one of the really obvious things Sky do better than the other teams. No messing around with other objectives and leaders, it's all about GC and all about Froome. They don't have to accommodate someone like TJVG who has clearly been brainwashed by some mischievous scamp into thinking he's a GC contender. They don't need to make space for someone like Sagan or Cav (2012 excepted, but that was almost too easy for them anyway). They don't care about stage hunting. They are free to bring a good mix of domestiques for flats+mountains. Yes, the money helps, but a lot of it is just common sense management stuff and it makes a difference.

Would have really liked to see Porte get a good run at the GC. When you see TJ falling apart yet again it's incredible people take him more seriously.

Omar Little

Here is the reason why Sagan had his top off