run into from behind/crash and carbon frame question

slowbike

Fenix wrote:

that would help you get back to the position you were in before the crash.

What? Being chased down the road by a driver looking in his rear view mirror? Not sure I'd want to be in that position!

andcp

Slowbike wrote:

depemds on what level of confidence you want ... in an aircraft for example - it matters quite a lot ...
on my carbon mast - so long as you can't hear splintering when you bend it it's probably ok.

Ah yes, being from an Aerospace background, and being 'risk averse' I do tend to focus on what's in front of me.

bing gordon

Yeah I've tonnes of pictures. There's a huge purple bruise to my backside come hip and a tennis ball swelling on my hip. The neck is sore all down the front to my upper chest as my Prevail helmet split clean open at the back and saved me from far worse injuries.
I've some slight bruising here there and everywhere and tarmac burns in all the usual places but the hip and neck are the worse.
And your right , the last place I want to be is seeing his left light and wheel ready to eat my rear wheel like a Pacman. Although I'm not badly injured I'm still thinking too much over it, kinda sh!ts me up the "What if" everytime I think back, it's knocked me for six this one. It's going to be very hard to ride with any confidence as I couldn't have done anything about it.

pilot_pete

Glad to hear you are not too badly hurt (relatively speaking of course).

What I would do is put together a bit of research and give the document to his insurer, through your solicitor if necessary.

That document should give them 'industry' refererences to carbon fibre structural testing protocols etc and associated costs of NDTing. Show them that it is prohibitively expensive, but give them the option to pay for it.

Also include quotes for replacement parts, such as a new frame (of similar or better spec). Point out that your model is no longer available (if it isn't) and the second hand market is minute compared to cars so sourcing a second hand frame of exact pre-crash condition (including provenance) is again virtually impossible.

This is where you show them that the option of paying for a new frame (include three quotes at close to full retail price) and the various bits (like saddle and brake shifter/ lever) plus your claim for personal injury (again, research what each is worth in terms of insurance claims - for example my son spent 24hrs in hospital after being hit by a car due to suspected head injuries - he blacked out momentarily after the impact- and this was listed as a standard payout of £1000), comes out to be 'X' thousands of pounds.

With it all listed and you stating that you are willing to transfer of all the rest of your undamaged parts etc and take the personal injury claim as a final settlement (I.e. No come back in the future) then they will likely just settle as they like loose ends being tidied up in this way. Make sure this figure is sufficient to get you back to where you were pre crash.

In my son's example, they initially offered him £500 for his car. Once we had done all the research and showed them the car was worth closer to £1500 and the hospital stay £1000, they settled on £2500. We pointed out that if he had gone through his own insurance company they would also have had to pay his £500 excess and if they contested they would get a solicitors bill as well - it all did the trick. The key is showing them how much it could cost and then give them the nice neat and tidy 'out' with a settlement that benefits you and them...

Good luck

PP

fenix

If youve gone to any competent solicitor with bike crash experience you shouldnt have much trouble really. THey're used to carbon fibre etc.

svetty

Have had a similar incident where car hit me and suffered bruising and soft tissue injuries that took 18 months to become pain-free. I was out on my bike as soon as I could sit on it and doing 60 mile rides within days. I think the fact that you are posting so much on here as you are suggests that you are ruminating overmuch on what might have happened - but didn't.
In the nicest way, and with personal experience I say to you: get on a bike as soon as you possibly can and fill your lungs with fresh air. Enjoy the freedom and start to heal those mental scars.

I'd also suggest getting a new rear wheel and getting the bike back into commission if possible - the chances of a major failure from what you have posted here sounds very small indeed.

bing gordon

Thanks all once again for the help and advice. My injuries hopefully are not long lasting my hip is the one that concerns me the most. Once the swelling and bruising goes down I'll know more.

My bike is a tricky one, bike shop says frames dead without even looking at it. I can't check the shifters and rear mech because I don't have a back wheel to check them on so hopefully it's only the back wheel that's knackered. As it stands the guy admitted he just didn't see me but as we all know this can change dramatically once he realises his insurance premiums will go up. Then , he might start thinking up some Jackanory story were somehow I'm at fault.
He doesn't know I have footage so if he's any sense he will admit to it and it shouldn't be a long drawn out affair. My biggest concern is, will I ever ride on the roads again ?. I'm thinking , "Yeah not a prob," but then I think back and that puts the stoppers on it

bing gordon

I rang round about 10 stores over the weekend asking do they do written crash report examinations on bikes for insurance and all bar one said no, and the one that said yes is 40 miles away. They said leave it with us for a few days which would mean a 80 miles twice round trip which I am not over impressed with.
All the rest either said no, too busy , if you didn't buy it from us then no. As for get back on your bike ?, I honestly don't have the money to buy a bike to get back on, times are pretty tight at the moment and I have a feeling this is going to be a long long haul.
I appointed a Solicitor (no names but large renowned firm) and the agent took all the details and sent me the PDF to sign which I did. He said he will pass it on to a Solicitor within the firm and I should receive another form with all the details and accident report from the appointed Solicitor.
I clearly stated in the first report I attended hospital and needed a CT scan , I signed and returned this. Then when the 2nd form came direct from the Solicitor , again with the case details it said "Did you attend hospital for treatment or seek medical advise , the Solicitor or whoever had ticked no so I couldn't sign the form and had to email them as to why.

And, there was a mistake virtually on every page from misspellings , wrong address's, misspelt names to wrong telephone numbers all of which were on the original document I read and signed, a 3 yr old pre school child could do better. When you can't copy the one and only main witness's mobile number from form to form and be 3 digits out I can only say, "Houston, we have a problem".

rolf_f

I would say if the components are fine and it is just the frame that is the worry then claim for a new frame and the cost of the rebuilding. The bike remains a second hand bike and it isn't any more valuable than it was before the crash so there really ought not to be a problem (and don't forget to point out that you are saving them money by not claiming for bike rental whilst all this is being sorted out).
I've just been through a claim with Slater Gordon. Reasonably inconsequential financial losses but hip damage which is possibly permanent - doesn't hurt; just feels a little awkward at times. Payout is a decent 4 figure sum but really I'd prefer a perfect hip! And it took almost four years to resolve (narrowly avoiding a court case) so don't expect it will all be sorted soon.

As for the frame - I'd ride it but I'm old enough to predate H&S paranoia! I think if I was going to worry about a rear end shunt where the wheel clearly took the brunt of the impact then I'd worry a lot more about the damage done by potholes that I've hit at high speed and which have caused alarming jolts through the frame.

slowbike

bing gordon wrote:

I appointed a Solicitor ..... And, there was a mistake virtually on every page from misspellings , wrong address's, misspelt names to wrong telephone numbers all of which were on the original document I read and signed, a 3 yr old pre school child could do better. When you can't copy the one and only main witness's mobile number from form to form and be 3 digits out I can only say, "Houston, we have a problem".

Hmm - I'd be either phoning the solicitors office and talking to a solcitor higher up the chain or (my preference) writing to them and let them know that due to their inability to fill the simple forms in correctly (or incorrectly!) you're dismissing them on this case - then go somewhere else - although it may be advisable to find another solicitor first!

bing gordon

I've let the Solicitor know about the mistakes and hopefully that will be rectified asap. I have managed to find a bike shop to examine and draft up a damage report so again , that should be on it's way to the Solicitors by the end of the week.

The rear wheel must have took a serious hit as it's pringle shaped and a dint come bend in it like you would bend a copper pipe over your knee. The rear mech took a wallop and heavily scratched and the right side shifter is badly marked up , saddles torn on the corner but I cant see much else, everything on the ride side plus it's a s works carbon crank arm.
It's out my hands for now but my hip is a worry , it's still awful sore like the day I did it and a fair size lump on it. The buising and the swelling in other places is slowly going down but this lump on my hip is lingering and not much difference from the day I did it bar the colour is going back to normal

bing gordon

Well it's been 10 weeks on and I have been made an offer to replace my bike and all my damaged goods. Firstly, my bike has been written off, dura ace 7800 right shifter buckled and cracked, rear mech the same'ish. Back wheel Mavic Ksyrium Elite 2013 pringled and front wheel badly out of true. S works carbon chainset written off as I landed on the right side of the bike. Even the carbon bars couldn't been given a green light by the bike store who did the report.

My helmet was knackered a S Works Prevail, Garmin 810 went down the road and digitizer broke so garmin replaced for £82.50, my IPhone mobo was damaged and jawbreaker glasses snapped. All these items were examined by shops and reports made at my expense.

The bike shop report drew up a list of all the cost of the replacement parts individually and also potential replacement bikes , mine was a Specialized Roubaix Pro 2009. His report said on average a £1200 bike would be the cost to replace the bike as a whole.bear in mind the wheels were upgrades. Now I fully understand depreciation value of the bike but this bike was very well looked after and I mean well. Parts replaced like for like and new at that.

I have been offered £1200 for everything, it cost me £50 for the reports alone . I am not happy not one bit , but I have not even been asked if this is OK .I got an email sailing "Check is in the post" So by the time I replace the helmet bike and clothes I will have to put money to it. Pished off is an understatement.I personally think they are at least £300 off the mark, just to allow me to get a new bike and replacement the majority of my equipment including damaged jersey and bib shorts at £100.

Can I appeal against the amount ? it seems their in a hurry to mail out. Oh and this is not anything to do with my injuries which will be dealt with at a later date.

fenix

Just because you've been offered it doesn't mean you have to accept it.

Has this gone through your solicitor ? The other party will try and pay you off cheaply. That's their job.

bing gordon

Yes , this is the message I got from my Solicitor today;-

"I have today received a cheque in the amount of £1200 for your bicycle damage, this will be sent in today's post to you."

I'm not 100% sure I might have got my wires crossed I have asked but no reply yet) will this be just the bike amount or for for the cost to replace everything ?

fenix

Dude - speak to your solicitor. Dont complain to us that its not enough. He's not reading it here. Explain it to him.

gabriel959

Yep, call him, sometimes email is not enough.

bing gordon

Will do , thanks

wolfsbane2k

bing gordon wrote:

Will do , thanks

It's very likely that that's an initial outlay payment to minimise expenses such as hiring a bike while yours is off the road, however it's essential that you check this with your solicitor before you cash it to ensure its not seen as a final payment for your bike. (Or maybe it is just your bike, not helmets, accessories etc!) Down forget that if you used to commute by bike and are now driving, you should be claiming for the mileage on your car as well...

Quite possible that the clerk's supporting your solicitor is also useless, so do bear that in mind.

In my accident I got an initial payment quickly after chasing hard that just covered the cost of repairing the bike and the light, and the rest is expenses which are fought for.

StillGoing

First offers are always derisory and usually rejected. Unless there is an agreement to replace items as new for old, you will only get current value as an offer. You can offset this by the claim for your injuries that should hopefully make up the difference. Certainly, when my first R1 got written off in an RTC, the claim for damages for the lost bike, leathers, helmet etc didn't amount to enough to afford the replacements as new. But, the claim for injuries made up the shortfall.

bendertherobot

A solicitor cannot settle a case without a) advising you about the settlement and b) getting your agreement.

You need to ring up and ascertain what this cheque is for.

bing gordon

Just found out , the £1200 payment I received today is to replace the bike which is about right and the damaged gear is still been looked at by the 3rd party.

webboo

I got 5 grand plus for a written off 3 year old 2 grand bike and £ 200's worth of damaged old clothing. Plus damages for personal injuries, I had day off work with grazes and minor bruising.
I still have the bike on my turbo, the bottom bracket shell wobbles and still wear the clothing.
You need to speak to your solicitor, mine rejected the first offer of 3 grand saying they hadn't included the cost of my bike.

kingrollo

Horse and bolted here.....

But I recently insured myself (not my bike) with pedalsure - I get access to a solicitor and £35k if I get a serious injury. It costs me £5 a month.

webboo

I just used a no win no fee solicitor that was advertised in cycling weekly.

wolfsbane2k

Webboo wrote:

I just used a no win no fee solicitor that was advertised in cycling weekly.

Unfort I've found that a no win no fee solicitor still ends up taking 25% of whatever your injury fee is, plus whatever their fees are from the insurance claim, which to me is scandalous.

bendertherobot

Wolfsbane2k wrote:

Webboo wrote:

I just used a no win no fee solicitor that was advertised in cycling weekly.

Unfort I've found that a no win no fee solicitor still ends up taking 25% of whatever your injury fee is, plus whatever their fees are from the insurance claim, which to me is scandalous.

Blame the government. Once upon a time they decided that such setups should be avoided (see Claims Direct etc). Then we had true no win no fee where you got all your damages and the defendant picked up the "uplift" on costs. Now we've gone back to the old system which wholly undermines the principle of tort law that you get put into the same position you would have been but for the accident.

First.Aspect

Wolfsbane2k wrote:

Webboo wrote:

I just used a no win no fee solicitor that was advertised in cycling weekly.

Unfort I've found that a no win no fee solicitor still ends up taking 25% of whatever your injury fee is, plus whatever their fees are from the insurance claim, which to me is scandalous.

This is simply incorrect.

Costs and damages are entirely separate matters. Their fees do not get taken from the damages at all. In general, the fees are not charged to the client and are recovered at predetermined rates from the insurer.

There is nothing stopping one from entering into an agreement with a personal injury solicitor on an hourly basis, and recovering costs (i.e. normally less than you actually pay your solicitor) in the normal way, but if that's the case you should be made aware of that at the outset.

I suspect that what has happened here is that the property damage part of the claim has been settled, but the other heads of claim have not been. In my case I got the replacement value of my bike and clothes after about 3 months, and the personal injury part was settled 2/12 years later.

But the OP does have to confirm this and know what the cheque is actually for. i.e. Are any parts of the claim disputed (e.g. for clothes, or is a only a 2nd hand value of any repairs being offered?)

If anything like this has happened without clear prior approval by the client, then it is important to raise it immediately. Any solicitor worth a damn will have something in writing.

But beware, this industry only manages to operate within the pre agreed costs (i.e. at rates that would be recoverable in court) because they hand things on to paralegals and very junior solicitors. Other than very serious cases, its high throughput-low imagination law, in general. So as a client it can pay to be vigilant!

bendertherobot

bing gordon wrote:

Just found out , the £1200 payment I received today is to replace the bike which is about right and the damaged gear is still been looked at by the 3rd party.

Good to hear. They still technically need to agree each part of the settlement with you though. But it sounds as if you may have had a conversation/confirmation that it was worth that? Or do they have an expert/letter that says that?

wolfsbane2k

First Aspect wrote:

Wolfsbane2k wrote:

Webboo wrote:

I just used a no win no fee solicitor that was advertised in cycling weekly.

Unfort I've found that a no win no fee solicitor still ends up taking 25% of whatever your injury fee is, plus whatever their fees are from the insurance claim, which to me is scandalous.

This is simply incorrect.

Costs and damages are entirely separate matters. Their fees do not get taken from the damages at all. In general, the fees are not charged to the client and are recovered at predetermined rates from the insurer.

There is nothing stopping one from entering into an agreement with a personal injury solicitor on an hourly basis, and recovering costs (i.e. normally less than you actually pay your solicitor) in the normal way, but if that's the case you should be made aware of that at the outset.

Sorry, I might of misused the words "injury fee". rather than "injury claim".
All 4 I approached, including those recommended by BC/CTC (S&G, LD) both wanted a 25% cut of whatever I "won" - and their fees. I declined this, and they refused to deal with me.

As BTR put:

BenderTheRobot wrote:

Blame the government. Once upon a time they decided that such setups should be avoided (see Claims Direct etc). Then we had true no win no fee where you got all your damages and the defendant picked up the "uplift" on costs. Now we've gone back to the old system which wholly undermines the principle of tort law that you get put into the same position you would have been but for the accident.

Given my initial assessment showed my claim being worth < £300, I didn't want to lose that 25% as I needed the delta to replace the bike from it's "second hand", 8 year old price of next to nothing.

apreading

Wolfsbane2k wrote:

Sorry, I might of misused the words "injury fee". rather than "injury claim".
All 4 I approached, including those recommended by BC/CTC (S&G, LD) both wanted a 25% cut of whatever I "won" - and their fees. I declined this, and they refused to deal with me.

Given my initial assessment showed my claim being worth < £300, I didn't want to lose that 25% as I needed the delta to replace the bike from it's "second hand", 8 year old price of next to nothing.

I think therein lies the difference - the claim was so minor that it probably would have been seen as disproportionate to add the normal fixed legal costs as a separate item, the way they normally do. So they asked for < £75 to provide you with legal representation - that sounds like a bargain to me!