Tubular tyre is better or clincher?

cycleclinic

I wonder what happened to the OP. He asked a question and found he started a war. there has been one causuality along the way. Not the result he was hoping for I think.

bernithebiker

Pinno wrote:

bernithebiker wrote:

I dedicate this video to Maglia Rosa;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvPm9-uJkWQ

16k kilometers per year, 1 puncture on average . Soooo tempted to swap to tubs or consider going tubeless when my current sets of wheel kick the bucket. Can someone with a bit of experience ( ) please explain 'Replacement tub' : is this some sort of temporary road side fix and then when you get home replace the replacement?

Pity about MR. If you wanted an argument...

This depends a bit on how good / fresh the glue on the wheel is when you pull the punctured tub off, and the quality of your glue job on your replacement tub.

The glue is contact, so forms a bond when pressure is applied. Just mounting the spare, pumping up hard and riding will create a bond.

How good a bond can be determined when you get home by deflating the spare and inspecting the wheel; if you can lift the tyre anywhere at all, then best to re-do the job with fresh glue. But I've had replacements go on so well, that I've left them in place and ridden them till worn out with no issues.

I've been riding tubs for 15 years now, exclusively, all year round and have never had any problems, even though my early glue jobs were somewhat...amateur!

pinno

bernithebiker wrote:

Pinno wrote:

bernithebiker wrote:

I dedicate this video to Maglia Rosa;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvPm9-uJkWQ

16k kilometers per year, 1 puncture on average . Soooo tempted to swap to tubs or consider going tubeless when my current sets of wheel kick the bucket. Can someone with a bit of experience ( ) please explain 'Replacement tub' : is this some sort of temporary road side fix and then when you get home replace the replacement?

Pity about MR. If you wanted an argument...

This depends a bit on how good / fresh the glue on the wheel is when you pull the punctured tub off, and the quality of your glue job on your replacement tub.

The glue is contact, so forms a bond when pressure is applied. Just mounting the spare, pumping up hard and riding will create a bond.

How good a bond can be determined when you get home by deflating the spare and inspecting the wheel; if you can lift the tyre anywhere at all, then best to re-do the job with fresh glue. But I've had replacements go on so well, that I've left them in place and ridden them till worn out with no issues.

I've been riding tubs for 15 years now, exclusively, all year round and have never had any problems, even though my early glue jobs were somewhat...amateur!

I see. How often do you puncture? What's the puncture per miles ratio (sounds a bit arbitrary)?

Personally, i've worked out that I get roughly 1 puncture per 1500 miles. However, since swapping to Vittoria Pave's on both the summer bike and the winter bike, I have had none. Touch wood. That may be sheer luck.

Who has ridden Clinchers with latex inner tubes and also tubs - can you then make the comparison?

bernithebiker

Purely tubs for me, and it's 10 000 miles to 1 puncture, 2 at worst.

And I think I could avoid those punctures completely if I didn't wait too long to change my tyres - when they get very worn, that's when they tend to puncture.

Having said that I do tend to ride on good quality roads.

sloppyschleckonds

Pinno wrote:

Who has ridden Clinchers with latex inner tubes and also tubs - can you then make the comparison?

Yes thanks

pinno

bernithebiker wrote:

Purely tubs for me, and it's 10 000 miles to 1 puncture, 2 at worst.

And I think I could avoid those punctures completely if I didn't wait too long to change my tyres - when they get very worn, that's when they tend to puncture.

Having said that I do tend to ride on good quality roads.

In France ?

Hmm... Even on these 3rd world roads, if I thought I was only going to puncture every 3000 miles, i'd be happier.
It's potholes, pinch punctures, cattle grids, aftermath of hedge cutting, stones and left over debris from all the agricultural activity - not all of those activities rural. Like glass (Re.: Keef66). Plus, when it rains... it rains leaving pebbles strewn everywhere.

I haven't yet got my head around the idea of the middle ground, i'e Tubeless.

bernithebiker

Tubs don't pinch puncture.

sungod

Pinno wrote:

Imposter wrote:

You've not read the thread then?

Nope, I just got the link to the flounce. Which wasn't as good as expected, so I thought, 'While i'm here...".

i knew you'd be tempted

pinno wrote:

please explain 'Replacement tub'

you carry a pre-glued folded-up tub, i use a tufo one, folds almost as small as an inner tube...



...tub on the left, conti race light tube on the right

if you get a flat that sealant won't fix (or you don't want to use sealant), remove the flat tub, fit the spare, inflate, and carry on riding - best to avoid heroic braking/hard cornering as the bond will not be as strong as normal

the glue on the spare and the rim will bond under pressure, but it'll be nothing like a normally glued tub

once home, remove spare, glue on a new/repaired tub properly

pinno

Some good info guys and thanks.

milemuncher1

Maglia Rosa wrote:

Having ridden through glass and other sharp objects that have punctured both tyres I can say I wouldn't want to have to pop both tubs. I could pop a clincher and have it changed in under 5 minutes. If you pop a tubular and you can't fix it with sealant - a big cut or hole will not seal, you have to swap your tyre over. Which needs to be glued on. Removing a glued on tyre is a chore at any time ( and if it isnt you didnt have it glued on enough which is pretty dangerous) i can carry 2 spare innertubes and a pack of patches if I get a 3rd or 4th puncture. On a long ride its not inconceivable for this to happen. I will keep tubs for racing and thats it. I don't even put Tubs on my TT bike outside of competition any more. I would rather just roll along on clinchers and not worry about the speed difference. Its only training. But if people want to always be fastest on Strava I guess they will take the risk for a fleeting moment of kudos.

You may have achieved something truly astonishing right there. A post on an Internet forum which I actually 100 percent agree with :shock:

pinno

Too late milemuncher - he's gaaawn.

darkhairedlord

sungod wrote:

Pinno wrote:

Imposter wrote:

You've not read the thread then?

Nope, I just got the link to the flounce. Which wasn't as good as expected, so I thought, 'While i'm here...".

i knew you'd be tempted

pinno wrote:

please explain 'Replacement tub'

you carry a pre-glued folded-up tub, i use a tufo one, folds almost as small as an inner tube...



...tub on the left, conti race light tube on the right

if you get a flat that sealant won't fix (or you don't want to use sealant), remove the flat tub, fit the spare, inflate, and carry on riding - best to avoid heroic braking/hard cornering as the bond will not be as strong as normal

the glue on the spare and the rim will bond under pressure, but it'll be nothing like a normally glued tub

once home, remove spare, glue on a new/repaired tub properly

how long dos the spare last in your pack?
Does the glue on the tape dry up if its shoved in saddle bag for three or four years waiting for a puncture (like my inner tube repair glue?)

bernithebiker

Well, shouldn't have said the P word. Got one this afternoon, about 3km from home; close enough to not bother putting sealant in - just rode home on the flat. Wheels are fine. Just keep it below 20km/h and keep weight forward.
The rear tub was pretty worn; had planned to change it this weekend so it's no biggy.
Punctured back in April too, again a totally worn rear, I could see some carcass through the rubber.
So that's 2. I have to not get any more this year now!

milemuncher1

bernithebiker wrote:

Well, shouldn't have said the P word. Got one this afternoon, about 3km from home; close enough to not bother putting sealant in - just rode home on the flat. Wheels are fine. Just keep it below 20km/h and keep weight forward.
The rear tub was pretty worn; had planned to change it this weekend so it's no biggy.
Punctured back in April too, again a totally worn rear, I could see some carcass through the rubber.
So that's 2. I have to not get any more this year now!

Being able to ride ( slowly ) on a flat tub is part of the attraction for me.

sungod

darkhairedlord wrote:

how long dos the spare last in your pack?
Does the glue on the tape dry up if its shoved in saddle bag for three or four years waiting for a puncture (like my inner tube repair glue?)

spare tub lives in a ziploc freezer bag to keep water/sweat off it, carried in middle jersey pocket

looking back, i've had it since 2012, reglued it once since then, probably ought to do it again though the fresher glue on the rim should still activate it and bond ok

tempting fate, but haven't needed to use it since 2013 i think, tufo extreme has sealed any punctures, still carry it just in case though

drlodge

I sold my carbon tubular wheels and got some tubeless ones instead. Tubulars are too much hassle to replace and repair and the ride of a good tubeless tyre is on a par with tubular now.

DeVlaeminck

bernithebiker wrote:

Tubs don't pinch puncture.

Not as easily but they can - a mate popped two tubs on a group ride a couple of years ago when he hit a pothole on a group ride. He's not a novice either masters world champion.

pinno

What do you do when you get a puncture running tubeless?

DeVlaeminck

Think you can put a tube in if the sealant doesn't fix it

thegreatdivide

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Think you can put a tube in if the sealant doesn't fix it

So it's a bit of a hassle.

drlodge

The risk of getting an irrepairable puncture running tubeless is so small that I'll take the risk, can call a taxi or get the train if it happens. One puncture so far and that sealed itself.

pinno

drlodge wrote:

The risk of getting an irrepairable puncture running tubeless is so small that I'll take the risk, can call a taxi or get the train if it happens. One puncture so far and that sealed itself.

How long, or should I say how many miles have you done since going tubeless?

cycleclinic

I have done thousands of miles on tubeless tyres this year. done 16000km in total so far and well over half of that is on tubeless tyres. Some miles are on tubs non are on clinchers. Most of my tubular miles are actually on my Geax Saguro MTB tubulars which have been excellent tyres. I do alot of riding on them. The rear tyre has over 2500km on it and now has a small leak but not quick enough to bin it. Sealant has made the leak manageable.

no prizes for guessing which tyres I use and I have not been let down except once where something on a very light weight IRC tubeless tyre slashed the carcass. No race tyre would have survived that though. The other issues have all been with this light weight tubeless tyre. It is a bit like the Schwable pro one really but lower rolling resistance apparantly. 'i have stopped using for general duties as it is a TT tyre really and I do do TT's seriously. Most of my tubeless miles have been on other IRC tubeless tyres which have flawless.

Tubeless seems so reliable with the right tyres I no longer worry about punctures. The sealant will sort them out (had one recently in a race and the tyre sorted it self out allowing me to finish 8th.

My favourite tubs are the MTB tubs I use and those Schwable ultremo's that sungod pointed us too last year on a german site. Bought 6 and the two I have mounted are lovely. Conti competitons are my other favourite.

Next year I plan to do LEL on tubeless I probably wont even pack a spare tyre. Dr lodge is quite correct, tubeless tyres are as good as tubs now but tubs are still lighter and not actually much hassle at all. Also I have a number tubular wheels and I cant just sell them all. Second hand prices are poor.