Nearly 1 million signatures now for a second referendum

surrey_commuter

I disagree with the whole idea of a referendum on EU membership
I disagree with people's decision making process
I disagree for calls to ignore the result.

The time for setting the rules has long since sailed

ugo.santalucia

Pinno wrote:

Sure. Ultimately, we are all going to have to get on with it. Don't you agree that there are so many unknown effects that we are going to be in a state of flux for a long long time? I resent being thrown into that unknown unwillingly.
.

Playing the devil's advocate... both me and you are scared, others see an opportunity. I frankly don't know if the economic instability is a price worth paying to shape your own future, but clearly a large number of brexiters do. They are not all idiots, some have a very good point.
The truth of the matter is that neither I nor you should feel trapped in a world we don't want to be in... there are ways out of it... they might have felt trapped in a world they did not want to live in before the referendum.

Having digested the disappointment, consoled a few colleagues, most of the actually British, I don't feel as gloomy... I would prefer someone like Sadiq Khan in charge of the boat, rather than Boris, but there is worse in life I suppose.

pinno

Surrey Commuter wrote:

The time for setting the rules has long since sailed

You are right. The effects of this vote will be irrevocable no matter what happens in the future, There is no Nirvana on the horizon for either camp.
However; better the devil you know.

pinno

25,000 extra sigs in 6 minutes.

There's a heck of a lot of pi$$ed off people out there.

pinno

Another 7k.

coopster_the_1st

Pinno wrote:

Another 7k.

Rather than continually bumping this thread and creating noise, let us know when it gets to 15 million+. Probably should be 16.8 million or so but it will only start to be of relevance when it gets near that!

surrey_commuter

Coopster the 1st wrote:

Pinno wrote:

Another 7k.

Rather than continually bumping this thread and creating noise, let us know when it gets to 15 million+. Probably should be 16.8 million or so but it will only start to be of relevance when it gets near that!

Surprised at you Coop - who gives a shit even if it reaches 30 million. People should have been doing all this bollocks before...

It is too late folks. If you want to do something positive check your relatives for possible foreign citizenship and figure out which companies/industries will be most badly hit and avoid them.

ugo.santalucia

Surrey Commuter wrote:

It is too late folks. If you want to do something positive check your relatives for possible foreign citizenship and figure out which companies/industries will be most badly hit and avoid them.

It's mostly manufacturing... I am surprised the banking sector wants to stay in the EU, given the huge tax breaks they will enjoy over here and lesser regulation. IMO there will be more jobs in finance and fewer in manufacturing, just as per Farage's campaign.. the referendum of the real people...

bendertherobot

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

It is too late folks. If you want to do something positive check your relatives for possible foreign citizenship and figure out which companies/industries will be most badly hit and avoid them.

It's mostly manufacturing... I am surprised the banking sector wants to stay in the EU, given the huge tax breaks they will enjoy over here and lesser regulation. IMO there will be more jobs in finance and fewer in manufacturing, just as per Farage's campaign.. the referendum of the real people...

It's pretty obvious, isn't it? I mean, that's the product we sell. So now we'll sell more of it. The idea that we were suddenly going to sell something tangible that doesn't exist was laughable.

ugo.santalucia

bendertherobot wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

It is too late folks. If you want to do something positive check your relatives for possible foreign citizenship and figure out which companies/industries will be most badly hit and avoid them.

It's mostly manufacturing... I am surprised the banking sector wants to stay in the EU, given the huge tax breaks they will enjoy over here and lesser regulation. IMO there will be more jobs in finance and fewer in manufacturing, just as per Farage's campaign.. the referendum of the real people...

It's pretty obvious, isn't it? I mean, that's the product we sell. So now we'll sell more of it. The idea that we were suddenly going to sell something tangible that doesn't exist was laughable.

Sad thing is that in Port Talbot they think now everthing in Britain will be made in Welsh steel... I bet in the North East manufacturing sites they think the same...

florerider

ugo.santalucia wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

It is too late folks. If you want to do something positive check your relatives for possible foreign citizenship and figure out which companies/industries will be most badly hit and avoid them.

It's mostly manufacturing... I am surprised the banking sector wants to stay in the EU, given the huge tax breaks they will enjoy over here and lesser regulation. IMO there will be more jobs in finance and fewer in manufacturing, just as per Farage's campaign.. the referendum of the real people...

It's pretty obvious, isn't it? I mean, that's the product we sell. So now we'll sell more of it. The idea that we were suddenly going to sell something tangible that doesn't exist was laughable.

Sad thing is that in Port Talbot they think now everthing in Britain will be made in Welsh steel... I bet in the North East manufacturing sites they think the same...

Steel is a good example of how Cam-moron behaved so badly though isn't it. In response to wanting the Chinese to invest in Hinkley Point he refused to co-operate with the EU on protecting steel against Chinese dumping. No way the French will let EDF do Hinkley Point now, the politics changed overnight, but the damage to steel remains.

Stevo_666

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Pinno wrote:

Sure. Ultimately, we are all going to have to get on with it. Don't you agree that there are so many unknown effects that we are going to be in a state of flux for a long long time? I resent being thrown into that unknown unwillingly.
.

Playing the devil's advocate... both me and you are scared, others see an opportunity. I frankly don't know if the economic instability is a price worth paying to shape your own future, but clearly a large number of brexiters do. They are not all idiots, some have a very good point.
The truth of the matter is that neither I nor you should feel trapped in a world we don't want to be in... there are ways out of it... they might have felt trapped in a world they did not want to live in before the referendum.

Having digested the disappointment, consoled a few colleagues, most of the actually British, I don't feel as gloomy... I would prefer someone like Sadiq Khan in charge of the boat, rather than Boris, but there is worse in life I suppose.

Devils advocate maybe, but a fair bit of common sense in that post.

sungod

ugo.santalucia wrote:

It's mostly manufacturing... I am surprised the banking sector wants to stay in the EU, given the huge tax breaks they will enjoy over here and lesser regulation. IMO there will be more jobs in finance and fewer in manufacturing, just as per Farage's campaign.. the referendum of the real people...

i'd assume the banks are twitchy as they rely on rights to operate that come from our membership of the single market so that they can operate across the eea

there's no guarantee the uk will retain that access, one of the eea's fundamental principles is freedom of movement of people, which is anathema to the leave campaign

it's logical for banks to look at how to reduce risk by starting/expanding operations in another eu financial capital, barring a surprise expansion of business, they'll also want to reduce operation somewhere else to compensate, i.e. london

if the uk one day accepts the terms to stay in the eea, banks can always decide if they want to return capacity to london or not

either way, the eu will be free to set banking regulation without the uk having any say, uk banks will still have to comply

banks not working in the eea may well benefit from laxer regulation, hardly an attractive proposition given the damage they did to us last time

florerider

I think it is rather different, the banks, law, insurance, investors and people with money and currency to deposit, etc all used to favour the UK as it had a long established stable political and legal system. After 2 referenda and such a stunning result that is no more, the UK is no longer considered a stable place in which to do business. That is the long term hit the UK will take, though arguably the instability was brought about by the decision to hold a referendum to break up the UK followed by one to leave the EU and the results themselves are secondary. Even had the result been remain, the idea that such events could even happen here will have scared a lot away.

Singapore has a similar legal system and is stable. It does an increasing amount of marine insurance and arbitration that London used to, and other sectors will be looking with interest. Watch this space.

Stevo_666

florerider wrote:

I think it is rather different, the banks, law, insurance, investors and people with money and currency to deposit, etc all used to favour the UK as it had a long established stable political and legal system. After 2 referenda and such a stunning result that is no more, the UK is no longer considered a stable place in which to do business.

Who has said this to you since the result was announced yesterday morning?

florerider

Stevo 666 wrote:

florerider wrote:

I think it is rather different, the banks, law, insurance, investors and people with money and currency to deposit, etc all used to favour the UK as it had a long established stable political and legal system. After 2 referenda and such a stunning result that is no more, the UK is no longer considered a stable place in which to do business.

Who has said this to you since the result was announced yesterday morning?

Said well before yesterday, in response to how deathly quiet London has been.

Stevo_666

florerider wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

florerider wrote:

I think it is rather different, the banks, law, insurance, investors and people with money and currency to deposit, etc all used to favour the UK as it had a long established stable political and legal system. After 2 referenda and such a stunning result that is no more, the UK is no longer considered a stable place in which to do business.

Who has said this to you since the result was announced yesterday morning?

Said well before yesterday, in response to how deathly quiet London has been.

You said 'after 2 referenda and such a stunning result....'

finchy

Give it a few months, let the people see the consequences of the decision, then if there is a change in the popular mood, why not offer a second referendum? Why does one vote have to determine the whole issue forever? Hopefully we'll still be in the EU at that point and they'll welcome us back.

Bobbinogs

Why not try this with General Elections too? Give it a few months and then we all get to vote again...and again until voter engagement is so low that only one man and his dog turn out with the dog having the casting vote.

We have had the referendum. Move on.

ukiboy

Yes. Let's have a second referendum. And if that doesn't deliver the desired result, let's have a third referendum..
....and if the 17th referendum doesn't deliver the result that the lefty liberal pink and fluffy brigade desire let's have another one too.

Roll on the British Soviet Peoples Scottish Republic!

sungod

Bobbinogs wrote:

Why not try this with General Elections too? Give it a few months and then we all get to vote again...and again until voter engagement is so low that only one man and his dog turn out with the dog having the casting vote.

We have had the referendum. Move on.

no

we had a referendum years ago, the leavers lost

instead of accepting it, moving on, and engaging to make a better union, they moaned, whined, disrupted and lied their way to where we are today, which is shafting the future of this country for their idiotic, xenophobic, little england fantasy

if it takes another referendum to crush that idiocy, bring it on

pinno

As posted in another thread:

Pinno wrote:

Oh, the irony:

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/second-refere ... 58194.html

Bobbinogs

sungod wrote:

Bobbinogs wrote:

Why not try this with General Elections too? Give it a few months and then we all get to vote again...and again until voter engagement is so low that only one man and his dog turn out with the dog having the casting vote.

We have had the referendum. Move on.

no

we had a referendum years ago, the leavers lost

instead of accepting it, moving on, and engaging to make a better union, they moaned, whined, disrupted and lied their way to where we are today, which is shafting the future of this country for their idiotic, xenophobic, little england fantasy

if it takes another referendum to crush that idiocy, bring it on

The last referendum in 1975 was on joining the common market. The EU now is much different (more like a European superstate) and I think many of those voting then will feel betrayed by what their votes were morphed into supporting.

I think we should have a good debate about how we make Brexit work. Nothing wrong with having another vote in 10 years time but let's make that one about the EU we would be joining....because I suspect the EU will be as different then as the EU now is to one that existed all that time ago (if you see what I mean).

bobmcstuff

http://podcast.ft.com/2016/06/24/brexit ... pens-next/

Interesting FT podcast on what happens next (assume it is free to access on that site but if not it's on iTunes and stitcher etc.)

pinno

Bobbinogs wrote:

sungod wrote:

Bobbinogs wrote:

Why...on.

no...on

I think we should have a good debate about how we make Brexit work. Nothing wrong with having another vote in 10 years time but let's make that one about the EU we would be joining....because I suspect the EU will be as different then as the EU now is to one that existed all that time ago (if you see what I mean).

They won't let us back in in 10 years time. They have made that clear.

Yes, let's have a good debate on how we make Brexit work. Let's even have cross party agreement but the implications of the Brexit has far reaching consequences:

2nd referendum for Scotland and the possible break up of the union.
Further dissent in the Eurozone.
A financial weakening of the very hand that feeds us - i'e the trade we have with Europe (37%).

We do trade with the rest of the world. We do have trade agreements other than in Europe. Are they somehow suddenly strengthened by leaving the EU?! No, they will remain the same.

On a macro scale, is it not better to be under the umbrella of a trading bloc in what is now such an intrinsically linked and very competitive global market place than out on an arrogant, isolationist limb? If our population was half of what it is and we had double the natural resources, I think we could but we don't and we are setting ourselves up against the rest.
If it goes t1ts up, we'll go cap in hand to the IMF and the Chinese* and thereby selling our souls to the highest bidder in 'Sell off UK PLC' 'cos we f*cked up and now we're broke.

*more than we have done already.

bobmcstuff

Pinno wrote:

Bobbinogs wrote:

sungod wrote:

Bobbinogs wrote:

Why...on.

no...on

I think we should have a good debate about how we make Brexit work. Nothing wrong with having another vote in 10 years time but let's make that one about the EU we would be joining....because I suspect the EU will be as different then as the EU now is to one that existed all that time ago (if you see what I mean).

They won't let us back in in 10 years time. They have made that clear.

Not sure you can say that - in ten years who knows who will be in power in Europe or whether they will share the opinions of Juncker et al.

Whether we would want to go back in or whether we'd get remotely acceptable terms is another matter entirely, but it might be possible.

finchy

Bobbinogs wrote:

Why not try this with General Elections too? Give it a few months and then we all get to vote again...and again until voter engagement is so low that only one man and his dog turn out with the dog having the casting vote.

We have had the referendum. Move on.

That's a completely different situation in that we only have to wait 5 years until we can vote the government out. With the EU, once we're out, that's possibly it. Getting back in could take a hell of a long time, if they even let us. If, in a few months' time, it is very clear that large numbers of people are expressing their desire to go back and change their vote, do we hold them to it? Just say "no, tough, you had your chance, you're not having another one, we're going to stick with this no matter what the damage"? If, in the future, before we formally leave the EU, this turns out to be a disastrous decision, at least give the people the chance to change their mind.

Stevo_666

Cotterend wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

How very European - keep voting until you get the 'right' answer. Maybe that's one of the reasons people voted to leave? :roll:

But Mr Farage himself wanted this on a narrow margin!

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ni ... um-7985017

Missed this one till now. So what you are sayimg is that the European elite are no better than Farage. Fair enough.

pilot_pete

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36634407

It would appear the pointless protest is full of fraudulent 'voters'. I heard on the Question Time special earlier that some 30,000+ registered voters on that site were located in the Vatican City, which is interesting considering its population! :roll:

PP

Bo Duke

florerider wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

florerider wrote:

I think it is rather different, the banks, law, insurance, investors and people with money and currency to deposit, etc all used to favour the UK as it had a long established stable political and legal system. After 2 referenda and such a stunning result that is no more, the UK is no longer considered a stable place in which to do business.

Who has said this to you since the result was announced yesterday morning?

Said well before yesterday, in response to how deathly quiet London has been.

This is the same baseless and worthless blurt that is misrepresented the campaign and it remains on the lips of apologists afterwards! Some little man sitting in the basement of the Russian disinformation department must be truly, truly envious.

Deathly quiet......on friday? The day the result was announced.. you're right... it's the end of the world.