Nearly 1 million signatures now for a second referendum
Cotterend
Posts: 73
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Signed it just to express how pissed off I am, I don't think it'll come to anything though (and I'm not really sure it's a good idea).0
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won't and shouldn't happen.0
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This^Garry H wrote:won't and shouldn't happen.
I am totally peed off at the result but it has happened, we have to deal with it. Any negative impacts of Brexit should be reflected in pensions and benefits. The recipients are the people who wanted out!
Traditionally I have a strong social conscience but I find it has left me this week.0 -
How very European - keep voting until you get the 'right' answer. Maybe that's one of the reasons people voted to leave? :roll:"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0
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I think Boris wants it. Jolion is by far the most insightful and sharp mind I ever had the pleasure to spend some time with
https://waitingfortax.com/2016/06/24/wh ... ean-maybe/left the forum March 20230 -
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well, the leavers didn't shut up for decades, they just kept on moaning, whining, disrupting, alienating and in some cases lying until we got to where we are today
as it is, of eligible voters: 28% didn't even vote, 35% voted leavers, 33% voted remain, that's a sign of a deeply divided population, not a clear mandate one way or the other
what goes around comes around, i'm happy to spend the next decades sticking it to the leavers like they have to mePinno wrote:
look on the bright side, two threads increases potential votesmy bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny0 -
Read the article that Ugo posted a link to SG. It's interesting despite the author being in the Remain side which lends it a bias that we cold do without.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0
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morstar wrote:
This^Garry H wrote:won't and shouldn't happen.
I am totally peed off at the result but it has happened, we have to deal with it. Any negative impacts of Brexit should be reflected in pensions and benefits. The recipients are the people who wanted out!
Traditionally I have a strong social conscience but I find it has left me this week.
Agreed.
This is offensive to those who voted to Leave and to their democratically taken decision. The fact that they may have voted for the wrong reasons or even been misled is neither here nor there; it was the duty of the electoral watchdogs and the Remain campaign to prevent that happening or to put the alternative case. They did not.
It would also be an insult to all those who fought (and in some cases, died) to get universal suffrage in the first place. The vote is binding. Let's move on.
PS: in case anyone thinks I'm just saying this 'cos I voted Leave, I was a staunch Remain voter from day 1, and the result made me weep. The people have spoken.
It's just a hill. Get over it.0 -
SecretSam wrote:morstar wrote:
This^Garry H wrote:won't and shouldn't happen.
I am totally peed off at the result but it has happened, we have to deal with it. Any negative impacts of Brexit should be reflected in pensions and benefits. The recipients are the people who wanted out!
Traditionally I have a strong social conscience but I find it has left me this week.
Agreed.
This is offensive to those who voted to Leave and to their democratically taken decision. The fact that they may have voted for the wrong reasons or even been misled is neither here nor there; it was the duty of the electoral watchdogs and the Remain campaign to prevent that happening or to put the alternative case. They did not.
It would also be an insult to all those who fought (and in some cases, died) to get universal suffrage in the first place. The vote is binding. Let's move on.
PS: in case anyone thinks I'm just saying this 'cos I voted Leave, I was a staunch Remain voter from day 1, and the result made me weep. The people have spoken.
Nice post. Respect.0 -
joe2008 wrote:SecretSam wrote:morstar wrote:
This^Garry H wrote:won't and shouldn't happen.
I am totally peed off at the result but it has happened, we have to deal with it. Any negative impacts of Brexit should be reflected in pensions and benefits. The recipients are the people who wanted out!
Traditionally I have a strong social conscience but I find it has left me this week.
Agreed.
This is offensive to those who voted to Leave and to their democratically taken decision. The fact that they may have voted for the wrong reasons or even been misled is neither here nor there; it was the duty of the electoral watchdogs and the Remain campaign to prevent that happening or to put the alternative case. They did not.
It would also be an insult to all those who fought (and in some cases, died) to get universal suffrage in the first place. The vote is binding. Let's move on.
PS: in case anyone thinks I'm just saying this 'cos I voted Leave, I was a staunch Remain voter from day 1, and the result made me weep. The people have spoken.
Nice post. Respect.
Totally wrong to ignore it and I won't be signing. I have signed the one for London to leave the UK.0 -
That's all very well Secret Sam but you said this:
"The fact that they may have voted for the wrong reasons or even been misled..."
and...
51.8 percent is not a majority. The result leaves Britain divided. I would have accepted a 60% leave vote. I think people were bought by the romantic conception of 'Independent Britain' and the number of people who voted leave have quickly changed their minds in the light of market volatility and the realisation that this is going to be a very bumpy ride. It also threatens not only EU integrity but UK integrity.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
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Pinno wrote:Read the article that Ugo posted a link to SG. It's interesting despite the author being in the Remain side which lends it a bias that we cold do without.
yes interesting indeed, trouble is the issue has become so polarised, due to pretty much all mainstream politicians, not just in uk and not just in the eu, having failed to listen to the people, communicate openly/honestly and pursue constructive reform, which i think pretty much everyone agrees is needed
for voters of all persuasions there seems little understanding of the true nature of the various eu structures, nor of the complex interrelationships and dependencies that exist between our nations
globalisation and automation drive many of the issues that people are dissatisfied about, being in or out of the eu will not change those one bit, though if human and employment rights are weakened things could get a whole lot worse
instead people have been fed nonsense for so long that it's become 'truth', the old yes minister episode about sausages was spot on, it is exactly how our politicians have acted, the media is also to blame, with some of the press so debased that it is no more than a mouthpiece to advance the interests of its owners irrespective of the cost to the nationmy bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny0 -
Stevo 666 wrote:How very European - keep voting until you get the 'right' answer. Maybe that's one of the reasons people voted to leave? :roll:
But Mr Farage himself wanted this on a narrow margin!
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ni ... um-79850170 -
..............seanoconn - gruagach craic!0
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sungod wrote:Pinno wrote:Read the article that Ugo posted a link to SG. It's interesting despite the author being in the Remain side which lends it a bias that we cold do without.
yes...nation
Yes, there is this notion that a bucket load of fundamental political and societal flaws will suddenly disappear by voting 'leave'.
In my own capacity having dealt with local council to regional council to the Scottish executive, it is so plain and clear that most of Joe Public do not have the slightest idea about the political system or how accessible it is.
For example, I knew a girl who worked at a corner shop and was at college until she had to stop because they had cut her Bursary off. I asked her why and she said that it was taken away because she had been off ill. I asked her if she could prove it. She said yes and after an enormous amount of pushing and shoving due to her total cynicism over the 'system', she conceded to come with me and speak to the local councillor. It was sorted in a jiffy, she got back her bursary including a back payment.
In my job, the waifs and strays are totally sceptical about politics and politicians. Alex Ferguson MSP and speaker of the Scottish House of Commons did his voluntary work with us every year for 7 years. Volunteers were often struck with how approachable he was. Tea break would often descend into political discussions and the effect was acute to the extent that the Volunteers were no longer cynical about him (the rest of them, the one's they hadn't met were corrupt).
I honestly think that the main problem with most of the electorate is that we have let them down because they are so dis-enfranchised and so bleeding thick.
Now, before anyone jumps on the PC bandwagon, if the Leave camp was littered with intellectuals, economists, pragmatists (and I do regard BoJo as one of them ironically, all be it with the wrong motives) I would be confident that the Leave brigade have the intellect and understanding to steer this country in the right direction, but I don't.
Farage has ignited the xenophobia and the prejudice and fuelled it with fear (plenty of insidious historical events mirrored there from Nazi Germany to Serbia), Boris is delusional to the point of dismissing the wider economic, social and political benefits of being in a Union whilst aiding his Tory party ambitions and some romantic notion of an 'independant Britain'. He may also be the architect of a fragmented, less affluent Europe as well as the break up of the UK.
I know that locally, this area has benefited hugely from the European Rural Development fund. Monies that would never have been procured from central Government yet the local populace (apart from farmers) have no idea of the benefits of being in the EU.
If I could, I would write a long letter of apology to all the Europeans for the actions of my citizens - a disclaimer if you like. I have travelled the length and breadth of Europe. I was born in Kenya and I see myself as a European. I know that may sound clichéd but I love Europe. I also loved the idea of Britain in Europe as part of an Economic, social and political union. The whole idea of being out of that union, cast aside, isolated, an island apart with it's entrenched island mentality is wrenching and almost feels like an amputation.
That stems from the prejudice that I was subjected to as school and I am still, wherever I go, subjected to the sort of bollox 'if you liked it so much, why did you leave?' and this innate scepticism of foreigners - the frogs, the krauts, the greasy spicks, etc etc: The British suffer badly from this deep xenophobia, without even realising it. My schooling in Kenya was multicultural and when abroad in Europe, I have felt more at home than in my adopted country. I have never been subject to any direct prejudice abroad.
If I can do anything, democratic or not, to change this result, I will.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
Pinno wrote:
If I can do anything, democratic or not, to change this result, I will.
There is a lot of confusion about democracy... it seems that giving right to vote to anyone aged 18 equals democracy... but it's not, unless you also give everyone aged 18 or over access to education and correct information. Information on both sides of the argument has been largely speculative and incorrect, aimed at provoking a fear based reaction and education is patchy around the country, as OFSTED ratings themselves clearly show.
Giving an uneducated and easily manipulated individual right to cast a vote is the furthest thing to democracy I can think of and this includes both sides of the argument... who won is largely down to which day was chosen for the referendum... a different day would have given a different result, not necessarily a better one for remain.
I think democracy is still waved as a great value of our society but it has been dropped a long time ago and not just in Britain... look at the kind of morons that routinely get elected around the world... the Berlusconi, the Donald Trump, the Bush, the Putin, the Mugabe...left the forum March 20230 -
A bit like the German in the harry Enfield show: "I would like to apologise for my nations conduct
... Yadda yadda." We've voted out so need to get moving before the hilterists of farage and gove get ahead of themselves.0 -
joe2008 wrote:Pinno wrote:
51.8 percent is not a majority.
Really, how does that work?
It's certainly a majority of those who could be bothered to vote.
I dont think maths is his strong point. "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
As I've said elsewhere, this is the reason we shouldn't have referenda. They never end up being conclusive and someone always tries to claim the winners haven't got a mandate because they factor in the numbers who couldn't be ar$ed to vote (that also gets used in normal elections too). Wales voted for devolution by a tiny amount on a ridiculously low turnout, I voted against but accept what we got and would have done if the difference had been a single vote. By the nature of these votes you end up with major division. I do however agree with Morstar and if cuts are required due to economic issues resulting from leaving they should be targeted at the demographics and regions that voted out (which unfortunately includes my own area).0
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At least we might finally get shot of the Scots.0
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Stevo 666 wrote:
"We the undersigned call upon HM Government to implement a rule that if the remain or leave vote is less than 60% based a turnout less than 75% there should be another referendum."seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
51.8% is still a majority, at least in the universe I inhabit.Pinno wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:
"We the undersigned call upon HM Government to implement a rule that if the remain or leave vote is less than 60% based a turnout less than 75% there should be another referendum."
Or are you just using a subtle way of saying that you're a bad loser?"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Stevo 666 wrote:
51.8% is still a majority, at least in the universe I inhabit.Pinno wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:
"We the undersigned call upon HM Government to implement a rule that if the remain or leave vote is less than 60% based a turnout less than 75% there should be another referendum."
Or are you just using a subtle way of saying that you're a bad loser?
The margin is so fine, is it simply a case of majority being defined simply as the greater amount? Philosophically, the split in the nation will cause so much strife. If the leave vote was on the 60+, I would accept that most of Britain voted out. But at 52%, the ramifications are unquantifiable both domestically and internationally.
You're happy. The result gives you reams of accounting to do.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
I disagree with those who say we shouldn't have had a referendum. This is exactly the sort of issue we should have a referendum on - something to do with the system by which we are governed rather than who has the reigns of power in that system and something on which divisions do not fall along traditional party lines.
As far as lack of information goes - there was more information available on this issue than any other I can remember - there was a huge amount of debate on social media and on television - unless we are going to have governance by technocrats then it's time to accept the decision and stop complaining about the process.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
The margin was around 1.2 million votes, that's not so fine.Pinno wrote:The margin is so fine, is it simply a case of majority being defined simply as the greater amount? Philosophically, the split in the nation will cause so much strife. If the leave vote was on the 60+, I would accept that most of Britain voted out. But at 52%, the ramifications are unquantifiable both domestically and internationally.
You're happy. The result gives you reams of accounting to do.
I voted in as you know, but you also know me well enough to know that I'll try to make the most of the real life situation that were in. So the upside is plenty of work for the future. Might even try for a pay hike.
Also its funny that many say this is such a complex issue that we cant know the implications (to the extent that some say people should not have a vote on it); then go on to say in the same breath how clear they are it will be an unmitigated clusterf***."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Stevo 666 wrote:
The margin was around 1.2 million votes, that's not so fine.Pinno wrote:The...internationally.
You're...do.
I...hike.
Also its funny that many say this is such a complex issue that we cant know the implications (to the extent that some say people should not have a vote on it); then go on to say in the same breath how clear they are it will be an unmitigated clusterf***.
Sure. Ultimately, we are all going to have to get on with it. Don't you agree that there are so many unknown effects that we are going to be in a state of flux for a long long time? I resent being thrown into that unknown unwillingly.
Some of the damage may be irrevocable no matter how much we 'make do' and 'get on with it'. I just hope that true indomitable British resolve takes over and quickly.
Eggs will break in the making of this Brexit omelette.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0
