Muhammed Ali

letap73
letap73 Posts: 1,608
edited June 2016 in The cake stop
I don't normally post with regards to the death of a person who is far removed from family and social sphere. But I do feel a seismic shift.

A man who represented the best and worst of us. A man who apparently found a spritual peace despite being afflicted by Parkinsons in the most horrible way. A true cultural icon.
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Comments

  • cornerblock
    cornerblock Posts: 3,228
    Indeed he was. If ever a person deserved the title The Greatest then he certainly did. I feel privelidged to have been around at the same time as him. May he RIP.

    "I done wrestled with an alligator, I done tussled with a whale; handcuffed lightning, thrown thunder in jail; only last week, I murdered a rock, injured a stone, hospitalised a brick; I'm so mean I make medicine sick."
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,325
    If you haven't, you have to watch "when we were kings", it's an absolute must to understand why he was the greatest sportsman of all times
    left the forum March 2023
  • letap73
    letap73 Posts: 1,608
    Asked how he would like to be remembered, he once said: "As a man who never sold out his people. But if that's too much, then just a good boxer. I won't even mind if you don't mention how pretty I was."
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,108
    He was certainly a very charismatic man and a fantastic boxer.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • wishitwasallflat
    wishitwasallflat Posts: 2,927
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vd9aIamXjQI
    Principles and humour what a man, sadly missed.
  • bbrap
    bbrap Posts: 610
    Great as he was, I find the blanket coverage a bit excessive.
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  • mamba80
    mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    bbrap wrote:
    Great as he was, I find the blanket coverage a bit excessive.

    He was a great boxer, possibly the best ever heavy weight but he was also very cruel with it, he was also a womaniser, who treated even his own wife(s) with contempt.

    i guess like all idols, he also had feet of clay.
  • pinno
    pinno Posts: 52,501
    So much charisma, so magnetic and never offensive and even when shouting his mouth off, not the slightest bit intimidating.
    It's just so sad that he carried on after his 3rd World Title win - perhaps he felt compelled to live up to his own 'the greatest' and boxing defined him. Maybe if he hadn't, the damage would not have been so severe.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yT9ZrJqIMSM

    “I'm so fast that last night I turned off the light switch in my hotel room and was in bed before the room was dark.”.
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • tangled_metal
    tangled_metal Posts: 4,021
    Great boxer, wit, personality, etc. that's all. Sorry if this is offending you but I find the way media and others paint a saintly picture of deceased celebrities, musicians and prominent sportsmen. He had talent, used it well (if a little too much after it left him). He'll be remembered but he's not a cultural icon or more than a great boxer with a huge personality. Greatest? Perhaps in his field but that's all.

    Having said that in the light of how he seemed to cope with his Parkinson's disease I think he's a good role model for others with that or other progressive conditions. He still faced the public in his decline with honour and bravery. He confronted people with it and got recognition, IMHO, for others with it. I noted Michael J. Fox came out to express his views on the guy.
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    Tangled Metal wrote:
    Great boxer, wit, personality, etc. that's all. Sorry if this is offending you but I find the way media and others paint a saintly picture of deceased celebrities, musicians and prominent sportsmen. He had talent, used it well (if a little too much after it left him). He'll be remembered but he's not a cultural icon or more than a great boxer with a huge personality. Greatest? Perhaps in his field but that's all.

    Having said that in the light of how he seemed to cope with his Parkinson's disease I think he's a good role model for others with that or other progressive conditions. He still faced the public in his decline with honour and bravery. He confronted people with it and got recognition, IMHO, for others with it. I noted Michael J. Fox came out to express his views on the guy.

    You are not giving him enough credit for his stance on Vietnam and civil rights in general. If he had been drafted he would have gone nowhere near the frontline... he would have been in the army boxing team. At a time of racial segregation he stood up and was counted when many others ended up dead for similar behaviour. In my opinion he transcended sport.
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    Pinno wrote:
    So much charisma, so magnetic and never offensive and even when shouting his mouth off, not the slightest bit intimidating.
    It's just so sad that he carried on after his 3rd World Title win - perhaps he felt compelled to live up to his own 'the greatest' and boxing defined him. Maybe if he hadn't, the damage would not have been so severe.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yT9ZrJqIMSM

    “I'm so fast that last night I turned off the light switch in my hotel room and was in bed before the room was dark.”.

    that is wrong, Joe Frasier never forgave him for the pre-fight comments he made.
  • pinno
    pinno Posts: 52,501
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    Pinno wrote:
    So...dark.”.

    that is wrong, Joe Frasier never forgave him for the pre-fight comments he made.

    Isn't that the sort of pre-fight banter and anything goes? All is fair in love and war, so they say. We only get snippets and not the full picture. Maybe, deep down, Ali was scared of Frasier.

    Besides, as said before, it''s the media that portrays the icons as they want to see them, not as they are - susceptible to common human flaws just like the rest of us.
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    Pinno wrote:
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    Pinno wrote:
    So...dark.”.

    that is wrong, Joe Frasier never forgave him for the pre-fight comments he made.

    Isn't that the sort of pre-fight banter and anything goes? All is fair in love and war, so they say. We only get snippets and not the full picture. Maybe, deep down, Ali was scared of Frasier.

    Besides, as said before, it''s the media that portrays the icons as they want to see them, not as they are - susceptible to common human flaws just like the rest of us.

    see my comment above about Ali's greatness transcending sport... however he was no angel in both words and deeds.
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,108
    Yes, he's inspirational but not in everything he ever did. If you have success and charisma people will overlook a lot.

    That said we have to judge him by the standards of the day and the environment he grew up in as a black man and some of his less acceptable views are perhaps understandable in that context.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,490
    bbrap wrote:
    Great as he was, I find the blanket coverage a bit excessive.
    I agree with all the good things being said, but this too.
    Not so much what is being said, but the repetaiveness on the BBC is getting wearisome.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • capt_slog
    capt_slog Posts: 3,974
    edited June 2016
    Pinno wrote:
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    Pinno wrote:
    So...dark.”.

    that is wrong, Joe Frasier never forgave him for the pre-fight comments he made.

    Isn't that the sort of pre-fight banter and anything goes? All is fair in love and war, so they say..

    I recall his interviews with Micheal Parkinson, which my parents used to watch and therefore so did I. There were times on there he was the 'nice guy', clever and witty. But I also remember the occasion when he became quite belligerent regarding western women and how they dressed (perhaps how their husbands 'allowed them to dress'?)

    He was certainly offensive that time.


    The older I get, the better I was.

  • mamba80
    mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    Cant believe no one picked up on my comment " he had feet of CLAY "
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,490
    mamba80 wrote:
    Cant believe no one picked up on my comment " he had feet of CLAY "
    Read it. Ignored it.
    Do all idols have feet of Clay?
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • bompington
    bompington Posts: 7,674
    PBlakeney wrote:
    mamba80 wrote:
    Cant believe no one picked up on my comment " he had feet of CLAY "
    Read it. Ignored it.
    Do all idols have feet of Clay?
    Only the gaseous ones
  • MikeBrew
    MikeBrew Posts: 814
    pompington wrote:
    PBlakeney wrote:
    mamba80 wrote:
    Cant believe no one picked up on my comment " he had feet of CLAY "
    Read it. Ignored it.
    Do all idols have feet of Clay?
    Only the gaseous ones


    Hmmm, here we appear to have an assortment of the sublimely gormless commenting inanely on the sublimely gifted... I thought piers (Yes, with a small p) Morgan had already called shotgun on that particular gig on Twatter ... :roll:

    BTW the plural of wife is Wives not Wife(s).
  • bompington
    bompington Posts: 7,674
    Do you know, I think Ali has finally found his match in cutting wit.
  • MikeBrew
    MikeBrew Posts: 814
    edited June 2016
    bompington wrote:
    Do you know, I think Ali has finally found his match in cutting wit.
    Hey we got the gist from you first offering - you're new to thinking. No need for the written confirmation, Pompington. :roll:
    The thread was clearly started for folk wanting to pay their respects, and not as a platform for some parochial dog botherer like you to show us all what a" wag" they think that they are. Grow a pair little man.
  • pinno
    pinno Posts: 52,501
    On a Saturday night in Stranraer, if someone called me 'sublimely gormless', I could safely say that I had pulled. However, seen as we don't generally speak in more than one syllabub words, i'd hazard a guess that it was a stray tourist mumbling bollox.

    There might be trouble Brewing...
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • MikeBrew
    MikeBrew Posts: 814
    See the above.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,490
    I believe that the appropriate behaviour now is to surround them shouting "fight, fight, fight.."
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • mamba80
    mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    PBlakeney wrote:
    mamba80 wrote:
    Cant believe no one picked up on my comment " he had feet of CLAY "
    Read it. Ignored it.
    Do all idols have feet of Clay?


    you know how to hurt....

    i used to be my daughters idol, she now knows i m made entirely of clay
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,490
    mamba80 wrote:
    PBlakeney wrote:
    mamba80 wrote:
    Cant believe no one picked up on my comment " he had feet of CLAY "
    Read it. Ignored it.
    Do all idols have feet of Clay?


    you know how to hurt....

    i used to be my daughters idol, she now knows i m made entirely of clay
    Didn't have you down as an over sensitive sort.....
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • pinno
    pinno Posts: 52,501
    edited June 2016
    Surely that's: 'No need for written confirmation'. The 'the' participle suggests an authority dishing out written warnings for idiocy. Would that possibly be you MB, after all you seem to be a much higher being than us mere mortals?
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • mamba80
    mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    PBlakeney wrote:
    mamba80 wrote:
    PBlakeney wrote:
    mamba80 wrote:
    Cant believe no one picked up on my comment " he had feet of CLAY "
    Read it. Ignored it.
    Do all idols have feet of Clay?


    you know how to hurt....

    i used to be my daughters idol, she now knows i m made entirely of clay
    Didn't have you down as an over sensitive sort.....

    if you had a toothache like mine, you'd be xxxxing sensitive too :lol:
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,490
    mamba80 wrote:
    if you had a toothache like mine, you'd be xxxxing sensitive too :lol:

    Strangely enough....... May explain any grumpiness.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.

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