#fail cycle superhighway in London

imatfaal

vpnikolov wrote:

imatfaal wrote:

vpnikolov wrote:

Was just browsing TfL's website and realised that the speed bumps along Embankment are supposed to be ped crossings (link below) :shock: :shock: :shock: . They might make it clearer with more markings, even signs...

Crossing the Cycling Track

Surely all but one do have the different colour gritty surface? They are pretty easy to spot - but any further changes/markings and they may be tempted to put up traffic lights which would be ridiculous.

They do, but how does that make them ped crossings? Anyway... how many cyclists are actually aware of this?

Highway Code - Crossings

Quite confusing... just paint them as proper zebra crossings to avoid any doubt and lower these god damn speed bumps. Imagine if you have to stop just before the ramp and then go again... bloody nightmare if you have to clip in.

My trouble is that I am a complete child and I like jumping over them - on the hybrid I am getting good air.

And on the zebra paintjob - they are not zebras just raised crossings so that peds who might have trouble with curbs (pushcair, wheelchair, rolling luggage) have an easier route; ie they are not a change in priority.

vpnikolov

From the video it looked like it is a change in priority, hence my zebra comment. Will check again when I go back home.

imatfaal

vpnikolov wrote:

From the video it looked like it is a change in priority, hence my zebra comment. Will check again when I go back home.

Watched the video and am a bit confused too now. I think the idea is less than a zebra but not quite just a normal bit of path/sleeping policeman

fat_tail

well my ride home heading west from the Wharf is now much faster than it has been in the past thanks to the superhighway. coming in is another story. although progress on the superhighway is rapid the timing of the lights leaves much to be desired.

tgotb

fat_tail wrote:

well my ride home heading west from the Wharf is now much faster than it has been in the past thanks to the superhighway. coming in is another story. although progress on the superhighway is rapid the timing of the lights leaves much to be desired.

I guess it's because the lights at any major junction now need to have about 30 phases.

Pufftmw

I'm fortunate in that I don't have to travel on the new Superhighway (bar 100m in Aldgate) but I do have to cross the new East/West bit at Tower Hill. I come over Tower Bridge and (inevitably have to) wait at the lights there, then veer left towards Minories to follow the road round to Mansell/Aldgate Hi St. Then there is another set of lights where the CS is.

Before the CS, you used to be able to leave Tower Bridge and get safely across those lights. They've now changed the sequencing so that almost as soon as Tower Bridge lights change the next set go red. This results in a 2 minute wait until they change to green again.

The knowledgeable amongst you will say - "well why not go straight ahead towards Royal Mint St (CS) and under the bridge and come out Mansell/junction Prescot?". That is indeed an option but to do that you have to use the shared pavement under the bridge, you have to cross Chamber Street, which is always full of cars trying to pull out sometimes 2 abreast and 2 further pedestrian/cycle crossings to get there. In addition, the shared pavement is narrow and not so well defined, the ramps up/down have those knobbly paving slabs which are together with the raised line ones on the shared path, are lethal in the wet and the actual access to the shared pavement is not well defined. In short its both dangerous and ill thought out.

All it needs is an extra 30 seconds on that second set of lights that will allow a cyclist to safely get from Tower Bridge to the Minories. I've tried a Cavendish racing start and I'd be at least 5 seconds over the red and ultimately splatted if I RLJ'd. It wouldn't make much/any difference to traffic heading East.

Anywhere I can go to request this?

ManiaMuse

TGOTB wrote:

fat_tail wrote:

well my ride home heading west from the Wharf is now much faster than it has been in the past thanks to the superhighway. coming in is another story. although progress on the superhighway is rapid the timing of the lights leaves much to be desired.

I guess it's because the lights at any major junction now need to have about 30 phases.

It's strange how many light phases we need at junctions in this country. In Europe and Australia/New Zealand a lot of junctions do away with the pedestrian only phase and traffic is allowed to turn at the same time as pedestrians are crossing on green but have to give way to pedestrians if they are crossing at the same time. Seems to work safe enough, would create more road capacity in a lot of places (up to 20 seconds on each traffic light cycle).

rower63

Having spent a few days sticking strictly to pre-super-highway routes and seeing people using the Westminster – Blackfrairs highway cruise past and away from me, I decided today to take the plunge.

I did the first 2/3rds of PS in the usual way, lights were in my favour. As the top-left-corner lights went green, I stayed right to join the new highway route. I was quickly stopped at the top-right (bike-lane) lights, whilst the main road lights were still green. whatleytom I think went past at that point. I waited and waited and waited (actually 60 seconds according to Strava). Bike lights went green, I headed towards Westminster Bridge, which took 30 seconds, and stopped at the next lights (red) to go left onto the Embankment proper. Cue more waiting, this time 90 seconds.

Eventually, these went green and I was off. I’d lost exactly 3 minutes to whatleytom and the cars from the top-left point of PS.

However, later on I arrived at some lights just near St Pauls at the same time as him. He said he'd used the main roads all the way.

So, with today’s phasing and traffic at least, sticking strictly to the bike highways from the top-left corner of PS the (very short) route to the Embankment took 180 seconds (3 minutes) longer than if I’d used the main roads. But I made all that up again once on the highway between there and St Paul’s.

In future I’ll be using the main roads all the way around until just about to go over Westminster Bridge, and will then cut left into the bike lane from there.

tgotb

rower63 wrote:

In future I’ll be using the main roads all the way around until just about to go over Westminster Bridge, and will then cut left into the bike lane from there.

I've tried this in a couple of different places, and the light phasing always seems to block the critical turn with a stream of pedestrians. I wonder whether the solution might be to actually become a pedestrian for a few yards...

I was following the bike lane from Parliament Square onto Westminster Bridge Road this morning, and almost had to stop for a horde of oncoming cyclists using the full width of the lane.

mile muncher

[/quote]....My trouble is that I am a complete child and I like jumping over them - on the hybrid I am getting good air.

And on the zebra paintjob - they are not zebras just raised crossings so that peds who might have trouble with curbs (pushcair, wheelchair, rolling luggage) have an easier route; ie they are not a change in priority.[/quote]

Yeah this, the speed bumps may slow down road cyclists which is good as this section should just be neutralised zone for cruising and not racing, if you want to go fast get in with the traffic.....however I went along it on my full susser yesterday and it was AWESOME FUN, its a ready made table top/jump track, it positively encourages hooligan behaviour :twisted: so I'm not sure they considered that aspect Selll your road bikes and get an MTB.

I must agree the lights as you turn left onto P'ment Sq coming over Westminster Bridge as being dangerous, I stopped at it today as I was aware of it, but a National Express Coach breezed through with 10 seconds to go on the ped green man, scattering peds/tourists as he went, its just a matter of time until someone gets splatted unless they change it quick.

And I still have no idea what is supposed to happen on the northbound Vaux Bridge one if you want head to Victoria, the lane just fizzles out and ends and to get back on Vaux Bridge road requires a sketchy move and I keep seeing cyclists completely stumped as there's no signs or any clues as to where you should go next....

As Rower states they do need to look at the timings as there are a number of places along the cycle routes where it is quicker for cyclists to stay in the traffic lanes to get thro lights and then veer onto the cycle lane afterwards, I do this every time now coming from Pimlico towards Vauxhall as the lighting sequence at John Islip St takes FOREVER and I CBA to wait when its easy to just stay with the traffic. This means the way they have set it up encourages cyclists to flit from one to the other, which cannot be safe. Similarly I've tried the new back of the bus lanes northbound ones at Elephant a few times this week and the last set of lights is so long you can grow a beard there, so I now regularly jump these lights when the coast is clear, which I'm sure isn't the desired effect either. So not too bad so far but it still needs fine tuning.

rower63

The whole thing around PS feels massively over-engineered. It probably looks fine on paper, and might work in a world where

- people don’t mind sitting for minutes at red lights while the right-of-way would be clear if their bike was just 3 inches to the left
- bikes don’t criss-cross the various lanes cherry-picking main-road vs bike-lane depending which is green at the time (I do this)
- all bikes and cars strictly obey light-timings and never anticipate or do “burnt ambers”
- pedestrians only cross on “green person” and are always alert

As it is, PS feels like a video game with lots of pre-arranged traps and hazards that take a while to learn.

bikergirl17

has anyone seen that random cyclist wait & turn recently painted at holborn circus by the north west corner? not a CLUE who would be waiting there and for what unless one is keen on being hit by a bus.

the other issue is that there doesn't seem to be drains (which on one hand is great) so there was considerable water that had taken out one lane yesterday ...

i can't figure out blackfriars either, and DESPITE HAND SIGNALLING VERY CLEARLY and looking back to see if i had clearance, a cyclist literally side swiped me with his handle bars as i tried to turn.

i am starting to wonder whether even if this had actually been designed with cyclists in mind, it comes down to the cyclist and pedestrian behaviour -- and it will never NOT be a mad free for all with a high probability of being taken down.

rick_chasey

rower63 wrote:

The whole thing around PS feels massively over-engineered. It probably looks fine on paper, and might work in a world where

- people don’t mind sitting for minutes at red lights while the right-of-way would be clear if their bike was just 3 inches to the left
- bikes don’t criss-cross the various lanes cherry-picking main-road vs bike-lane depending which is green at the time (I do this)
- all bikes and cars strictly obey light-timings and never anticipate or do “burnt ambers”
- pedestrians only cross on “green person” and are always alert

As it is, PS feels like a video game with lots of pre-arranged traps and hazards that take a while to learn.

Just smash it twice as hard up Milbank - use the extra 3 minutes to recover, before the smash down Vicky embankment.

surrey_commuter

Rick Chasey wrote:

rower63 wrote:

The whole thing around PS feels massively over-engineered. It probably looks fine on paper, and might work in a world where

- people don’t mind sitting for minutes at red lights while the right-of-way would be clear if their bike was just 3 inches to the left
- bikes don’t criss-cross the various lanes cherry-picking main-road vs bike-lane depending which is green at the time (I do this)
- all bikes and cars strictly obey light-timings and never anticipate or do “burnt ambers”
- pedestrians only cross on “green person” and are always alert

As it is, PS feels like a video game with lots of pre-arranged traps and hazards that take a while to learn.

Just smash it twice as hard up Milbank - use the extra 3 minutes to recover, before the smash down Vicky embankment.

This is the correct answer

rhodrich

I just can't decide whether to stick to the road, or to the cycle lane on Embankment. The main section does seem a little quicker than the road in some ways, but you can't gun it for fear of suicide peds/ boris bikers/ rogue speed humps/ people coming the other way/ traffic lights that pop out from behind trees/ people waiting to turn.

Stick to the road, and you can make good progress, but get stuck behind cars. Go on the bike track, and you've got to slow down due to all the extra hazards.

Going East, how does the lane get you through the Blackfriar's tunnel?

On balance, I think it's just safer on the road, which is ultimately what counts. A lot more predictable. Theoretically, it can be quicker in the cycle lane, but it's just not worth it, with all the extra hazards.

rower63

I put the theory into practice this morning and nailed PS. I entered PS from the South on the main road (bike lights were red, main lights green). I went all the way around on the main road and headed straight towards Westminster Bridge, entering the bike lane at the last moment just before the Bridge started. I ran no red lights, I broke no rules, I passed 4 gaggles of patiently-waiting cyclists at their various lights around the square and then I sailed along the bike lane making great progress against the traffic on the main road. Very sweet.

Rhodrich, the way to get across and over to the left at Blackfriars is simply to carry straight on – the lane takes you up the old Blackfriars down-ramp, then bear left. The light-phasings there seem quite good.

rick_chasey

So how do you make that final jump onto the path after PS without getting left hooked?

iPete

That's a great move rower and I should have done it after you told me but alas, joined the gaggle and watched other people doing it!

Rick Chasey wrote:

So how do you make that final jump onto the path after PS without getting left hooked?

Left hooked by what? you take the straight on lane going over the bridge and then turn left onto the highway.

Koncordski

Ok, the lunch time joggers are starting to get on my tits.

Ian.B

rower63 wrote:

I put the theory into practice this morning and nailed PS. I entered PS from the South on the main road (bike lights were red, main lights green). I went all the way around on the main road and headed straight towards Westminster Bridge, entering the bike lane at the last moment just before the Bridge started. I ran no red lights, I broke no rules, I passed 4 gaggles of patiently-waiting cyclists at their various lights around the square and then I sailed along the bike lane making great progress against the traffic on the main road. Very sweet.

Rhodrich, the way to get across and over to the left at Blackfriars is simply to carry straight on – the lane takes you up the old Blackfriars down-ramp, then bear left. The light-phasings there seem quite good.

That's what I've done the last couple of days. But it seems to involve crossing the pedestrian crossing at the entrance to the bike lane when pedestrians have a green light. There's nothing I can see to indicate this is a prohibited manoeuvre (a red light, a no left turn sign or whatever - I can see that changing if lots of cyclists start doing this) so I've taken the view that for now, provided you give way to any pedestrians actually crossing, it is a legitimate move.

The design of the Blackfriars crossover is pretty awful, with narrow access/exit points and 90 degree left and right turns with large numbers of cyclists in both directions. There is plenty of road space to smooth out and widen the lanes here.

In the past I have usually avoided Upper/Lower Thames St east of Blackfriars, and diverted up QVS and Cannon Street, but now no longer do so as that is now one of the best bits of the new cycle path (except for the narrow turn into the side tunnel)

I think it is quicker overall to use the cycle path with a much better chance of a clear run through, but west of Blackfriars I feel safer in the traffic.

iPete

Took 5 to look at some numbers on PS. It's not the greatest data set ever but shows a steady decline in speed year on year and I don't think it's my fitness in decline, err. With more time 2016 will probably come down to 5-7mph.

Gone are those days when you could nail every green light.

Year/n/speed
2012 74 11.2mph
2013 18 10.8mph
2014 21 10.6mph
2015 20 9.9mph
2016 39 9.3mph
https://www.strava.com/segments/12068509

fenix

Blimey - so the average speed of all traffic is falling in London !

iPete

Caveat(s), that's one very short segment, I'll do the same for Embankment later but there are lots of factors in my data such as calming the f**k down & being less of an Allez riding chopper, adding a fixie to the fleet, changing routes and times, adding recover rides and a steady decline in SCR.

bikergirl17

How about before super amazing highway & after?
The powers who be should read this thread - some very good points made esp the number of people - seasoned commuters - who think wiser to avoid.

fenix

Isn't the main issue that cyclists don't know how to ride ? Well why should they ? Most commuters haven't been in cycling clubs and cycling proficiency is probably a long time ago....

More education ?

rick_chasey

I took rower's advice through parliament square.

Worked well, though cars heading south over Westminster bridge were not best pleased.

fat_tail

Rick Chasey wrote:

I took rower's advice through parliament square.

Worked well, though cars heading south over Westminster bridge were not best pleased.

will try it tomorrow morning !

mile muncher

New one on me, 11.15am yesterday I was cycling south down Farringdon St in the new fangled cycle lanes approaching the Fleet St/Ludgate Hull junction, when low and behold a Nissan Micra is driving up the segregated cyce lane towards me :shock: . I pull to one side giving it my best one handed 'Team America Emergency Signal' , he drives part me about 200m, then obviously realises somethings up, perhaps the lack of other cars or perhaps the big painted bicycle logos painted on each lane. I look back to see him attempting to escape over the middle bit back into the car section, I tutt and fear for anyone cycling near this douche.

Are there any cameras recording and fining for this sort of thing on the newly opened bits? Are TFL explaining these incidents away as the public 'getting used' to the new layout, like the Elephant omni-shambles? Last week I saw a tourist coach turn right from Southwark St into the cycling section on Blackfriars bridge, realising his mistake and having to reverse back out, causing no end of chaos, full car horn rage from miserable drivers and resigned tutts from cyclists. Never mind the joggers, we can't even keep motor traffic out of the segregated bits :roll:

roger_merriman

iPete wrote:

Caveat(s), that's one very short segment, I'll do the same for Embankment later but there are lots of factors in my data such as calming the f**k down & being less of an Allez riding chopper, adding a fixie to the fleet, changing routes and times, adding recover rides and a steady decline in SCR.

I only go that way a few times a year, plus various GPS over the years and high buildings and tunnels which effect GPS lock.

so thus far the best I have is 6 matches which is this https://www.strava.com/segments/5330881

for myself 2012 is 6:42/7:49/7:55
2013 is much the same at 7:30
by 2014 I'd switched from a road SS to a old MTB which does muddy the waters. time was 8:48
nothing matched that segment for 2015
2016 10:22

my hunch is that from blackfriars-tower is the slow bit, you seem to hit every light, which seems on a long cycle. on the other hand is nicer never like that bit.

Parliament Square is very slow and fairly confusing TBH. The humps are a bit unfriendly.

On the whole I like it.

vimfuego

Used the section from Tower Hill to Southwark Bridge in anger for the first time last night. As I was headed West there seemed to be a handful of mopeds and motorbikes coming towards me having jumped the kerb to undertake queuing traffic :shock: a number of them were using the raised section as an undertaking lane but a couple were in the cycle path itself. A bit off-putting as you head down the hill from TH, but at least they were aware of my presence & got out of the way as I approached.

What was most annoying with this section is the lack of a left turn onto Southwark Bridge (going South). Basically have to slow down, indicate right and pull off onto the cycle track running north/south & wait at the phased light there - which means crossing against oncoming bike traffic as well as that coming from behind. Despite signalling and shoulder checking as obviously as possible, I still nearly got rear ended in the process. Not sure this junction has been thought through, which is odd given that it's the intersection between CS3 and CS7 (if all the blue paint is to be believed).