Advice on position
Comments
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Fear you are obsessing about this too much. The solution is probably simpler than you believe - get out on your bike and ride it.
Take tools to adjust saddle height, tilt and fore/aft position. Ride for a few miles, see how it feels, adjust where required, if it feels worse after you have adjusted it, move it back. If it feels better, leave it. Keep riding.
It really shouldn't take too long to get the saddle comfortable, and as said above, that is the main thing.
What will take time is establishing core strength, particularly in your lower back. There is really only one solution to that - ride your bike more. I experienced lower back pain when riding for the first 18 months or so, but that was entirely because my body was not strong enough. The pain went without me adjusting my saddle, it went because I got stronger.
When you are happy with your saddle height and position you can think about whether you can flip that stem to its acceptable position
, and whether you feel stretched out or crunched up. That is then potential for further adjustment.
You are only going to be comfortable riding your bike when you ride your bike a lot - it's a physically demanding activity which needs physical conditioning to be done without pain.0 -
Losing some weight may help with the back pain or maybe that just a baggy jersey
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Moonbiker wrote:Losing some weight may help with the back pain or maybe that just a baggy jersey
It's both. The jersey is very baggy, I hadn't realised just by how much, although it is my indoor training jersey so aero isn't a consideration. It was also bought when I was 10kg heavier than I am now, but I am also 11kg (at least) heavier than I should be. I've lost 10kg so far this year, so getting there 
Fear you are obsessing about this too much. The solution is probably simpler than you believe - get out on your bike and ride it.
Take tools to adjust saddle height, tilt and fore/aft position. Ride for a few miles, see how it feels, adjust where required, if it feels worse after you have adjusted it, move it back. If it feels better, leave it. Keep riding.
That's the approach that largely has gotten me into this problem in the first place. It would seem I naturally 'perfer' the saddle to be too high, and feel that this is comfortable, even if it's putting my body into all sorts of problems.What will take time is establishing core strength, particularly in your lower back. There is really only one solution to that - ride your bike more. I experienced lower back pain when riding for the first 18 months or so, but that was entirely because my body was not strong enough. The pain went without me adjusting my saddle, it went because I got stronger.
Core strength is indeed a big issue, I'm going to try Pilates as recommend by the physio, if the classes don't work out then I'll at least spend a couple of mornings a week on the exercises.
Riding more is definitely a thing and isn't replaced by turbo trainer rides, and it's generally early in the year when my back issues are at their worst.
Given the way my back is going at the moment it might still be a couple of weeks before I can ease back into it.0 -
markhewitt1978 wrote:That's the approach that largely has gotten me into this problem in the first place. It would seem I naturally 'perfer' the saddle to be too high, and feel that this is comfortable, even if it's putting my body into all sorts of problems.
Or at least, that is what the fitters have told you.markhewitt1978 wrote:Core strength is indeed a big issue, I'm going to try Pilates as recommend by the physio, if the classes don't work out then I'll at least spend a couple of mornings a week on the exercises.
Just ride the bike, that is the best exercise for riding a bike. You ARE going to suffer some pain for probably some fairly lengthy time.
Have a look at a bike. It is not an armchair, it's not supposed to be comfortable, it's designed for travelling quickly. You need to ride it to get your body used to it. Do a minimum of 4 hours a week, with at least one longer (1h30) plus ride and see if it doesn't get better within a month.0 -
One further question on fit. I made some changes to my turbo bike, which was the same height as my road bike. It resulted in me dropping the saddle over 2cm (actually went to the minimum and I've left it there).
In relation to bar height, obviously that a massive topic in it's own right, but it would seem reasonable and 'neutral' to start off with by having the bars level with the saddle? Would that seem reasonable? On my turbo bike that meant dropping the bars by 2cm.
I know "one thing at a time" but still 0 -
markhewitt1978 wrote:One further question on fit. I made some changes to my turbo bike, which was the same height as my road bike. It resulted in me dropping the saddle over 2cm (actually went to the minimum and I've left it there).
In relation to bar height, obviously that a massive topic in it's own right, but it would seem reasonable and 'neutral' to start off with by having the bars level with the saddle? Would that seem reasonable? On my turbo bike that meant dropping the bars by 2cm.
I know "one thing at a time" but still
You have a bike and a turbo bike?
Seriously, I'd take the advice of the poster above who counsels more riding.
As to your most recent question, I think a similarly relevant one might be: If I eat all the blue Smarties first, how many ducks make a balloon sing?
It really is just a bicycle and requires no rocket science, brain surgery or professional fit.
I note that you've lost 11kg in a year. That's a big drop in weight and will have all sorts of effects on your core. I note also that you intend (?) to lose about the same again. So just get on the bike and get at it. Do lots of flexing and bending and try lots of positions while on the turbo. The advice to take a set of keys out on a ride and make nip-tuck adjustments mid-ride is excellent.
There is a good set-up for you. In fact there are several. You are not Alberto Contador. Find a happy position, pedal around. Have fun.0 -
Whilst riding around making small changes may work for some, IMO it' doesn't work consistently for everyone I did that as well as taking advice from other cyclists about my position and to a degree thought how I sat on the bike was fine. In reality my position was out loads, but small changes here and there meant I adapted to a less than ideal position so long rides would still give me issues but it was masked somewhat as it was better than before.
After my bike fit I felt completely at odds with the bike, some much so I was tempted to change it back, I lost power and because I was engaging different muscles I got tired very quickly, it did to a degree make me wonder if I'd wasted the cash.
I preservered and after a couple of weeks it started to click, I now feel more powerful, I climb better, can get aero in the drops for a lot longer, I feel more balanced whilst cornering and I no longer get a sore back/shoulders/hands anymore.
The trick is not to get just any bike fit using fancy computer programs etc but to get someone who comes recommended and who knows what their doing. I had a rutel fit which was lengthy and not cheap, but without a shadow of a doubt can say it was the experience of the guy doing the fit that made the difference.
Find a reputable and recommended fitter and go that route if you want it done properly!Obsessed is a word used by the lazy to describe the dedicated!0 -
if getting bike fits will make you feel happy then go for it. others have suggested the plumb line method and other things. one thing is very clear. your saddle is way too high and you've highlighted the issues its causing you. if you are comfortable and have a decent bit of core strength and flexibility you can adjust your position on the fly to adapt. but really you shouldn't need to. I went through the same as you, rocking hips, pedalstroke at the bottom not working effectively. I still use the same frame size but have adjusted the saddle down, just slightly and moved it slightly forward, so I can engage through more of the pedal stroke. this was done with the aid of a retul bike fit and a flexibility test to fine tune. do a video of you from the left side working the bike at a normal cadence for a minute and then the right side for the same duration. lets see how you've progressed...0
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JesseD wrote:Whilst riding around making small changes may work for some, IMO it' doesn't work consistently for everyone I did that as well as taking advice from other cyclists about my position and to a degree thought how I sat on the bike was fine. In reality my position was out loads, but small changes here and there meant I adapted to a less than ideal position so long rides would still give me issues but it was masked somewhat as it was better than before.
That's partly been my issue really. Not just with saddle height but the likes of stem length too. I've variously had 70mm, 80mm and 90mm stems on and all have felt comfortable in some ways but not in others! Which is why I went for bike fits, but then it seems they aren't always reliable either!
I went through the heel pedal process on my turbo trainer bike, setting it up a little bit until my knee was locked out with my heel on the pedal. Ended up 10mm down on my previous level. Only did 10 mins Zwift with it and I haven't looked at layback yet.I still use the same frame size but have adjusted the saddle down, just slightly and moved it slightly forward, so I can engage through more of the pedal stroke. this was done with the aid of a retul bike fit and a flexibility test to fine tune. do a video of you from the left side working the bike at a normal cadence for a minute and then the right side for the same duration. lets see how you've progressed...
There's a place in Newcastle that does retul fits, I might look at that a bit down the line, first I want to get into a position which isn't going to injure me, then I'll work on gradual changes which might improve my performance too.0 -
a retul fit helped get my position dialled. also advised me to get pedal extenders to prevent heel strike on chainstays. this one bit of advice has had the biggest effect on my riding comfort, and my bike shoe purchasing.--
Burls Ti Tourer for Tarmac, Saracen aluminium full suss for trails0 -
andrewjoseph wrote:a retul fit helped get my position dialled. also advised me to get pedal extenders to prevent heel strike on chainstays. this one bit of advice has had the biggest effect on my riding comfort, and my bike shoe purchasing.
They push your feet out sideways? I must admit my heels hitting the chainstays is an issue for me.0 -
markhewitt1978 wrote:JesseD wrote:Whilst riding around making small changes may work for some, IMO it' doesn't work consistently for everyone I did that as well as taking advice from other cyclists about my position and to a degree thought how I sat on the bike was fine. In reality my position was out loads, but small changes here and there meant I adapted to a less than ideal position so long rides would still give me issues but it was masked somewhat as it was better than before.
That's partly been my issue really. Not just with saddle height but the likes of stem length too. I've variously had 70mm, 80mm and 90mm stems on and all have felt comfortable in some ways but not in others! Which is why I went for bike fits, but then it seems they aren't always reliable either!
I went through the heel pedal process on my turbo trainer bike, setting it up a little bit until my knee was locked out with my heel on the pedal. Ended up 10mm down on my previous level. Only did 10 mins Zwift with it and I haven't looked at layback yet.I still use the same frame size but have adjusted the saddle down, just slightly and moved it slightly forward, so I can engage through more of the pedal stroke. this was done with the aid of a retul bike fit and a flexibility test to fine tune. do a video of you from the left side working the bike at a normal cadence for a minute and then the right side for the same duration. lets see how you've progressed...
There's a place in Newcastle that does retul fits, I might look at that a bit down the line, first I want to get into a position which isn't going to injure me, then I'll work on gradual changes which might improve my performance too.
Go see Adrian Timmis at Cadence Sport in Burton. He starts his fits from the feet up. Caveat: I have'nt been to him myself but have had glowing reports from those who have. It's on my agenda to do, once I get my bikes sorted!0 -
Camcycle1974 wrote:Go see Adrian Timmis at Cadence Sport in Burton. He starts his fits from the feet up. Caveat: I have'nt been to him myself but have had glowing reports from those who have. It's on my agenda to do, once I get my bikes sorted!
165 miles is a bit of a trek 0 -
markhewitt1978 wrote:andrewjoseph wrote:a retul fit helped get my position dialled. also advised me to get pedal extenders to prevent heel strike on chainstays. this one bit of advice has had the biggest effect on my riding comfort, and my bike shoe purchasing.
They push your feet out sideways? I must admit my heels hitting the chainstays is an issue for me.
yeah, got really good duck feet. my wife as a bit of the same issue and the same extenders make a big difference to her too.
The issue was pointed out at the retul fit, my heel strike was causing me to ride toe down a little... well, a lot. :oops:
However, we both ride mtb's and our tourer has 135mm rear hub, so the chainstays come out wider than most road bikes.
i've bought 2cm pedal extenders for all our bikes.
https://www.i-ride.co.uk/Pedal-Spacers-1.aspx#options--
Burls Ti Tourer for Tarmac, Saracen aluminium full suss for trails0 -
andrewjoseph wrote:markhewitt1978 wrote:andrewjoseph wrote:a retul fit helped get my position dialled. also advised me to get pedal extenders to prevent heel strike on chainstays. this one bit of advice has had the biggest effect on my riding comfort, and my bike shoe purchasing.
They push your feet out sideways? I must admit my heels hitting the chainstays is an issue for me.
yeah, got really good duck feet. my wife as a bit of the same issue and the same extenders make a big difference to her too.
The issue was pointed out at the retul fit, my heel strike was causing me to ride toe down a little... well, a lot. :oops:
However, we both ride mtb's and our tourer has 135mm rear hub, so the chainstays come out wider than most road bikes.
i've bought 2cm pedal extenders for all our bikes.
https://www.i-ride.co.uk/Pedal-Spacers-1.aspx#options
Does that not affect your fit having your legs further apart?
It used to be a big issue for me on 170mm cranks. Less so on 165mm but it's still an issue.0 -
markhewitt1978 wrote:Camcycle1974 wrote:Go see Adrian Timmis at Cadence Sport in Burton. He starts his fits from the feet up. Caveat: I have'nt been to him myself but have had glowing reports from those who have. It's on my agenda to do, once I get my bikes sorted!
165 miles is a bit of a trek
Maybe or you could take the family with you for a nice day out in Burton-Upon -Trent :P
Depends where you are but there must be a decent bike fitter near to you.0 -
markhewitt1978 wrote:...
Does that not affect your fit having your legs further apart?
It used to be a big issue for me on 170mm cranks. Less so on 165mm but it's still an issue.
It's not noticeable to me or my wife. I haven't put my saddle down. it's been 91cm from top of pedal at furthest point for many years.--
Burls Ti Tourer for Tarmac, Saracen aluminium full suss for trails0 -
it think the larger giant shops have a fit service.--
Burls Ti Tourer for Tarmac, Saracen aluminium full suss for trails0 -
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darkhairedlord wrote:
i'm failing to see your point.--
Burls Ti Tourer for Tarmac, Saracen aluminium full suss for trails0
:oops: :shock: :? 
