Budget £9k, choose me a bike.

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  • webboo
    webboo Posts: 6,087
    Shortfall wrote:
    I had 3.5k to spend a couple of years ago and went bespoke titanium. For the same sort of money as a cookie cutter, generic carbon bike (albeit a very good one) I got a one off frame that's made to measure and Campagnolo Record groupset and Zonda wheels. I guess there's bike builders and bike builders but anything that's coming out of a factory, no matter how good it might be, is going to be full of inherent compromises. It has to fit a range of different cyclists with a range of different weights, fitness levels and techniques. There're many good examples of such bikes but having owned a few in my time I can testify that going bespoke was the best thing I ever did. You have something unique, something made by a craftsman, something that will (in the case of steel or titanium) last you at least a lifetime and will be a joy to ride because the guy who made it knows as exactly what you want out of it. It's a bit like the difference between an Aston Martin and a Ford Fiesta turbo. The Fiesta is probably nearly as quick on a racetrack and doing 0 to 60 away from the lights, but you don't really lust after it and within 12 months of owning it you'll be bored to tears cos it's just another Ford. The Aston on the other hand will look, sound and feel just as good as the day you bought it ten years down the line, it may even improve with age, and will have a character and aura about it that the Ford can never match. You'll want to polish it and just stare at it and you'll cars about every little blemish or piece of bird sh1t it gets on it. It's not that Fords are bad cars, it's just that you want the Aston Martin a gazillion times more. Just my two pennorth worth. I hope you get something you love. Good luck.
    Why is someone who works in a factory rather than a shed at the bottom of their garden not a craftsman. In the heyday of British Engineering factory's were full of craftsmen. I just wonder how long these bespoke frame builders actually spent learning their trade months or years. The minimum to be a skilled Engineer used to be 5 years with a following year to bed in.
  • shortfall
    shortfall Posts: 3,288
    edited December 2016
    Webboo wrote:
    Shortfall wrote:
    I had 3.5k to spend a couple of years ago and went bespoke titanium. For the same sort of money as a cookie cutter, generic carbon bike (albeit a very good one) I got a one off frame that's made to measure and Campagnolo Record groupset and Zonda wheels. I guess there's bike builders and bike builders but anything that's coming out of a factory, no matter how good it might be, is going to be full of inherent compromises. It has to fit a range of different cyclists with a range of different weights, fitness levels and techniques. There're many good examples of such bikes but having owned a few in my time I can testify that going bespoke was the best thing I ever did. You have something unique, something made by a craftsman, something that will (in the case of steel or titanium) last you at least a lifetime and will be a joy to ride because the guy who made it knows as exactly what you want out of it. It's a bit like the difference between an Aston Martin and a Ford Fiesta turbo. The Fiesta is probably nearly as quick on a racetrack and doing 0 to 60 away from the lights, but you don't really lust after it and within 12 months of owning it you'll be bored to tears cos it's just another Ford. The Aston on the other hand will look, sound and feel just as good as the day you bought it ten years down the line, it may even improve with age, and will have a character and aura about it that the Ford can never match. You'll want to polish it and just stare at it and you'll cars about every little blemish or piece of bird sh1t it gets on it. It's not that Fords are bad cars, it's just that you want the Aston Martin a gazillion times more. Just my two pennorth worth. I hope you get something you love. Good luck.

    Why is someone who works in a factory rather than a shed at the bottom of their garden not a craftsman. In the heyday of British Engineering factory's were full of craftsmen. I just wonder how long these bespoke frame builders actually spent learning their trade months or years. The minimum to be a skilled Engineer used to be 5 years with a following year to bed in.

    I suppose the answer to that is some guys making frames in garden sheds will be crap at it, which is why any sensible person would check out reviews first, they will have been recommended by someone they respect or they might have chatted to people who have bought a bike from him previously or maybe gone to visit the builder and spoken with him in person and looked at the state of his garden shed (joke) and generally got a feel for if they wanted to spend their cash there. One thing for sure, many of the mass market carbon frames won't be built by a craftsman. They'll be put in a mould by someone in China, probably earning the same in a month that you or I earn in a day. That still doesn't make it a bad bike but then that's the beauty of choice. The OP has 9 grand to spend and whether he ends up happy with his purchase is entirely subjective. There isn't a right or wrong answer here, we're just offering our opinions. If you like factory bikes then they're right for you. If you've never taken a punt on a handmade bike though you'll never know if it could be better. I have and I know what I think.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,310
    There is no evidence that a frame made by someone in England is better than one made by a factory in China at a fraction of the cost. The former can be bespoke, which is a bonus, but in terms of build quality there might be no difference or the difference might be in favour of the mass produced one.
    left the forum March 2023
  • fat daddy
    fat daddy Posts: 2,605
    £9k

    I think I would buy 3 bikes and scratch a couple of itches :-

    27.5+ mtb
    1x CX
    1x single speed/fixie
  • trailflow
    trailflow Posts: 1,311
    Shortfall wrote:
    Something made by a craftsman, something that will (in the case of steel or titanium) last you at least a lifetime


    That's a myth. Titanium frames are very prone to cracking.
  • shortfall
    shortfall Posts: 3,288
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    There is no evidence that a frame made by someone in England is better than one made by a factory in China at a fraction of the cost. The former can be bespoke, which is a bonus, but in terms of build quality there might be no difference or the difference might be in favour of the mass produced one.

    You're asking for evidence for qualities that are difficult to quantify. If bike A is faster or lighter than bike B then it is measurable but then I might not want a bike that weighs 6kg or gets Alberto Contador round the Grand Tours in record speed. I could make a case that my ten quid Casio digital watch is "better" than a £10,000 Brietling because it loses less time and I can go swimming without it getting destroyed. But which watch do you want if I give you the choice?
  • andyrac
    andyrac Posts: 1,170
    You can buy a lot of bike for £9K. However, I'd go for a Mason Bokeh, with the Sram Rival groupset & 650b wheels. And I'm intrigued by the Cannondale Slate CX Rival.....and I'd still have enough for Whyte Hardtail MTB.
    All Road/ Gravel: tbcWinter: tbcMTB: tbcRoad: tbc"Look at the time...." "he's fallen like an old lady on a cruise ship..."
  • shortfall
    shortfall Posts: 3,288
    trailflow wrote:
    Shortfall wrote:
    Something made by a craftsman, something that will (in the case of steel or titanium) last you at least a lifetime


    That's a myth. Titanium frames are very prone to cracking.

    I've not heard that. When you say they're prone to cracking can you quantify what you mean? Are they more prone to cracking than frames built from steel, alu or carbon? I don't doubt that there is a failure rate for ti frames but I'd need to see some figures and context before I can take your claim seriously. I have seen evidence of cracks on or near the welds on ti bikes but I hear it's a very difficult metal to work with compared to say steel. That doesn't make it prone to cracking, just prone to cracking if it's not done right surely?
  • smoggysteve
    smoggysteve Posts: 2,909
    Unless you are a pro, there is no 9k bike you can make go faster than a 2k bike so just a waste of money. Why not just invrst the cash? You never know whats around the corner. Thought redundancy would have taught you that.
  • mr_evil
    mr_evil Posts: 234
    Shortfall wrote:
    ...When you say they're prone to cracking can you quantify what you mean?..
    Aside from the weld contamination problem, titanium is more notch-sensitive than steel. This means that any stress concentration, be it from a poor design, poor welding, or damage through use, is more likely to end up developing into a crack.

    A titanium frame should still last a lifetime though. You just have to make sure it's properly designed and built, and not dented or deeply scratched.

    Sadly there are no statistics available on bicycle frame failure rates, so no one knows whether the proportion of failed Ti frames is higher or lower than for other materials. You can only guess from looking at what people report in places like this forum.
    https://mrevil.asvachin.eu/
  • shortfall
    shortfall Posts: 3,288
    Mr Evil wrote:
    Shortfall wrote:
    ...When you say they're prone to cracking can you quantify what you mean?..
    Aside from the weld contamination problem, titanium is more notch-sensitive than steel. This means that any stress concentration, be it from a poor design, poor welding, or damage through use, is more likely to end up developing into a crack.

    A titanium frame should still last a lifetime though. You just have to make sure it's properly designed and built, and not dented or deeply scratched.

    Sadly there are no statistics available on bicycle frame failure rates, so no one knows whether the proportion of failed Ti frames is higher or lower than for other materials. You can only guess from looking at what people report in places like this forum.

    Thanks. That confirms what I thought. In the absence of any data we can only guess or at least base our buying decisions on the reputation of the material and the frame builder or manufacturer.
  • shortfall
    shortfall Posts: 3,288
    SmoggySteve wrote:
    Unless you are a pro, there is no 9k bike you can make go faster than a 2k bike so just a waste of money. Why not just invrst the cash? You never know whats around the corner. Thought redundancy would have taught you that.

    Owning a bike is so much more than going fast surely?
  • smoggysteve
    smoggysteve Posts: 2,909
    Shortfall wrote:
    SmoggySteve wrote:
    Unless you are a pro, there is no 9k bike you can make go faster than a 2k bike so just a waste of money. Why not just invrst the cash? You never know whats around the corner. Thought redundancy would have taught you that.

    Owning sa bike is so much more than going fast surely?

    You can still own a nice bike without spending 9k. Its a little sad you have to put a level of value on what suddenly makes a bike good.
  • shortfall
    shortfall Posts: 3,288
    SmoggySteve wrote:
    Shortfall wrote:
    SmoggySteve wrote:
    Unless you are a pro, there is no 9k bike you can make go faster than a 2k bike so just a waste of money. Why not just invrst the cash? You never know whats around the corner. Thought redundancy would have taught you that.

    Owning sa bike is so much more than going fast surely?

    You can still own a nice bike without spending 9k. Its a little sad you have to put a level of value on what suddenly makes a bike good.

    Why is it sad? I wouldn't dream of blowing 9k on a bike but I have blown 3.5k on one and to me that was a ridiculous sum. The OP has 9k to spend, he loves bikes, so why not? Some people do that on a holiday, some do it on a car, how do you put a value on it?
  • smoggysteve
    smoggysteve Posts: 2,909
    Shortfall wrote:
    SmoggySteve wrote:
    Shortfall wrote:
    SmoggySteve wrote:
    Unless you are a pro, there is no 9k bike you can make go faster than a 2k bike so just a waste of money. Why not just invrst the cash? You never know whats around the corner. Thought redundancy would have taught you that.

    Owning sa bike is so much more than going fast surely?

    You can still own a nice bike without spending 9k. Its a little sad you have to put a level of value on what suddenly makes a bike good.

    Why is it sad? I wouldn't dream of blowing 9k on a bike but I have blown 3.5k on one and to me that was a ridiculous sum. The OP has 9k to spend, he loves bikes, so why not? Some people do that on a holiday, some do it on a car, how do you put a value on it?

    The fact someone comes on here and asks what to spend 9 grand on either knows sfa about bikes or is just here to gloat the fact that he has the cash. Or both.

    I say buy a Canyon Ultimate for about 4 grand. Its all the bike you will ever need. You will never be able to buy a bike that is twice as good for double the cost. Then save the rest for something else.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,310
    I think you guys are giving advice to someone who has long gone and is probably being driven around a golf course
    left the forum March 2023
  • Moonbiker
    Moonbiker Posts: 1,706
    Several people i know have had there titanium frames crack.

    Also the same for steel & alu though.
  • shortfall
    shortfall Posts: 3,288
    SmoggySteve wrote:
    Shortfall wrote:
    SmoggySteve wrote:
    Shortfall wrote:
    SmoggySteve wrote:
    Unless you are a pro, there is no 9k bike you can make go faster than a 2k bike so just a waste of money. Why not just invrst the cash? You never know whats around the corner. Thought redundancy would have taught you that.

    Owning sa bike is so much more than going fast surely?

    You can still own a nice bike without spending 9k. Its a little sad you have to put a level of value on what suddenly makes a bike good.

    Why is it sad? I wouldn't dream of blowing 9k on a bike but I have blown 3.5k on one and to me that was a ridiculous sum. The OP has 9k to spend, he loves bikes, so why not? Some people do that on a holiday, some do it on a car, how do you put a value on it?

    The fact someone comes on here and asks what to spend 9 grand on either knows sfa about bikes or is just here to gloat the fact that he has the cash. Or both.

    I say buy a Canyon Ultimate for about 4 grand. Its all the bike you will ever need. You will never be able to buy a bike that is twice as good for double the cost. Then save the rest for something else.

    I take your point but you seem to be Ok with blowing 4k on a bike which to some people would seem an obscene amount of money to spend on a plaything. And as you rightly point out, it wouldn't be twice as good as a bike costing 2k. For that matter it wouldn't be 4 times better than a bike costing a grand. Let's be honest, we all know guys or we have mates that could thrash us riding a 500 quid Sora equipped Ribble even if we were on Chris Froomes bike. So I guess for the OP he's realistic about any actual performance or speed gains he's gonna get (or at least I hope he is). He's got 9k that he obviously doesn't need for anything else and he wants to treat himself. Is that so bad? Some people blow that kind of money on coke and stuff, now that IS sad!
  • gweeds
    gweeds Posts: 2,605
    It's the OP's money. He can do what he likes with it.
    Napoleon, don't be jealous that I've been chatting online with babes all day. Besides, we both know that I'm training to be a cage fighter.
  • JesseD
    JesseD Posts: 1,961
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    I think you guys are giving advice to someone who has long gone and is probably being driven around a golf course

    To be fair I don't think there is much advice being given on this thread.

    IMO the OP has a large amount of cash available to him to buy a new bike and came on here to get suggestions. He may have researched lots of different bikes but posted to see if anyone had any suggestions that he may not have come across, it doesn't mean he knows SFA. There is a lot of knowledge on BR forums and there is nothing wrong in trying to tap into that.

    Personally I could go custom with that amount of cash, I like the analogy of the saville row suit, and i agree with it, you buy a Hugo Boss off the peg suit and yes it will be well put together using good materials, but there will always be a compromise as it is designed to fit a wide range of people, whereas a bespoke suit will fit just that little bit better, you get what you want exactly with no compromises (budget permitted).

    OP - have you made a decision now?
    Obsessed is a word used by the lazy to describe the dedicated!
  • cougie
    cougie Posts: 22,512
    I'm with ugo. If he'd bought a bike he would have been back now.

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