Budget £9k, choose me a bike.
Comments
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Feel sorry for the OP. All he wanted was suggestions for what bike to buy with his 9K windfall from redundancy. Seems that some posters were miffed at the very idea of buying such an expensive bike. Now he's getting a debate about the aesthetics of a particular custom frame.
How about some practical ideas for him to consider?0 -
Mercia Man wrote:Feel sorry for the OP. All he wanted was suggestions for what bike to buy with his 9K windfall from redundancy. Seems that some posters were miffed at the very idea of buying such an expensive bike. Now he's getting a debate about the aesthetics of a particular custom frame.
How about some practical ideas for him to consider?
This is what £5k gets you :-)
WyndyMilla Massive Attack | Rourke 953 | Condor Italia 531 Pro | Boardman CX Pro | DT Swiss RR440 Tubeless Wheels
Find me on Strava0 -
Mercia Man wrote:
How about some practical ideas for him to consider?
Yes, you don't need to waste anywhere near 9k on a push-bike. Definitely not on a spectacularly Fugly, FannyCraddock/Filament/Dickymint or what ever it's called, anyway....
If you really feel that you still want a 9k bike, just buy a 4.5k bike and flush the other 4.5 k...the net result is, by any objectively measurable criterion, exactly the same.0 -
Yawn.
Here you go OP. But you'll need another £2k.
http://road.cc/content/tech-news/186221 ... -road-bikeNapoleon, don't be jealous that I've been chatting online with babes all day. Besides, we both know that I'm training to be a cage fighter.0 -
Oops, some supercilious little sausage has missed their afternoon nap.........0
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Fenix wrote:I've had three custom bikes made for me. It was quite common back in the day. Lovely bikes but let's not get carried away. They are only bikes.
How many pros get custom bikes made now? And how long do they spend riding them?
Does the average Sunday rider need a custom frame?
Unless you've freaky dimensions - it's getting a bit like the Emperors New Clothes.
That;s because they're contractually obliged to ride the frames they are give. Which envairably means they have to fit a stock off the peg frame. Which then results in odd negative stems etc0 -
Oh well, as long as you didn't disturb Snow White and the other five....0
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MikeBrew wrote:Does a lot of money on a bespoke frame necessarily mean it's better, in any remotely tangible or demonstrable way, than a factory built alternative though ? Surely small frame builders lack the R+D budget and experience of the like of Cannondale who have been in the industry far longer, and hence can produce highly competent frames without asking exorbitant prices...
Case in point, look at this lemon
Built by thep reviously named Craddock Cycles , recently renamed Filament - presumably due to no one wanting to be called a Fanny on a Craddock- this is a circa £2700 custom built frame, and yetit has a has couple of inches of stem spacers and a minuscule stem ? Not to mention the head-tube towering over the top tube by a couple of inches. Custom built - Really ? Or just really badly ?
Well it's different and some people will pay a lot of money for that. To some insecure souls it doesn't even have to be "superior", "better" or even "good" just different. :roll:
Getting things right often occurs slowly over time, with lots of mistakes along the way. The likes of Cannondale have served their apprenticeship and are now in the master craftsman league. Why pay through the nose to an apprentice for one of their early Mary Shelly-esque creations ? Just to be different ?
We don;t know the background to this frame. Also, you cannot comment on how well the frame is put together. However, going custom does rely on the frame builder being a good frame designer, something that's not always the case. I went to visit a bike fitter/frame designer as part of my custom build. He took measurements, fitted me on a jig and then drew up a comprehensive frame design for the builder, angles, tube lengths even stem length etc all taken care of. The result was a bike that nor only rides perfectly for me, it looks 'right'.0 -
Gweeds wrote:Yawn.
Here you go OP. But you'll need another £2k.
http://road.cc/content/tech-news/186221 ... -road-bike
The problem I see with something like that is that it is at all unlike a luxury car. If for instance you buy a top of the range McLaren and you have to wait two years to get one, in view of that it will retain most if not all its value and in time it might even become a classic and increase its value, it's not uncommon... so effectively if you have a million pounds to spend on a car, it might be a good investment to do so and in the mantime enjoy it.
10K or more buy you a luxury bicycle, which you might have to wait two years for, that as soon as it passes hand loses about half its value if not more (why would you pay 5K for someone's used bike if you can get a Venge with all the warranty and badges for the same money?) and in time it will become worthless, as there isn't an industry that touches up scratches and resotre components like new, which does exist for cars.
In that respect, it is like buying a Skoda with a luxury price tag, 'mfraid.
The rarest antique bicycles, true works of art which are over 100 years old and restored to perfection pass hand for about 2 grand on Ebay, so even there it's not worth stocking on those special edition groupsets and pseudo-unique parts, as they are worthless tooleft the forum March 20230 -
Indeed, though looking at it, one might well be tempted to speculate that they started building it for one customer, then adapted it to fit a very different morphology halfway through the actual construction.We don;t know the background to this frame.
.Also, you cannot comment on how well the frame is put together
However, the "custom" design looking so cock-eyed does do little to inspire much confidence in the actual execution of the build, now that you mention it .However, going custom does rely on the frame builder being a good frame designer, something that's not always the case. I went to visit a bike fitter/frame designer as part of my custom build. He took measurements, fitted me on a jig and then drew up a comprehensive frame design for the builder, angles, tube lengths even stem length etc all taken care of. The result was a bike that nor only rides perfectly for me, it looks 'right'.
Absolutely. Clearly this thing doesn't look right at all...0 -
If you're thinking of a tandem...
There could be a good reason to have those spacers, such as to mount a bag or light. Or maybe the customer just likes them.MikeBrew wrote:...and yetit has a has couple of inches of stem spacers...
There's nothing magic about the common 110mm stem length. Some people like the way that short or long stems handle.MikeBrew wrote:...and a minuscule stem ?..
Extending the head tube above the top tube is frequently done for very tall people precisely because it looks less strange than a massive space inside the frame.MikeBrew wrote:...Not to mention the head-tube towering over the top tube by a couple of inches...0 -
Mercia Man wrote:
How about some practical ideas for him to consider?
People keep shouting me down or ignoring my Cannondale Slate suggestions.
My blog: http://www.roubaixcycling.cc (kit reviews and other musings)
https://twitter.com/roubaixcc
Facebook? No. Just say no.0 -
Well assuming that the rider is 7 foot tall with very short arms, and is carrying and overnight bag on his TT with a ford Anglian headlight mounted to the steerer beneath the stem, MrEvil just might be right, on all 3 points.
On the other hand, it could just be a very inept design, by a relative novice to the frame building industry. The company is, I understand, pretty much a one man band working from home.0 -
MikeBrew wrote:
Indeed, though looking at it, one might well be tempted to speculate that they started building it for one customer, then adapted it to fit a very different morphology halfway through the actual construction.We don;t know the background to this frame.
.Also, you cannot comment on how well the frame is put together
However, the "custom" design looking so cock-eyed does do little to inspire much confidence in the actual execution of the build, now that you mention it .However, going custom does rely on the frame builder being a good frame designer, something that's not always the case. I went to visit a bike fitter/frame designer as part of my custom build. He took measurements, fitted me on a jig and then drew up a comprehensive frame design for the builder, angles, tube lengths even stem length etc all taken care of. The result was a bike that nor only rides perfectly for me, it looks 'right'.
Absolutely. Clearly this thing doesn't look right at all...
I'm sure the joints will be wrapped well etc but you're right, it doesn't instil confidence, especially how it will handle!0 -
Would suggest before knocking Craddock / Filament taking a look at his website gallery. There is also a thread on weight weenies on his frames.
As i recall, he is an ex aerospace or F1 Carbon specialist and the build quality and methods look first class.0 -
Flintlock wrote:
As i recall, he is an ex aerospace or F1 Carbon specialist and the build quality and methods look first class.
Which is it ? And how, in your estimation, does that automatically translate into excellence in bicycle design and manufacture ?
That aside, my overall point is that bespoke, however well designed and executed, doesn't necessarily give you anything over and above what you get from a decent a factory frameset - other than a very expensive feel good factor.0 -
Flintlock wrote:Would suggest before knocking Craddock / Filament taking a look at his website gallery. There is also a thread on weight weenies on his frames.
As i recall, he is an ex aerospace or F1 Carbon specialist and the build quality and methods look first class.
I wasn't disputing his build qualities, and yes I've seen his other work (although it's not my cup of tea). Rather I was commenting on the frame design of that particular frame, geo etc and how it might affect handling. Most of how a bike handles is down to angles, balance of the rider on the bike etc0 -
I think you might also find that his offerings aren't truly bespoke as - if my understanding is correct - forks and rear triangles are sourced outside of house... Whatever, £2700 is a lot of money to pay a relative newcomer to the game, when very accomplished proven frame-sets are available from other sources with big company back-up. Likely for considerably less coin.
For instance, assuming you can get an off the peg fit, is the very best offering from someone like Craddock going to be as good as something like an S-works or an Evo ? The answer to that , I feel, has to be a very loud and resounding no.0 -
I simply meant that being a composites engineer, and also looking at the attention to detail in his manufacture they appear to be a very high quality frame. Your seem to be judging this frame simply on your opinion of how it looks.
http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum ... 0&t=1324860 -
Flintlock wrote:I simply meant that being a composites engineer, and also looking at the attention to detail in his manufacture they appear to be a very high quality frame. Your seem to be judging this frame simply on your opinion of how it looks.
http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum ... 0&t=132486
From that, I'm guessing you missed this bit ..
:idea:MikeBrew wrote:That aside, my overall point is that bespoke, however well designed and executed, doesn't necessarily give you anything over and above what you get from a decent a factory frameset - other than a very expensive feel good factor.
And to be fair, it does LOOK shite...If you really want to delve deeper into this particular builder, you also want to consider what the sudden name change(away from his surname)and complete change in lug methodology means ?0 -
MikeBrew wrote:I think you might also find that his offerings aren't truly bespoke as - if my understanding is correct - forks and rear triangles are sourced outside of house... Whatever, £2700 is a lot of money to pay a relative newcomer to the game, when very accomplished proven frame-sets are available from other sources with big company back-up. Likely for considerably less coin.
For instance, assuming you can get an off the peg fit, is the very best offering from someone like Craddock going to be as good as something like an S-works or an Evo ? The answer to that , I feel, has to be a very loud and resounding no.
You can only claim that if you've ridden both. I suspect you haven't0 -
I'd be much happier spending on a Berk or Filament frame over an s works, having followed the former's work for years via WW. Or indeed something like a Sarto. I think the comments about the frame's looks earlier are a bit unwarranted. It's not even built up.
Not to say an s works would be anything other than a great frame but I'd be wanting something that I'd had a hand in developing, from paint to geo to layup.0 -
So, on balance, what would YOU say the chance of one bloke building bikes in his garage since 2015, getting a product that is already the equal of that produced, after many years of refinemen, by a company that has been in the business for decades and has huge resources, is ? Fair to middling or non existentPtest wrote:You can only claim that if you've ridden both. I suspect you haven't
That is, if you really thought about it.
I suspect you haven't....
You might also like to note that what I actually said was that, that was my feeling on the subject. I think you'll find tha, despite your view to the contrary, I'm amuniquely qualified to claim that I know my own feeling on a subject, whether or not I've actually ridden one, none or all three of the two bikes in question :shock:0 -
You aren't keen on people not having the same opinion as you, are you?
Absolutely possible to start off as a one man band making great carbon fibre frames.
Whether you want to spend your money on them is up to you.0 -
I think Mike is being unfair to slag off a custom frame builder because he doesn't like the appearance of one of the chap's frames (obviously built for a tall and not very flexible rider) and he is suspicious about the company's name change and lug methodology. I don't suppose Mike has actually ridden a Craddock/Filament. Matt Wilkstrom of Cycling Tips tested one and said it was very good.
The OP already has a Croix de Fer and an Infinito CV, does fitness rides, sportives and audaxes and prefers endurance rather than race bike geometry. He's had a 9K windfall to spend on something special to complement his other two bikes. Obviously, he could get a big company bike which would suit him. Perhaps a Cannondale Synapse Hi Mod Black Inc. But wouldn't that be perhaps too similar to his Infinito?
I still reckon a custom frame and build would give the OP the most enjoyment for his money. Criticising him for his 9K budget is misguided. We all have an upper limit above which we feel uncomfortable when buying a bike. Circumstances can change, as they did with me, and your comfortable spending figure can move up or down.
Just as with all the "stuff" that men like to spend money on - cars, motorcycles, watches and Rapha clothing - if you have the spare cash and ownership of something exclusive and beautiful gives you pleasure, why not go ahead and do it?0 -
Mercia Man wrote:I think Mike is being unfair to slag off a custom frame builder because he doesn't like the appearance of one of the chap's frames (obviously built for a tall and not very flexible rider) and he is suspicious about the company's name change and lug methodology. I don't suppose Mike has actually ridden a Craddock/Filament. Matt Wilkstrom of Cycling Tips tested one and said it was very good.
The OP already has a Croix de Fer and an Infinito CV, does fitness rides, sportives and audaxes and prefers endurance rather than race bike geometry. He's had a 9K windfall to spend on something special to complement his other two bikes. Obviously, he could get a big company bike which would suit him. Perhaps a Cannondale Synapse Hi Mod Black Inc. But wouldn't that be perhaps too similar to his Infinito?
I still reckon a custom frame and build would give the OP the most enjoyment for his money. Criticising him for his 9K budget is misguided. We all have an upper limit above which we feel uncomfortable when buying a bike. Circumstances can change, as they did with me, and your comfortable spending figure can move up or down.
Just as with all the "stuff" that men like to spend money on - cars, motorcycles, watches and Rapha clothing - if you have the spare cash and ownership of something exclusive and beautiful gives you pleasure, why not go ahead and do it?
My overall point is not about one frame or builder in particular. Rather it is that expensive bespoke frames don't necessarily offer any real advantage over decent factory frames other than a very expensive feel good factor. Filament just happened to be a very convenient example to illustrate this general point. After all, here is a builder who has been in the game such a short period of time that his output has to be, by definition, unproven. Who really has any idea how his frames handle or how they will hold up over time - how can they have ? And yet, people are prepared to stump up large chunks of cash simply to have a "bespoke" product.
Obliviously, it's up to the individual what he spends his money on, and to say that by opining that I don't think a 9K bike is necessary I am criticizing the OP personally, is a wholly inaccurate.
It's only an opinion, my opinion. Opinions - like a*sholes- are something that we all have....0 -
been wondering for while why there are less threads appearing on BR but I now think I know why :roll:0
