My commuting bike lasted 4 months....

Steve-XcT

The Rookie wrote:

It is nit a lease with an option to buy, if you read the government guidance there can be no guarantee at the start of the schem of an option to buy as it breaks the fundamental rule that it is a lease scheme, any guaranteed option to buy means it's tax evasion and a criminal offence.

Either way I don't see how you can use SOGA for something that hasn't been SOLD and that you are not the owner of.

Steve-XcT

Big_Paul wrote:

I'd say that hub had a severe lack of grease even from new. My Disc Trucker has had 2000 odd miles of being ridden in all weathers, been washed with a karcher, ridden through two winters worth of salt and the darn thing is still on the original chain, cassette and chainrings. I've cleaned the chain twice with a chain tool with kero in it, I've only used proper lube twice, mostly it has been a touch of ATF or spray grease. In fact the only part showing noticeable wear is the largest chainring. The wheels and the XT hubs are as smooth as the day I built the bike.

If the OP specifically asked for a workhorse and the bike was sold as such, then only lasting 4 months is a bit poor, even if it didn't have the easiest life.

Lack of grease or manufacturing fault ...

My commuter is far cheaper than the OPs and 6 or so years old and been outside, hosed and pressure washed ... The group set is Acera and whatever shimano hubs and cassette is installed continues to work.

Initialised

I had a freewheel fail after maybe six months. It was covered under warranty by Evans/Specialized, that was about 2.5 years ago and the hub and freewheel are still fine despite no servicing beyond a weekly-monthly clean and relube. I think I've gotten through two cassettes in that time, and maybe 17000 miles.

The cassette and chain are wear and tear items so will not be covered under warranty.
I like Shimano SLX HG8x Cassettes, much better at mud shedding, more durable, lighter and better built than the HG50.
An HG80/81 cassette should be ~£30 in Halfords
An equivalent chain (KMC or Shimano HG95) should cost about £20
An RX31 Rear Wheel is £116

~£170 Parts

http://www.halfords.com/advice/cycling/ ... ke-repairs
Chain fitting - £8.00
No price for fitting a Cassette but replacing a crankset is £13
Fitting of the new wheel £20

~£40 Labour

So £200 all in sounds steep if they are using lower specced parts.

As far as warranty goes then if a seal has broken then as the bike is under 6 months old it is up to the seller to prove that the seal failed as a result of your actions (abuse, misuse, neglect etc...), the photo of the rust on the cassette makes a good case for neglect, but that alone would not break the seal. Poor maintenance can destroy hubs. You say you rode in all weather conditions, this has destroyed a rear hub (and the drop outs) in a bike I had a few years ago when we had repeated flooding.

Since it's under 6 months it's worth arguing about the warranty. If they won't play ball and cover the wheel use the parts list above as a baseline for what to get in their place.

father_jack

"new chain, new cassette, new hub, new wheel to the tune of £200."

£15 chain
£20 cassette

Why a new wheel?
Can't the hub be serviced? New bearings/seals?

Also I've used my winter bike for longer that that, over multiple winters and cassette didn't rust. Cassette looks worn though.

shindig

I've just replaced the chain, cassete and wheel on my brother's bike for £100. He bought the bike from the aforementioned retail chain and was quoted £180 for the repair. Seems the freewheel is made of cheese. The replacement items are of much higher spec that those specced by the store. Wiggle and CRC have some cracking deals.

nicklong

Your notion that Evans missold you the bike seems a idle off - you said you had up to £1000 and I think they recommended a bike that would suit 9/10 people looking for a simple commuting workhorse, as you described it, for half that budget. That seems to be fair sales advice.

By the sounds of it they could have offered you a 70% discount BMC Team Machine in the sales and you would be complaining that the spokes weren't up to the commute and not fit for purpose.

I think Ted at Evans comes across very well in his emails to you - he remains professional despite responses to the contrary. Maybe I view getting my bike serviced/repaired differently, but if I wanted a job bodged I'd do it myself.

apreading

shindig wrote:

I've just replaced the chain, cassete and wheel on my brother's bike for £100. He bought the bike from the aforementioned retail chain and was quoted £180 for the repair. Seems the freewheel is made of cheese. The replacement items are of much higher spec that those specced by the store. Wiggle and CRC have some cracking deals.

I would be surprised if the hub in the rear wheel you just bought for £60-70 is any better - what makes you think it is? And why is it a surprise that you were able to source the replacement parts cheaper by shopping around bargains on the internet and doing the labour yourself?

Last time you had your car serviced, did you think "actually I could buy the oil and parts and do it much cheaper so the VW garage must be ripping me off"?

I will let you into a secret - main dealers are not necessarily the cheapest for parts and they will probably charge you for their time to fit and adjust them...!

CoalTheCat

apreading wrote:

shindig wrote:

I've just replaced the chain, cassete and wheel on my brother's bike for £100. He bought the bike from the aforementioned retail chain and was quoted £180 for the repair. Seems the freewheel is made of cheese. The replacement items are of much higher spec that those specced by the store. Wiggle and CRC have some cracking deals.

I would be surprised if the hub in the rear wheel you just bought for £60-70 is any better - what makes you think it is? And why is it a surprise that you were able to source the replacement parts cheaper by shopping around bargains on the internet and doing the labour yourself?

Last time you had your car serviced, did you think "actually I could buy the oil and parts and do it much cheaper so the VW garage must be ripping me off"?

I will let you into a secret - main dealers are not necessarily the cheapest for parts and they will probably charge you for their time to fit and adjust them...!

Maybe not, but at least the parts may be serviceable. Unlike the parts on mine. I had a joytech sealed bearing hub, that according to Evans couldn’t be serviced.

craker

apreading wrote:

Last time you had your car serviced, did you think "actually I could buy the oil and parts and do it much cheaper so the VW garage must be ripping me off"?

'Ripping me off' is subjective, however if you buy oil and parts you certainly can get a cheap service done on your car. Why pay for someone to do it when you can do it yourself?

BTW all this weekly wash and degreaser stuff is all nonsense as far as I'm concerned. I ride to work every day of the year (well, you know) and my maintenance regime is minimal. Bikes are simple, if it sqeaks, lube it. Tighten and repack the bearings if they feel a bit grotty. My drivetrain mileage seems as good as everyone else one here.

father_jack

craker wrote:

apreading wrote:

Last time you had your car serviced, did you think "actually I could buy the oil and parts and do it much cheaper so the VW garage must be ripping me off"?

'Ripping me off' is subjective, however if you buy oil and parts you certainly can get a cheap service done on your car. Why pay for someone to do it when you can do it yourself?

BTW all this weekly wash and degreaser stuff is all nonsense as far as I'm concerned. I ride to work every day of the year (well, you know) and my maintenance regime is minimal. Bikes are simple, if it sqeaks, lube it. Tighten and repack the bearings if they feel a bit grotty. My drivetrain mileage seems as good as everyone else one here.

yeah I don't wash the bikes for 2 months or so. Just keep eye on chain..

Think people have bikes to be shelf queens. Bit of grime, and they strip it down to every bolt and nut, put every part in a sonic cleaner etc.

slowbike

Last time I bought a "workhorse" it was my Specialized Tricross - one month in - Feb - having commuted <500 miles on it I checked the bearings in the front wheel as they felt a bit rough. Opened up the front hub and water poured out. Needless to say, the whole hub was rusty and the ball bearings were shot ..
I called the shop I bought it from - Hargroves - they said to bring the whole bike in - a bit of a PITA, but hey - took it in and they confirmed my thoughts - insufficient or no grease from time of manufacture, checked with Specialized then gave me a new wheel - no cost, no fuss and nothing but praise for the shop and the manner they dealt with the issue. Regularly dismantling the hub (front or back) is not on my maintenance list! Since then, I've put that bike through all manners of hell and not had a single issue.

iPete

Twice now colleagues have come to me with very long repair quotes for their run down bikes, if they were cars they'd be treated as uneconomical repairs (£200 and 300).
I completely get the costs, labour isn't free nor is running a shop and they do have to cover their backs but I've ended up repairing them both for a fraction of the price.

I've not read the last 4 pages but OP, the best thing you can do is learn to strip a bike down and re-build it. If the aforementioned quotes are anything to go by, in 5 years I've spent maybe £2-300 on tools but saved £2-3000.

wolfsbane2k

Slowbike wrote:

Last time I bought a "workhorse" it was my Specialized Tricross - one month in - Feb - having commuted <500 miles on it I checked the bearings in the front wheel as they felt a bit rough. Opened up the front hub and water poured out. Needless to say, the whole hub was rusty and the ball bearings were shot ..
I called the shop I bought it from - Hargroves - they said to bring the whole bike in - a bit of a PITA, but hey - took it in and they confirmed my thoughts - insufficient or no grease from time of manufacture, checked with Specialized then gave me a new wheel - no cost, no fuss and nothing but praise for the shop and the manner they dealt with the issue. Regularly dismantling the hub (front or back) is not on my maintenance list! Since then, I've put that bike through all manners of hell and not had a single issue.

Decathlon have been similarly excellent with my hub issue - without even a question they replaced the wheel after 6 months when I showed it to them, so it's really quite a surprise that Evans didn't stand up to the mark.
But CoaltheCat is at least riding again now.

The Rookie

Just checked, in the last year I spend £30 on parts for my commuter (chain and a new twist grip repair part - the grip was worn), and it did 1400miles, however it was regularly tidied up (of chain oil grunge and the odd sponge off and visual check) and new chain oil applied - that probably cost about £5 for the year. Parts prices so far this year - NIL.

wolfsbane2k

The Rookie wrote:

Just checked, in the last year I spend £30 on parts for my commuter (chain and a new twist grip repair part - the grip was worn), and it did 1400miles, however it was regularly tidied up (of chain oil grunge and the odd sponge off and visual check) and new chain oil applied - that probably cost about £5 for the year. Parts prices so far this year - NIL.

Those are the values (plus BC & insurance) I used to determine the total cost of running a bike for a year, compared to the £1k minimum fee for a car. Second year shouldn't be much more than that either.

father_jack

Wolfsbane2k wrote:

The Rookie wrote:

Just checked, in the last year I spend £30 on parts for my commuter (chain and a new twist grip repair part - the grip was worn), and it did 1400miles, however it was regularly tidied up (of chain oil grunge and the odd sponge off and visual check) and new chain oil applied - that probably cost about £5 for the year. Parts prices so far this year - NIL.

Those are the values (plus BC & insurance) I used to determine the total cost of running a bike for a year, compared to the £1k minimum fee for a car. Second year shouldn't be much more than that either.

Do you factor in the extra cost of food?

You're burning more calories cycling.

If you just sat around doing nothing, you won't be burning as many calories and won't need to eat as much food.

surrey_commuter

Father Jack wrote:

Wolfsbane2k wrote:

The Rookie wrote:

Just checked, in the last year I spend £30 on parts for my commuter (chain and a new twist grip repair part - the grip was worn), and it did 1400miles, however it was regularly tidied up (of chain oil grunge and the odd sponge off and visual check) and new chain oil applied - that probably cost about £5 for the year. Parts prices so far this year - NIL.

Those are the values (plus BC & insurance) I used to determine the total cost of running a bike for a year, compared to the £1k minimum fee for a car. Second year shouldn't be much more than that either.

Do you factor in the extra cost of food?

You're burning more calories cycling.

If you just sat around doing nothing, you won't be burning as many calories and won't need to eat as much food.

Car costs include devaluation, petrol, insurance and Mot

wolfsbane2k

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Father Jack wrote:

Wolfsbane2k wrote:

The Rookie wrote:

Just checked, in the last year I spend £30 on parts for my commuter (chain and a new twist grip repair part - the grip was worn), and it did 1400miles, however it was regularly tidied up (of chain oil grunge and the odd sponge off and visual check) and new chain oil applied - that probably cost about £5 for the year. Parts prices so far this year - NIL.

Those are the values (plus BC & insurance) I used to determine the total cost of running a bike for a year, compared to the £1k minimum fee for a car. Second year shouldn't be much more than that either.

Do you factor in the extra cost of food?

You're burning more calories cycling.

If you just sat around doing nothing, you won't be burning as many calories and won't need to eat as much food.

Car costs include devaluation, petrol, insurance and Mot

Don't forget road tax, sorry, ved.
Petrol I equate, in rough terms to extra food but reduced per mile.

apreading

Bikes devalue too, and while its not mandatory, I would recommend insurance - both against theft and third party and legal cover.

slowbike

I looked at insurance for my bikes - tbh, having received a quote in the hundreds id rather put that aside and use to replace as and when needed.
3rd party and legal cover are a different matter - I run BC membership primarily for that.

Steve-XcT

iPete wrote:

Twice now colleagues have come to me with very long repair quotes for their run down bikes, if they were cars they'd be treated as uneconomical repairs (£200 and 300).
I completely get the costs, labour isn't free nor is running a shop and they do have to cover their backs but I've ended up repairing them both for a fraction of the price.

I've not read the last 4 pages but OP, the best thing you can do is learn to strip a bike down and re-build it. If the aforementioned quotes are anything to go by, in 5 years I've spent maybe £2-300 on tools but saved £2-3000.

Sticking a cassette on a built wheel and sticking chain on is hardly £100 in labour though ...
Indeed when I had my kids bike (from my local Evans) and wanted a new freewheel... I popped in to try and buy one.
They didn't stock the specific mega-range I wanted but offered to fit it for FREE and check the chain length anyway if I bought one elsewhere..

Steve-XcT

Initialised wrote:

I had a freewheel fail after maybe six months. It was covered under warranty by Evans/Specialized, that was about 2.5 years ago and the hub and freewheel are still fine despite no servicing beyond a weekly-monthly clean and relube. I think I've gotten through two cassettes in that time, and maybe 17000 miles.

The cassette and chain are wear and tear items so will not be covered under warranty.
I like Shimano SLX HG8x Cassettes, much better at mud shedding, more durable, lighter and better built than the HG50.
An HG80/81 cassette should be ~£30 in Halfords
An equivalent chain (KMC or Shimano HG95) should cost about £20
An RX31 Rear Wheel is £116

~£170 Parts

http://www.halfords.com/advice/cycling/ ... ke-repairs
Chain fitting - £8.00
No price for fitting a Cassette but replacing a crankset is £13
Fitting of the new wheel £20

~£40 Labour

So £200 all in sounds steep if they are using lower specced parts.

As far as warranty goes then if a seal has broken then as the bike is under 6 months old it is up to the seller to prove that the seal failed as a result of your actions (abuse, misuse, neglect etc...), the photo of the rust on the cassette makes a good case for neglect, but that alone would not break the seal. Poor maintenance can destroy hubs. You say you rode in all weather conditions, this has destroyed a rear hub (and the drop outs) in a bike I had a few years ago when we had repeated flooding.

Since it's under 6 months it's worth arguing about the warranty. If they won't play ball and cover the wheel use the parts list above as a baseline for what to get in their place.

Halfords pricelist Really makes little sense ....or at least seems to be in the exact reverse order.
Fitting a new wheel ?? (Even bolt on can't be more than 2 mins and can't really go wrong... and surely anyone who repairs a puncture can do this?) Unless that includes removing a freewheel from the old wheel? (Which can be a pain)

Crankset.. well needs a £5 tool... again takes a couple of minutes (I pull the driveside crank off my kids bike every time we switch from road to offroad chainrings as the 30T is too small to get off otherwise)

Chain fitting.... easy to screw up.... (compared to above and presuming you don't have the old chain to copy the length) and fairly fiddly with a Shimano chain. Almost worth £6....

Anyway.that said.back to this specific Evans. other than getting the chain length correct (which they have) the entire job shouldn't take more than 5 mins adding to a pre built wheel.... ???

Equally I'm confounded as to how a hub could be wrecked that quickly unless it was damaged or lacked grease at manufacture. Or how a half decent cassette rusts that quickly... unless its a really crap cassette.

apreading

For crankset, they probably factor in re-indexing the gears and maybe even adjusting the hight of the front derailleur. It also takes time just to book a bike in and out, take payment even to put it out the back in storage and bring it back in and put it in the workstand, then take it back out the back unti you come to collect it etc. even if its a 5 minute job it probably takes 20-30 mins all told.

If replacing a front wheel is £20 thats a bit harder to justify but for a rear, swapping cassettes over, swapping your old tyres over and re-indexing at the back is maybe not so unreasonable.

Anyway, why should they be forced to work at cost price and make no profit - they are not a charity! Its about what people are prepared to pay.

Steve-XcT

apreading wrote:

For crankset, they probably factor in re-indexing the gears and maybe even adjusting the hight of the front derailleur. It also takes time just to book a bike in and out, take payment even to put it out the back in storage and bring it back in and put it in the workstand, then take it back out the back unti you come to collect it etc. even if its a 5 minute job it probably takes 20-30 mins all told.

If replacing a front wheel is £20 thats a bit harder to justify but for a rear, swapping cassettes over, swapping your old tyres over and re-indexing at the back is maybe not so unreasonable.

Anyway, why should they be forced to work at cost price and make no profit - they are not a charity! Its about what people are prepared to pay.

Oh, I'm not against them making a profit.... the price list just seems inverted to the actual time/skills/tools required!

I can't help thinking though that the 20-30 minutes of admin for fitting a wheel you bought with them wouldn't be better by adding a fiver option to the wheel?

andyrr

I think that unfortunately the more visible corrosion on the chain etc would lead anyone to think that the bike just hasn't been that well cared for - chain maintenance is pretty straightforward but it does need to be regular otherwise even just 1 wet outing can result in a nasty, rusty and stiff chain. Not terminal but certainly reduces the life of it if it isn't addressed before its next use.
That then sets up the shop to claim that other issues are linked to lack of care. The hubs really should last for a few '000 miles unless they are cheap crappy ones or the seal, as already mentioned, has been compromised.
If you've been over generous with the use of WD-40 or similar and it has got past the seal , or used a pressure washer enthusiastically then that would explain it otherwise the hub should not look like that this early in it's life.

CoalTheCat

Apart from a new back wheel with free hub, everything else that Evans told me I needed replacing is doing just fine and has done another 1000 miles.

The Rookie

So you did about 500 miles in the first 5 months and 500 a month in the next two.....call me cynical but......

CoalTheCat

The Rookie wrote:

So you did about 500 miles in the first 5 months and 500 a month in the next two.....call me cynical but......

Got the bike at the end of October, broke at the beginning of March. You know those dark winter months???

And from March (you know the warmer/lighter months?) to now I have been extending my commute home and doing more at the weekend, you know, enjoying a sport I am just getting in to…?

Can all be backed up with MapMyRide and Strava (which I migrated to at the start of April) with which I have religiously recorded every single mile.

***Personal attack removed by Moderator***

The Rookie

You must admit it looks 'unusual'? Especially with an 11 mile round trip commute - Although I see you still have that anger management issue that got you 'kicked out' by Evans.....temper temper!

But why not share your Strava account so we can see it if you like.

Happy to share mine
https://www.strava.com/athletes/1439085
Same rate of commute by bike in winter as summer.

CoalTheCat

The Rookie wrote:

You must admit it looks 'unusual'? Especially with an 11 mile round trip commute - Although I see you still have that anger management issue that got you 'kicked out' by Evans.....temper temper!

But why not share your Strava account so we can see it if you like.

Happy to share mine
https://www.strava.com/athletes/1439085
Same rate of commute by bike in winter as summer.

If I was in a pub I wouldn’t entertain a conversation with someone like you, I don’t see an internet forum as being any different…

I’m not sharing, because I don’t feel the need to and have nothing I feel I need to prove to you.

I was warned about snot noses like you when I started cycling…

Be more careful with your digital vapour trail man and get back to making your crappy cars...