Compact Crank vs Semi-Compact
Comments
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Fenix wrote:If you look at beginners they are usually pedalling about 60rpm. If anything they learn to spin faster as they get better. 40rpm would be very much at the lower end of the spectrum but it's your knees....
As to racing a 10 with a 53 11 - that's no problem.
Unless that's your lowest gear. You're not going to be pushing that on a 10.
Bit concerned I might be undergeared with a 53/11 on my next 10 - its a very fast course, particularly if you get a tailwind on the homeward leg. Will just have to give it a go though, not quite ready to invest in a bigger chainring yet.0 -
Fenix wrote:If you look at beginners they are usually pedalling about 60rpm. If anything they learn to spin faster as they get better. 40rpm would be very much at the lower end of the spectrum but it's your knees....
As to racing a 10 with a 53 11 - that's no problem.
Unless that's your lowest gear. You're not going to be pushing that on a 10.
Thought that sprockets smaller than 14t start to drop off in efficiency. There is discusison about that in Obree's book where he reccommends using the largest chainring possible. Also Wiggin's choice of 58x14, no conincidence... 50x12 is very close to the same ratio. Hmm. I also remember the same from an article with analysis of derailier gears vs hub gear efficiency.
Tony Martin running a 56(?) or 58t ring is to have a better chainline and a really big gear for down hill. Even he's not riding 58x12 on the flat.0 -
Alex99 wrote:Fenix wrote:If you look at beginners they are usually pedalling about 60rpm. If anything they learn to spin faster as they get better. 40rpm would be very much at the lower end of the spectrum but it's your knees....
As to racing a 10 with a 53 11 - that's no problem.
Unless that's your lowest gear. You're not going to be pushing that on a 10.
Thought that sprockets smaller than 14t start to drop off in efficiency. There is discusison about that in Obree's book where he reccommends using the largest chainring possible. Also Wiggin's choice of 58x14, no conincidence... 50x12 is very close to the same ratio. Hmm. I also remember the same from an article with analysis of derailier gears vs hub gear efficiency.
Tony Martin running a 56(?) or 58t ring is to have a better chainline and a really big gear for down hill. Even he's not riding 58x12 on the flat.
All makes sense.0 -
Is the place to ask if I could fit 52 X 36 to my 10 speed ultegra compact 50x 34 :?:0
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^
I've enjoyed these 8 pages in the Beginners subforum. 0 -
Alex99 wrote:Fenix wrote:If you look at beginners they are usually pedalling about 60rpm. If anything they learn to spin faster as they get better. 40rpm would be very much at the lower end of the spectrum but it's your knees....
As to racing a 10 with a 53 11 - that's no problem.
Unless that's your lowest gear. You're not going to be pushing that on a 10.
Thought that sprockets smaller than 14t start to drop off in efficiency. There is discusison about that in Obree's book where he reccommends using the largest chainring possible. Also Wiggin's choice of 58x14, no conincidence... 50x12 is very close to the same ratio. Hmm. I also remember the same from an article with analysis of derailier gears vs hub gear efficiency.
Tony Martin running a 56(?) or 58t ring is to have a better chainline and a really big gear for down hill. Even he's not riding 58x12 on the flat.
In the case of Wiggo and O'Bree, I wonder what the difference in cadence is between the 58 x 14 and the 50 x 12 is. These things were probably tested and calculated to the nth degree.
When Cadel Evans won the TdF and won the TT on the penultimate day was done at an average 105 rpm on a rolling course which lasted just over an hour.
Almost 3 weeks of pedalling over huge mountains and long stages in all conditions, yet he still managed that average cadence. His legs probably weren't that strong at that point which underlines the importance of cadence and top notch CV fitness. My supposition about his ability to sustain power at that point in the race as opposed to a lower gear but high cadence surely has some merit.
After all, what are gears for - they act as a torque multiplication device.
If we as amateurs use the excuse that they are pro's and we can't learn from them, then it's BS.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
orraloon wrote:^ I've enjoyed these 8 pages in the Beginners subforum.
Yep - perhaps we can go back to the fish-based puns....
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None of this really mantas (that was my first fish-based pun on this thread)...0 -
I shall quote the great Freddy Marlins on this subject, I think it's apt. You'll have to forgive my translation, it's a bit scaly.
"Racing in my first Cat fish race, I was in a large grouper along with my chub mates, when the great shark Johnny Bass passed me, high on his perch like I was a small fry minnow as he spun his Chain Pickerel bike a Barbel on speed. 'What's he doing for f*cks hake?', I shouted to Eddy Bocaccio Who replied, 'he's on a char, trying to get to the front of the shoal'. I knew then he was on tope..."
Cont. p94.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
Webboo wrote:Is the place to ask if I could fit 52 X 36 to my 10 speed ultegra compact 50x 34 :?:
Yes as long as they are 110 BCD 5 bolt like these https://www.mantel.com/uk/ta-specialite ... GwodkvYK3g
Your cannot use the 6800 rings as they are 4 bolt.0 -
DJ58 wrote:Webboo wrote:Is the place to ask if I could fit 52 X 36 to my 10 speed ultegra compact 50x 34 :?:
Yes as long as they are 110 BCD 5 bolt like these https://www.mantel.com/uk/ta-specialite ... GwodkvYK3g
Your cannot use the 6800 rings as they are 4 bolt.
You've gone and done it, haven't you? :roll:seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
Pinno wrote:Alex99 wrote:Fenix wrote:If you look at beginners they are usually pedalling about 60rpm. If anything they learn to spin faster as they get better. 40rpm would be very much at the lower end of the spectrum but it's your knees....
As to racing a 10 with a 53 11 - that's no problem.
Unless that's your lowest gear. You're not going to be pushing that on a 10.
Thought that sprockets smaller than 14t start to drop off in efficiency. There is discusison about that in Obree's book where he reccommends using the largest chainring possible. Also Wiggin's choice of 58x14, no conincidence... 50x12 is very close to the same ratio. Hmm. I also remember the same from an article with analysis of derailier gears vs hub gear efficiency.
Tony Martin running a 56(?) or 58t ring is to have a better chainline and a really big gear for down hill. Even he's not riding 58x12 on the flat.
In the case of Wiggo and O'Bree, I wonder what the difference in cadence is between the 58 x 14 and the 50 x 12 is. These things were probably tested and calculated to the nth degree.
I work 50x12 to be 0.58% bigger gear than 58x14, so for the same speed, less than 1 RPM slower cadence. Could be noticeable for Wiggo I guess...?0 -
I'm not sure he did get his answer. Whether he has compact or a Semi will make not difference, he is being left behind on the flats because his mates are more powerful than he is. Riding more will hopefully in time allow him to get fit and strong enough to keep up.newcycle wrote:I have a currently 50/34 compact crankset, and everyone says I should buy a 52/36 semi-compact crank because I'm loosing speed on the flats compared to my friends.
Sometimes it is true, I feel I can't keep up with the crowd on the peloton because of my 50/34.
If i change to a 52/36, what difference will it make ?? on the flats ??
thank you,Bianchi Infinito CV
Bianchi Via Nirone 7 Ultegra
Brompton S Type
Carrera Vengeance Ultimate Ltd
Gary Fisher Aquila '98
Front half of a Viking Saratoga Tandem0 -
Pinno wrote:DJ58 wrote:Webboo wrote:Is the place to ask if I could fit 52 X 36 to my 10 speed ultegra compact 50x 34 :?:
Yes as long as they are 110 BCD 5 bolt like these https://www.mantel.com/uk/ta-specialite ... GwodkvYK3g
Your cannot use the 6800 rings as they are 4 bolt.
You've gone and done it, haven't you? :roll:
I thought it was a serious question, seeing his spelling of place. :oops: I'll get me coat!0 -
Imposter wrote:orraloon wrote:^ I've enjoyed these 8 pages in the Beginners subforum.
Yep - perhaps we can go back to the fish-based puns....
How about tying the bike and fish pun themes together visually..These bikes are cheap but heavy, hence not Crill at climbing...
What do you reckon, not bad or Cod do Batter ?0 -
DJ58 wrote:Pinno wrote:DJ58 wrote:Webboo wrote:Is the place to ask if I could fit 52 X 36 to my 10 speed ultegra compact 50x 34 :?:
Yes as long as they are 110 BCD 5 bolt like these https://www.mantel.com/uk/ta-specialite ... GwodkvYK3g
Your cannot use the 6800 rings as they are 4 bolt.
You've gone and done it, haven't you? :roll:
I thought it was a serious question, seeing his spelling of place. :oops: I'll get me coat!
You don't have to be brain Sturgeon to see what was occurring there.... I didn't :oops: but I don't Hake myself for that......0 -
MikeBrew wrote:Imposter wrote:orraloon wrote:^ I've enjoyed these 8 pages in the Beginners subforum.
Yep - perhaps we can go back to the fish-based puns....
How about tying the bike and fish pun themes together visually..These bikes are cheap but heavy, hence not Crill at climbing...
What do you reckon, not bad or Cod do Batter ?
Cod do batter I'm going to store that for later use. 0 -
t4tomo wrote:
I'm not sure he did get his answer. Whether he has compact or a Semi will make not difference, he is being left behind on the flats because his mates are more powerful than he is. Riding more will hopefully in time allow him to get fit and strong enough to keep up.newcycle wrote:I have a currently 50/34 compact crankset, and everyone says I should buy a 52/36 semi-compact crank because I'm loosing speed on the flats compared to my friends.
Sometimes it is true, I feel I can't keep up with the crowd on the peloton because of my 50/34.
If i change to a 52/36, what difference will it make ?? on the flats ??
thank you,
Indeed. Good luck to him/her. There has been some funny stuff come out on this topic.0 -
and took up fishing.Alex99 wrote:t4tomo wrote:
I'm not sure he did get his answer. Whether he has compact or a Semi will make not difference, he is being left behind on the flats because his mates are more powerful than he is. Riding more will hopefully in time allow him to get fit and strong enough to keep up.newcycle wrote:I have a currently 50/34 compact crankset, and everyone says I should buy a 52/36 semi-compact crank because I'm loosing speed on the flats compared to my friends.
Sometimes it is true, I feel I can't keep up with the crowd on the peloton because of my 50/34.
If i change to a 52/36, what difference will it make ?? on the flats ??
thank you,
OK, maybe he just gave up.0 -
^ +1
I doubt there is another thread that has been so full of cranks as this one.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
Webboo wrote:
and took up fishing.Alex99 wrote:t4tomo wrote:
I'm not sure he did get his answer. Whether he has compact or a Semi will make not difference, he is being left behind on the flats because his mates are more powerful than he is. Riding more will hopefully in time allow him to get fit and strong enough to keep up.newcycle wrote:I have a currently 50/34 compact crankset, and everyone says I should buy a 52/36 semi-compact crank because I'm loosing speed on the flats compared to my friends.
Sometimes it is true, I feel I can't keep up with the crowd on the peloton because of my 50/34.
If i change to a 52/36, what difference will it make ?? on the flats ??
thank you,
OK, maybe he just gave up.
You think he's been left reeling then?0 -
Is it my imagination or are some people on this topic thinking that they must buy a new crankset in order to get this so-called semi compact gearing? As opposed to simply buying new rings?0
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Is it my imagination or are some people on this topic thinking that they must buy a new crankset in order to get this so-called semi compact gearing? As opposed to simply buying new rings?0
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Alex99 wrote:Fenix wrote:If you look at beginners they are usually pedalling about 60rpm. If anything they learn to spin faster as they get better. 40rpm would be very much at the lower end of the spectrum but it's your knees....
As to racing a 10 with a 53 11 - that's no problem.
Unless that's your lowest gear. You're not going to be pushing that on a 10.
Thought that sprockets smaller than 14t start to drop off in efficiency. There is discusison about that in Obree's book where he reccommends using the largest chainring possible. Also Wiggin's choice of 58x14, no conincidence... 50x12 is very close to the same ratio. Hmm. I also remember the same from an article with analysis of derailier gears vs hub gear efficiency.
Tony Martin running a 56(?) or 58t ring is to have a better chainline and a really big gear for down hill. Even he's not riding 58x12 on the flat.
All very well for pros like Martin and Wiggins - but this is the beginners forum ? Anyone thinking they can push pro gears is mistaken.
And what about jockey wheels ? They're 11 teeth aren't they ? If we're worried about smaller sprockets we should be oversizing those too ?0 -
dennisn wrote:Is it my imagination or are some people on this topic thinking that they must buy a new crankset in order to get this so-called semi compact gearing? As opposed to simply buying new rings?
What?! Don't go spoiling 9 pages of factual information, common sense and reason with your silly ideas.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
dennisn wrote:Is it my imagination or are some people on this topic thinking that they must buy a new crankset in order to get this so-called semi compact gearing? As opposed to simply buying new rings?
Some might be wrongly thinking it. Some, like me, would have to get new cranks though. As posted previously, no 36t chainring onto a 130 BCD crank.0
