Compact Crank vs Semi-Compact
Comments
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meanredspider wrote:I like having an 11 on my compact set up - lots of long hills in the Highlands and I'm not a racing snake so I love powering down the hills as fast as I can go. Do I use it "all the time"? No - but I'd use it a lot on my commute - I'd use a 28 a lot less.
Here again we have someone claiming to use a 50-11 "...a lot...". If you use this gear going down hill I'm not surprised, but down hill time is a small fraction of time as opposed to uphill and on the flats. Many people like to thrash it to the max going down but it's not a speed you can keep up or a gear you can use with any regularity on the flats or uphill. An 11 tooth, to me, just sits out there and mocks you.0 -
meanredspider wrote:I don't think your average person in the street, when seeing a skinny guy cycle down the bypass in a pointy hat, all-in-one skin-tight romper suit and socks on the outside of his shoes, is going to look at the rear cassette and say "that bike would look better with an 11 rather than a 12 on the back"?
You're all, of course, welcome to your opinions on the importance of bike aesthetics over performance but I can't raise a semi over the harmony created by one cassette over another...
I certainly did not say aesthetics were more important than performance.
My 12- 23 or the 11-23 I wish I had got are pretty performance related as well as looking good anyway ;-)
All this talk of semi's and men in pointy hats makes me think it's not just the average man in the street that is weirdly opinionated lol0 -
My brake disk is a lot bigger than my 32 tooth sprocket...0
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It's all in the eye of the beholder. Personally I think a lot of TT bikes are not great looking bikes anyway, whether or not they have a compact chainset.0
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I ran 50/34 with an 11-32 on the back for a while. I found the large cassette useful in the big ring, as it meant I could stay in the big ring longer without silly amounts of cross chaining. The four big cogs on the back where 32.28.25.22... One 1.6 mile hill here near me could thus be completed in the big ring(albeit out of the saddle in some parts), where previously it needed a perfectly timed simultaneous use of front a rear shifters to avoid loss of momentum and silly, temporary spin out in the little ring from a less than perfectly timed change... My best ever time up said hill(after very many attempts) was in the big ring with this large cassette on the back..
For me the big drawback of 50/34 with a close ratio cassette is the daft amounts of over spin you can get when dropping into the 34 at any speed at all...... In this respect, a 36 inner is much more useable , though it could leave some folk in trouble on the Uber steep stuff.0 -
Here again we have someone claiming to know more about what I do, than I do. I used it on the flat for quite a few of the 80 miles today.dennisn wrote:meanredspider wrote:I like having an 11 on my compact set up - lots of long hills in the Highlands and I'm not a racing snake so I love powering down the hills as fast as I can go. Do I use it "all the time"? No - but I'd use it a lot on my commute - I'd use a 28 a lot less.
Here again we have someone claiming to use a 50-11 "...a lot...". If you use this gear going down hill I'm not surprised, but down hill time is a small fraction of time as opposed to uphill and on the flats. Many people like to thrash it to the max going down but it's not a speed you can keep up or a gear you can use with any regularity on the flats or uphill. An 11 tooth, to me, just sits out there and mocks you.
We know your game. It is tedious.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
PBlakeney wrote:I used it on the flat for quite a few of the 80 miles today.
Yes, sure was windy in places today wasn't it... 8) I would have gone for 12-32 had I known it was available at the time I bought the 11-32. Pedaling downhill in a big gear is extremely costly in terms of energy per extra mph at anything over 25mph, due to overcoming air resistance. Better off getting into a nice tuck and saving those legs and lungs for the next flat or climb ...0 -
If people do not use 50-11, then people do not use a 12 tooth sprocket with bigger inner chanrings I guess?
They need to make 13-28 cassettes and stop wasting all the earths resources on casting those tiny sprockets
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So..... what about 50-13 ? 48-13? 46-13?... Of course there is also the fact that,on the whole, 53/39 are used by quite fit folk -pros for instance- which slightly defeats the "logic" of your reasoning also, as well as nullifying the sarcastic intent ... :idea:0
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Modern Shimano cassettes are only 11 or 12 tooth.
The logic is good enough for people not to be using 52-12 if they don't use 50-11.
The reason a lot of people use 34-28 is just because it is there.
Maybe they should try applying the same principles to the 50-11 combination if they have it 0 -
Clearly logic is not your strong point, if you think that a given rider who can use/needs a 34-28 can necessarily turn a 50-11 to his advantage.0
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MikeBrew wrote:Clearly logic is not your strong point, if you think that a given rider who can use/needs a 34-28 can necessarily turn a 50-11 to his advantage.
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
MikeBrew wrote:Clearly logic is not your strong point, if you think that a given rider who can use/needs a 34-28 can necessarily turn a 50-11 to his advantage.
Reading and understanding words seems to be your weak point.
I did not say they needed the 28, it was quite the opposite :roll:0 -
Carbonator wrote:1/Modern Shimano cassettes are only 11 or 12 tooth.
2/The logic is good enough for people not to be using 52-12 if they don't use 50-11.
3/The reason a lot of people use 34-28 is just because it is there.
Maybe they should try applying the same principles to the 50-11 combination if they have it
1/ You seem to have already forgotten your own, albeit sarcastic, suggestion that 13T should be the smallest cog available.
2/ Your reasoning here is SO flawed that I don't even know where to start - So I won't as life is too short, other than to say Janet and John, or indeed Tom,dick and Harry might each require different gears...
3/Clearly logic is not your strong point, if you think that a given rider who can use/needs a 34-28 can necessarily turn a 50-11 to his advantage...
With regards 34/28 What I actually said was can use/needs... which pretty much means either can use OR needs (for Janet and John. level readers)0 -
meanredspider wrote:I don't think your average person in the street, when seeing a skinny guy cycle down the bypass in a pointy hat, all-in-one skin-tight romper suit and socks on the outside of his shoes, is going to look at the rear cassette and say "that bike would look better with an 11 rather than a 12 on the back"?
I don't know, I was out on my TT bike last summer in much the manner you describe above, and a small child I rode past applauded me. Highest gear on that bike only 54x12.
Anyway, the correct gearing to have is 8 speed straight through, so 12-19 or 11-18. Campag, obviously. That or go fixed.0 -
PBlakeney wrote:MikeBrew wrote:Clearly logic is not your strong point, if you think that a given rider who can use/needs a 34-28 can necessarily turn a 50-11 to his advantage.
And wasting energy pedaling hard down a hill, when you could go as fast without pedaling, is to a riders advantage because ? Who the in their right mind would pedal down the minus15/25 % hill that you show anyway, pretty pointless.0 -
MikeBrew wrote:PBlakeney wrote:MikeBrew wrote:Clearly logic is not your strong point, if you think that a given rider who can use/needs a 34-28 can necessarily turn a 50-11 to his advantage.
And wasting energy pedaling hard down a hill, when you could go as fast without pedaling, is to a riders advantage because ?
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MikeBrew wrote:Carbonator wrote:With regards 34/28 What I actually said was can use/needs... which pretty much means either can use OR needs (for Janet and John. level readers)
But anyone 'can' use it, so that just leaves 'needs'.0 -
I may want to do some miles before the climb. I may want to do those miles quickly (50x11). I may also want to be able to do the climb without killing myself (34x27, 28, or even 29 :shock: ). I can then enjoy freewheeling the descent.MikeBrew wrote:And wasting energy pedaling hard down a hill, when you could go as fast without pedaling, is to a riders advantage because ? Who the in their right mind would pedal down the minus15/25 % hill that you show anyway, pretty pointless.
But that is just me.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
If tackling a hill as steep as Jenkin Road I think most cyclists would or should use 34/28 if they had it on the bike. Not just because it was there, but because it is the most efficient way of pedalling up a very steep hill rather than grind up in a bigger gear just because they can.
I recently changed my cassette from 11-28 to 12-30 on my good bike, and I would definitely need my lowest gear on hills like that.0 -
Carbonator wrote:MikeBrew wrote:Carbonator wrote:With regards 34/28 What I actually said was can use/needs... which pretty much means either can use OR needs (for Janet and John. level readers)
But anyone 'can' use it, so that just leaves 'needs'.
Well clearly it doesn't just leave "needs" as, as you yourself made the point that some people use it "just because it's there" ie they can but don't need to. Others "can" and "need to", others still "can't" as it's not low enough for them on steep hills. Quibbling over semantics aside, I see you attended the "what suits my POV" school of logic, and graduated with honours no doubt. Fluent gibberish speaker too, quite the scholar 0 -
PBlakeney wrote:
I may want to do some miles before the climb. I may want to do those miles quickly (50x11). I may also want to be able to do the climb without killing myself (34x27, 28, or even 29 :shock: ). I can then enjoy freewheeling the descent.MikeBrew wrote:And wasting energy pedaling hard down a hill, when you could go as fast without pedaling, is to a riders advantage because ? Who the in their right mind would pedal down the minus15/25 % hill that you show anyway, pretty pointless.
But that is just me.
How many miles would you do, before the climb, in this 50-11? 10 or 20? At what cadence 80-90 ?0 -
MikeBrew wrote:Carbonator wrote:MikeBrew wrote:Carbonator wrote:With regards 34/28 What I actually said was can use/needs... which pretty much means either can use OR needs (for Janet and John. level readers)
But anyone 'can' use it, so that just leaves 'needs'.
Well clearly it doesn't just leave "needs" as, as you yourself made the point that some people use it "just because it's there" ie they can but don't need to. Others "can" and "need to", others still "can't" as it's not low enough for them on steep hills. Quibbling over semantics aside, I see you attended the "what suits my POV" school of logic, and graduated with honours no doubt. Fluent gibberish speaker too, quite the scholar
I have already said that gearing is personal, and people should do what they need to.
Whats left from 28? 32? Smaller chainring?
Personally I would say consider not going up steep hills, or maybe even not riding a road bike in the first place!
Sorry if that sounds snobby, but ultimately its going in that direction if 34-28 is genuinely not low enough for someone.
I am certainly not suggesting people do that, and take no pleasure from it if they had to.
I try to leave the rudeness and anger to people like you who seem offended by anything remotely sporty........in a sports product
Its so funny that people have the gaul to analyze (as in the post above) peoples rides because they have and use an 11 tooth sprocket instead of a 12 on a compact chainring, but god help you if you mention huge sprockets or avoiding steep hills.
I am guessing (although its no biggy if I am wrong) that I am fitter, faster and have better bike/s than you.
You may or may not have more educational qualifications than me....................but this is a cycling forum
As its the beginners section, I am off, but perhaps you should stay 0 -
Carbonator wrote:
I have already said that gearing is personal, and people should do what they need to.
I agree.
I think some of the comments on here have been downright ridiculous.
As i mentioned in a previous post, in my opinion the OP would benefit more from a change in a cassette than a chainset.
BUT for people to assume that a 52/36 is too big for most riders, and numerous posts seemingly suggesting that compacts are the must and there is no point of an 11 sprocket, well those people are merely reflecting their own cycling ability imo.
FWIW i have a compact on my training bike but my best bike did have (and the new one will have) a semi compact on the front. Both bikes also have an 11-25 cassette. When the compact is worn on my training bike i will change it for a semi compact because I find that this range of gearing suits my needs (despite living in mid wales where there is a fair amount of hills).
People need to accept that everyone is different. No one, from what i have read, has been critical of the compact. But somehow a few have interpreted this thread as an attack on the compact :?
Just get on your bikes fellas and ride whatever it is fitted with :roll:0 -
Carbonator wrote:MikeBrew wrote:Carbonator wrote:MikeBrew wrote:Carbonator wrote:With regards 34/28 What I actually said was can use/needs... which pretty much means either can use OR needs (for Janet and John. level readers)
But anyone 'can' use it, so that just leaves 'needs'.
Well clearly it doesn't just leave "needs" as, as you yourself made the point that some people use it "just because it's there" ie they can but don't need to. Others "can" and "need to", others still "can't" as it's not low enough for them on steep hills. Quibbling over semantics aside, I see you attended the "what suits my POV" school of logic, and graduated with honours no doubt. Fluent gibberish speaker too, quite the scholar
I have already said that gearing is personal, and people should do what they need to.
1/Whats left from 28? 32? Smaller chainring?
Personally I would say consider not going up steep hills, or maybe even not riding a road bike in the first place!
Sorry if that sounds snobby, but ultimately its going in that direction if 34-28 is genuinely not low enough for someone.
I am certainly not suggesting people do that, and take no pleasure from it if they had to.
I try to leave the rudeness and anger to people like you who seem offended by anything remotely sporty........in a sports product
Its so funny that people have the gaul to analyze (as in the post above) peoples rides because they have and use an 11 tooth sprocket instead of a 12 on a compact chainring, but god help you if you mention huge sprockets or avoiding steep hills.
I am guessing (although its no biggy if I am wrong) that I am fitter, faster and have better bike/s than you.
You may or may not have more educational qualifications than me....................but this is a cycling forum
As its the beginners section, I am off, but perhaps you should stay
Well you don't disappoint, you have now rolled out the "My dad's bigger than your dad" (Janet and John level readers please read : "I think (despite thinking not being my forte) that I'm fitter, faster and have better bikes than you") argument that you were always headed for. For goodness sake grow up Timothy, even if you were correct SO WHAT ? :roll: . Still, at least you've FINALLY twigged that your comments are out of place in the ROAD BEGINNERS forum. A forum where more experienced folk are supposed to help BEGINNERS. As for the anger and rudeness , I think you're mistaking mild exasperation and a little wry humour for anger, and seem to consider someone simply pointing out your faulty reasoning to be rude.
I think your suggestion that you stay away from the beginners forum to be a good one. If you have no intention or ability to bear in mind that people asking for help here ARE BEGINNERS, and that rather than puerile willy waving about yourself(despite that apparently being your favourite/specialist subject), the idea is that you cast your mind back to when you started cycling and offer advice appropriate to a BEGINNER.
Unlike you, I have no crystal ball and so would make no wild blind guesses about the riding ability of someome I've never even seen, and know nothing whatsoever about that might aid such asinine and utterly meaningless speculation. I can only infer that you view such facile one-upmanship as a "victory" in some way... The mind truly boggles at how though.
I know of very few BEGINNERS or even intermediate ability riders who have any real use for an 11T rear sprocket in conjuction with a 50T (or above) front . The evidence of this thread alone though would seem to suggest that there are a few insecure willy wavers out there that do, or at least claim to have such a use. Exactly what that "fact" has to do with a question asked by a BEGINNER on a BEGINNERS forum, I've yet to fathom.0 -
Effing love my 36t inner ring. It's just a lot more usable than the 34 I previously ran. The 34 only ever felt usable on inclines and it actually enouranged me to use a big/big gear combo more often to avoid changing up front every time the road flattened for a spell.
The 36t can just be used whenever. I'm happy to leave it there on rolling terrain or even for the first 10-15 minutes of a ride to warm up. It has been a revelation.
What I like less is having a 52/11 combo which is rarely going to get any use. If only Shimano made a 12-30 cassette. The 30 would give me a bail out over the 28 tooth as well as ditching the 11 which will likely remain shiny clean forever.0 -
I changed my Ultegra 11-28 cassette to a 12-30. It's a 10 speed - not sure if they do them in 11 speed if that's what you have.Germcevoy wrote:Effing love my 36t inner ring. It's just a lot more usable than the 34 I previously ran. The 34 only ever felt usable on inclines and it actually enouranged me to use a big/big gear combo more often to avoid changing up front every time the road flattened for a spell.
The 36t can just be used whenever. I'm happy to leave it there on rolling terrain or even for the first 10-15 minutes of a ride to warm up. It has been a revelation.
What I like less is having a 52/11 combo which is rarely going to get any use. If only Shimano made a 12-30 cassette. The 30 would give me a bail out over the 28 tooth as well as ditching the 11 which will likely remain shiny clean forever.0 -
ForumNewbie wrote:Germcevoy wrote:Effing love my 36t inner ring. It's just a lot more usable than the 34 I previously ran. The 34 only ever felt usable on inclines and it actually enouranged me to use a big/big gear combo more often to avoid changing up front every time the road flattened for a spell.
The 36t can just be used whenever. I'm happy to leave it there on rolling terrain or even for the first 10-15 minutes of a ride to warm up. It has been a revelation.
What I like less is having a 52/11 combo which is rarely going to get any use. If only Shimano made a 12-30 cassette. The 30 would give me a bail out over the 28 tooth as well as ditching the 11 which will likely remain shiny clean forever.
I changed my Ultegra 11-28 cassette to a 12-30. It's a 10 speed - not sure if they do them in 11 speed if that's what you have.
11 speed 105. All the cassettes seem to range from 11 except the 12-25. My only gripe though and no criticism of semi-compact either.0 -
I've always thought that an 11 tooth was made because the manufacturers have the philosophy of "If you make it, they(the idiotic public - you and I) will buy it". After all, they don't want you waiting for your 12-23 to wear out. You need to buy the new 11-23 now and pitch that old, junk 12-25 now. Think of the improvement it will make.0
