Cologne, Hamburg & Stuttgart....
Comments
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If you're a refugee from outside of the EU ( currently the refugees all are) none of the EU free movement of labour applies.
Exactly. So what are they all going to do for jobs? Or is it benefits ad infinitum?
In France, it's hard enough for a Brit or a German to be able to work, so protectionist are the French. (A tree surgeon friend of mine had to sell up and go back to the UK because his heaps of UK training and qualifications weren't acceptable to the French).
So any chance of a non-EU immigrant working in France any time soon, is pie in the sky I'm afraid.[/quoteI
Err, if you are an illegal immigrant in Britain you can't claim benefits. Because then you'd have to go to a government office and declare you entered the country illegally, oh "and can I have some benefits, please"
The only way around this is to claim asylum. Or to work illegally, which is the one area the govt could intervene in (if they haven't already sacked the UKBA)Ecrasez l’infame0 -
If you're a refugee from outside of the EU ( currently the refugees all are) none of the EU free movement of labour applies.
Exactly. So what are they all going to do for jobs? Or is it benefits ad infinitum?
In France, it's hard enough for a Brit or a German to be able to work, so protectionist are the French. (A tree surgeon friend of mine had to sell up and go back to the UK because his heaps of UK training and qualifications weren't acceptable to the French).
So any chance of a non-EU immigrant working in France any time soon, is pie in the sky I'm afraid.
You miss the point. The EU has no say over what the UK does with non-EU immigrants other than rules that are fairly standard on asylum seeking (basically forcing the UK to be humane within reason which is fair enough).
Leaving the EU would change nothing!!0 -
If you're a refugee from outside of the EU ( currently the refugees all are) none of the EU free movement of labour applies.
Exactly. So what are they all going to do for jobs? Or is it benefits ad infinitum?
In France, it's hard enough for a Brit or a German to be able to work, so protectionist are the French. (A tree surgeon friend of mine had to sell up and go back to the UK because his heaps of UK training and qualifications weren't acceptable to the French).
So any chance of a non-EU immigrant working in France any time soon, is pie in the sky I'm afraid.
You miss the point. The EU has no say over what the UK does with non-EU immigrants other than rules that are fairly standard on asylum seeking (basically forcing the UK to be humane within reason which is fair enough).
Leaving the EU would change nothing!!
So presumably the immigrants coming into EU will not be able to work, legally, OR they ll have to be granted EU citizenship?
if the former, they ll be a financial burden on the EU? or the latter, be able to move around the EU at will? any country outside of EU would be able to block this movement?
Now, the EU might well try and stop a UK not in EU from barring free movement but i believe that the current EU is dying on its feet.
you say UK is not in Schengen, well it would seem that much of EU isnt in it either and that is a a crying shame and has much to do with a lack of control on migration.
i am still in close contact with many Swedish friends and they are all horrified by the numbers coming into europe, we all want to help persecuted minorities but these are the very people who are finding it hardest to get into europe, so they stay there and get killed, how many of those 1000s of Yazidis killed by IS had the opportunity to escape to Europe? where as the young, fit and wealthy (plus a criminal element) can get here and seemingly stay, regardless of their behaviour, i doubt the girls gang raped in germany will be thanking Merkel and even if they get caught, they have a better than evens chance of being able to stay.0 -
Look non Eu refugees getting asylum status isn't the same as becoming EU citizens.
They can work with an asylum visa. That isn't the same. An asylum seeker in Sweden does not receive the same free movement rights as an away citizen. The EU has no say over what a UK asylum seeker recovers except for human rights rules about treating asylum seekers humanely.
They can apply for EU citizenship sure. But that is a long process.
And anyway on the subject of benefit tourism, the gov't admits that they have looked into it and no evidence can be found that it is a factor: http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/89179800 -
Look non Eu refugees getting asylum status isn't the same as becoming EU citizens.
They can work with an asylum visa. That isn't the same. An asylum seeker in Sweden does not receive the same free movement rights as an away citizen. The EU has no say over what a UK asylum seeker recovers except for human rights rules about treating asylum seekers humanely.
They can apply for EU citizenship sure. But that is a long process.
And anyway on the subject of benefit tourism, the gov't admits that they have looked into it and no evidence can be found that it is a factor: http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/8917980
i am aware of this, however, we have no means (or the will) for mass deportation of eco migrants, nor have we, either in UK or EU got any sort of track record in doing so.
come the spring, even more refugees will be coming across the oceans and land borders into Europe, this is completely unsustainable and the vast majority of those who reach europe will get EU citizenship and therefore access to all countries in EU, but unless EU rapidly changes its policies then UK will vote to leave.
the end result will be that genuine people who richly deserve our protection wont get it, being lumped in with the likes of the people involved with the terrible crimes in Germany and else where.
i do agree that much like home grown benefit fraud etc, benefit tourism is much over hyped, unwelcome though it is.0 -
And now the Swedish police have been found out to have covered up similar incidents for two years, at an event in Stockholm.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35285086Always be yourself, unless you can be Aaron Rodgers....Then always be Aaron Rodgers.0 -
It does make you wonder what else is covered up - I still find it mind blowing (as well as sickening) that 1000 girls were sexually exploited in one South Yorkshire town. The rape statistics in Sweden are shocking but there is a question of whether that is down to the way they collect the statistics. A bit of clarity would help clear up whether this is a moral panic or whether it has some substance but we are not deemed fit to receive that kind of information.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0
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On the Rotherham case some evidence was presented that suggests a policeman was part of the ring, which certainly makes things more complicated and murky.
Generally the police rightly have a rep for being biased against monorities. That the decision to improve that position is to just not investigate or cover up instances where they are investigating crimes by minorities shows how badly the rozzers need some kind of reform.
It's a failure both ways.0 -
On the Rotherham case some evidence was presented that suggests a policeman was part of the ring, which certainly makes things more complicated and murky.
Generally the police rightly have a rep for being biased against monorities. That the decision to improve that position is to just not investigate or cover up instances where they are investigating crimes by minorities shows how badly the rozzers need some kind of reform.
It's a failure both ways.
Biased towards minorities? I would suggest that this officer's experience is more indicative of the problems facing the police regarding minorities. It was a comment posted in regard to a story in the Guardian which I can not find at the mo.
I am a white police officer in London. I work with black and asian police officers. I have seen first hand the enraged vitriol and abuse they receive from people of their own ethnic background simply because they're a black or asian man or woman working as a police officer.
Because of the area I work in, most of the people I stop and search are Asian. I have never once been accused of racism, yet I have seen Asian colleagues verbally abused, cursed, told they are a 'bad muslim' because they're 'searching a brother' (a 'drug dealer' is a more apt description) etc. I don't know how they deal with it, but they always remain professional.
These instances simply do not happen to white officers to any great degree.
Can you now understand why few BME people want to join the police? Because this is the real reason, the truth that senior police officers simply refuse to admit.
Edit This story http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jan/01/most-uk-police-forces-have-disproportionate-number-of-white-officers0 -
There is one very simple way to reduce the numbers of immigrants from outside of EU and to stop the behaviour of recent events.
Do not allow access to single males of age 16 and over! Refugee families and children only. A simple and far better humanitarian policy, both for those escaping conflict and for those that have to host.Always be yourself, unless you can be Aaron Rodgers....Then always be Aaron Rodgers.0 -
There is one very simple way to reduce the numbers of immigrants from outside of EU and to stop the behaviour of recent events.
Do not allow access to single males of age 16 and over! Refugee families and children only. A simple and far better humanitarian policy, both for those escaping conflict and for those that have to host.
No, the 14/15yo could become a Cologne molester within a few years.
the answer is harsh deportation policies, any law infringement = deportation and most importantly, there is no right to permanent residency, so once your country is deemed to be at peace, you will be returned, regardless of any right to a family life, of course they ll be exceptions but the default should be, you will be returned.
longer term, we must work with the russians to return Syria to a state it was at pre Arab spring, bring saudi to heel and work with Iran.
Potentially, UN peace keeping force sent into Libya and bring stability to this place, preferably an Arab one.0 -
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When people talk about deportation, where do they expect people to be deported to?
Ask Merkel?
If your genuine, fleeing for your life and your country is at war, rather than an economic refugee, then Europe should give refuge, if you cannot keep the law in the country of refuge than go back to Syria.
Its all very well being nice and liberal but if it was my daughter who was raped by a so called refugee who believes Western women are chattels for them to abuse, then go and back to Ruqqa.
But once your country is at peace, which even in Syria will happen, then you should return and rebuild your country.0 -
When people talk about deportation, where do they expect people to be deported to?
It's not deportation. It is repatriation.
Germany, France, UK and all of EU and USA have become so scared and unable to tackle this migrant crisis and the influx of let's face it Muslims. And all because they are haunted by the history of the 20th Century.Always be yourself, unless you can be Aaron Rodgers....Then always be Aaron Rodgers.0 -
Yeah ok but, I think fairly, sending people back to a war torn country isn't something a rich stable country should be doing.0
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Yeah ok but, I think fairly, sending people back to a war torn country isn't something a rich stable country should be doing.
Of course anyone escaping a war torn country should nt be sent back as a matter of course BUT if you take part in criminal acts, why should you be allowed to stay in this rich stable country?
serve your sentence and go back to the camps where you travelled from.0 -
Yeah ok but, I think fairly, sending people back to a war torn country isn't something a rich stable country should be doing.
Of course anyone escaping a war torn country should nt be sent back as a matter of course BUT if you take part in criminal acts, why should you be allowed to stay in this rich stable country?
serve your sentence and go back to the camps where you travelled from.
It's not that straightforward, as they need to be received.
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The comment on single men being less welcome than families has some statistical merit.
Study referenced here: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/184dbfda-b9dc-11e5-bf7e-8a339b6f2164.html
They examine instances with imbalanced male - female ratios (skewed towards many more men) and there's evidence to suggest that is a cause of higher levels of crime.
Says that it's likely not cultural (though the sex-orientated nature of the attacks is a bit greyer), but more a result of that imbalance.0 -
We have all seen the results of security failings recently in places like Brussels and Paris. I accept that failings will occur, we can't know everything about everyone all of the time.
But revisiting the disgraceful events in Germany over the New Year, I came across this.
http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/01/its- ... -shameful/
The phenomenon of men surrounding women to sexually assault them was the subject of an Egyptian film that won 1st prize at the Dubai film festival in 2010.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1764141/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/678_(film)
Why were the police caught out? Surely they must have known of the behaviour and what to expect? It even has a name,Taharrush gamea.
Are the police services across Europe so inept or do they suffer the Political Correctness that seems to afflict the Swedes? If they can't foresee this sort of behaviour, is it any wonder that they struggle to combat terrorism0 -
It's a given that noone wants to import sexual violence into the UK - the question is whether this is an isolated incident turned into a scare story or representative of a wider wave of sexual crime based on religious/cultural norms.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0
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Ballysmate wrote:We have all seen the results of security failings recently in places like Brussels and Paris. I accept that failings will occur, we can't know everything about everyone all of the time.
But revisiting the disgraceful events in Germany over the New Year, I came across this.
http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/01/its- ... -shameful/
The phenomenon of men surrounding women to sexually assault them was the subject of an Egyptian film that won 1st prize at the Dubai film festival in 2010.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1764141/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/678_(film)
Why were the police caught out? Surely they must have known of the behaviour and what to expect? It even has a name,Taharrush gamea.
Are the police services across Europe so inept or do they suffer the Political Correctness that seems to afflict the Swedes? If they can't foresee this sort of behaviour, is it any wonder that they struggle to combat terrorism
i do not see how any Police force can be expected to be able to predict crime on the busiest night of the year on a scale that is unprecedented in europe and given the cuts in community policing over here (where this sort of intel would be picked up) i doubt we d do any better either.
To me, this is crime pure and simple, nowt to do with cultural differences, once sentenced the criminals should be sent back to n. Africa et
Of course turning Sweden, (a country i ve lived in and know very well) into the the rape capitol of Europe and only 2nd behind S Africa in world rankings is another matter entirely and shows multiculturalism is a complete failure, at least as far as the extremist faction of Islam is concerned, which i guess is what your getting at?0 -
This isn't just crime, it is a cultural thing, but I agree, the perpetrators should be returned to whence they came. I do not expect any police force to predict crime levels on a particular night but this behaviour wasn't confined to one night was it? If you invite hundreds of thousands of people to settle in your country, you should at least have some idea of who you are inviting and what to expect. If you invited thousands of young British men into your country, it would be no surprise that a good few get drunk on a Saturday night and cause bother would it?
I agree that multiculturalism has been a failure insofar that people now are unable to criticise some abhorrent behaviours lest they be branded racist, as seems to have been the case in Sweden.
I have no idea if the perpetrators believe in an extreme version of Islam or not, but they come from lands where this behaviour has been problematic and could have been foreseen.0 -
Ballysmate wrote:This isn't just crime, it is a cultural thing, but I agree, the perpetrators should be returned to whence they came. I do not expect any police force to predict crime levels on a particular night but this behaviour wasn't confined to one night was it? If you invite hundreds of thousands of people to settle in your country, you should at least have some idea of who you are inviting and what to expect. If you invited thousands of young British men into your country, it would be no surprise that a good few get drunk on a Saturday night and cause bother would it?
I agree that multiculturalism has been a failure insofar that people now are unable to criticise some abhorrent behaviours lest they be branded racist, as seems to have been the case in Sweden.
I have no idea if the perpetrators believe in an extreme version of Islam or not, but they come from lands where this behaviour has been problematic and could have been foreseen.
this is where we all go wrong, by saying its cultural, we are already making excuses for it, for the Indian woman gang raped or acid thrown in the face of a woman who rejected a suitor, its not cultural at all, its criminal behaviour
IF the women in their lands accepted this sexual assault by their young men then yes cultural but they dont, its young men abusing women for a combination of power and sexual thrills and our weak authorities allow it by bleating it's Cultural0 -
Don't get me wrong.I AM NOT making excuses for it. It seems to be acceptable in their homeland and these men have no idea how to behave in western society. Yes.I agree what they do is criminal and they should be punished to the full extent of the law. If they can't behave, they shouldn't be here.
Multiculturalrists would make the excuse that it is part of their culture and should be accommodated and no-one has ever labelled me a multiculturalist.
I am saying that there is no place for their culture in Europe if this is an example.
I still maintain the the police services and politicians badly let down the people who were attacked.0 -
Ballysmate wrote:Don't get me wrong.I AM NOT making excuses for it. It seems to be acceptable in their homeland and these men have no idea how to behave in western society. Yes.I agree what they do is criminal and they should be punished to the full extent of the law. If they can't behave, they shouldn't be here.
Multiculturalrists would make the excuse that it is part of their culture and should be accommodated and no-one has ever labelled me a multiculturalist. :.
No they wouldn't.0 -
It seems Germany is now having to have trains with women only carriages near the guard van to avoid sexual attack / molestation.
I wonder how many of those women huddled in said carriage voted for Merkel and continue to back her 'free for all' immigration policy?0 -
bernithebiker wrote:It seems Germany is now having to have trains with women only carriages near the guard van to avoid sexual attack / molestation.
I wonder how many of those women huddled in said carriage voted for Merkel and continue to back her 'free for all' immigration policy?
like most politicians, their decisions dont actually affect them0 -
bernithebiker wrote:It seems Germany is now having to have trains with women only carriages near the guard van to avoid sexual attack / molestation.
I wonder how many of those women huddled in said carriage voted for Merkel and continue to back her 'free for all' immigration policy?
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 57446.html
Think that story is BS.
After all, Europeans can make sexual attacks too (and do...)....0 -
Come on Rick they are hardly likely to come out and say we've introduced women only carriages because of all the attacks by immigrants are they. If you look at what has happened in Germany and Sweden it's clear that there is a fear of increased sexual attacks because of immigrants and you don't have to be Einstein to see through that denial by the rail company.
There have been other examples if you want them - immigrants being banned from swimming pools and guides produced on how to act around women - even classes explaining that in the West women may be out alone without full body cover without it being an invitation to rape. The question is whether that fear is justified or not. When you look at things like what happened in Cambridgeshire when Libyan soldiers came over for training it's hard to conclude that it's not at least partly justified.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:bernithebiker wrote:It seems Germany is now having to have trains with women only carriages near the guard van to avoid sexual attack / molestation.
I wonder how many of those women huddled in said carriage voted for Merkel and continue to back her 'free for all' immigration policy?
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 57446.html
Think that story is BS.
After all, Europeans can make sexual attacks too (and do...)....
Just coincidence then, that the timing comes just after a huge wave of immigration and various immigrant related sexual attacks across Germany (and Europe)?0 -
bernithebiker wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:bernithebiker wrote:It seems Germany is now having to have trains with women only carriages near the guard van to avoid sexual attack / molestation.
I wonder how many of those women huddled in said carriage voted for Merkel and continue to back her 'free for all' immigration policy?
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 57446.html
Think that story is BS.
After all, Europeans can make sexual attacks too (and do...)....
Just coincidence then, that the timing comes just after a huge wave of immigration and various immigrant related sexual attacks across Germany (and Europe)?
There are a few on the forum and many in politics that try to defuse the obvious bomb of immigrant related crime and terrorism by countering it with 'everyone is capable'.
There is absolutely no getting away from the fact that this influx of muslim men see western women as fair game. And yes, it is in the culture. In most of the countries they originate from, women are treated a class below the family dog. Yet there are too many apologists that give them excuses. They are sick f***s and should be transported back to Syria, Afghanistan, Pakistan etc etc.
Just wait now for the 'Roman Catholic priests were just as bad'.Always be yourself, unless you can be Aaron Rodgers....Then always be Aaron Rodgers.0
