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The demise of Campagnolo in the world tour

kleinstrokerkleinstroker Posts: 2,130
edited January 2016 in Pro race
Nice little article on 2016 bike tech over here..

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/2016-worldtour-team-bikes-guide/

Really surprised to see that Campagnolo equipped bikes are are now ridden by only 3 world tour teams, if they're not careful they will be surpassed by Sram which only a couple of years ago would have been completely unthinkable.

With disc brakes coming will this affect Campagnolo even more in the coming years?
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  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 46,579 Lives Here
    Need to make better products for better value.


    Basically.
  • dish_dashdish_dash Posts: 4,723
    Meh... been like this for a few years now. Campag will manage the shift to disc brakes and eventually wireless.

    The more interesting question is how FSA will do once they enter the market.
  • mrushtonmrushton Posts: 5,182
    they are a now a boutique company imo. Shimano/SRAM are like Ford or GM even Audi/Mercedes. Campag are more bespoke. Fabulous heritage and lovely to use but overpriced and often not as good as the competition. Ultegra offers better value, other wheels can be had cheaper even handbuilts. If money is no object then SR with Bora or Hyperons is a lovely mix but spendy. You buy Campag now with your heart not your head
    M.Rushton
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 19,562
    which only a couple of years ago would have been completely unthinkable.

    Rather easily thinkable...

    A couple of years ago (pre-electronic shifting basically) SRAM had the most teams in the Pro Tour, Campag had by far and away the least.

    ...which was always a fun fact to drop into Road General Campag discussions.
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • dish_dashdish_dash Posts: 4,723
    So I used INRNG's list of total wins by World Tour teams in 2015:

    Shimano - 300
    Campagnolo - 104
    SRAM - 23
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 19,562
    Compare and contrast with 2012 (if you can find it, I CBA I ll be honest :oops: )
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • bigmatbigmat Posts: 5,108
    I was surprised there are still 3! Its mainly dictated by marketing budget though isn't it? The last few years introduction of technology has had an impact(i.e. SRAM suffering for lack of e-shifting) but otherwise most teams are paid to use a product (I know Sky and maybe a couple of others are exceptions). Campag don't seem to innovate much anymore, SRAM seem to be leading the way on that front right now (disc brakes, wireless, 1x etc). Still run Campag on all my road bikes but agree it is a heart rather than head decision and if I was advising anyone looking to buy a first road bike, I wouldn't necessarily recommend it.
  • dish_dashdish_dash Posts: 4,723
    Compare and contrast with 2012 (if you can find it, I CBA I ll be honest :oops: )

    Can't vouch that this is like for like data but it's as close as I could get.

    2012:
    Shimano - 222
    SRAM - 123
    Campag - 65

    Take your point but still not shabby from Campag.

    Nice tootle down memory lane that. Saxo had a shocker of a year!
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 19,562
    Oh for sure, I'm not knocking them, but they ve been second or third fiddle for a long while now. They won a big chunk of the market by getting EPS out quickly but when (if) SRAM Etap is proven it will equalize again.
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • mrushtonmrushton Posts: 5,182
    Prob have a smaller budget as well - it's expensive giving stuff away. They've stuck by Movistar a long time. Surprised someone like FSA hasn't made a bid to buy Campag but think it would be an expensive purchase. I love its looks but if I was buying again I'd be running Shimano
    M.Rushton
  • One Italian WT team and they are on Shimano98660-old-man-crying-gif-Imgur-Kihl.gif
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 46,579 Lives Here
    Winning gif.
  • So I used INRNG's list of total wins by World Tour teams in 2015:

    Shimano - 300
    Campagnolo - 104
    SRAM - 23

    So Campagnolo are doing pretty well then when you consider the amount of teams using Shimano.

    Also 2 GT's last year (Giro and TDF) and one this year (Vuelta).
  • cal_stewartcal_stewart Posts: 1,839
    Think they are doing pretty well considering the company's size compared to shimano and sram
    eating parmos since 1981

    Canyon Ultimate CF SLX Aero 09
    Cervelo P5 EPS
    www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=40044&t=13038799
  • mrushtonmrushton Posts: 5,182
    They are but they are slowly becoming v.niche. They had one attempt to get into the mtb market and bailed. They do the wheels and the gruppos v.well but they don't appear to be doing disc brakes as yet and even their caliper brakes aren't as good as Shimano imo. They don't even do a deep drop brake. Nothing wrong with being niche but they are losing ground esp. when it comes to younger users in other disciplines
    M.Rushton
  • bobmcstuffbobmcstuff Posts: 8,056
    They are but they are slowly becoming v.niche. They had one attempt to get into the mtb market and bailed. They do the wheels and the gruppos v.well but they don't appear to be doing disc brakes as yet and even their caliper brakes aren't as good as Shimano imo. They don't even do a deep drop brake. Nothing wrong with being niche but they are losing ground esp. when it comes to younger users in other disciplines

    They have a pretty big market in wheelsets, no? Between Campag and Fulcrum branded that covers quite a lot of road wheels.

    Obviously they are a lot more minor in groupsets - I think Shimano have something like 70% of the market.
  • I am looking at a Bianchi with Shimano now... unthinkable a couple of years ago.

    Still love Campy though, but its hard to find it ranged.
  • I am looking at a Bianchi with Shimano now... unthinkable a couple of years ago.

    Still love Campy though, but its hard to find it ranged.

    Unflip yourself.Pronto
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • even their caliper brakes aren't as good as Shimano imo.

    In your opinion. In my opinion a modern SR/R/Chorus caliper is a superb bit of stopping machinery.
  • I am looking at a Bianchi with Shimano now... unthinkable a couple of years ago.

    Still love Campy though, but its hard to find it ranged.

    I bought a Bianchi with Campag...wished I'd got Shimano now...
    @JaunePeril

    Winner of the Bike Radar Pro Race Wiggins Hour Prediction Competition
  • DeVlaeminckDeVlaeminck Posts: 5,581
    Need to make better products for better value.


    Basically.


    If I was buying a groupset I'd take the Campag option over Shimano or SRAM at most price points. Their real problem is as noted above, their lack of presence on new bikes. I'd bet most Shimano users haven't owned a modern Campag equipped bike they've simply stuck with what they know.
    AFC Mercia women - sign for us
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 46,579 Lives Here
    Explain the diminishing sales then.
  • mrushtonmrushton Posts: 5,182
    Given the price compared to Ultegra then they should be but for a long time they were not as good - maybe they have improved - all mine are pre skeleton 10 speed
    M.Rushton
  • dish_dashdish_dash Posts: 4,723
    Campag just costs waaaaaay more than the other two... so I can see why the manufacturers put on Shimano or SRAM to keep the off the shelf bike price within certain points.

    But honestly, if you can afford Rapha then you can afford Campag.
  • DeVlaeminckDeVlaeminck Posts: 5,581
    Explain the diminishing sales then.

    I've no idea whether their sales are diminishing but if they are I would guess it's in large part because many riders have never used it having bought their bike new and then wanting to avoid compatibility issues with wheels and stuff from then on.

    They all work and I doubt many people lost a race because they chose one over the other but I've found campag marginally better in terms of function where I've used comparable groupsets, ymmv to some extent it depends which shifters you find more comfortable and what kind of feel you prefer when shifting.
    AFC Mercia women - sign for us
  • DeVlaeminckDeVlaeminck Posts: 5,581
    Campag just costs waaaaaay more than the other two... so I can see why the manufacturers put on Shimano or SRAM to keep the off the shelf bike price within certain points.

    But honestly, if you can afford Rapha then you can afford Campag.


    Chorus is cheaper than Dura Ace and imo it's better.
    AFC Mercia women - sign for us
  • bobmcstuffbobmcstuff Posts: 8,056
    Wouldn't the majority of people compare Dura Ace with Record?

    I suppose this is a huge can of worms, but subjective usage comparisons aside I always thought Record = Dura Ace and Chorus = Ultegra. Then Super Record is a step above for people with too much money.
  • dish_dashdish_dash Posts: 4,723
    Campag just costs waaaaaay more than the other two... so I can see why the manufacturers put on Shimano or SRAM to keep the off the shelf bike price within certain points.

    But honestly, if you can afford Rapha then you can afford Campag.


    Chorus is cheaper than Dura Ace and imo it's better.

    Fair point
  • which only a couple of years ago would have been completely unthinkable.

    Rather easily thinkable...

    A couple of years ago (pre-electronic shifting basically) SRAM had the most teams in the Pro Tour, Campag had by far and away the least.

    ...which was always a fun fact to drop into Road General Campag discussions.

    That sounds like one of those things which ought not be true, but turnssout to be true.

    Just checked 2011...

    Sram - 8 teams
    Shimano - 6 teams
    Campagnolo - 4 teams
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 19,562
    Yup...2012 SRAM Red was great. Apart from some driveside crankarms, they sucked) - I have a bit of it for sale in the classifieds...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
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