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98% 0f 75% vote to strike

Frank the tankFrank the tank Posts: 6,806
edited February 2016 in The cake stop
FFS, Jeremy Hunt drag your tory @rse to the negotiating table and get this potential mess sorted out.

No one these days, let alone the medical profession (thankfully) go on strike likely. I personally would take the morals of doctors over a westminster full of MPs any day.

It is our HEALTH SERVICE not something to be messed about with.

From a tory self preservation mode, think how in 2020 how much political gain could be made by the opposition in the GE campaign that the tories presided over the first all out strike by doctors since the formation of the NHS.
Tail end Charlie

The above post may contain traces of sarcasm or/and bullsh*t.
«134567

Posts

  • penskipenski Posts: 124
    What is the significance of the 75% figure? Was that the minimum level needed but they got 98%?
  • ProssPross Posts: 25,360
    I assume 75% turnout of which 98% voted to strike which is a huge number on both counts.
  • I assume 75% turnout of which 98% voted to strike which is a huge number on both counts.
    This.
    Tail end Charlie

    The above post may contain traces of sarcasm or/and bullsh*t.
  • socratessocrates Posts: 453
    Amazing. The doctors say their main concern is the patients welfare so they go on strike. Money is the reason. They are well paid. Get your lazy censored to work and stop complaining. There are people on the minimum wage doing long hours to make ends meet. If you don't like it, get a different job.
  • orraloonorraloon Posts: 7,512
    If you don't like it, get a different job.

    What, like be a politician and become an MP? There's 650 of those fxxxers, contributing exactly what to society for their 11% pay rise, plus the notorious fill-yer-boots expenses? Don't see much in the way of 'increased productivity is essential' down Westminster-on-Thames.

    Choice between a medic and a politician? Not too difficult that one is it?
  • ballysmateballysmate Posts: 14,748
    Amazing. The doctors say their main concern is the patients welfare so they go on strike. Money is the reason. They are well paid. Get your lazy ars* to work and stop complaining. There are people on the minimum wage doing long hours to make ends meet. If you don't like it, get a different job.

    Of course it's about the money.
    As someone is fond of reminding us we are the 5th richest country in the world. You can get anything 24/7. That is everything except sick. You can't get sick at the weekend.
  • mamba80mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    Amazing. The doctors say their main concern is the patients welfare so they go on strike. Money is the reason. They are well paid. Get your lazy ars* to work and stop complaining. There are people on the minimum wage doing long hours to make ends meet. If you don't like it, get a different job.

    If only the next time you are in hospital, you d have the balls to say that to the staff treating you, no i didnt think so.
    Its about the Gov saving money and zero about patient care, anyone who falls for that is an idiot, the support staff, some very highly trained plus additional eqiupment needed (as they be no down time for mtce) would be immense, the costs massive, junior Dr's are just one part of a patients treatment.
  • Amazing. The doctors say their main concern is the patients welfare so they go on strike. Money is the reason. They are well paid. Get your lazy ars* to work and stop complaining. There are people on the minimum wage doing long hours to make ends meet. If you don't like it, get a different job.

    How much do you think we get paid? Seriously I'd like to know an opinion of someone I assume is doesn't work within medicine.

    There are many issues including pay, but also extended hours, a ridiculous shift pattern, patient safety, doctor safety and the start of the privatisation of the NHS.

    The pay issue for me regards responsibility. On nights I am responsible for 100 patients. Several times a night I see people who are dying and I have to decide how to make them better. Each time I am discharging someone from hospital I am essentially saying they are safe to go me home and won't die.

    I had a chap come in referred as a possible pulmonary embolism. He even had symptoms suggestive and a raised blood level in concordance with the diagnosis. I was certain he had musculoskeletal chest pain. I had no way of 100% proving that without further testing which would have lead to unnecessary radiation. I sent him home but he could well of had a life threatening illness going with him.

    My point is that level of responsibility is the reason I believe we deserve a higher pay than other working long days for minimum wage. That and the 6 years of education and hard work I paid for and for which I have a debt of nearly 50 grand.

    And btw I don't think I'm above anyone. Or at least I think I don't. All jobs are important. Someone needs to make my wheels and frames. I don't know how to. But i do know how to save lives and prevent deaths. That to me seems like more responsibility than making a saddlebag.

    My 2 cents.

    NB. If you hadn't worked out by now I'm a doctor. For anyone who cares I'm at SHO level.
  • mamba80mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    edited November 2015
    ^Top post and despite some on here, the vast majority of the population do not think like Bally or Socrates

    My mum, a nurse for 40 years is due in for heart op in Decmeber, it might be cancelled because of the strike, she doesnt care as she supports you 100% and is a life long tory who thinks hunt is a fool.
  • ballysmateballysmate Posts: 14,748
    ^Top post and despite some on here, the vast majority of the population do not think like Bally or Scrotum.

    My mum, a nurse for 40 years is due in for heart op in Decmeber, it might be cancelled because of the strike, she doesnt care as she supports you 100% and is a life long tory who thinks hunt is a fool.

    Did I say anywhere that doctors are not worth their pay or not worth more. I said the strike was about money. Smiley's post didn't contradict that it was a factor.
  • finchyfinchy Posts: 6,689
    Amazing. The doctors say their main concern is the patients welfare so they go on strike. Money is the reason. They are well paid. Get your lazy ars* to work and stop complaining. There are people on the minimum wage doing long hours to make ends meet. If you don't like it, get a different job.

    Of course it's about the money.
    As someone is fond of reminding us we are the 5th richest country in the world. You can get anything 24/7. That is everything except sick. You can't get sick at the weekend.

    That's weird, because just a few weekends ago, I could have sworn that my little boy was sick at the weekend and I got to see a doctor on a Sunday. I must have imagined it.
  • Amazing. The doctors say their main concern is the patients welfare so they go on strike. Money is the reason. They are well paid. Get your lazy ars* to work and stop complaining. There are people on the minimum wage doing long hours to make ends meet. If you don't like it, get a different job.

    If only the next time you are in hospital, you d have the balls to say that to the staff treating you, no i didnt think so
    If they were in hospital to say it to then they're not striking.

    Whilst I have problems with the attitudes and behaviour of doctors I've had occasion to see I do not see.how you can.equate their job.to minimum wage jobs just because of the long hours. Responsibility and consequences have a lot to.do with it. They earn what I assume is a lot for newly qualified professional roles but possibly less than a barrister that's newly qualified. The only issue I have is striking. It is my view certain occupations should not have the legal right to strike but at the same time their employers should have the legal duty to listen. With a very high percentage of hospital treatment coming from junior doctors I struggle to understand how if 98% of 75% of junior doctors went on strike patients would not be at risk. I think they account for the vast majority of hospital treatment so what will happen if there's a high turnout on the pickets?

    P.S. I went to uni with trainee doctors among my friends they did long hours despite only in their first year. However my engineering degree had longer hours and IIRC 29 2 to 3 hour exams at the end of it. Then the civil engineers also had a huge workload too. After a 3 or 4 year degree they too end up with 3 or 4 year post degree training to become a qualified engineer.

    Doctors start on about £23k straight out of uni but they're not fully qualified then. After the first of a 2 year training contract they become fully qualified and typically earn about £28k. This soon increases to £30-47k when in specialist training. They get more for working anti social hours, outside mon-Friday 7am to 7pm. According to NHS employers organization average junior doctor pay is £37k.

    Compare with civil engineers who start at £23k, after 2 years typically £28k and up to 5 years experience (likely chartered by then) it's £30k. Nurses start on £22k, teachers £23k, accountants £28k, it or telecommunications £28.5k, banking £31k and law firm £37k. All typical starting graduate salaries.

    Bevan bought the backing of the consultants by, as he put it, "stuffing their mouths with gold." I suspect Hunt may have to do the same. Just as Millburn did at the end of the Blair years to get his reforms in resulting in a big s salary increase for doctors.

    Despite this I feel doctors are worth keeping on side. IMHO doctors are ok when junior doctors since they're still trying to treat patients. The further along I think they change to treating the conditions with the patient an inconvenience that comes with the illness or condition. I'm incredibly cynical about doctors and the NHS. Both are an inconvenience you have to resort to on occasion. Neither impresses me. Although they're a million miles better than dentists and NHS dentistry.
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 14,133
    It is my view certain occupations should not have the legal right to strike but at the same time their employers should have the legal duty to listen.
    The rest of your post is redundant because the employers are not listening.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 52,578 Lives Here
    Amazing. The doctors say their main concern is the patients welfare so they go on strike. Money is the reason. They are well paid. Get your lazy ars* to work and stop complaining. There are people on the minimum wage doing long hours to make ends meet. If you don't like it, get a different job.


    Bahaha. Do you actually know any doctors? Rhetorical question; if you did you wouldn't say that, since it's very far from the truth. Maybe you don't see it because you're based in Ireland.

    It's fairly simple. You keep making the NHS "do more with less" (ie more hours, less pay) and you will soon see bright people not wanting to be doctors. Why would you want to do it? Terrible hours, and increasingly the pay doesn't cover it.

    NHS spent double what they expected too on short term agency cover because of significant and serious recruitment problems.

    To put that into context, NHS went into deficit of £1.8bn this month, and the agency staff bill was £900m.

    There are so many jobs with fewer hours and better pay available to you if you're smart enough to be a doctor, so why do it?
  • VTechVTech Posts: 4,736
    Amazing. The doctors say their main concern is the patients welfare so they go on strike. Money is the reason. They are well paid. Get your lazy ars* to work and stop complaining. There are people on the minimum wage doing long hours to make ends meet. If you don't like it, get a different job.

    How much do you think we get paid? Seriously I'd like to know an opinion of someone I assume is doesn't work within medicine.

    There are many issues including pay, but also extended hours, a ridiculous shift pattern, patient safety, doctor safety and the start of the privatisation of the NHS.

    The pay issue for me regards responsibility. On nights I am responsible for 100 patients. Several times a night I see people who are dying and I have to decide how to make them better. Each time I am discharging someone from hospital I am essentially saying they are safe to go me home and won't die.

    I had a chap come in referred as a possible pulmonary embolism. He even had symptoms suggestive and a raised blood level in concordance with the diagnosis. I was certain he had musculoskeletal chest pain. I had no way of 100% proving that without further testing which would have lead to unnecessary radiation. I sent him home but he could well of had a life threatening illness going with him.

    My point is that level of responsibility is the reason I believe we deserve a higher pay than other working long days for minimum wage. That and the 6 years of education and hard work I paid for and for which I have a debt of nearly 50 grand.

    And btw I don't think I'm above anyone. Or at least I think I don't. All jobs are important. Someone needs to make my wheels and frames. I don't know how to. But i do know how to save lives and prevent deaths. That to me seems like more responsibility than making a saddlebag.

    My 2 cents.

    NB. If you hadn't worked out by now I'm a doctor. For anyone who cares I'm at SHO level.


    You won't get much sympathy here I'm afraid, most on this forum think that anyone above minimum wage deserved to be tarred and feathered :shock:
    I am shocked that this has got so far and realise that money is key and so it should be, we can't run at a loss even though i support the strike fully.

    The answer is accountability as it is in all forms of government.

    Accountability of those wasting funds.
    Accountability of those abusing the service.


    If found to have wasted funds or diverted funds endlessly there should be charges brought for at least 6 years after the guilty person/s finish their post.

    If abusing the service, like drunks or people fighting, they should pay towards their care.

    Whether anyone agrees with me or not doesn't both me but when you think about it, if even those two points were practiced, we wouldn't be worrying about paying the medical profession a fair wage for their skills and work which is a damn site higher than they currently get.
    Living MY dream.
  • letap73letap73 Posts: 1,608
    Amazing. The doctors say their main concern is the patients welfare so they go on strike. Money is the reason. They are well paid. Get your lazy ars* to work and stop complaining. There are people on the minimum wage doing long hours to make ends meet. If you don't like it, get a different job.

    How much do you think we get paid? Seriously I'd like to know an opinion of someone I assume is doesn't work within medicine.

    There are many issues including pay, but also extended hours, a ridiculous shift pattern, patient safety, doctor safety and the start of the privatisation of the NHS.

    The pay issue for me regards responsibility. On nights I am responsible for 100 patients. Several times a night I see people who are dying and I have to decide how to make them better. Each time I am discharging someone from hospital I am essentially saying they are safe to go me home and won't die.

    I had a chap come in referred as a possible pulmonary embolism. He even had symptoms suggestive and a raised blood level in concordance with the diagnosis. I was certain he had musculoskeletal chest pain. I had no way of 100% proving that without further testing which would have lead to unnecessary radiation. I sent him home but he could well of had a life threatening illness going with him.

    My point is that level of responsibility is the reason I believe we deserve a higher pay than other working long days for minimum wage. That and the 6 years of education and hard work I paid for and for which I have a debt of nearly 50 grand.

    And btw I don't think I'm above anyone. Or at least I think I don't. All jobs are important. Someone needs to make my wheels and frames. I don't know how to. But i do know how to save lives and prevent deaths. That to me seems like more responsibility than making a saddlebag.

    My 2 cents.

    NB. If you hadn't worked out by now I'm a doctor. For anyone who cares I'm at SHO level.

    I don't know why you bothered responding to that post, especially as I don't think said poster will likely read your response or even accept that you have a rationale point of view.
  • letap73letap73 Posts: 1,608
    You won't get much sympathy here I'm afraid, most on this forum think that anyone above minimum wage deserved to be tarred and feathered :shock:

    So you know the mind of all the posters on here?
    I think many posters on here will respect Smiley boys contribution whether they agree to it or not -as it alludes to issues which are outside of pay. He does not appear to flaunt his wealth in an incongruous fashion either when making his points.
  • tim wandtim wand Posts: 2,945
    Amazing. The doctors say their main concern is the patients welfare so they go on strike. Money is the reason. They are well paid. Get your lazy ars* to work and stop complaining. There are people on the minimum wage doing long hours to make ends meet. If you don't like it, get a different job.


    I ll take home more than a Junior Doctor this year, for delivering post, I didn't train for over 7 years and I don't work anti social hours. My typical week is 39 hours for which any pay increase I receive is paid in full on all contracted hours and any over time I work is paid at an increase rate for the first 10 hours, of which whether I do it or not is entirely my choice. I put bits of paper through letter boxes.

    Junior doctors will only get a pay rise on their basic 40 hour contract, but will have to contract in to work a minimum of 60 hours, 20 hours on call at no increase in rate on top of the basic 40 hours, They save peoples lives. Go figure.

    Is there any one in the Tory Cabinet who hasn't got a private health scheme any way?

    60 hours a week making life or death decisions on a £30 k a year basic, No its not minimal wage! But compared to an M.Ps salary and hours its pretty damn close.
  • Amazing. The doctors say their main concern is the patients welfare so they go on strike. Money is the reason. They are well paid. Get your lazy ars* to work and stop complaining. There are people on the minimum wage doing long hours to make ends meet. If you don't like it, get a different job.


    I ll take home more than a Junior Doctor this year, for delivering post, I didn't train for over 7 years and I don't work anti social hours. My typical week is 39 hours for which any pay increase I receive is paid in full on all contracted hours and any over time I work is paid at an increase rate for the first 10 hours, of which whether I do it or not is entirely my choice. I put bits of paper through letter boxes.

    Junior doctors will only get a pay rise on their basic 40 hour contract, but will have to contract in to work a minimum of 60 hours, 20 hours on call at no increase in rate on top of the basic 40 hours, They save peoples lives. Go figure.

    Is there any one in the Tory Cabinet who hasn't got a private health scheme any way?

    60 hours a week making life or death decisions on a £30 k a year basic, No its not minimal wage! But compared to an M.Ps salary and hours its pretty damn close.
    Well said Tim.

    I too earn more than a junior doctor but I would happily have them paid more than I. People can live without engineers, doctors not so.
    Tail end Charlie

    The above post may contain traces of sarcasm or/and bullsh*t.
  • ProssPross Posts: 25,360
    People can live without engineers, doctors not so.

    Hmm, not quite so sure about that. Modern medicine is one of many things that relies heavily on highly skilled engineers.
  • People can live without engineers, doctors not so.

    Hmm, not quite so sure about that. Modern medicine is one of many things that relies heavily on highly skilled engineers.
    All the sciences are indeed interconnected, I was being simplistic.

    I am an engineer, but I value the worth of doctors above that of myself.
    Tail end Charlie

    The above post may contain traces of sarcasm or/and bullsh*t.
  • ballysmateballysmate Posts: 14,748
    Amazing. The doctors say their main concern is the patients welfare so they go on strike. Money is the reason. They are well paid. Get your lazy ars* to work and stop complaining. There are people on the minimum wage doing long hours to make ends meet. If you don't like it, get a different job.


    I ll take home more than a Junior Doctor this year, for delivering post, I didn't train for over 7 years and I don't work anti social hours. My typical week is 39 hours for which any pay increase I receive is paid in full on all contracted hours and any over time I work is paid at an increase rate for the first 10 hours, of which whether I do it or not is entirely my choice. I put bits of paper through letter boxes.

    Junior doctors will only get a pay rise on their basic 40 hour contract, but will have to contract in to work a minimum of 60 hours, 20 hours on call at no increase in rate on top of the basic 40 hours, They save peoples lives. Go figure.

    Is there any one in the Tory Cabinet who hasn't got a private health scheme any way?

    60 hours a week making life or death decisions on a £30 k a year basic, No its not minimal wage! But compared to an M.Ps salary and hours its pretty damn close.
    Well said Tim.

    I too earn more than a junior doctor but I would happily have them paid more than I. People can live without engineers, doctors not so.


    Well I never!!
    Frank the Fat Cat!! :lol:
  • Amazing. The doctors say their main concern is the patients welfare so they go on strike. Money is the reason. They are well paid. Get your lazy ars* to work and stop complaining. There are people on the minimum wage doing long hours to make ends meet. If you don't like it, get a different job.


    I ll take home more than a Junior Doctor this year, for delivering post, I didn't train for over 7 years and I don't work anti social hours. My typical week is 39 hours for which any pay increase I receive is paid in full on all contracted hours and any over time I work is paid at an increase rate for the first 10 hours, of which whether I do it or not is entirely my choice. I put bits of paper through letter boxes.

    Junior doctors will only get a pay rise on their basic 40 hour contract, but will have to contract in to work a minimum of 60 hours, 20 hours on call at no increase in rate on top of the basic 40 hours, They save peoples lives. Go figure.

    Is there any one in the Tory Cabinet who hasn't got a private health scheme any way?

    60 hours a week making life or death decisions on a £30 k a year basic, No its not minimal wage! But compared to an M.Ps salary and hours its pretty damn close.
    Well said Tim.

    I too earn more than a junior doctor but I would happily have them paid more than I. People can live without engineers, doctors not so.


    Well I never!!
    Frank the Fat Cat!! :lol:
    Champagne socialist me. :lol::lol:

    I don't earn enough to pay more than the basic rate of income tax.
    Tail end Charlie

    The above post may contain traces of sarcasm or/and bullsh*t.
  • bompingtonbompington Posts: 7,595
    Amazing. The doctors say their main concern is the patients welfare so they go on strike. Money is the reason. They are well paid. Get your lazy ars* to work and stop complaining. There are people on the minimum wage doing long hours to make ends meet. If you don't like it, get a different job.
    My goodness, I'm struggling to know how to reply to this tendentious piece of censored .
    First, the patients' welfare. The strike will basically reduce cover to weekend levels, for 3 days: and research (contrary to what the "7 day NHS" fans say) shows that patients are just as safe at weekends. Patient safety will be far more compromised by even greater numbers of doctors leaving the country, which is what will happen if Hunt gets his way.
    Next: well paid. Well, it is true that the starting salary is higher than a nurse's, by a whole £1k! Except that nurses get a bursary while training, and their training takes 2 years less, and they get a vastly better deal when it comes to overtime and anti-social hours, and...
    The fact is that to get to be a doctor you have to do incredibly well at school, and keep up a level of study at uni that (by common consent of everyone I know) is a level above any other course. After 5 years of this at least you start to get paid, but the studying doesn't stop - the comparison with engineers neglects to mention that you basically have another 10 years of exams and training: that's why some mentions of junior doctors' pay seem to look so high - you can be a junior for well over 10 years.
    Next: lazy arses. Well, Socrates, pleases tell us what life-and-death job it is you do 14 hour night shifts on. On top of studying for exams, of course, some of which have pass rates as low as 10% and cost £100s of pounds each time. Work where, if you do a simple sum wrong out of tiredness someone dies, I assume? Work where you will often have to tell people they're going to die? Work where you have to physically restrain a screaming father because he's getting in the way of you trying to save his 2 year-old child with the squashed skull? And then go and tell him minutes later that you couldn't?
    That's what Mrs Bomp had to do once. That and a lot of other stuff. I still remember the time I kissed her goodbye on her first Monday morning at work, all bright eyed enthusiasm. And how I had to treat the dribbling - yes, literally - zombie who came home on wednesday evening, hardly able to talk, like a baby. How many hours I saw her studying, before and after graduation.

    So yes, I declare an interest, and I'm only wasting my time replying to the idiot troll because you've insulted my wife, along with thousands of others.

    But consider this also. I an no Tory-hating fury chimp, as you might glean from looking at my posts here. There's no doubt Hunt's wrong about this one, not just because you must be doing something pretty badly wrong to piss off such a huge majority of people who are not exactly natural trade union militants, but on purely free market grounds - because in the end, salaries are all about supply and demand.

    I suspect the supply of junior doctors might be about to plummet if he gets his way.
  • mamba80mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    i ve just choked on my Merlot and Brie reading that, well spoken Comrade :shock:
  • ballysmateballysmate Posts: 14,748
    ^Top post and despite some on here, the vast majority of the population do not think like Bally or Scrotum.

    My mum, a nurse for 40 years is due in for heart op in Decmeber, it might be cancelled because of the strike, she doesnt care as she supports you 100% and is a life long tory who thinks hunt is a fool.

    Did I say anywhere that doctors are not worth their pay or not worth more. I said the strike was about money. Smiley's post didn't contradict that it was a factor.

    So how does Bally think?
    Is the dispute about money, as I said earlier - yes.
    Covering out of hours or unsocial hours is expensive. Healthcare trusts undoubtedly look at these periods where they can save costs and cut manning levels as far as possible, sometimes too far. The pay review is designed to save money to, it would seem, the detriment of the doctors.
    Finchy, I am glad your nipper was ok but there is a problem with weekends.
    Evidence drawn from national research by influential professional bodies, such as the Royal
    Colleges and the National Confidential Enquiry into Patient Outcome and Death (NCEPOD),
    have highlighted deficiencies of care for many areas and demonstrated that patients admitted
    as a medical emergency at the weekend have a significantly greater risk of dying in hospital
    than those admitted on a weekday2 3 4 5 6
    .
    Further evidence of this “weekend effect” was reported in an analysis of NHS inpatient data
    from 2009/10 by Freemantle et al7
    . The analysis concluded that being admitted at the weekend
    is associated with an increased risk of mortality within 30 days of admission compared to
    weekdays. This ranged from an 11% increase on Saturday to a 16% increase on Sunday when
    compared to patients admitted on a Wednesday.
    Most recently a further a study by Bell et al8 found that patients admitted to hospital as an
    acute medical emergency at the weekend had a 14% increased chance of mortality than those
    admitted on a weekday.
    The explanation for this higher mortality rate outside of normal working hours is multifactorial
    and as such there is little evidence to establish a cause and effect relationship. However, a
    great deal of analysis has been undertaken in the area and some widely accepted associations
    made, which are discussed further in section 5 and summarised as follows:
    • Variable staffing levels in hospitals at weekends;
    • A lack of consistent specialist services, such as diagnostics, at weekends; and
    • A lack of availability of specialist community and primary care services, resulting in more
    patients on an end of life care pathway dying in hospital.

    https://www.england.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/evidence-base.pdf

    There needs to be provision whereby weekend cover is not so much more expensive than cover Mon - Friday.
    A rise of 11% has been offered but this is less than the minimum 14.9% that the Dr and Dentist review body recommended.
    I understand the doctors anger and say without reservation that they deserve a fair return for their commitment and I hope the money is found to satisfy them.. I don't believe a strike is necessarily in anyone's interests. THere you go, I said they deserve a decent rise.
    As I said, the dispute is about money, the government is trying to save it and the docs don't want it to be at their expense. Don't let's pretend otherwise.

    On a side note, my bros in law works for a company tasked with the maintenance of IT systems within various Trusts. He works at the QE in Brum, fantastic salary that would make a doc's eyes water. How can that be right?
  • bompingtonbompington Posts: 7,595
    i ve just choked on my Merlot and Brie reading that, well spoken Comrade :shock:
    I'll see you on the barricades, Brother. I'll bring the champagne.
  • bompingtonbompington Posts: 7,595
    Bally - other studies have suggested the weekend effect is not so great, or even non-existent, given that by definition, only the sicker patients go to hospital at weekends.
    Try recommending a 24/7 NHS to the A&E staff doing the weekend double long night shift, perhaps at about 5am on sunday morning after the last obnoxious drunk has vomited on their feet.
  • FatTedFatTed Posts: 1,205
    Not Sure if the 98% is of those eligible to vote or of the number of junior doctors belonging to the BMA. Wales Scotland and Northern Ireland will not be introducing the new contract. I think there is in most hospitals sufficient cover for emergency care, just not routine care. The 11% pay rise is really bollocks because of the increase of normal hours from 7 am to 10 pm Monday thru Saturday, which in turn does not disincentives the trusts from employing docs for greater number of hours. For a proper work/family life balance weekends are an important institution. As Socrates posted "If you don't like it, get a different job" I think that will happen, for the first time application to medical schools has fallen. The docs will be going overseas, but never mind the places will be filed by Docs from elsewhere in the EC. Don't forget to run the NHS 24/7 you also need Nurses, Doctors , Porters, Secretaries, Radiology (not sure about managers, I think they can be safe at home) pharmacists, Social services etc
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 14,133
    Next: well paid. Well, it is true that the starting salary is higher than a nurse's, by a whole £1k! Except that nurses get a bursary while training, and their training takes 2 years less, and they get a vastly better deal when it comes to overtime and anti-social hours, and...
    Another part of Hunt's master plan is to remove that bursary.
    So there will be less nurses as well.
    The NHS is doomed on it's current path.
    Or is it being stripped down to be more attractive to potential investors?
    Either way, the NHS as we know it is in danger.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
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