If you were buying a new bike would you go for di2?
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SRAM eTap for me0
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I find many of the arguments against Di2 funny:
1. Cost of replacement parts? Too funny. If you're racing, you want to give yourself every competitive advantage or are you all riding aluminium bikes on Tiagra and RS10 wheels? I don't think so.
2. Weight? Di2 is now lighter than mechanical
3. Roadside repairs? What roadside repairs?
4. Charging batteries? Once every 1000 miles for 30 mins. Assuming you have a mobile phone or lights, I'm sure that this isn't beyond you.
5. Capability?ni find it funny on one hand that people say that Di2 is for people that can't set up mechanical and, on the other hand, is too complex. Truth is, I've adjusted up loads of people's mechanical systems for them whilst never having touched my own Di2. Even first set-up, you can adjust Di2 on the bike whilst riding.
If you're the kinda guy who has his shifters on the downtube, then fine, they'll match your wool jersey and pedal clips. But the only good reason not to buy Di2 is because you can't afford it. For the rest it's better, lighter and simpler.
1. There is no competitive advantage of one over the other on a road bike. 5800 shifts as well as 9070, and considering crits are crash-fests, it's foolish to use a £400 rear mech when a £30 one will do.
2. Actually my 9070 came out a few grams heavier than my 9000. Really depends on what cables and cable lengths you use. On my TT bike my Di2 is far heavier than the mechanical equivalent as I need to use 5 junction boxes and loads of cables.
3. On 400k+ rides I take spare gear cables, whereas a spare EW-50 isn't going to do anything. Now etubes Di2 has been reliable for me, but I still wouldn't want to take it on a super long ride when I'm stuck in the ass end of nowhere. Also, the Di2 on my TT bike does go out of adjustment and as the A junction is in the headtube it's a 2 hour job to make any adjustments.
4. Yes, charging is quick and easy (except on the TT bike); however, many of us are super forgetful.
5. Keep in mind that you need a Windows PC to install and use the etubes software, so those on Mac OS are SOL. In terms of install and setting them up, their equally as easy, but that's only after you know how to do it. If you've been using mechanical for ages and are confident with it, then there is still a learning curve with Di2.
Final thoughts; get your head out of your ass. This is cycling, personal preference is the most important metric when buying anything. I had 9070, I can afford 9070, I don't like the lack of tactile feedback with road Di2, so I'm back on mechanical. Not only that, just because one can afford something doesn't mean they should waste money on it (especially when it provides negative value from a personal satisfaction standpoint). Saying it's better, lighter and simpler is misleading and disingenuous. People should get what makes them happy, not what you, or the industry, says is best.English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg0 -
But the only good reason not to buy Di2 is because you can't afford it.
A lot of your points are very good but come on - this isn't fair! There is soul, and style and the joy of mechanical things. You of all people should be able to appreciate that there is something a whole lot more loveable about mechanical engineering rather than electrical engineering. As far as I can see, for my summer bike, I will only ever want my gadgets to be removable via a twist lock. It should be more than just a gadget. One day, I expect my commuter bike will end up with Veloce EPS and that's the right place for it. It may even get disc brakes too! My summer bike deserves better.....
So be good and concede and maybe, when I get round to it, I will tell you something you'll enjoy about Sealskin gloves!
Faster than a tent.......0 -
I find many of the arguments against Di2 funny:
1. Cost of replacement parts? Too funny. If you're racing, you want to give yourself every competitive advantage or are you all riding aluminium bikes on Tiagra and RS10 wheels? I don't think so.
2. Weight? Di2 is now lighter than mechanical
3. Roadside repairs? What roadside repairs?
4. Charging batteries? Once every 1000 miles for 30 mins. Assuming you have a mobile phone or lights, I'm sure that this isn't beyond you.
5. Capability?ni find it funny on one hand that people say that Di2 is for people that can't set up mechanical and, on the other hand, is too complex. Truth is, I've adjusted up loads of people's mechanical systems for them whilst never having touched my own Di2. Even first set-up, you can adjust Di2 on the bike whilst riding.
If you're the kinda guy who has his shifters on the downtube, then fine, they'll match your wool jersey and pedal clips. But the only good reason not to buy Di2 is because you can't afford it. For the rest it's better, lighter and simpler.
Now you are being silly, am racing isnt won by whether your on di2 or not, as i said on a tt maybe there is a some adv, i dont think you ve done much RR ?
just because someone likes mech, doesnt mean they are a ludite, still riding around on their 1980s steel Eroica special.
you obviously love di2, thats great, but for me, having tried it, i dont see it as being worth the money esp as the OP is using the bike for road racing.0 -
IMO, Di2 DOES shift better then 9000 or 5800, etc.
1. Front shifts - quick, light press of button and it's done. No effort, no rattling, no delay. (And this with Q rings).
2. Auto-trim - no need to worry about front mech rubbing anymore - this is A Good Thing.
3. Can change 10 gears at the back in one move - just hold the button down. With practice you can shift the exact number of gears you want by timing your press.
4. With the EWW01 you always know exactly what gear you are in (it's on the Garmin), no need to look at the cassette. (Something I realise now I was doing all the time).
5. Can customize shift levers to do different things (although no Mac OS is a PITA)
When racing (Not TT) all the above does IMO give a small, tangible advantage.
Having said all that, would I fork out a grand to upgrade the 9000 on my 2nd bike? No, not worth it.
I'll wait for the next iteration of Di2 (or SRAM Etap, but I have my doubts on wireless reliability), and then shove the 9070 onto the 2nd bike.0 -
5800/6800/9000 front shifting is as easy as rear shifting. Also, why would you need to dump 10 gears in one go?
As far as it being an advantage... no. The same people would win regardless of their gruppo.English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg0 -
5800/6800/9000 front shifting is as easy as rear shifting. Also, why would you need to dump 10 gears in one go?
As far as it being an advantage... no. The same people would win regardless of their gruppo.
Why aren't we all riding around on 5800 then? And a front shift (14 teeth approx) has to be a more complex operation that a rear shift, (1 tooth).
Maybe not 10, but where we ride, there are lots of short, sharp, 'rollercoaster' style hills, so the need to move quite a few gears quickly is a plus.
If I have more aero wheels, better gear changes, etc. etc. I have a small advantage over where I was before. Does it mean I'm going to win all my races? No.0 -
Because 6800/9000 came first. 6800/9000 is also lighter with a crisper rear change, but in reality we' probably all be happy with 5800. If you're placings haven't improved solely as a result of Di2 then the advantage is hardly tangible.English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg0
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Maybe not 10, but where we ride, there are lots of short, sharp, 'rollercoaster' style hills, so the need to move quite a few gears quickly is a plus.
It is indeed a plus but not an advantage specific to electronic shifting so this argument isn't really that relevant.
Faster than a tent.......0 -
Maybe not 10, but where we ride, there are lots of short, sharp, 'rollercoaster' style hills, so the need to move quite a few gears quickly is a plus.
It is indeed a plus but not an advantage specific to electronic shifting so this argument isn't really that relevant.
last time I checked mechanical moved 3 gears with one throw?0 -
Yes but you can do it multiple times. I've never had an issue with getting in the right gear with mechanical. In fact, I disable the auto shift Di2 function because I found it incredibly annoying and it cost me time.English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg0
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Yes but you can do it multiple times. I've never had an issue with getting in the right gear with mechanical. In fact, I disable the auto shift Di2 function because I found it incredibly annoying and it cost me time.
Well, I prefer it. Horses for courses, eh?
Personally I find it easier just to press and hold a little button for about 1 second, than to throw a large lever twice, but hey, that's just me!0 -
Its the future, either embrace it now or in the future (when 105 Di2 comes out probably :roll: ), but don't moan about it now then embrace it in the future
Am sure I will always have at least one mechanically shifting and braking bike (despite not really liking cables) so the answer (like it is to a lot of things) is to have both.
Its not like when MiniDisc came out and I could not purge the house of compact cassettes quick enough!0 -
Personally I find it easier just to press and hold a little button for about 1 second, than to throw a large lever twice, but hey, that's just me!
Its throwing a large lever hundreds of times on a decent ride
I find it quite funny that a lot of older riders (the type that have spent years moaning about modern stuff and double chainrings) will be queuing up for push button levers as soon as the price drops.
Do they make a Di2 triple?
Joint fatigue is certainly a big reason that I am looking forward to Di2.0 -
Maybe not 10, but where we ride, there are lots of short, sharp, 'rollercoaster' style hills, so the need to move quite a few gears quickly is a plus.
It is indeed a plus but not an advantage specific to electronic shifting so this argument isn't really that relevant.
last time I checked mechanical moved 3 gears with one throw?
Yep - 4 up, 3 down in Campag.Carbonator wrote:Its the future, either embrace it now or in the future (when 105 Di2 comes out probably :roll: ), but don't moan about it now then embrace it in the future
Why not? Are folk not allowed to change their minds if they want?! Faster than a tent.......0 -
Carbonator wrote:Its the future, either embrace it now or in the future (when 105 Di2 comes out probably :roll: ), but don't moan about it now then embrace it in the future
Why not? Are folk not allowed to change their minds if they want?!
No!
If only it were as simple as people changing their minds 8)0 -
Now it looks like I ve decided I'm getting a "winter" bike for more adventurous trips then I would consider Di2 on my (now) summer race bike. What puts me off is that I ve hear too many stores of people putting the bike in a bag, knocking something small that turns out to control the whole system and then being unable to find a replacement on their holiday rendering their bike useless.
The stuff about mending stuff road sides is about attitudes. You roadies ( :P ) have it easy being able to phone for a wife/taxi to come and pick you up with your broken bike. When we used to go MTBing up in snowdonia of a Wednesday night, breaking something could result in a long (1-2hr) walk carrying a bike in rubbish shoes and flimsy lycra. In short it had the potential to go south rather quickly. So you HAD to fix problems that came up. There are a lot more options for bodging a drive train that will get you home/back to the car with a mechanical groupset. If you broke a cable then you could tie the rest of it around the tube to jimmy the derailleur into the middle of the block for example.
2 examples come to mind -
1) last wednesday when a club buddy split a tyre, we were actually quite far away from civillisation by Dutch standards and he was panicking and stressing about getting home (by now were were all really quite cold). I went and dug a Capri Sun package out of the hedge and used that as a tyre patch - it wasnt great but it got him back to civillisation (and I suspect would have got him home but he wussed out, booo)
2) with regard to drivetrains specifically, my friend smashed his rear mech at the RVV sportive last year. For 99% of the rest of the riders that would have been a call to the organisers and a taxi back to Oudenaarde but one of us managed to basically rebuild the mech, bending the cages back into place and (somehow) reattaching the jockey wheels so he could, gingerly, ride onWe're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
There’s convincing arguments coming from both sides.
I‘ve got DA9000 on my summer bike and it’s been great. Am building a new high end bike and unsure whether to move to Di29070 or stick with DA9000.
I rode Di29070 for a week on a hire bike and it was great. But I’m not sure I was blown away enough to justify the price premium, which is £600 currently.
But there’s still something really appealing about having Di2.
Decisions, decisions...0 -
For me it is not worth the extra cost. I am not really fast and have no health issues it would help. The other concern is if it breaks on a ride that's it. I have been mountain biking for decades and done various trail side repairs but maybe not as much of a problem on the road as on a remote mountain trail.0
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I have Di2 on my current bike but crashed it and snapped off the rear mech in the process last week. As 10 speed components are now obsolete I'm tasked with buying a new bike and have opted for a Cervelo S3. The Di2 version is another £1k so I'm now having the same debate as to whether to do that or upgrade the wheels and buy a new power meter and then upgrade to Di2 next summer. Di2 shifting really is a thing of absolute beauty though, I think I'll regret not doing it if I stick with mechanical.0
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Electronic is the way to go. Evberyone has their preference but if I was laying the money down I would use Di2 (Ultegra) as a matter of courseM.Rushton0
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Yes but you can do it multiple times. I've never had an issue with getting in the right gear with mechanical. In fact, I disable the auto shift Di2 function because I found it incredibly annoying and it cost me time.
Well, I prefer it. Horses for courses, eh?
Personally I find it easier just to press and hold a little button for about 1 second, than to throw a large lever twice, but hey, that's just me!
i thought you had major league problems with Di2? you ve another bike, so you could keep riding BUT what if that had been your only bike
and i m sure you said for the Mallorca 321 (or something similar) you ll be using your mech set up? 0 -
Yes but you can do it multiple times. I've never had an issue with getting in the right gear with mechanical. In fact, I disable the auto shift Di2 function because I found it incredibly annoying and it cost me time.
Well, I prefer it. Horses for courses, eh?
Personally I find it easier just to press and hold a little button for about 1 second, than to throw a large lever twice, but hey, that's just me!
i thought you had major league problems with Di2? you ve another bike, so you could keep riding BUT what if that had been your only bike and i m sure you said for the Mallorca 321 (or something similar) you ll be using your mech set up?
OK, let me explain! ! Sworks (SL5, 9070) is in France, the other (SL4, 9000) is in Palma.
As I mentioned at the start of this thread, I have had a couple of issues with my Di2, but they were resolved and haven't re-ocurred. But yes, I was bikeless for 1 day, while I sorted it out. So as much as I love the way Di2 works, I am a bit wary as to it's total reliability.
I did the Mallorca 312 with the SL4, so by definition, with mechanical.0 -
So, despite convincing myself to go mechanical i test rode a Di2 bike last night. Have to admit that i did like it. I did find the buttons a bit tricky (did have full fingered winter gloves on though) but i was impressed with the speed of the changes, in particular shifting up and down on the front mech.
I do have a couple of questions from this test ride though:
- The battery is stored internally in the seatpost. If the battery were to fail and need replacing how easy is it to remove from the seatpost?
- Does the front mech ever run the risk of dropping the chain inside the inner ring??
- Has anyone ever had the electric wires pop out of the grommets mid ride?
- How easy are the internally routed electric wires to replace?
In a way i wish i hadn't ridden the bike last night. Whilst it didn't blow me away, i must admit there was something nice about the Di2 shifting. So much so, that despite the costs of replacement parts being higher than mechanical, i am now seriously considering paying the extra money for the Di2 equipped new bike.0 -
Not ridden it but at a guess
- easy enough I think - they sell them as groupsets so I suspect that it's a simple job and it just slides in and is held with an expandable bung
- If it's set up wrong, yes - like any other FD
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- shouldnt think they re a lot harder then regular cables. TH ebit that gets me is getting them up to the hole for the FD or along the chainstay. I ve always assumed that you feed the wires In through the derailleur holes then into the head tube and meet in the BB somewhereWe're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
I do have a couple of questions from this test ride though:
- The battery is stored internally in the seatpost. If the battery were to fail and need replacing how easy is it to remove from the seatpost?
Very easy.
- Does the front mech ever run the risk of dropping the chain inside the inner ring??
No.
- Has anyone ever had the electric wires pop out of the grommets mid ride?
You mean their sockets? No. They're in pretty good.
- How easy are the internally routed electric wires to replace?
Just as easy/hard as cables, i.e. not very. Practice helps.0 -
see here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkdY9q-u5DkWe're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
see here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkdY9q-u5Dk
Thanks. Really interesting video. Do the wires and junction box rattle inside the frame? The video showed the junction box being pushed up from the bottom bracket into one of the tubes, but nothing specific held it in place (i assume it would drop and rest on the BB?).
Thanks0
