If you had £1,000 for a frameset
Comments
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Isn't comfort more to do with fit and tyres more than anything else?
I have an 853 Genesis and a Scott Foil HMX and i've raced on both.
I have taken the supposedly harsh Foil on 5 day trips to the Alps and ridden the 853 for 205 miles in a day.
They both have the same saddle (Selle italia Kit Carbonio), tyres Vittoria Corsa 25mm) and fit (Retul) and they do not feel any different.
By the way, you can get the 853 Genesis for £650 with the Enve fork from paul milnes - not sure you could get any better at that price point.
Throw on some H PLus Son handbuilt Archetypes and you'll love it
Both builds are in my signature
MattScott Foil Di2 viewtopic.php?f=40044&t=13020685&p=19496365#p19496365
Genesis Volare 853 viewtopic.php?f=40044&t=13020702&p=19589281#p195892810 -
I would not recommend the CAAD 10 as I know two people who have them and while they say it rides well both have had issues with the BB30 and had to fit praxis kits to stop the creaking. Thats an issue with other frames also but worth bearing in mind.
For goos Alu frames I would look to German bike builders such as Canyon, Storck or Rose.Brian B.0 -
Isn't comfort more to do with fit and tyres more than anything else?
They help but the geometry, fork material, wheels, and pretty much anything else on the bike can effect comfort.
I foil can be nice comfortable to sit on but is you are at a low angle with low down bars then you are going to suffer quicker than if you were on a more sit up and beg position. your posture effect comfort too.
Vibration through the bars can fatigue you quicker. Some if this is tyres, some is wheels and but alot is frame and fork material. Hence Pinarello Dogma K with suspension on the rear, Zertz on a Roubaix or Countervail on a Bianchi Infinito CV.0 -
Some interesting replies here, thank you.
To pick up on the whole Carbon point. Well, I've ridden a couple of 100milers now on the Allez and experienced no fatigue caused by the frame, only from being truly shattered from the effort. I can't imagine I would have felt any different on a carbon frame.
And I now this is becoming a bit of a cliche but I do question the quality of frame I would obtain with my budget.0 -
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8.2 Kg caad10. Had mine at around 7kg. Could get a 10 below 7kg no problem. Also ran 27mm tyres no problem whatsoever on my 10 with shimano callipers & have 28mm pro endurance 4 on my caad 12 with tumps of room left.0
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What size are you after ?
Sure you can get complete Supersix's with Sram Rival or 105 on for a grand at Tredz, Wheelies, Pauls etc
I only paid £1250 for my Supersix with Sram Force on
If you want to spend a grand then I do like the Canyon frames but a complete Supersix for the same money has go to be better.25th August 2013 12hrs 37mins 52.3 seconds 238km 5500mtrs FYRM Never again.0 -
Ditch the idea of a aluminium frameset. Buy a Specialized Tarmac Sport in the sale (I paid £1200 at the start of the year). Flog the bits you don't want on here or on ebay and buy a set of light wheels with the proceeds. You wont regret it. I didn't.
The CAAD10 is a great aluminium frame but its bone jarring compared to a half decent carbon frame. Its also a good bit heavier. My CAAD10 was 8.2KG at its lightest and the Tarmac Sport is 8.3KG as standard. As soon as I transferred all the bits from my CAAD10 to the Tarmac that brought the Tarmac down to 7.5KG.
The same could probably be said for other carbon framesets but this is the only one I have rode for any length of time.
0.7kg difference just in the frameset? In total, frame, fork, headset, bb30 bearings, cage bolts and seat clamp for my CAAD came in at 1.787. Fag packet maths would put the bare Tarmac frame at something under 800g, unless the fork is hugely lighter than the CAAD fork, which I kind of doubt.0 -
Too many people pushing what they like and what they would buy to suite their whim. A Tarmac is not a sportive bike. Get something with a more relaxed geometry. That is kind of what he said at the beginning. If you are going to push at getting a tarmac then a Roubaix would make more sense. If you suggest an Allez a Secteur would make more sense. Not a bike with a low down aggressive race geometry. Not for long distances and sportives.0
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You can do a sportive on any bike. All of my 400k, 600k and 1000k rides have been on bikes with 'race' geometry. Still standing.English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg0
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You can do a sportive on any bike. All of my 400k, 600k and 1000k rides have been on bikes with 'race' geometry. Still standing.
Wow. Well done you. But again. We are not talking about you. Specialized make relaxed sportive bikes tailor made for what the OP is looking at. Now, if they make them bikes for sportives and lo g distance riding then they are a more suitable bike to buy. Or are you better at choosing bikes than them?
If the OP had suggested that racing was something he was interested in then maybe a tarmac would possibly be a compromise. But sportives and long tides in the summer do not need to be done on a race geometry frame when there are better options available and the Roubaix is just that.0 -
You sound like you're from Spec's marketing department. The 'best' option is the one you like. I'd rather ride a convict's tackle than a Roubaix.English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg0
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You sound like you're from Spec's marketing department. The 'best' option is the one you like. I'd rather ride a convict's tackle than a Roubaix.
Sounds more like your dislike of Roubaixs is effecting your opinion more than anything.
I never said he should get a Roubaix per se, I said get a relaxed geometry bike. I never would own a Specialized anything. I was only using the Roubaix as an example since others suggested tarmac. Since Specialized make both. If I wanted to offer the bike I would buy Id say a Bianchi Infinito but that would be over budget for the OP.0 -
Hardly. The one thing you learn after many years in retail is that the product doesn't actually matter, it's how the purchaser feels about it. You can sell 95% of bikes to 95% of people and they'll be thrilled as long as they like the colour.English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg0
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So it is your expert opinion that the millions of dollars spent in research and development in different materials and components is all completely pointless and people only care about what colour it is?
Why do you choose the bikes you ride. Are they a pretty colour?0 -
This forum, like many others, represents the sharp end of the spectrum and isn't representative of the majority. Even within this forum you'll have extremes in terms of what people value in a bike. Simple fact of the matter as long as it goes when you pedal and stops when you use the brakes, then it serves its purpose. Once someone has made a purchase they are immediately protective of said purchase and will irrationally defend it as to admit a poor purchase is akin to admitting one is wrong (and we can't have that now, can we?). I take it you've never worked retail...
I bought my bikes because I wanted them. They're no better than anyone else's bikes, they just happen to be mine.English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg0 -
MR - it probably is true. Plus whatever millions are spent on r and d probably pales in comparison to marketing and spin.
Anyway, I certainly get more enjoyment out of a more racy ride even though I do no races.0 -
Alleged sportive geometry is all well and good for some people, but if you're a bit differently proportioned, it's not necessarily more comfortable than alleged race geometry. Choosing a bike based on how a manufacturer labels the geometry rather than the dimensions of your own body would be idiotic.
Being short in the leg, but long in arm and body, Roubaix etc with a lot of height in the head tube just aren't as comfortable as something lower and longer. Add that to (usually) greater weight and (usually) slacker handling and comfort features I haven't found any need for (and a couple more acronym decals for same) and I'm failing to see the advantages all round.0 -
This forum, like many others, represents the sharp end of the spectrum and isn't representative of the majority. Even within this forum you'll have extremes in terms of what people value in a bike. Simple fact of the matter as long as it goes when you pedal and stops when you use the brakes, then it serves its purpose. Once someone has made a purchase they are immediately protective of said purchase and will irrationally defend it as to admit a poor purchase is akin to admitting one is wrong (and we can't have that now, can we?). I take it you've never worked retail...
Working in retail does not make you a cutting edge expert. It makes you knowledgeable about the products you sell. I can go into Dixons and buy a TV from a 21 yr old who can not be classed as an expert. Are Halfords sales team exoerts in bikes? Yes you can push crap onto those who don't particularly know or in some cases care about the technical spec of whatever it is they are nuying but if someone comes onto a bike forum and asks for opinions on a bike for him to research for his next choice. Bare in mind he intended to build this as a project himself then I would not call him someone who only cares about what it looks like and its colour. If that was the case he could browse online for something that tickles his fancy without asking opinion first.
Yet again the people who frequent this forum show blatant disregard for the original posters original post and fail to answer point put there. And again they somehow have an unfounded opinion that they are clueless and do not know what they want.0 -
Alleged sportive geometry is all well and good for some people, but if you're a bit differently proportioned, it's not necessarily more comfortable than alleged race geometry. Choosing a bike based on how a manufacturer labels the geometry rather than the dimensions of your own body would be idiotic.
Being short in the leg, but long in arm and body, Roubaix etc with a lot of height in the head tube just aren't as comfortable as something lower and longer. Add that to (usually) greater weight and (usually) slacker handling and comfort features I haven't found any need for (and a couple more acronym decals for same) and I'm failing to see the advantages all round.
Yes. Tue but speculating that a frame geometry marketed as a sportive bike should be dismissed first and not explored first is ludicrous.
He may have a body shape that foes not suite that geometry but it may not suite a low ended race geometry just as much.
You don't know the shape of height or weight of the op. So why is this relevant? If he said so then it would be.0 -
Well, the OP stressed he'd prefer an lighter aluminium frame. So once you've found one that meets his requirements of being a best bike and lighter than his Allez is at present, that doesn't have supposed "racy" geometry, do let us know.Yet again the people who frequent this forum show blatant disregard for the original posters original post and fail to answer point put there. And again they somehow have an unfounded opinion that they are clueless and do not know what they want.
Hence your recommendation of that well known aluminium frame, the Specialized Roubaix?0 -
Look at the first reply in the thread.
Of course you're free to go on as if I have no idea what I'm talking about if it helps you sleep at night...English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg0 -
Alleged sportive geometry is all well and good for some people, but if you're a bit differently proportioned, it's not necessarily more comfortable than alleged race geometry. Choosing a bike based on how a manufacturer labels the geometry rather than the dimensions of your own body would be idiotic.
Being short in the leg, but long in arm and body, Roubaix etc with a lot of height in the head tube just aren't as comfortable as something lower and longer. Add that to (usually) greater weight and (usually) slacker handling and comfort features I haven't found any need for (and a couple more acronym decals for same) and I'm failing to see the advantages all round.
Yes. Tue but speculating that a frame geometry marketed as a sportive bike should be dismissed first and not explored first is ludicrous.
He may have a body shape that foes not suite that geometry but it may not suite a low ended race geometry just as much.
You don't know the shape of height or weight of the op. So why is this relevant? If he said so then it would be.
He/She has said on a few occasions that they are content with the fit on their Allez. That would imply to me that they're not phased by "racy" geometry, and presuming to tell them they needed something different in geometry and material to their brief seemed rude. It would imply they lacked clues, or knowledge of what they desired.0 -
Well, the OP stressed he'd prefer an lighter aluminium frame. So once you've found one that meets his requirements of being a best bike and lighter than his Allez is at present, that doesn't have supposed "racy" geometry, do let us know.Yet again the people who frequent this forum show blatant disregard for the original posters original post and fail to answer point put there. And again they somehow have an unfounded opinion that they are clueless and do not know what they want.
Hence your recommendation of that well known aluminium frame, the Specialized Roubaix?
I did not recommended a Roubaix. I said a Roubaixwould make more sense than a Tarmac I also said A secteur would make more sense than an Allez. Which are Alu. I didnt say buy any bike. I said a sportive type geometry. Again. Read the poi ts and dont pick out what you think i said0 -
Secteur is heavier than an Allez.
I don't understand why it makes more sense than using a geometry they've said they're comfortable on simply because it's described one way or t'other.0 -
Secteur is a lateral move in terms of frame but rubbish from a geo standpoint. CAAD is still the best choice.English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg0
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Alleged sportive geometry is all well and good for some people, but if you're a bit differently proportioned, it's not necessarily more comfortable than alleged race geometry. Choosing a bike based on how a manufacturer labels the geometry rather than the dimensions of your own body would be idiotic.
Being short in the leg, but long in arm and body, Roubaix etc with a lot of height in the head tube just aren't as comfortable as something lower and longer. Add that to (usually) greater weight and (usually) slacker handling and comfort features I haven't found any need for (and a couple more acronym decals for same) and I'm failing to see the advantages all round.
Yes. Tue but speculating that a frame geometry marketed as a sportive bike should be dismissed first and not explored first is ludicrous.
He may have a body shape that foes not suite that geometry but it may not suite a low ended race geometry just as much.
You don't know the shape of height or weight of the op. So why is this relevant? If he said so then it would be.
He/She has said on a few occasions that they are content with the fit on their Allez. That would imply to me that they're not phased by "racy" geometry, and presuming to tell them they needed something different in geometry and material to their brief seemed rude. It would imply they lacked clues, or knowledge of what they desired.
He owns an Allez and wants a new bike which he says is for a specific type of riding. He also says the Allez was always going to become a winter bike eventually so I doubt he wants to buy another Allez or he wouldn't come onto a forum to only go with the suggestion of buying the exact same bike again. He wants something different. Otherwise what would ne the point of buying a new frame? You may as well just buy a winter bike and keep the Allez as the best bike with the newer groupset.
Maybe the Allez was his first bike and was happywith it but now wants something lighter to ride up hills and do sportives and long rides in the summer. So. I decent sportive bike would be in my opinion the first place to look.0 -
If I rode my track bike in a sportive it would then become a sportive bike...English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg0
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Secteur is a lateral move in terms of frame but rubbish from a geo standpoint. CAAD is still the best choice.
I actually agreed this would have been a good choice with value for money. Reputation and ride. I argued that a roubaix was better than a tarmac. I know you didnt suggest that so why i am being criticised by you for it I dont know. A good alu frame would be ok. So long as it is a good alu frame. I also suggested a Ti frame as they have good reps.0 -
And, again, higher end aluminium frames in supposed "sportive" geometry do. not. exist. They're all "racy", and I prefer to think distance is more easily covered because the bike suits you, not because of how the manufacturer has decided it should be labelled.0
