If you had £1,000 for a frameset
DAZZ_A
Posts: 74
I'm in the market for a new frameset. I have a Shimano groupset sat here waiting to go on, so I've decided to start a winter build ready for the Spring next year.
I currently ride a 58cm Specialized Allez. I love my current frame but have always said it will eventually become my winter bike.
So I'm looking for a new, light (I love the hills, just as well really as I'm surrounded by them so lightness is the main objective), stiff (I'm 85kg and quite a powerful rider), and preferably Alluminium frame.
The purpose of this frame will be Sportives, long distance summer rides and generally my new pride and joy.
I would really appreciate some suggestions which I can research, opinions welcome.
I currently ride a 58cm Specialized Allez. I love my current frame but have always said it will eventually become my winter bike.
So I'm looking for a new, light (I love the hills, just as well really as I'm surrounded by them so lightness is the main objective), stiff (I'm 85kg and quite a powerful rider), and preferably Alluminium frame.
The purpose of this frame will be Sportives, long distance summer rides and generally my new pride and joy.
I would really appreciate some suggestions which I can research, opinions welcome.
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Comments
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CAAD10.English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg0
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CAAD 10 or its latest iteration the CAAD 12 should be available somewhere as a frameset for less £1000. The cannondale's probably have a slightly racier geometry than the Allez, but 58cm CAAD in both iterations is equivalent to the 58cm Allez.
There are the Canyon and Rose aluminium frames to consider as well.0 -
CAAD10, and 500 quid left towards wheels or a SISL crank.0
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Ditch the idea of a aluminium frameset. Buy a Specialized Tarmac Sport in the sale (I paid £1200 at the start of the year). Flog the bits you don't want on here or on ebay and buy a set of light wheels with the proceeds. You wont regret it. I didn't.
The CAAD10 is a great aluminium frame but its bone jarring compared to a half decent carbon frame. Its also a good bit heavier. My CAAD10 was 8.2KG at its lightest and the Tarmac Sport is 8.3KG as standard. As soon as I transferred all the bits from my CAAD10 to the Tarmac that brought the Tarmac down to 7.5KG.
The same could probably be said for other carbon framesets but this is the only one I have rode for any length of time.0 -
Caad10 (or 12)
Get some 25mm tyres and there be no bone jarring. Not that it's remotely bad on 23mm tyres.Insta: ATEnduranceCoaching
ABCC Cycling Coach0 -
As has been said a million times, high end aluminium will be better than a low end carbon frame which is why I guess you are looking at aluminium instead of carbon! But the other thing to consider is what geometry will actually fit you (each will have a different geometry)
In no particular order I would be looking at:
Specialized Allez E5 Smartweld - there are some 2015 models available in a 58cm.
Cannondale CAAD 10
Cannondale CAAD 12
Trek Emonda ALR - This has amazing write ups
Bowman Palace - designed for crits but apparently has a comfortable ride and the geometry is not that aggressive.
Then I would also look at the alum offerings from BMC, Canyon and Rose Bikes.
I think the RRP on all of there will be under £1k.Obsessed is a word used by the lazy to describe the dedicated!0 -
Caad10 (or 12)
Get some 25mm tyres and there be no bone jarring. Not that it's remotely bad on 23mm tyres.
25mm tyres (GP4000) don't work that well on a CAAD10 (The 12 may be different) particularly with shimano brake calipers. There isn't enough clearance so you get stones trapped between the tyre and the caliper. But even with 25mm tyres fitted its still pretty bad. Carbon bars and seatpost help to some extent but you are never going to make it as smooth as a carbon frame.0 -
As has been said a million times, high end aluminium will be better than a low end carbon frame which is why I guess you are looking at aluminium instead of carbon!
I'm interested what qualifies as low end carbon frame as I think its important to distinguish between low, mid and high end especially when you talk about the brands that we are all familiar with. Usually all that separates a £1500 bike from a £3000 bike is finishing kit. Quite often the frameset is the same. I rode two high end bikes (circa £6K) back to back with my own in summer and the differences between the three were not as great as the price tags suggested.0 -
As has been said a million times, high end aluminium will be better than a low end carbon frame which is why I guess you are looking at aluminium instead of carbon!
I'm interested what qualifies as low end carbon frame as I think its important to distinguish between low, mid and high end especially when you talk about the brands that we are all familiar with. Usually all that separates a £1500 bike from a £3000 bike is finishing kit. Quite often the frameset is the same. I rode two high end bikes (circa £6K) back to back with my own in summer and the differences between the three were not as great as the price tags suggested.
I agree - just because it's been said a million times doesn't make it any more correct. Bonkers argument if you ask me and as you state, just what is low end carbon fibre supposed to look like? Who sells it? And so on.0 -
Caad10 (or 12)
Get some 25mm tyres and there be no bone jarring. Not that it's remotely bad on 23mm tyres.
25mm tyres (GP4000) don't work that well on a CAAD10 (The 12 may be different) particularly with shimano brake calipers. There isn't enough clearance so you get stones trapped between the tyre and the caliper. But even with 25mm tyres fitted its still pretty bad. Carbon bars and seatpost help to some extent but you are never going to make it as smooth as a carbon frame.
GP4000 25mm may not work that well on a 10, but I've had no issues with Vittoria, Schwalbe One/Durano or Michelin SC 25mm, using either H Plus Son TB14 or Pacenti SL23 wide rims. Using a San Marco Aspide Carbon Saddle, and alloy KCNC finishing kit, I've done multiple double centuries on Irish roads without any comfort issues.0 -
Planet X RT90 on sale at £500. I'd have one of them for sure over alu.0
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As has been said a million times, high end aluminium will be better than a low end carbon frame
but is it true?0 -
I would have said that Canyon Ultimate CF, but looking on their site it seems they don't sell the frames separately any more?0
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It’s generally quoted because in most cases it true.
PaulMon, I would ask what makes a cheap carbon frameset better than high end aluminium? Just because its carbon doesn’t make it better!
I have ridden low end carbon frames as well as high end carbon frames and IMO there is a noticeable difference, in my opinion the framesets at the cheaper end of the market tend to be harsh, don’t ride well on broken roads, flex too much under load (climbing and sprinting) and can leave you beaten up after a couple of hours in the saddle, this may not be true of all cheaper carbon framesets but in my experience it is. A mid/higher end frame will usually be stiffer and more comfortable than the low end or cheaper carbon, this will be due to many different reasons which amongst them will include the type of carbon layup and the different materials used in the process.
If you don’t believe me then that’s fine, but I would urge you to go ride a £1500 carbon bike and then ride a £1500 CAAD10 or Trek Emonda ALR with a similar spec (wheels and tyres especially) and see for yourself what the difference is. There is a reason the CAAD series is so well regarded across the world.
I predominately ride aluminium bikes now because at my price point (sub £2k for a complete bike) I can get a more compliant comfortable and stiffer bike for my money than carbon, plus I can usually get a higher level of finishing kit as well, which is a win win in my book.
With regards to the finishing kit point, this may be true from some manufacturers however if you look at the bike you have suggested, the Tarmac Sport (£1500) it does have a different carbon used than the Tarmac Expert (£3000) the cheaper bike uses FACT 9R carbon and the Expert uses FACT 10R carbon, plus the fork on the Expert is also the S-Works fork and not the cheaper carbon fork used on the Sport.Obsessed is a word used by the lazy to describe the dedicated!0 -
I would have said that Canyon Ultimate CF, but looking on their site it seems they don't sell the frames separately any more?
Funny, they've gt frames in thier factory outlet when I search in french but not in the UK.0 -
Already been suggested, but Bowman Palace! £650 rrp.
I bought mine last October after riding high end carbon all of summer '14 with the intention of using it as a winter/training bike. I didn't get a new bike in the Spring! I ride it for commuting, training, sportives, multi day stage racing and a 24 hour endurance event and it has performed superbly throughout.
I honestly can't speak highly enough of it.
I ride it with 105/Ultegra mash up and Chris King/Archetype hand built wheels.
I love it.... if I haven't made that clear enough already!BikeRadar Communities Manager0 -
Already been suggested, but Bowman Palace! £650 rrp.
I bought mine last October after riding high end carbon all of summer '14 with the intention of using it as a winter/training bike. I didn't get a new bike in the Spring! I ride it for commuting, training, sportives, multi day stage racing and a 24 hour endurance event and it has performed superbly throughout.
I honestly can't speak highly enough of it.
I ride it with 105/Ultegra mash up and Chris King/Archetype hand built wheels.
I love it.... if I haven't made that clear enough already!
That good huh?
I have read the reviews and they all say this is a great frameset but I am yet to see one in the flesh.
What's the finish like on it, any pics?
Any more info on the ride and handling?
Cheers
JDObsessed is a word used by the lazy to describe the dedicated!0 -
It’s generally quoted because in most cases it true.If you don’t believe me then that’s fine, but I would urge you to go ride a £1500 carbon bike and then ride a £1500 CAAD10 or Trek Emonda ALR with a similar spec (wheels and tyres especially) and see for yourself what the difference is. There is a reason the CAAD series is so well regarded across the world.
I've done this. In fact the CAAD 10 I had would have probably retailed at around £3K. I did thousands of miles on it including up and down the Alps, The Fred and numerous other club rides so I think I'm in a pretty good position to comment on a comparison between the CAAD10 and a "low end" carbon frame.
I really liked the CAAD I thought it was ace but that's because I didn't know any different. God I even setup a blog called CAADVentures. The reason I road a CAAD10 is because 3 years ago I bought a road bike after spending lots of time researching and reading how a "top end" aluminium frame is better than a "low end" carbon one. I then bought another CAAD10 frameset and kitted it out with mid to high end components and at that point I thought I'd reach the pinnacle of aluminium bikes.
Then prior to riding the Paris-Roubaix challenge this year I decided to test ride a "low end" carbon bike. If you can be bothered you can read what I thought about that here but trust me the low end carbon bike is a better bike than the high end aluminium in just about every way.
http://www.moonigan.co.uk/index.php/2015/01/16/specialized-tarmac-2015-first-ride-on-carbon/0 -
Already been suggested, but Bowman Palace! £650 rrp.
I bought mine last October after riding high end carbon all of summer '14 with the intention of using it as a winter/training bike. I didn't get a new bike in the Spring! I ride it for commuting, training, sportives, multi day stage racing and a 24 hour endurance event and it has performed superbly throughout.
I honestly can't speak highly enough of it.
I ride it with 105/Ultegra mash up and Chris King/Archetype hand built wheels.
I love it.... if I haven't made that clear enough already!
That good huh?
I have read the reviews and they all say this is a great frameset but I am yet to see one in the flesh.
What's the finish like on it, any pics?
Any more info on the ride and handling?
Cheers
JD
Yep!
Finish is a tough anodised black, a couple of criticisms could be the welding at the joints aren't exactly pretty, although this doesn't really bother me.
The teal/celeste blue contrast works really well, especially on the inside of the (carbon) forks.
Longer rides (150km+) the stiff nature of the bike does begin to have an impact and you do feel a bit sore, but after that sort of distance you'd feel a bit sore on any bike.
It is super stiff, responsive and a shorter wheel base makes handling very quick. It was, after all, designed as a crit racer.
It states you can get away with 28mm tires, but I would be very sceptical of that as I run 25mm Vittoria Open Corsa and the clearance on the rear end is minimal to none!
Will get some pictures up soon.BikeRadar Communities Manager0 -
Kinesis Aithein?0
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Aithein has a rider weigh limit of 88kg. Doesn't instil me with confidence about its stiffness...English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg0
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Surprisingly good.
Not that comfy with23mm tyres though.0 -
You could pick up a mighty fine secondhand frame for that price,0
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Sigma Sport have a 58cm specialized Allez smartweld frame in for £640.
It looks great in bare aluminium but I've only seen painted frames for sale. This one is black on balck which is pretty nice too.0 -
I have an aluminium Kinesis Aithein and a 'Cheap' Giant 2013 TCR carbon bike.
Both Frameset weights are identical.
Both were similar in price.
Both near identical in geometery.
Both have Shimano Ultergra wheelsets (which btw are amazing wheels for the money)
I have put many miles in on both framesets.
After spending all summer on the Aithein I then swapped to the Giant. The Giant is noticeably plusher in comparison,
When i got back to using the Giant it was like "WOW" like a Rolls Royce against a Ford, much more comfortable feeling (not that the Aithein is uncomfortable)
But If I could only have one it would be the Aithein, it is stiffer, climbs better, feel more connected to the road, feels more agile, like a race bike should be.
My gut feeling is that cheaper carbon bikes will feel more 'comfortable' due to the type of carbon used, they have to use more of it, and use more fillers/ resins, making it slightly heavier but in turn leads less stiffness and absorbing more vibration.0 -
Aithein has a rider weigh limit of 88kg. Doesn't instil me with confidence about its stiffness...
What has rider weight limit got to do with stiffness?
The Aithein is very stiff, I am a pretty strong rider/ climber and there is no stiffness issue at all, which is why I like it so much.0 -
Meh. Comfort is a bit subjective, I think. I prefer the feel of well-sorted aluminium, road buzz and all. It's true carbon frames are a little more cosseting, but that only matters if that's what you want. I tried a stock SuperSix and a stock CAAD10 before purchasing. The CAAD is less cushioned, sure, but it feels more alive on the road. Having a few hundred extra for build kit was the icing on the cake.
I also had the good fortune to try an HiMod SS Evo. At that point, I couldn't deny there was something in the whole carbon thing. The added stiffness and weight loss brought back the snap and liveliness and then some, whilst blunting only the worst of the road. It also cost twice as much for a bare frame as my sub 7kg CAAD did all in.
It's fair to say lower end carbon is getting better, and continues to improve. Back when it meant the like of a PX Pro Carbon, there was no comparison.0 -
Aithein has a rider weigh limit of 88kg. Doesn't instil me with confidence about its stiffness...
What has rider weight limit got to do with stiffness?
The Aithein is very stiff, I am a pretty strong rider/ climber and there is no stiffness issue at all, which is why I like it so much.
Wheels with low rider weight limits flex far more than those without, so it stands to reason that frames would suffer the same fate. I'm happy you like your bike and it does what it's supposed to, but that doesn't make it the best choice.English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg0 -
The purpose of this frame will be Sportives, long distance summer rides and generally my new pride and joy.
I know some really good top end alu frames out there can be comfortable but aluminium is generally harsher than carbon or steel. If sportives and long distance is your main type of riding I would look at getting something like a Roubaix frame or similar. Racing is not your aim so why get a tarmac or any other bikewith an aggressive race geometry? I would even suggest a good quality Titanium frame would offer more comfortable hours in the saddle.0
