Zone 2 Heart Rate Training query
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I've just been reading about Zone 2 training. I'm in my late 50s and cycle quite a lot, but am not very fit or fast, and this looks like a good way to improve my base fitness. I understand that a Zone 2 ride is done at 65% to 75% of your max Heart Rate. Some of my riding by chance currently averages out at around this level, but obviously has high peaks where I have put in efforts on the hills.
Am I right in thinking that the idea of Zone 2 training is to stay at 65%/75% HR for the whole ride, so even on hills where your HR would normally increase, you should really slow down and go into even lower gears than usual to try and keep your HR down at 65%75% of your max?
Am I right in thinking that the idea of Zone 2 training is to stay at 65%/75% HR for the whole ride, so even on hills where your HR would normally increase, you should really slow down and go into even lower gears than usual to try and keep your HR down at 65%75% of your max?
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Technically yes, but as long as you are averaging somewhere near your target HR range, then I wouldn't worry.0
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+1 for what Imposter said.
Don't be embarrassed to back off on the climbs to stay in Z2, though gravity often forces a necessity for a greater effort, but equally don't be afraid to push on, on the flat to stay in mid / top Z2. Heading in to winter and as a sweeping generalisation doing these kind of rides for 6-8 hours per week for the next 4-6 weeks, most riders will find their speed on the flat will have increased for the same Av. HR.
But what I have said only echoes what you have already read.Live to ski
Ski to live0 -
Thanks for the responses. I had been trying to improve my hill climbing recently by doing more of it and trying to keep up a good cadence on the hills but I seem to be getting more tired rather than getting fitter. So now I think I will try and do some rides with a more constant HR in Zone 2 or even Zone 1 even if it means going slower than I already do on the hills, to try and keep my HR low.
As winter is coming I think I'll also set-up the turbo. If I was to do 3 or 4 one hour turbo sessions a week at Zone 2 level on the turbo, do you think that would help me get a better level of base fitness?0 -
Explained quite well here : http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/article/heart-rate-monitor-training-for-cyclists-28838/0
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Long hills at critical power is what you need to do to avoid fatigue. Your critical power is the power you sustain without fading. You are riding to hard and getting tired then riding more. More recovery and easy of your base miles rides will give you more benefit with maybe one ride a week of hard intervals. Let your body recover though.
My zone 2 rides I describe as slow commutes at 150w to 160w average and 15 to 16 mph.slow down.http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.0 -
Thanks but I don't have a power meter, so what would critical power relate to as regard Heart Rate zones?Long hills at critical power is what you need to do to avoid fatigue. Your critical power is the power you sustain without fading. You are riding to hard and getting tired then riding more. More recovery and easy of your base miles rides will give you more benefit with maybe one ride a week of hard intervals. Let your body recover though.
My zone 2 rides I describe as slow commutes at 150w to 160w average and 15 to 16 mph.slow down.0 -
I think it's ok to go out of the zone a little bit, but repeatedly pushing on hills will change the type of session. Indeed, if you push on all the hills quite a bit, and use descents to recover, your av HR might be ok at the end, but your ride will have been more of an 'interval' session.
Without being a slave to numbers, just make sure you keep in mind what the aim is.0 -
To find your critical power with or without a power meter requires you to maintain a steady effort and find the effort you can sustain for 20 minutes without fading. Once you know your heart rate at that effort you can ride at around that heart rate for shorter intervals without inducing fatigue so quickly. Or ride below it. A zone 2 ride with short hill efforts no higher than critical power will be zone 2.
As I said it the effort you can sustain without fading. No power meter needed. Don't ride at that all the time or that become a really intense ride.http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.0 -
Thanks, I guess it's probably easier to keep to Zone 2 if I avoid routes with steep hills, as when I get to sections of over 10% I would find it difficult to get up the hill without my HR going high, even in low gears.I think it's ok to go out of the zone a little bit, but repeatedly pushing on hills will change the type of session. Indeed, if you push on all the hills quite a bit, and use descents to recover, your av HR might be ok at the end, but your ride will have been more of an 'interval' session.
Without being a slave to numbers, just make sure you keep in mind what the aim is.
I'll also try to do some of the sessions on the turbo, but I'll have to see if I can motivate myself enough to manage to complete hour turbo sessions at Zone 2.0 -
Junior cassettes help and it is possible to ride slowly up a 10% gradient at lower ower outputs. This is where a power meter becomes really helpful.
Spin alot you can control your power output better.http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.0 -
My base rides I tend to do at z2 on the flat and z4 on the hills, i'm in the chilterns so think I would need to gear down to stay in z2 on the hills. I also do turbo time at z2 in front of the TV, it's dull. I started off following the Britich Cycling heart rate zones but have switched to Friels system which makes more sense to me than following maximum.0
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Why? What are you achieving by cycling in zone 2 and what are you trying to achieve by limiting your hr on a hill? You're over thinking this, just go out and ride, hard, there's no substitute for hard work.0
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Why? What are you achieving by cycling in zone 2 and what are you trying to achieve by limiting your hr on a hill? You're over thinking this, just go out and ride, hard, there's no substitute for hard work.
Thats the mistake I was making until I started doing proper z2 rides. It meant I was fresher for my hard days so got more out of them. Knocked 2.5 minutes off my 10 mile TT times and 7.5 off my 25.Insta: ATEnduranceCoaching
ABCC Cycling Coach0 -
@ OP. Keep the zone 2 rides under 2 hours as you get diminishing returns after this period. If you drop below don't accelerate hard to get back into your zone as you'll be using your fast twitch muscles and will take 10-15 minutes to revert back to the intended use of your slow muscle group which defeats the object of the ride.
Dont get hung up on average heart rate as that is not a true representation and just aim to stay in the zone as much as possible.
Enjoy!“Give a man a fish and feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime. Teach a man to cycle and he will realize fishing is stupid and boring”
Desmond Tutu0 -
I agree that zone 2 rides, done correctly, will ultimately make you faster.@ OP. Keep the zone 2 rides under 2 hours as you get diminishing returns after this period.
I was recently told this at a consultation, but I didn't ask why - so why do returns diminish after 2 hours?
The benefits are less impactive and will mean you are more tired for your quality interval/hard sessions. If I do a long z2 ride that replaces my hard/interval session.
That said, my z2 rides aren't easy.
This is turning in to the 'how do I get faster' thread. Sorry. I'll shut up!Insta: ATEnduranceCoaching
ABCC Cycling Coach0 -
I agree that zone 2 rides, done correctly, will ultimately make you faster.@ OP. Keep the zone 2 rides under 2 hours as you get diminishing returns after this period.
I was recently told this at a consultation, but I didn't ask why - so why do returns diminish after 2 hours?
The benefits are less impactive and will mean you are more tired for your quality interval/hard sessions. If I do a long z2 ride that replaces my hard/interval session.
That said, my z2 rides aren't easy.
This is turning in to the 'how do I get faster' thread. Sorry. I'll shut up!
I'm glad it's not just me who finds Z2 rides an effort!
I'm blown away with my current workload being much higher but with a much more intelligent approach supported by a more informed diet both in terms of calorie breakdown and consumption and I'm still feeling strong for every ride.“Give a man a fish and feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime. Teach a man to cycle and he will realize fishing is stupid and boring”
Desmond Tutu0 -
Yeah my zone 2 rides really wear the legs out by the end which is in contrast to the lungs on the interval sessions.
I thought zone 2 rides were meant to be over 3 hours to get the benefit so i'm doing it all wrong I think lol. So you can build a base even if its an hour zone 2 ride?0 -
Yeah my zone 2 rides really wear the legs out by the end which is in contrast to the lungs on the interval sessions.
I thought zone 2 rides were meant to be over 3 hours to get the benefit so i'm doing it all wrong I think lol. So you can build a base even if its an hour zone 2 ride?
If you have the time then go for it!
My z2 HR is now at a power output that most calculation methods would call tempo. It's quite hard!Insta: ATEnduranceCoaching
ABCC Cycling Coach0 -
Yeah my zone 2 rides really wear the legs out by the end which is in contrast to the lungs on the interval sessions.
I thought zone 2 rides were meant to be over 3 hours to get the benefit so i'm doing it all wrong I think lol. So you can build a base even if its an hour zone 2 ride?
The optimum time for z2 is between 1-2 hours with diminishing returns thereafter? You limit your fatigue and maximises the gains with the ability to increase the number of sessions with a more informed approach rather than intensity and sheer ride length. Correctly setting your zones is another aspect.
Try it and see how you go? I'm doing around 6 hours a week purely in Zone 2, one threshold session and a unstructured ride on a Sunday.“Give a man a fish and feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime. Teach a man to cycle and he will realize fishing is stupid and boring”
Desmond Tutu0 -
This is reassuring as I only train up to 8 hours a week with a few runs thrown in.0
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Why? What are you achieving by cycling in zone 2 and what are you trying to achieve by limiting your hr on a hill? You're over thinking this, just go out and ride, hard, there's no substitute for hard work.
Thats the mistake I was making until I started doing proper z2 rides. It meant I was fresher for my hard days so got more out of them. Knocked 2.5 minutes off my 10 mile TT times and 7.5 off my 25.
Nap - read your stuff on the go faster thread, impressive improvements, well done. Which definition of zones are you working with ie Strava have zones 1-5 but I've seen others (BC?) with six zones. According to Strava's guesstimate my Z2 is 115-152 bpm which seems to me to be rather wide when compared with you talking about a range of 10bpm when riding in your Z2 .
Cheers...0 -
I'd get yourself tested properly and get your zones determined as that's a massive Z2. :shock:
My Z2 is 10 heart beats wide. It's a royal pain keeping in there but it's becoming easier the more I ride.“Give a man a fish and feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime. Teach a man to cycle and he will realize fishing is stupid and boring”
Desmond Tutu0 -
I understand Zone 2 is 65% to 75% of max HR. Therefore if your Zone 2 minimum (65%) is 115, your maximum HR must be about 177, and therefore your Zone 2 maximum (75%) would only be 133 rather than 152.Why? What are you achieving by cycling in zone 2 and what are you trying to achieve by limiting your hr on a hill? You're over thinking this, just go out and ride, hard, there's no substitute for hard work.
Thats the mistake I was making until I started doing proper z2 rides. It meant I was fresher for my hard days so got more out of them. Knocked 2.5 minutes off my 10 mile TT times and 7.5 off my 25.
Nap - read your stuff on the go faster thread, impressive improvements, well done. Which definition of zones are you working with ie Strava have zones 1-5 but I've seen others (BC?) with six zones. According to Strava's guesstimate my Z2 is 115-152 bpm which seems to me to be rather wide when compared with you talking about a range of 10bpm when riding in your Z2 .
Cheers...0 -
I understand Zone 2 is 65% to 75% of max HR. Therefore if your Zone 2 minimum (65%) is 115, your maximum HR must be about 177, and therefore your Zone 2 maximum (75%) would only be 133 rather than 152.Why? What are you achieving by cycling in zone 2 and what are you trying to achieve by limiting your hr on a hill? You're over thinking this, just go out and ride, hard, there's no substitute for hard work.
Thats the mistake I was making until I started doing proper z2 rides. It meant I was fresher for my hard days so got more out of them. Knocked 2.5 minutes off my 10 mile TT times and 7.5 off my 25.
Nap - read your stuff on the go faster thread, impressive improvements, well done. Which definition of zones are you working with ie Strava have zones 1-5 but I've seen others (BC?) with six zones. According to Strava's guesstimate my Z2 is 115-152 bpm which seems to me to be rather wide when compared with you talking about a range of 10bpm when riding in your Z2 .
Cheers...
My zones are set through lab style (gas exchange) testing. They were a fair way out using the methods listed above. Which is why I was struggling. It's a VERY accurate zone based on my tested aerobic threshold. FWIW my current z2 is 77-82% of my tested max HR. When I first saw Garry it was 68-73%.Insta: ATEnduranceCoaching
ABCC Cycling Coach0 -
NapoleonD wrote:[url=<span class= wrote:ForumNewbie[/url]"]
I understand Zone 2 is 65% to 75% of max HR. Therefore if your Zone 2 minimum (65%) is 115, your maximum HR must be about 177, and therefore your Zone 2 maximum (75%) would only be 133 rather than 152.[url=<span class= wrote:Pollys Bott[/url]"][url=<span class= wrote:NapoleonD[/url]"][url=<span class= wrote:chrisw12[/url]"]Why? What are you achieving by cycling in zone 2 and what are you trying to achieve by limiting your hr on a hill? You're over thinking this, just go out and ride, hard, there's no substitute for hard work.
Thats the mistake I was making until I started doing proper z2 rides. It meant I was fresher for my hard days so got more out of them. Knocked 2.5 minutes off my 10 mile TT times and 7.5 off my 25.
Nap - read your stuff on the go faster thread, impressive improvements, well done. Which definition of zones are you working with ie Strava have zones 1-5 but I've seen others (BC?) with six zones. According to Strava's guesstimate my Z2 is 115-152 bpm which seems to me to be rather wide when compared with you talking about a range of 10bpm when riding in your Z2 .
Cheers...
My zones are set through lab style (gas exchange) testing. They were a fair way out using the methods listed above. Which is why I was struggling. It's a VERY accurate zone based on my tested aerobic threshold. FWIW my current z2 is 77-82% of my tested max HR. When I first saw Garry it was 68-73%.
Roger that, thanks. Confirms what I thought about Z2 meaning different things to different people. Wattbike, for example, list eight zones on their website; Strava use five and the article in BR lists six. Nap's Z2 is 77-82%, Wattbike / BR article say 65-75%, Strava say mine is 59-78%... hmmm..!
If I work on the more general Z2 definition of it being 65-75% MHR then mine would be 127-146 (max HR 195) which still gives a range twice the size of Slowmart / Joe2008. Did you both do gas exchange testing like NapD?0 -
@polly
Yes, I use the same company as Nap, Sportstest. Highly recommended.
This winter was always about building a decent base and I wanted a more informed approach to my training as I wasn't confident that I had correctly set my zones and wanted to avoid a wasted or diminished outcome.“Give a man a fish and feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime. Teach a man to cycle and he will realize fishing is stupid and boring”
Desmond Tutu0 -
My Z2 is 10 heart beats wide. It's a royal pain keeping in there but it's becoming easier the more I ride.
Yep, get yourself tested. Following a test, mine is also 10 beats wide: 118 -128.
Funnily enough I was at Loughborough Uni on Tuesday doing a max test including blood lactate & gas testing... should be getting the results in a few weeks, am being a lab rat for some students who are testing breakfast shakes.
Just curious:
1) Joe, if your Z2 is a range of 118-128 bpm is that 77-82% of your MHR like Nap's?
2) Slowmart, how about yours?0 -
The percentage metric is a broad brush only and the correct zones are specific to individuals and then those effective zones move according to the fitness levels of the individual.“Give a man a fish and feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime. Teach a man to cycle and he will realize fishing is stupid and boring”
Desmond Tutu0 -
This is the important bit. Everyone's 'z2' is different.The percentage metric is a broad brush only and the correct zones are specific to individuals and then those effective zones move according to the fitness levels of the individual.Insta: ATEnduranceCoaching
ABCC Cycling Coach0 -
All clearer now, thanks chaps...0
