High quality, 3 season jacket - Ashmei or Rapha
bsharp77
Posts: 533
Hi guys,
Im after a really high quality jacket that I can use most of the year round that will be warm, breathable and offer some waterproofing if possible. I also would prefer a bright colour - ill not get into the argument, but I'm not wearing a black jacket in the murky evenings no matter what!
I commute 5 days a week and head out for a couple of big rides at the weekend all year round, so it will get really well used.
After a lot of searching I've narrowed it down to:
Ashmei Sofshell Jacket
Rapha Hardshell Jacket
They are both expensive jackets, but I think I can justify it due to the amount of use it will get. Ive found with most cycling clothing that you really do get what you pay for (in most cases), so will pay that bit extra for a fit and forget jacket that will do me most of the year.
Just wondering if anyone has tried both of the above, or has any other jackets that I may have overlooked (never even heard of Asmei until last week!).
Thanks a lot.
Im after a really high quality jacket that I can use most of the year round that will be warm, breathable and offer some waterproofing if possible. I also would prefer a bright colour - ill not get into the argument, but I'm not wearing a black jacket in the murky evenings no matter what!
I commute 5 days a week and head out for a couple of big rides at the weekend all year round, so it will get really well used.
After a lot of searching I've narrowed it down to:
Ashmei Sofshell Jacket
Rapha Hardshell Jacket
They are both expensive jackets, but I think I can justify it due to the amount of use it will get. Ive found with most cycling clothing that you really do get what you pay for (in most cases), so will pay that bit extra for a fit and forget jacket that will do me most of the year.
Just wondering if anyone has tried both of the above, or has any other jackets that I may have overlooked (never even heard of Asmei until last week!).
Thanks a lot.
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Comments
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The Rapha Hardshell is great but it's not a three season jacket; it's for the worst winter weather. The proteam jacket's more suited for three season use as it can be paired with different base layers as the temp changes.0
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Castelli alpha?0
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The Rapha Pro Team Jacket is a 3 season jacket and a very useful bit of kit. Mine last year was used pretty much in all weather, I've only used it once this Autumn when I knew I would be going at a slow tempo.
I run cold, but with the right base layers the pro team jacket and the appropriate base layer was really all I needed. When the heavens open I have a seperate waterproof jacket, but in showers and drissle the pro team jacket is fine.
I don't have the hardshell, but reading reviews on here last year, it is highly regarded but only in the foulest of conditions. I wouldn't see it as a 3 season jacket thats for sure.0 -
Thanks for that guys - very helpful. I was doubting if the pro team jacket would be warm enough, but sounds like it is. Just wondering if you have the standard pro team jacket, or the newer softshell version?
The Ashmei looks similar in spec (and price) to the pro team - and to my eye is a better looking jacket.
Ive yet to find anyone who has actually tried one, although road.cc did give it a good write up....decisions decisions!0 -
Parentini Mossa, Or Mossa.2 if you feel the cold
http://parentinitestteam.com/2015/09/15/new-winter-kit-2015-introducing-the-mossa-2/0 -
I have this one but from last year, in blue.
http://www.rapha.cc/gb/en/shop/pro-team-jacket/product/PJC02
There is limited sizing of the Pro Team Softshell. To be honest I always wondered if there really was a need for it.
It is a Pro Team fit, I'm about 72kgs and 5ft 8, I'm in a medium. This size allows for plenty of room for a nice thick wooly base layer. There is a message on the website to say the sizing has changed since I bought mine. (I'm a small in the Rapha Classic Range)
For very cold dry rides I have the Rapha Winter Jersey, unfortunately this year they have so far only released a collection of long sleeve jerseys and long sleeve brevet jersey. They still have the Sky Winter Training Jersey in stock in multiple sizes. Again this is another top quality item for winter riding. It has a nice big pocket at the back and an easy to reach zip pocket as well. If you already have a decent lightweight waterproof this might be a good option. I wore mine last night, completely unnecessary, but I just happen to like it!
http://www.rapha.cc/gb/en/shop/team-sky-training-winter-jersey/product/KWJ01
There are also cheaper options out there that are just as good. I have others I use for riding offroad in the winter and the performance is up there with the Rapha gear. That said for coffee shop runs its always the Rapha Pro Team I opt for (I'm a poser I know!!)
If your concern about the Pro Team is just not being warm enough, as already mentioned, a key item is the baselayer. For winter rides I go for a merino wool Bontrager base layer, it is expensive, but worth it. At the moment I'm still using a normal compression style baselayer and move to the warmer when when the temperature really drops. (My current riding is every other evening at approx 8pm, the temperature isn't too cold but there has been a chilly wind this week)
And lastly, sorry about the length of message, but if my hands, feet and head are warm generally my core stays warm. If you haven't already invested in warm items to protect the extremeties, I would advise spending good money to keep these warm before investing in the jacket.0 -
I tried the Mossa on the other day, its a good shout. Again be careful on sizing with it, I tried a medium on and it was too big for me. I'm tempted by the 2015 Flouro Mossa, have been offered old stock at a good price. From a purely sylistic point of view, and of course this is only my opinion, I personally don't feel its up there with the Rapha Pro Team Jacket. Again only subjective but if you happened to be carrying any spare weight the Mossa will show it. I'm pretty sure it will perform just as good, but like I said in my other post, I'm a poser and think the Rapha is good looking jacket that also performs excellently.
I'm also not sure about the Mossa 2 though, here's a link to a write up on the Mossa 2...From that write up it seems to indicate its possibly not suitable for hard rides in the Autumn and Spring.
http://parentinitestteam.com/2015/09/15/new-winter-kit-2015-introducing-the-mossa-2/
A link to the Parenti website showing the Mossa.
http://www.parentini.com/pagina.php?IDmenu=180&IDarticolo=6290 -
Thanks a lot guys, really helpful.
The problem with the Rapha Pro team jacket is the colours - really terrible selection from my point of view...at least the softshell version has a nice red option.
The Mossa.2 looks really great (especially in orange!) - as you say, it may be too warm for high tempo stuff, but could be a great jacket for the bitter winter days when putting in base miles....although I guess that goes off the list of being 3 season compatible! Ill discount the original Mossa as I just don't like the very short front design - I know its shaped to use on the bike, but its just not for me.
W00dster - where are you getting the deal on Parentini stuff? If I could get the Mossa.2 at a good price, id be seriously tempted.0 -
Thanks a lot guys, really helpful.
The problem with the Rapha Pro team jacket is the colours - really terrible selection from my point of view...at least the softshell version has a nice red option.
The Mossa.2 looks really great (especially in orange!) - as you say, it may be too warm for high tempo stuff, but could be a great jacket for the bitter winter days when putting in base miles....although I guess that goes off the list of being 3 season compatible! Ill discount the original Mossa as I just don't like the very short front design - I know its shaped to use on the bike, but its just not for me.
W00dster - where are you getting the deal on Parentini stuff? If I could get the Mossa.2 at a good price, id be seriously tempted.
The Mossa.2 is designed exactly for that type of riding. For high tempo, 3 season riding you need to opt for the Mossa. The short front, long back is designed to fit in a low, aggressive position, as the jacket is intended for racing and hard training – building up heat through hard work is actually what keeps you warm. You only need a good baselayer for it to work, even down to 0 degrees.0 -
Thanks a lot guys, really helpful.
The problem with the Rapha Pro team jacket is the colours - really terrible selection from my point of view...at least the softshell version has a nice red option.
The Mossa.2 looks really great (especially in orange!) - as you say, it may be too warm for high tempo stuff, but could be a great jacket for the bitter winter days when putting in base miles....although I guess that goes off the list of being 3 season compatible! Ill discount the original Mossa as I just don't like the very short front design - I know its shaped to use on the bike, but its just not for me.
W00dster - where are you getting the deal on Parentini stuff? If I could get the Mossa.2 at a good price, id be seriously tempted.
The Mossa.2 is designed exactly for that type of riding. For high tempo, 3 season riding you need to opt for the Mossa. The short front, long back is designed to fit in a low, aggressive position, as the jacket is intended for racing and hard training – building up heat through hard work is actually what keeps you warm. You only need a good baselayer for it to work, even down to 0 degrees.
PTest - which baselayer would you recommend with the Mossa? I know in the past you have mentioned it works best with a Polypropelene (sp?) base, but do you have any specific recommendations? The Helly Hanson base layers for example? And would these reletively thin baselayers keep you warm enough?
Thanks.0 -
Thanks a lot guys, really helpful.
The problem with the Rapha Pro team jacket is the colours - really terrible selection from my point of view...at least the softshell version has a nice red option.
The Mossa.2 looks really great (especially in orange!) - as you say, it may be too warm for high tempo stuff, but could be a great jacket for the bitter winter days when putting in base miles....although I guess that goes off the list of being 3 season compatible! Ill discount the original Mossa as I just don't like the very short front design - I know its shaped to use on the bike, but its just not for me.
W00dster - where are you getting the deal on Parentini stuff? If I could get the Mossa.2 at a good price, id be seriously tempted.
The Mossa.2 is designed exactly for that type of riding. For high tempo, 3 season riding you need to opt for the Mossa. The short front, long back is designed to fit in a low, aggressive position, as the jacket is intended for racing and hard training – building up heat through hard work is actually what keeps you warm. You only need a good baselayer for it to work, even down to 0 degrees.
PTest - which baselayer would you recommend with the Mossa? I know in the past you have mentioned it works best with a Polypropelene (sp?) base, but do you have any specific recommendations? The Helly Hanson base layers for example? And would these reletively thin baselayers keep you warm enough?
Thanks.
the Parentini U510A long sleeves or U312A S/S they are one size , careful though wash in cold water only. i ruined one. but the do work very well. also X Bionic ones work but pricey.0 -
Every jacket thread seems to get turned into a Parentini love fest by the tag team of PTestTeam and clincher3, interesting :roll:0
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3 season choices are easy. Castelli Alpha jacket is too warm for at least 1 of the seasons. Castelli jersey is, IMO, suitable for all 3, may be a tad cold in the deepest winter. Rapha Pro team probably a good overall choice.
For me the Gabba and Mossa et al are not insulators. The Mossa 2 does look a better bet in that regard.My blog: http://www.roubaixcycling.cc (kit reviews and other musings)
https://twitter.com/roubaixcc
Facebook? No. Just say no.0 -
TBH. I don't remember the last year we had 4 proper seasons. IMO you need a selection of clothes and dress according to the temperature rather than the time of year!
Much like I don't have a summer and winter bike rather a wet/dry bike.0 -
3 season choices are easy. Castelli Alpha jacket is too warm for at least 1 of the seasons. Castelli jersey is, IMO, suitable for all 3, may be a tad cold in the deepest winter. Rapha Pro team probably a good overall choice.
For me the Gabba and Mossa et al are not insulators. The Mossa 2 does look a better bet in that regard.
Still massively unconvinced by my alpha jersey...uncomfortable against the skin...not very breathable and smells after one ride (i.e. not great for multiple daily commutes...as you would expect from a jersey and not a jacket I suppose)
It's probably because I run hot tbh...might be better when it gets a bit colder. Love the pro team jacket myself but again, that'd be at best a one season jacket for me as it's too wam.
So depends on how hot the OP runs I think0 -
3 season choices are easy. Castelli Alpha jacket is too warm for at least 1 of the seasons. Castelli jersey is, IMO, suitable for all 3, may be a tad cold in the deepest winter. Rapha Pro team probably a good overall choice.
For me the Gabba and Mossa et al are not insulators. The Mossa 2 does look a better bet in that regard.
Still massively unconvinced by my alpha jersey...uncomfortable against the skin...not very breathable and smells after one ride (i.e. not great for multiple daily commutes...as you would expect from a jersey and not a jacket I suppose)
It's probably because I run hot tbh...might be better when it gets a bit colder. Love the pro team jacket myself but again, that'd be at best a one season jacket for me as it's too wam.
So depends on how hot the OP runs I think
It's weird, I wore mine, sans baselayer, on a 20 mile errand this morning. Cold starting off, warmish later. Felt like wearing nothing at all. And doesn't smell
My blog: http://www.roubaixcycling.cc (kit reviews and other musings)
https://twitter.com/roubaixcc
Facebook? No. Just say no.0 -
I've been using, and recommend, the Rapha Classic Wind Jacket for all sorts of conditions. Not a fan of the current colour range (mine is orange) but they're not black at least!
http://www.rapha.cc/gb/en/shop/classic-wind-jacket/product/STJ12?googlemerchfeed=true0 -
Thanks for all the replies guys.
I do appreciate its maybe unrealistic to expect one jacket to cover the gamut of weather we get here.
The Rapha pro team jacket does seem like the best solution, as I can change base layers to suit the conditions, however the colour choices are a massive sticking point.
The Mossa.2 might be a good choice for the winter ahead - ill be looking into it a bit more closely.
The outlier is the Ashmei, which I can get very little real world feedback on - if it was similar in performance to the Rapha pro, i would go for it, as I love the design and colour.0 -
3 season choices are easy. Castelli Alpha jacket is too warm for at least 1 of the seasons. Castelli jersey is, IMO, suitable for all 3, may be a tad cold in the deepest winter. Rapha Pro team probably a good overall choice.
For me the Gabba and Mossa et al are not insulators. The Mossa 2 does look a better bet in that regard.
Still massively unconvinced by my alpha jersey...uncomfortable against the skin...not very breathable and smells after one ride (i.e. not great for multiple daily commutes...as you would expect from a jersey and not a jacket I suppose)
It's probably because I run hot tbh...might be better when it gets a bit colder. Love the pro team jacket myself but again, that'd be at best a one season jacket for me as it's too wam.
So depends on how hot the OP runs I think
It's weird, I wore mine, sans baselayer, on a 20 mile errand this morning. Cold starting off, warmish later. Felt like wearing nothing at all. And doesn't smell
Work harder you goddamn pootler :P 0 -
Thanks a lot guys, really helpful.
The problem with the Rapha Pro team jacket is the colours - really terrible selection from my point of view...at least the softshell version has a nice red option.
The Mossa.2 looks really great (especially in orange!) - as you say, it may be too warm for high tempo stuff, but could be a great jacket for the bitter winter days when putting in base miles....although I guess that goes off the list of being 3 season compatible! Ill discount the original Mossa as I just don't like the very short front design - I know its shaped to use on the bike, but its just not for me.
W00dster - where are you getting the deal on Parentini stuff? If I could get the Mossa.2 at a good price, id be seriously tempted.
The Mossa.2 is designed exactly for that type of riding. For high tempo, 3 season riding you need to opt for the Mossa. The short front, long back is designed to fit in a low, aggressive position, as the jacket is intended for racing and hard training – building up heat through hard work is actually what keeps you warm. You only need a good baselayer for it to work, even down to 0 degrees.
PTest - which baselayer would you recommend with the Mossa? I know in the past you have mentioned it works best with a Polypropelene (sp?) base, but do you have any specific recommendations? The Helly Hanson base layers for example? And would these reletively thin baselayers keep you warm enough?
Thanks.
On a mild day I use a Parentini long sleeve base layer with my Mossa. On colder days, I use a Helly Hansen laminate baselayer - it uses a polypropolene inner with a merino outer laminate, so does add a nice warmer feel.
http://shop.hellyhansen.com/gb/item/hhwarm-freeze-1-2-zip-48852/?t_type=src&COLOR=576%20DEEP%20STEEL&t_type=cat You have to make sure you get the sizing right though - it needs to be skin tight so it will fit under a skin tight Mossa!
As Benderobot mentions though the Mossa isn't an insulator – it relies on you working up your own warmth, the fabric then does a good job of keeping it inside to regulate your temperature.0 -
it relies on you working up your own warmth, the fabric then does a good job of keeping it inside to regulate your temperature.
Like the Pro Team Jacket.0 -
it relies on you working up your own warmth, the fabric then does a good job of keeping it inside to regulate your temperature.
Like the Pro Team Jacket.
Yep. There are a few jackets that work on the same principle - choice depends on aesthetics, fit and cost!0 -
Would you be able to comment about stopping to repair punctures and such in winter? If it's anything like Gabba, it would, probably, become wet and cold very fast in lower temperatures like below +5C?0
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Would you be able to comment about stopping to repair punctures and such in winter? If it's anything like Gabba, it would, probably, become wet and cold very fast in lower temperatures like below +5C?
You're right, when you stop, and are not producing your own heat, you will cool down. It is more waterproof however, so you won't get as wet.
I wouldn't wear the Mossa on a social or cafe ride. I use it for hard training rides with no stops. The chance of punctures these days with modern tyres being so good is minimal. I will now incur the wrath of the puncture god, but I've had my Mossa for over a year now and I haven't been caught out in it with a puncture.0 -
From personal experience the Mossa is excellent in the temperature range of 0-8C pairing very well with Parentini Polypropylene base layer - but equally well with the ASSOS fall interactive polypropylene baselayer. I have a relatively short torso so the fit for me is fantastic - however, with a longer torso this could be an issue - this has been flagged up in some reviews - David Arthur's for example I think. The Castelli Alpha jersey - not the jacket is also excellent, however, it does run warmer than the Mossa. I do not have the Rapha equivalents, but generally have a high regard for their products so I sure the pro team jacket is excellent. The ASSOS equivalent jackets are very well made - but they may well have been superceded ( I have the IjHabu and the Airjack which are not as flexible as the two mentioned above). I got my Mossa from Zetta Distribution - I dealt with a chap called Ali Katir - who was very friendly and knowledgeable.
Final point with the Mossa is that it has to fit tightly to work - I am a large in the Mossa, but XL in Castelli Alpha.0 -
From personal experience the Mossa is excellent in the temperature range of 0-8C pairing very well with Parentini Polypropylene base layer - but equally well with the ASSOS fall interactive polypropylene baselayer. I have a relatively short torso so the fit for me is fantastic - however, with a longer torso this could be an issue - this has been flagged up in some reviews - David Arthur's for example I think. The Castelli Alpha jersey - not the jacket is also excellent, however, it does run warmer than the Mossa. I do not have the Rapha equivalents, but generally have a high regard for their products so I sure the pro team jacket is excellent. The ASSOS equivalent jackets are very well made - but they may well have been superceded ( I have the IjHabu and the Airjack which are not as flexible as the two mentioned above). I got my Mossa from Zetta Distribution - I dealt with a chap called Ali Katir - who was very friendly and knowledgeable.
Final point with the Mossa is that it has to fit tightly to work - I am a large in the Mossa, but XL in Castelli Alpha.
I was told by the same guy they lengthened the Mossa by 1.5cm from the front for 2016 models, they also changed the Mossa label into the shoulder. I noticed size S for me was pulling up and seemed short,loose, then i went for XS its much better now. i recommend tight fit Mossa, works best.
there is so many options, really depends on what info you can get and compare brands, also price wise some are way too pricey.0 -
Just a quick update - I've looked at nothing but jackets for the past 3 days!!
Rapha Pro Team - colour is the only thing that stopped me
Ashmei - don't like the rear 2 pocket layout
Mossa.2 - think it might be just too bulky/warm
Ive took the plunge and ordered a newcomer to the winter jacket scene - Sportful Fiandre extreme neoshell jacket in red/black.
Looks to cover all the criteria, and I was swayed by the fact I have a Fiandre light no jain jacket - which is a fantastically versatile piece for clothing and fits me like a glove. For anything this can't cover, I reckon the fiandre extreme should do the job perfectly - wind/waterproof, not too bulky and breathable.
The final thing that pushed me over the edge, was bikeinn.com have it for £185.
Ill report back with a review for anyone that may be considering it in a week or so, once I've had a chance to give it a good test.
Thanks for all your help and input.0 -
Just a quick update - I've looked at nothing but jackets for the past 3 days!!
Rapha Pro Team - colour is the only thing that stopped me
Ashmei - don't like the rear 2 pocket layout
Mossa.2 - think it might be just too bulky/warm
Ive took the plunge and ordered a newcomer to the winter jacket scene - Sportful Fiandre extreme neoshell jacket in red/black.
Looks to cover all the criteria, and I was swayed by the fact I have a Fiandre light no jain jacket - which is a fantastically versatile piece for clothing and fits me like a glove. For anything this can't cover, I reckon the fiandre extreme should do the job perfectly - wind/waterproof, not too bulky and breathable.
The final thing that pushed me over the edge, was bikeinn.com have it for £185.
Ill report back with a review for anyone that may be considering it in a week or so, once I've had a chance to give it a good test.
Thanks for all your help and input.
Agree Mossa.2 is more like proper Winter Jacket, however the Mossa is much ligther and versatile.
Look forward to hearing feedback re the Sportful0 -
Just a quick update - I've looked at nothing but jackets for the past 3 days!!
Rapha Pro Team - colour is the only thing that stopped me
Ashmei - don't like the rear 2 pocket layout
Mossa.2 - think it might be just too bulky/warm
Ive took the plunge and ordered a newcomer to the winter jacket scene - Sportful Fiandre extreme neoshell jacket in red/black.
Looks to cover all the criteria, and I was swayed by the fact I have a Fiandre light no jain jacket - which is a fantastically versatile piece for clothing and fits me like a glove. For anything this can't cover, I reckon the fiandre extreme should do the job perfectly - wind/waterproof, not too bulky and breathable.
The final thing that pushed me over the edge, was bikeinn.com have it for £185.
Ill report back with a review for anyone that may be considering it in a week or so, once I've had a chance to give it a good test.
Thanks for all your help and input.
Awesome choice! Let us know how it goes, I was out in mine last weekend and was bone dry at the end of a 2 hour ride in 10°C - not a drop of sweat but i wasn't cold either!0 -
Ah thats good to hear! Really looking forward to receiving mine now - should be here tomorrow according to the delivery tracking. Ive a couple of rides planned this weekend and looking at the forecast, the jacket will get a real good test!0
