London TdF - non!
Comments
-
I'd like to see a GT grand depart in Dorset. Fantastic countryside with lots of good hills. Would love to see the peleton climbing ZigZag hill or up Kingston Hill with Corfe Castle in the background. Plus with the prospect of all the local authorities (Xch, Bmth, Poole + others) all combining to form a super council, there may be a thought that they could set aside a large budget to bring in the TdF.
+1 for Dorset.Always be yourself, unless you can be Aaron Rodgers....Then always be Aaron Rodgers.0 -
the money to be made from the Tour seem quite difficult to pin down, Welcome to Yorkshire made a loss http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/13785943.__750_000_of_unsold_Tour_de_France_merchandise_contributed_to___1m_Welcome_to_Yorkshire_losses/
fantastic route/racing but if its purely as a money making venture, its always going to be difficult.
be lovely to see it head into some of the more interesting areas of uk but funding rarely allows it.0 -
Welcome to Yorkshire made a loss, but the region which Welcome to Yorkshire exist to promote made a large amount of revenue. I'm not sure Welcome to Yorkshire is a profit making organisation - presumably it's funded by authorities in the region who benefitted from the event.the money to be made from the Tour seem quite difficult to pin down, Welcome to Yorkshire made a loss http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/13785943.__750_000_of_unsold_Tour_de_France_merchandise_contributed_to___1m_Welcome_to_Yorkshire_losses/
fantastic route/racing but if its purely as a money making venture, its always going to be difficult.
be lovely to see it head into some of the more interesting areas of uk but funding rarely allows it.0 -
the money to be made from the Tour seem quite difficult to pin down, Welcome to Yorkshire made a loss http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/13785943.__750_000_of_unsold_Tour_de_France_merchandise_contributed_to___1m_Welcome_to_Yorkshire_losses/
fantastic route/racing but if its purely as a money making venture, its always going to be difficult.
be lovely to see it head into some of the more interesting areas of uk but funding rarely allows it.
But how would Welcome To Yorkshire make a profit? Nobody who goes to Yorkshire for the Tour start, books a B&B, buys dinner, has a pint, pays to park etc etc etc. has put any money into Welcome To Yorkshire. They put it into the hands of businesses who employ people in Yorkshire."In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
The local TV (London-South East various channels) had Boris explaining that previous bids had government support and he cannot commit £35 million from the London Budget.
He has been told that the £10/12 million would not be forthcoming from the HM Treasury.
It would be a big "Political" fight to get such a Budget through City Hall and it is better to back off now, than have to bail out at a latter date.(through political pressures)
IMO :- Scotland or Wales would be fine if they can Budget that sort of money from their own resources.Organiser, National Championship 50 mile Time Trial 19720 -
TFL has had a change at the top this year with Peter Hendy leaving. My understanding is that he was a major driving force behind getting the tour in 2007. Perhaps with him leaving there isn't the same impetus behind getting the race back.
Also important to remember that London's motivation to get the tour in 2007 was very different to Yorkshire. London wanted to promote cycling as a means of transport in the capital and saw the tour as a way of doing this. Welcome to Yorkshire isn't bothered about people using their bikes instead of their cars - it wants people to visit Yorkshire having seen it on TV.
TFL may think that they've done a good job of promoting cycling already and that the major barrier to further people taking it up as a mode of transport is shit facilities and that money may be better spent here. Especially now that the major TdF cheerleader has moved on.<a><img></a>0 -
-
I'd like to see a GT grand depart in Dorset. Fantastic countryside with lots of good hills. Would love to see the peloton climbing ZigZag hill or up Kingston Hill with Corfe Castle in the background. Plus with the prospect of all the local authorities (Xch, Bmth, Poole + others) all combining to form a super council, there may be a thought that they could set aside a large budget to bring in the TdF.
+1 for Dorset.
Would love that but it's unlikely to happen - would be seen as frivolous expenditure sadly, but...
Friday prologue along the seafront from Sandbanks to Christchurch (or vice versa!)
Saturday - Bournemouth through west Dorset.
Sunday - hit the north Dorset hills, including 3 different ascents of Bullbarrow (including Woolland & Stoke Wake) with a finish in Shaftesbury having done Fontmell Hill, Zig Zag, and a finish up St Johns to the hospital.
Potential for loads of nasty climbing.
0 -
The local TV (London-South East various channels) had Boris explaining that previous bids had government support and he cannot commit £35 million from the London Budget.
He has been told that the £10/12 million would not be forthcoming from the HM Treasury.
It would be a big "Political" fight to get such a Budget through City Hall and it is better to back off now, than have to bail out at a latter date.(through political pressures)
IMO :- Scotland or Wales would be fine if they can Budget that sort of money from their own resources.
According to Ken Livingstone (and that comes with all the usual caveats from a rival party) the Tour in 2007 cost London £1.5m plus the cost to put it on, which he says "London does all the time anyway".
So i'd be a bit surprised if it was suddenly that much more expensive...0 -
The local TV (London-South East various channels) had Boris explaining that previous bids had government support and he cannot commit £35 million from the London Budget.
He has been told that the £10/12 million would not be forthcoming from the HM Treasury.
It would be a big "Political" fight to get such a Budget through City Hall and it is better to back off now, than have to bail out at a latter date.(through political pressures)
IMO :- Scotland or Wales would be fine if they can Budget that sort of money from their own resources.
FWIW, I think Boris is spot on even though as a pro cycling fan its disappointing. I also think, given Prudhomme's comments today, that TfL/ London haven't just backed out last minute.
Yorkshire authorities paid something like £4m to ASO just to secure the TdF, which pays their operational costs to travel over, all infrastructure, hotels for teams etc. On top of that, Yorkshire local authorities paid £11m+ towards the operational costs along with a £10m grant from UK sport/ government backing. TfL paid £6m to stage the London stage along with Cambridge paying some costs too. There was an overspend as well which resulted in an overall cost of some near £27-30m. Some of the costs were stupidity - Tourmakers being ferried around and uniforms etc. whilst Police officers (who could have been flag marshals) in their hundreds were high-fiving kids!
I'd say the estimated £35m for London holding 3 stages is on the low side and would have definitely cost a lot more. That £35m isn't paid to ASO as some of the posters above seem to believe - its for operational costs - stewarding, traffic management, events, screens, infrastructure, toilets, signs and so on. Theres also lots of media about the economy boost, but all the extra income is actually offset by the amount of business lost by all those businesses that are closed/ inaccessible due to the Tour (minimum 6 hour road closures - often much longer).
London hardly needs to attract the Tour does it - surely its better investing in british cycling/ sweetspot and promoting the Ride London/ Tour of Britain races upto World Tour level and the associated legacy events.
Manchester confirmed they didn't even bid. Edinburgh bid is a non starter - would need 2 transition stages to move between Scotland and France - ASO wont entertain 4 stages outside France surely.
ASO make their money through marketing image rights, selling hospitality packages (Sports Tours/ Gala dinners) and merchandise. I understand they made a fortune last year so will always be keen to stage the grand depart in UK if it stacks up for logistics and operationally.
Welcome to Yorkshire basically shadowed ASO for 2 years and sought to copy what ASO do (even down to their uniforms!!!) and due to bad management and being far too optimistic have failed miserably - bought loads of "Yorkshire TDF" stock when in reality, all public wanted ASO merchandise. They are a marketing agency, not an event organiser. That's why they lost £1m.0 -
The local TV (London-South East various channels) had Boris explaining that previous bids had government support and he cannot commit £35 million from the London Budget.
He has been told that the £10/12 million would not be forthcoming from the HM Treasury.
It would be a big "Political" fight to get such a Budget through City Hall and it is better to back off now, than have to bail out at a latter date.(through political pressures)
IMO :- Scotland or Wales would be fine if they can Budget that sort of money from their own resources.
According to Ken Livingstone (and that comes with all the usual caveats from a rival party) the Tour in 2007 cost London £1.5m plus the cost to put it on, which he says "London does all the time anyway".
So i'd be a bit surprised if it was suddenly that much more expensive...
1.5m was the fee to ASO. 7m was the total spend.
I think you can probably double that now. And then the bid may have had more stages than last time. It would seem the timing was bad - a spending review and an election coming up.
Dusseldorf will fill in, but I think Edinburgh would be great. Imagine an 6-8k prologue ending in a climb to the castle. (I think the Tour of Britain did similar once)Twitter: @RichN950 -
The local TV (London-South East various channels) had Boris explaining that previous bids had government support and he cannot commit £35 million from the London Budget.
He has been told that the £10/12 million would not be forthcoming from the HM Treasury.
It would be a big "Political" fight to get such a Budget through City Hall and it is better to back off now, than have to bail out at a latter date.(through political pressures)
IMO :- Scotland or Wales would be fine if they can Budget that sort of money from their own resources.
According to Ken Livingstone (and that comes with all the usual caveats from a rival party) the Tour in 2007 cost London £1.5m plus the cost to put it on, which he says "London does all the time anyway".
So i'd be a bit surprised if it was suddenly that much more expensive...
It cost London/ Kent and other authorities over £10m to stage from recollection.0 -
I mean, I reckon the ruggers is plenty more expensive, for example.
If they can afford it for ride London....0 -
Yeah, but your City friends like the rugger. (Just as long as those nasty sheep shaggers spoil it for them - ha, ha, ha)I mean, I reckon the ruggers is plenty more expensive, for example.
If they can afford it for ride London....Twitter: @RichN950 -
I'd like to see a GT grand depart in Dorset. Fantastic countryside with lots of good hills. Would love to see the peloton climbing ZigZag hill or up Kingston Hill with Corfe Castle in the background. Plus with the prospect of all the local authorities (Xch, Bmth, Poole + others) all combining to form a super council, there may be a thought that they could set aside a large budget to bring in the TdF.
+1 for Dorset.
Would love that but it's unlikely to happen - would be seen as frivolous expenditure sadly, but...
Friday prologue along the seafront from Sandbanks to Christchurch (or vice versa!)
Saturday - Bournemouth through west Dorset.
Sunday - hit the north Dorset hills, including 3 different ascents of Bullbarrow (including Woolland & Stoke Wake) with a finish in Shaftesbury having done Fontmell Hill, Zig Zag, and a finish up St Johns to the hospital.
Potential for loads of nasty climbing.
Exactement Monsieur.
Although a prologue on the seafront might not be best idea.... see Vuelta 2015 TTT. But certainly a prologue around the chines would be interesting.
If not the TdF. Why haven't Dorset put in for a stage of the ToB? Don't understand that.Always be yourself, unless you can be Aaron Rodgers....Then always be Aaron Rodgers.0 -
Maybe they have. There are many different aspects that govern where the ToB goes and not everywhere that expresses an interest ends up with a stage.If not the TdF. Why haven't Dorset put in for a stage of the ToB? Don't understand that.0 -
Welcome to Yorkshire basically shadowed ASO for 2 years and sought to copy what ASO do (even down to their uniforms!!!) and due to bad management and being far too optimistic have failed miserably - bought loads of "Yorkshire TDF" stock when in reality, all public wanted ASO merchandise. They are a marketing agency, not an event organiser. That's why they lost £1m.
I think that this is extremely unfair. It does look like someone really messed up with regards to predicting demand for stock but that's only one aspect of it. I think Welcome to Yorkshire can rightly point towards the additional revenue generated by people visiting the county during the tour and also the impact of press coverage and people all around the world seeing footage of the county and wanting to visit in future.<a><img></a>0 -
Was the Olympics expected to make money? Of course not, it has an expense like any big event.
The disappointment is that London was the choice. I thought Leeds had proven that big sporting events don't have to be in London in order to be popular.
As for Scotland, well it's possible. After all they had two stages in Corsica complete with long transfer times back to Nice which is why they only had a short TT on that day. It's entirely possible to have a prologue in Edinburgh, two loops from Edinburgh then everyone flies to France at the end of Day 3 ready for a short TT on Day 4.0 -
Wow, What a job for the Caravan and Truckers carrying the barriers, Finish, Kilo flags and media requirements.As for Scotland, well it's possible. After all they had two stages in Corsica complete with long transfer times back to Nice which is why they only had a short TT on that day. It's entirely possible to have a prologue in Edinburgh, two loops from Edinburgh then everyone flies to France at the end of Day 3 ready for a short TT on Day 4.
From Ireland they went by normal ferry boats but has Lieth any dock loading facilities.Nah, I havn't seen any.
So it would have to be Rosyth with special hired boats to Zeebrugge or maybe from Newcastle.Organiser, National Championship 50 mile Time Trial 19720 -
Wouldn't be easy but if they wanted it to happen, then it could.0
-
Maybe they have. There are many different aspects that govern where the ToB goes and not everywhere that expresses an interest ends up with a stage.If not the TdF. Why haven't Dorset put in for a stage of the ToB? Don't understand that.
I believe that it is being considered, but the councils are very reluctant to spend the required money, preferring to avoid any 'unnecessary' costs that might result in Council Tax rises.
It's a shame as zigzag really needs resurfacing!0 -
Was the Olympics expected to make money? Of course not, it has an expense like any big event.
The disappointment is that London was the choice. I thought Leeds had proven that big sporting events don't have to be in London in order to be popular.
As for Scotland, well it's possible. After all they had two stages in Corsica complete with long transfer times back to Nice which is why they only had a short TT on that day. It's entirely possible to have a prologue in Edinburgh, two loops from Edinburgh then everyone flies to France at the end of Day 3 ready for a short TT on Day 4.
Feel free to lobby the fish people of Sturgeon and Salmond
Also British Cycling who would have to back it.
But whilst you're at it, have a think about how the race convoy - which is rather more than riders who can be flown - can get from Scotland to France with all the vehicles in good time for the following day.
Its a heck of a lot further than Corsica to Nice, which additionally had the advantage of sea transportation for the vehicles.
The ASO wouldnt accept a 3rd stage in Yorkshire last year because of this - which is where the 3rd stage from Essex to London came into the revised proposal - so they're not going to buy Scotland, then straight to France. Nor will they (unlike RCS) go for a rest day right after the start of the race.0 -
Its an awful lot of money for a day or two to be honest, on what if effectively a boring flat stage. Yorkshire was hugely successful because of the parcours. I'd much rather that money was invested in infrastructure I think.
The comparison with the rugby isn't really viable. That's on for 6 weeks.0 -
If it went to Scotland you'd probably be looking at 3 days then a rest day for the travel back - agree it's a big ask for the ASO but still doable. I suspect like most things it would come down to money. Commonwealth Games cost about £550 million with about £370m from public funds - OK so that's the commonwealth games but arguably the Tour while much shorter lived creates a much bigger buzz for the time it is on and of course for much less money.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0
-
How about a special edition of the Tour de France where every stage except Paris is outside France? 0
-
If I ruled cycling then the Vuelta would alternate between Spain and a different country or region each year. Imagine a 3 week tour in the UK - we're quite a small island you could really visit most of it - or 3 weeks in Germany, a 3 week Tour or the Netherlands and Belgium. I'd keep it to countries with some interest in bike racing though it wouldn't be purely down to money - so Colombia yes, Qatar no.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0
-
The Giro does it all the time - starts in Denmark, Netherlands, Belfast, with a rest day to get all the support vehicles and infrastructure all the way down to the South of Italy, many many times the distance of Scotland-France0
-
When the Tour went to Ireland in 1998, they didn't even have a rest day - and that's a 15 hour ferry trip. So as long as you can hire enough drivers (so they get sufficient rest) and source things like barriers locally, it can be done even without a rest day (not ideal though).Twitter: @RichN950
-
When the Tour went to Ireland in 1998, they didn't even have a rest day - and that's a 15 hour ferry trip. So as long as you can hire enough drivers (so they get sufficient rest) and source things like barriers locally, it can be done even without a rest day (not ideal though).
And hey, every team vehicle had plenty of 'mothers little helpers' to ensure no one - the riders, the support staff - was too tired to ensure the show went on, didnt they....
Different times.0
