This idea must die
Comments
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Disc brakes in the Pro Peloton
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Trek Marlin 29er 20120 -
No idea what one could possibly have against the on bike cameras. They are great. Also, they've announced that the technology isn't far away from being implemented live as well.
agreed0 -
Salsiccia1 wrote:We've all seen the post-race clips of riders going up the Alpe, wouldn't a cut to 5 seconds of that during the race be interesting and engaging? And on descents. And even if it's not live, being able to have a replay of a sprint finish from within to show how rider x saw it/won it, I think that is well worth having.No idea what one could possibly have against the on bike cameras. They are great. Also, they've announced that the technology isn't far away from being implemented live as well.
agreed
Agreed too - it needs to be used better but the footage is greatWe're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
The idea that doing the Vuelta is prep for the Tour0
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I don't see what on the bike cameras add except a poor view of the race, sure a few seconds clip post race no problem but for me they add so little and if they start using them live I reckon it'll be a negative.
How is, let's say, seeing what exactly caused a crash in HD instead of a red ring highlighting 3 fat pixels somwhere in front of the peloton adding very little, though?
It doesn't even have to be limited to the riders. This is, for example, absolutely phenomenal footage. I don't quite believe you if you disagree on that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsz5Hp320R4
Sure, as ddraver mentioned, it has to be used better in some occasions but simply throwing the idea away is absolute madness in my opinon.0 -
I don't see what on the bike cameras add except a poor view of the race, sure a few seconds clip post race no problem but for me they add so little and if they start using them live I reckon it'll be a negative.
How is, let's say, seeing what exactly caused a crash in HD instead of a red ring highlighting 3 fat pixels somwhere in front of the peloton adding very little though?
It doesn't even have to be limited to the riders. This is, for example, absolutely phenomenal footage. I don't quite believe you if you disagree on that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsz5Hp320R4
Sure, as ddraver mentioned, it has to be used better in some occasions but throwing the idea away is madness.
Backstage pass still the best user of the Velon footage I've seen. It's all about the editing and using it to add to our understanding of the situation...0 -
We've all seen the post-race clips of riders going up the Alpe, wouldn't a cut to 5 seconds of that during the race be interesting and engaging? And on descents. And even if it's not live, being able to have a replay of a sprint finish from within to show how rider x saw it/won it, I think that is well worth having.
Yes post stage show the sprint no problem as they show it from several views anyway - I'd take the overhead shot as being more interesting but as a bonus yeah why not. Really though for most situations the motorbikes can get close enough and provide far better shots, a fixed camera on a bike is only providing a very poor view of the bike race from close up whereas a cameraman on a motorbike provides a good view from close up. It's a gimmick, there's a place for gimmicks but it's not going to revolutionise coverage.
It's a bit like these people that film your local chaingang and stick it on youtube, you watch a bit and then think yeah well it's all a bit samey and you rarely see the things happening you'd want to focus on. We'll see but I doubt it'll become a significant part of the coverage.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
The idea that winning a race with 'panache' somehow has a greater value in history than winning in whatever way suits you best (or indeed that those winning with panache are in some way doing it for the benefit of spectators rather than because that's their best chance of winning).0
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The idea that winning a race with 'panache' somehow has a greater value in history than winning in whatever way suits you best (or indeed that those winning with panache are in some way doing it for the benefit of spectators rather than because that's their best chance of winning).
Course it does!!!0 -
Race camera motos getting up close to riders adds to the viewer experience......
Calling motorbikes, motos to be trendy.'Performance analysis and Froome not being clean was a media driven story. I haven’t heard one guy in the peloton say a negative thing about Froome, and I haven’t heard a single person in the peloton suggest Froome isn’t clean.' TSP0 -
The idea that winning a race with 'panache' somehow has a greater value in history than winning in whatever way suits you best (or indeed that those winning with panache are in some way doing it for the benefit of spectators rather than because that's their best chance of winning).
Course it does!!!
No it doesn't. Do you think anyone would attach solo 100km out if they thought they could win by sitting in the wheels to the last 10m? The record books also show the winner with the same status, there's no asterisk to denote 'won solo from 100km out' and the prize money is exactly the same. Panache is generally just desperation or someone needing air time
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Really? Races won with panache are remembered more fondly, so have therefore more value in history. Bettini's 2006 Lombardy win, or Merckx' 1969 Vlaanderen win, for example. I've forgotten pretty much all Kuurne-Brussel-Kuurne winners, including this year, apart from Traksel's 2010 win. Why? Heroic, panache, etc.The idea that winning a race with 'panache' somehow has a greater value in history than winning in whatever way suits you best (or indeed that those winning with panache are in some way doing it for the benefit of spectators rather than because that's their best chance of winning).
Course it does!!!
No it doesn't. Do you think anyone would attach solo 100km out if they thought they could win by sitting in the wheels to the last 10m? The record books also show the winner with the same status, there's no asterisk to denote 'won solo from 100km out' and the prize money is exactly the same. Panache is generally just desperation or someone needing air time0 -
Really? Races won with panache are remembered more fondly, so have therefore more value in history. Bettini's 2006 Lombardy win, or Merckx' 1969 Vlaanderen win, for example. I've forgotten pretty much all Kuurne-Brussel-Kuurne winners, including this year, apart from Traksel's 2010 win. Why? Heroic, panache, etc.The idea that winning a race with 'panache' somehow has a greater value in history than winning in whatever way suits you best (or indeed that those winning with panache are in some way doing it for the benefit of spectators rather than because that's their best chance of winning).
Course it does!!!
No it doesn't. Do you think anyone would attach solo 100km out if they thought they could win by sitting in the wheels to the last 10m? The record books also show the winner with the same status, there's no asterisk to denote 'won solo from 100km out' and the prize money is exactly the same. Panache is generally just desperation or someone needing air time
Only True Fans (tm) value panache...0 -
- winning the Tour once entitles you to spend the next 5 years rolling round in the bus even when it's our home tour
Who do you have in mind here, just out of interest?0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19702957#p19702957]Wallace and Gromit[/url] wrote:- winning the Tour once entitles you to spend the next 5 years rolling round in the bus even when it's our home tour
Who do you have in mind here, just out of interest?
Andy Schleck... :P0 -
The cycling season should be modelled on the Formula 1 season
what do you mean by this? how would if be done?0 -
The cycling season should be modelled on the Formula 1 season
what do you mean by this? how would if be done?
Some people have suggested some sort of 'season long narrative' to link all the races and come up with a champion team, or some such sh1t, with some sort of fixed calender of qualifying races, with a franchise-type arrangement.
And yes, this idea must die. It must be hung, drawn and quartered, then burnt and its ashes poured into fast-running water.It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.0 -
That sprints are best filmed in a head-on shot. 4 days of Dunkirk last time I ssaw it were cutting to an overhead shot for the sprints. Far better.Team My Man 2018: David gaudu, Pierre Latour, Romain Bardet, Thibaut pinot, Alexandre Geniez, Florian Senechal, Warren Barguil, Benoit Cosnefroy0
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The cycling season should be modelled on the Formula 1 season
what do you mean by this? how would if be done?
Some people have suggested some sort of 'season long narrative' to link all the races and come up with a champion team, or some such sh1t, with some sort of fixed calender of qualifying races, with a franchise-type arrangement.
And yes, this idea must die. It must be hung, drawn and quartered, then burnt and its ashes poured into fast-running water.
Totally disagree.
The ashes should be shot into space, so that in time they'll drift out of the solar system itself.Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
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The whole idea of 'My Men', they couldn't give a feck what you think of them 0
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The whole idea of 'My Men', they couldn't give a feck what you think of them
...it has gone a bit too far nowWe're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
The cycling season should be modelled on the Formula 1 season
what do you mean by this? how would if be done?
Some people have suggested some sort of 'season long narrative' to link all the races and come up with a champion team, or some such sh1t, with some sort of fixed calender of qualifying races, with a franchise-type arrangement.
And yes, this idea must die. It must be hung, drawn and quartered, then burnt and its ashes poured into fast-running water.
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This.The whole idea of 'My Men', they couldn't give a feck what you think of them0 -
The whole idea of 'My Men', they couldn't give a feck what you think of them
Exactly this.
Especially if your list of 'my men' couldn't actually fit on a team bus, let alone a tour team!!!0 -
Really? Races won with panache are remembered more fondly, so have therefore more value in history. Bettini's 2006 Lombardy win, or Merckx' 1969 Vlaanderen win, for example. I've forgotten pretty much all Kuurne-Brussel-Kuurne winners, including this year, apart from Traksel's 2010 win. Why? Heroic, panache, etc.The idea that winning a race with 'panache' somehow has a greater value in history than winning in whatever way suits you best (or indeed that those winning with panache are in some way doing it for the benefit of spectators rather than because that's their best chance of winning).
Course it does!!!
No it doesn't. Do you think anyone would attach solo 100km out if they thought they could win by sitting in the wheels to the last 10m? The record books also show the winner with the same status, there's no asterisk to denote 'won solo from 100km out' and the prize money is exactly the same. Panache is generally just desperation or someone needing air time
+1 to Rick and FJScalvjones wrote:Just out of interest, why is Pozzato in your sig line at all? Most of the other riders I can kinda see the point of, but let's face it, Pippo is a bit of a wheelsucking, self-loving, all mouth-few-race-wins dick isn't he?
To me cycling is about more than winning. Yes it is important yet at the same time I can really appreciate riders who attack, who entertain and who give it their all however futile. I respect that and it harks back to the old-school days.
There are a few riders now-a-days that have this 'old-school' approach, this sense of pure cycling, devoid of commercialism and all out win at all costs mentality. A lot of them are on my signature for that reason.
With Pozzato, although he isn't my 'favourite-favourite' on that list, and is in fact quite near the bottom, he is on there for the following reasons:
-He has style, both in terms of kit and equipment but also in terms of how he holds himself on the bike. Not only does this make for better viewing, it provides me with better photos.
-He is an attacker.
-He competes a lot (94 race days last year - that is 7th in the list out of every single rider)
-He is consistently a more than competent rider (his ranking for CQ for the past 5 years is: 45, 29, 27, 22, 17).
-He is an interesting character
The French don't care about winning. It is the excitement, the panache, the romance, the rare triumph, the fight, that counts.
The word baroudeur, which so many French riders can be classified as, derives from the 'last stand of honour' in a battle that is already lost.As I said previously I am not in agreement with most people's attitude of 'win at all costs' or 'win anyway you can'. I am much more interested in riders winning, or even not winning but trying, in a respectable way. I wouldn't get all worked up because your opinion of this is different to mine.In my opinion, although there are valid points on either side, I don't care too much about winning I care more about the way you win or try for it. That may be contrary to most people but I couldn't care less. It makes me laugh when people trot out the argument of not having to have morals or codes of conduct in sport.
Situation 1: there is someone in the break who is dangerous to GC. In this instance, I agree that the rider shouldn't work and think he shouldn't contest the win.
Situtaion 2: there is no rider dangerous to GC. The rider should work like everyone else.
You may add a win to your palmares and a couple of bucks to your bank by bagging a win but I will not respect your win.
Real champions and real riders earn their palmares.So I finished reading the article and it was pretty good. I particularly like the points I highlight below. Here is a Certified Heavyweight of the sport espousing exactly what I think and mention on occasion on this forum and which people try and put down. Shame some of you are just that bit too proud or clinical to immerse yourself in the world which is cycling passion.
“Winning isn’t always important. Going there and showing that you know how to lose is important. So I went and I still won something that day.”
Moral victories have been an increasing part of Cancellara’s diet over the past two seasons but by and large, he has digested those disappointments with equanimity, perhaps in part because they have still been washed down by a steady flow of tangible achievement.
Rather than bemoan the heavy marking to which he has been exposed, Cancellara seems almost to revel in it, repeatedly attempting to ride his rivals off his wheel. Victories and WorldTour points may ultimately decide the small print of a riders’ contract but in Cancellara’s mind, the history books often reserve their longest chapters for the grandest gestures.
“I leave all the passion I have for this sport out there on the road. You saw that at Milan-San Remo, there were two guys on my wheel. What did I do? Pull back? No, I did what I always do – I kept going, I went for it. Even though the strongest doesn’t always win, you can’t hold back,” he says of his second place finish behind Simon Gerrans last March.
“It’s not spettacolo,” he stresses. “I ride to my limit until I fall off my bike. That’s my spettacolo. I do everything I can to win."
“A lot of people like to see the strongest win all the time, but we know that that sport is not like that. Cycling is not predictable, which is just as well, because otherwise it wouldn’t be such a beautiful sport.”
Ps. 'Canc' is not a good way to refer to him. Try any one of these:Nicknames Fabian Cancellara
- Fäbu
Dialect pronunciation of his first name in the region of the Swiss capital of Bern.
- Spartacus
Relating to his rather muscular built, for sure when compared to climbing midgets.
- The Gladiator
An obvious variation on the Spartacus theme.
- Goliath
Again referring to his solid built.
- The motorbike
Come from the blistering pace he set on the pavées on his way to winning Paris-Roubaix.
- Berna's Locomotive
Again referring to his brutal strength and place of residence.
- Tony Montana
After the main character of Scarface - after all Cancellara is half Swiss, half Italian.Absolutely - as Cancellara says: it is not spettacolo. Showboating for no reason can be good for a few moments exciting but in the long term is hollow. Winning and more importantly trying to win can be done with style and passion. And absolutely there can be great enjoyment to be had from less obvious actions - I take great pleasure on superb domestique work, courageous riding by unknown riders, etc.I don't mind not winning, I mind not trying
Quote Jacky Durand.
etcContador is the Greatest0 -
Really? Races won with panache are remembered more fondly, so have therefore more value in history. Bettini's 2006 Lombardy win, or Merckx' 1969 Vlaanderen win, for example. I've forgotten pretty much all Kuurne-Brussel-Kuurne winners, including this year, apart from Traksel's 2010 win. Why? Heroic, panache, etc.The idea that winning a race with 'panache' somehow has a greater value in history than winning in whatever way suits you best (or indeed that those winning with panache are in some way doing it for the benefit of spectators rather than because that's their best chance of winning).
Course it does!!!
No it doesn't. Do you think anyone would attach solo 100km out if they thought they could win by sitting in the wheels to the last 10m? The record books also show the winner with the same status, there's no asterisk to denote 'won solo from 100km out' and the prize money is exactly the same. Panache is generally just desperation or someone needing air time
I think it depends, if a rider wins dozens of races without panache or style they will still be remembered, simply for winning lots of races (Cavendish's stage wins potentially? Although some of his sprints are pretty awesome to watch). But as you say an anonymous race win with no distinguishing features is pretty forgettable.0 -
"rides with panache" is NOT the same as "is a dirty doper" (they are very clearly the same thing)0
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Double post
+1 drive me mad!"Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago0 -
Double post
+1 drive me mad!"Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago0
