Why no Sky women's team?
Comments
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I've reeling from ddraver digging my vibe
Get you :P0 -
Only Brad could start up a junior team using only his name - Pinerello and SRAM wouldnt give their stuff to "Team CVNDSH"
Not sure about that. I'm expecting Dimension Data - CVNDSH next season...
DMNSN DT - CVNDSH srly?
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[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19699947#p19699947]Richmond Racer 2[/url] wrote:I've reeling from ddraver digging my vibe
Get you :P
I feel dat...We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
In my view all WT men's teams should operate a parallel women's team. Realise funding issues etc etc. But if the Velon franchise idea ever gets off the ground a key requirement of the franchise should be to run a women's team as well.
A lot of men's teams struggle for funding as it is. Forcing them to spend another 6 or 7 figure sum on a women's team they don't want or can't afford would probably kill a few WT teams."Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago0 -
The trouble is that Cycling is a sport where the only thing that matters is crossing the line first. Lizzie is EBH like in being second across the line but the headlines go to the winner. That makes her a shoe in for the World Cup but that's just not much of a big deal
Trott is like Wiggins in that she brings the money from outside. You can put on a revolution series with Cav and Armitstead on the bill and it might sell well, but if you put Wiggins and Trott on the bill then it will sell out in an hour. That's not fair to Lizzie and Mark but it's the reality. Only Brad could start up a junior team using only his name - Pinerello and SRAM wouldnt give their stuff to "Team CVNDSH"
You think that Trott is a bigger draw for revolution than Cavendish ? I don't buy that at all, not even close, I know when Cavendish rode at Derby recently it was a big deal with people that were going - I couldn't even tell you if Trott rode.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
Like it or not there is just nowhere near enough people who would want to watch womens racing. the thought that every sport has to have a womans equivalent is just silly, by all means if enough women actually want to do it then they should be encouraged, but please lets not go down the path of forcing anyone to have a womens team just because they have a mens team.
On the other hand I am 100% in favour of women being able to compete alongside men in all sports.0 -
Out of interest, how do you guys find the time to watch women's cycling?
I struggle to find enough time to watch men's, so the prospect of investing in another entire peloton' worth of cyclist is just too much.0 -
Only Brad could start up a junior team using only his name - Pinerello and SRAM wouldnt give their stuff to "Team CVNDSH"
Not sure about that. I'm expecting Dimension Data - CVNDSH next season...
Cav and Oakley are very tight - he couldn't get them to splash some more sponsorship cash for named team could he?
Not sure what's in that for Oakley
I would have thought being associated with Qhubeka would be pretty attractive to Oakley?
But then I would also have assumed companies would be queuing up to sponsor Qhubeka and that doesn't seem to be the case.0 -
The trouble is that Cycling is a sport where the only thing that matters is crossing the line first. Lizzie is EBH like in being second across the line but the headlines go to the winner. That makes her a shoe in for the World Cup but that's just not much of a big deal
Trott is like Wiggins in that she brings the money from outside. You can put on a revolution series with Cav and Armitstead on the bill and it might sell well, but if you put Wiggins and Trott on the bill then it will sell out in an hour. That's not fair to Lizzie and Mark but it's the reality. Only Brad could start up a junior team using only his name - Pinerello and SRAM wouldnt give their stuff to "Team CVNDSH"
You think that Trott is a bigger draw for revolution than Cavendish ? I don't buy that at all, not even close, I know when Cavendish rode at Derby recently it was a big deal with people that were going - I couldn't even tell you if Trott rode.
Trott is not a bigger draw than Cav, she's not even the same draw0 -
Not often. I've watched the UK nationals and I watched the last half hour of Plouay. I saw some highlights of the Tour of Britain. And I was in Paris for La Course. I'll probably watch the last lap or two of the Worlds.Out of interest, how do you guys find the time to watch women's cycling?Twitter: @RichN950 -
Out of interest, how do you guys find the time to watch women's cycling?
I struggle to find enough time to watch men's, so the prospect of investing in another entire peloton' worth of cyclist is just too much.
I struggle. I can only watch videos of maybe 1 in 3 womens races
But I do like to keep in touch with whats happening, race reports and so on0 -
Just out of curiosity, what would be the likely outcome if the best in the womens peloton were allowed to mix it up with the men? Is there a gargantuan performance difference or would they be just as good as Team Cannondale say!?0
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Just out of curiosity, what would be the likely outcome if the best in the womens peloton were allowed to mix it up with the men? Is there a gargantuan performance difference or would they be just as good as Team Cannondale say!?
Vos said in an interview a couple of years ago that she'd raced with and against men in a race, and she said 'world of difference' and that she couldn't be competitive - faster and much more aggressive
Carmen Small (I think it was her) said the same in the last few weeks, after joining a mens team for a race in the US0 -
That's a bigger issue. No time to watch it in the first place. Even for hardcore nerds.
Which is why womens racing needs to carve out new audiences, rather than just attempt to attract the existing established audience for mens racing
tbf I think those trying to progress womens racing, do get that0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19700020#p19700020]Richmond Racer 2[/url] wrote:That's a bigger issue. No time to watch it in the first place. Even for hardcore nerds.
Which is why womens racing needs to carve out new audiences, rather than just attempt to attract the existing established audience for mens racing
tbf I think those trying to progress womens racing, do get that
It's not just finding time to watch it, it's finding time to find coverage of it!
The only womens racing I watch is the XCO or DH becasue it's so easy to find and presented so wellWe're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
In a word. Money. It always comes down to money.
Emotional attachment to womens cycling aside for a moment, if you are trying to get sponsorship for a womens team (or any team for that matter) the first thing you will be asked is how much TV, magazine, internet and radio exposure will i get for my money if you are a sponsor with a marketing budget. If that % is less than what you can get by simply sticking an ad for your business or product in a national newspaper then you aren't going to bother.
If I'm advertising Sky Tv for example, why would i sponsor a team for £2m a year for a couple of TV races with a combined exposure of a million people when for £30k i can stick a full page ad in the The Sun newspaper and reach 4 million people. It's simply numbers. Exposure v How much cost.
The whole cycling/emotional/loving the sport simply doesn't come into it on a business level. Its the same reason why Man United can spend £50m on a single player knowing that in a year he will be part of a team getting worldwide exposure creating over a billion pound. So £50m might sound a lot on one player but its nothing against what you're getting back (to use a football term which i hate!)0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19700020#p19700020]Richmond Racer 2[/url] wrote:That's a bigger issue. No time to watch it in the first place. Even for hardcore nerds.
Which is why womens racing needs to carve out new audiences, rather than just attempt to attract the existing established audience for mens racing
tbf I think those trying to progress womens racing, do get that
It's not just finding time to watch it, it's finding time to find coverage of it!
The only womens racing I watch is the XCO or DH becasue it's so easy to find and presented so well
Womens World Cup races have been streamed on youtube this year. Follow the likes of cyclingtips ella (cant remember the Twitter handle, but heres the website http://cyclingtips.com.au/2015/01/introducing-ella-cyclingtips/
and @voxwomen0 -
In a word. Money. It always comes down to money.
Emotional attachment to womens cycling aside for a moment, if you are trying to get sponsorship for a womens team (or any team for that matter) the first thing you will be asked is how much TV, magazine, internet and radio exposure will i get for my money if you are a sponsor with a marketing budget. If that % is less than what you can get by simply sticking an ad for your business or product in a national newspaper then you aren't going to bother.
If I'm advertising Sky Tv for example, why would i sponsor a team for £2m a year for a couple of TV races with a combined exposure of a million people when for £30k i can stick a full page ad in the The Sun newspaper and reach 4 million people. It's simply numbers. Exposure v How much cost.
The whole cycling/emotional/loving the sport simply doesn't come into it on a business level. Its the same reason why Man United can spend £50m on a single player knowing that in a year he will be part of a team getting worldwide exposure creating over a billion pound. So £50m might sound a lot on one player but its nothing against what you're getting back (to use a football term which i hate!)
It's more than that.
Sky are reaching 100% of the pro cycling audience already. Why double pay for the same people?
OK that's the business view.
Yes they could benefit from sponsoring a women's team ethically but their money will be optimised to reach sports fans in this market who they are already blanket covering.0 -
After the spring classics, Paris-Nice, the Giro, Suisse, TdF, Vuelta I'm burnt out watching, MY seasons coming to an end!
I'd like to see a ladies programme but in all seriousness I simply don't have the time to watch nor would I swap viewing time from the mens to womens. I love our existing race programme... they define period s of the year.'Performance analysis and Froome not being clean was a media driven story. I haven’t heard one guy in the peloton say a negative thing about Froome, and I haven’t heard a single person in the peloton suggest Froome isn’t clean.' TSP0 -
Here's my World Champs promo concept
Sounds like typical RAI sports coverage of women's races.BASI Nordic Ski Instructor
Instagramme0 -
In 2008 just before the Olympics Cooke and Pooley and some other GB women entered the Ras De Cymru - aan amateur six stage race for category 2 riders and below. Pooley won a stage and Cooke was eighth or ninth on GC. So that's about their standard.Just out of curiosity, what would be the likely outcome if the best in the womens peloton were allowed to mix it up with the men? Is there a gargantuan performance difference or would they be just as good as Team Cannondale say!?Twitter: @RichN950 -
Sky are reaching 100% of the pro cycling audience already. Why double pay for the same people?
OK that's the business view.
Yes they could benefit from sponsoring a women's team ethically but their money will be optimised to reach sports fans in this market who they are already blanket covering.
But this isn't about reaching Pro-Cycling fans. As RR2 stated you would be vying for another audience. Pro-cycling fans are 90% male, partly because it such a male dominated sport.
Go back 40 years and the same problem faced a lot of women's sports.
This isn't about quotas or ethics, IMHO there is an untapped, largely female audience that nobody seems to take seriously. An audience with money to spend.It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.0 -
Perhaps I'm a bit naive, but was quite shocked when I checked the stage profiles of the Women's Tour to see just how short and flat they were.
Stage 1) 112km and 850m ascent
Stage 2) 140 and 1000
Stage 3) 140 and 1600
Stage 4) 100 and 1100
Stage 5) 100 and 1400
Isn't the pull of pro cycling the amazing feats of punishment they have to put themselves through, climbing mountains, tackling cobbles etc. The above stage profiles are pretty much what I rode last week, although I'll be the first to admit nowhere near as quickly as the women.0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19700020#p19700020]Richmond Racer 2[/url] wrote:That's a bigger issue. No time to watch it in the first place. Even for hardcore nerds.
Which is why womens racing needs to carve out new audiences, rather than just attempt to attract the existing established audience for mens racing
tbf I think those trying to progress womens racing, do get that
The other side of that argument is that it seems to make logical sense to have a women's race run in conjunction with the men's race using all the infrastructure already in place.“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
Sky are reaching 100% of the pro cycling audience already. Why double pay for the same people?
OK that's the business view.
Yes they could benefit from sponsoring a women's team ethically but their money will be optimised to reach sports fans in this market who they are already blanket covering.
But this isn't about reaching Pro-Cycling fans. As RR2 stated you would be vying for another audience. Pro-cycling fans are 90% male, partly because it such a male dominated sport.
Go back 40 years and the same problem faced a lot of women's sports.
This isn't about quotas or ethics, IMHO there is an untapped, largely female audience that nobody seems to take seriously. An audience with money to spend.
But Sky are not going to spend millions and millions trying to build that. Untapped maybe, but the infrastructure is not in place, the TV channels and their coverage are not in place, the races aren't really in place. I'm not saying any of this is right by the way, but Sky's media/ad agency is not going to recommend this how it stands currently.0 -
Yeah I think people are about right saying the top level world class women as about 2nd cat male standard, I don't see the point in women racing over 150k there isn't the strength in depth in women cycling to make it a good race beyond that distance. You can't expect mens PT teams to all have womens teams when every year they fold as it is there just wouldn't be enough money for it, or riders i imagine.
The other problem i imagine they have for sponsors is, you have a sponsor wanting to sponsor a cycling team, I guess there isn't a massive difference in budget between a top womens team and a smaller pro conti team, but the mens pro conti team would still offer greater exposure. The women riders ask for more money but they talent pool of women cyclists is so much smaller than for men why should they yield similar salaries?
Despite what I said above its not that I am against women cycling, get getting bigger could only be a good thing but what i mentioned are why it will struggle to grow0
