Why no Sky women's team?
Sky want maximum exposure through cycling, back both men and women on the track and have a conveyor belt of class female cyclists coming off the UK programme. They also have media to raise the profile of the sport.
Given that the cost of running a women's team would be a fraction of Chris Froome's salary and there would be so much overlap with the men's coaching and logistics, why don't Sky make it so?
Given that the cost of running a women's team would be a fraction of Chris Froome's salary and there would be so much overlap with the men's coaching and logistics, why don't Sky make it so?
It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.
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Contador is the Greatest0
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Sky want maximum exposure through cycling, back both men and women on the track and have a conveyor belt of class female cyclists coming off the UK programme. They also have media to raise the profile of the sport.
Given that the cost of running a women's team would be a fraction of Chris Froome's salary and there would be so much overlap with the men's coaching and logistics, why don't Sky make it so?
For starters, because the sponsor isnt interested and its difficult to get them interested when you cant secure GB's top marquee female rider to lead the team. And you'd struggle to make up a really competitive team with a really decent core of GB women at its heart, who could take on the likes of RaboLiv, Boels-Dolman, Wiggle Honda etc.
There are many reasons, but thats one of them. Another is that there's a strong belief that BC really dont know how to handle professional women road racers. And that's plenty of examples to back that up (freezing out poor Sharon Laws, being one of them).0 -
Scary :shock:It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19699735#p19699735]Richmond Racer 2[/url] wrote:
For starters, because the sponsor isnt interested and its difficult to get them interested when you cant secure GB's top marquee female rider to lead the team. And you'd struggle to make up a really competitive team with a really decent core of GB women at its heart, who could take on the likes of RaboLiv, Boels-Dolman, Wiggle Honda etc.
There are many reasons, but thats one of them. Another is that there's a strong belief that BC really dont know how to handle professional women road racers. And that's plenty of examples to back that up (freezing out poor Sharon Laws, being one of them).
But wasn't the same said about the men's team when it started. Wiggins was contracted to Garmin and they couldn't handle roadies (Dan Martin, Mark Cavendish)It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19699735#p19699735]Richmond Racer 2[/url] wrote:
For starters, because the sponsor isnt interested and its difficult to get them interested when you cant secure GB's top marquee female rider to lead the team. And you'd struggle to make up a really competitive team with a really decent core of GB women at its heart, who could take on the likes of RaboLiv, Boels-Dolman, Wiggle Honda etc.
There are many reasons, but thats one of them. Another is that there's a strong belief that BC really dont know how to handle professional women road racers. And that's plenty of examples to back that up (freezing out poor Sharon Laws, being one of them).
But wasn't the same said about the men's team when it started. Wiggins was contracted to Garmin and they couldn't handle roadies (Dan Martin, Mark Cavendish)
Their success rate has been 30% then...?
Not a glowing endorsementWe're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19699735#p19699735]Richmond Racer 2[/url] wrote:
For starters, because the sponsor isnt interested and its difficult to get them interested when you cant secure GB's top marquee female rider to lead the team. And you'd struggle to make up a really competitive team with a really decent core of GB women at its heart, who could take on the likes of RaboLiv, Boels-Dolman, Wiggle Honda etc.
There are many reasons, but thats one of them. Another is that there's a strong belief that BC really dont know how to handle professional women road racers. And that's plenty of examples to back that up (freezing out poor Sharon Laws, being one of them).
But wasn't the same said about the men's team when it started. Wiggins was contracted to Garmin and they couldn't handle roadies (Dan Martin, Mark Cavendish)
And once Cav had got a cob on and re-signed with Highroad, what did Brailsford and Sky do to avoid not having a marquee British rider leading the team when it launched? Persuaded BW to leave during the 09 Tour, got on a plane to the US and spent 6 hours locked in a room with JV, Ellis and Garmin's lawyers, agreed to pay a MAHOOSIVE sum of money to buy out BW's contract (4m is the word), a sum so large vs Garmin's budget that JV was telling journos 3 years later that Garmin were still spending that money
Never gonna happen with Lizzie0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19699767#p19699767]Richmond Racer 2[/url] wrote:
Never gonna happen with Lizzie
Why? Genuine question. You seem to know your stuff.It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19699767#p19699767]Richmond Racer 2[/url] wrote:
Never gonna happen with Lizzie
Why? Genuine question. You seem to know your stuff.
For starters, there's not a great relationship between Lizzie and BC. She doesn't feel that they care much about womens road racing and wont back it properly, from the Academy concept and beyond.
She also has a fantastic relationship with the likes of Danny Stam at Boels-Dolmans (they moved there together when AA Drink-leontien folded)0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19699773#p19699773]Richmond Racer 2[/url] wrote:[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19699767#p19699767]Richmond Racer 2[/url] wrote:
Never gonna happen with Lizzie
Why? Genuine question. You seem to know your stuff.
For starters, there's not a great relationship between Lizzie and BC. She doesn't feel that they care much about womens road racing and wont back it properly, from the Academy concept and beyond.
She also has a fantastic relationship with the likes of Danny Stam at Boels-Dolmans (they moved there together when AA Drink-leontien folded)
Fair enough, but wouldn't the creation of a women's team show that BC cares about women's racing?
Seems like a missed opportunity to me.It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.0 -
Not a surprise is it. BC are really not a nice organization.
Armitstead has class and is another rider who has crafted her own success on the macadam of Europe.Contador is the Greatest0 -
Bloody Lizzie.
Typical pushy woman. Gets her big break with a bike insurance TV ad, but that's not enough, oh no.
Surely that's paid for more than enough nail polish and chat magazines to see her through the winter - how much does a girl need?0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19699773#p19699773]Richmond Racer 2[/url] wrote:[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19699767#p19699767]Richmond Racer 2[/url] wrote:
Never gonna happen with Lizzie
Why? Genuine question. You seem to know your stuff.
For starters, there's not a great relationship between Lizzie and BC. She doesn't feel that they care much about womens road racing and wont back it properly, from the Academy concept and beyond.
She also has a fantastic relationship with the likes of Danny Stam at Boels-Dolmans (they moved there together when AA Drink-leontien folded)
Fair enough, but wouldn't the creation of a women's team show that BC cares about women's racing?
Seems like a missed opportunity to me.
And for that they'd need a headline sponsor. And its not Sky. To be honest, Ian Drake & team have had to make a higher priority of sorting out the replacement sponsor for Sky for British Cycling, post-Rio (though Sky will continue to sponsor the trade team).
Companies been beating down BC's door to take over from Sky, mind, by what I've heard. Name to be announced very soon.0 -
Bloody Lizzie.
Typical pushy woman. Gets her big break with a bike insurance TV ad, but that's not enough, oh no.
Surely that's paid for more than enough nail polish and chat magazines to see her through the winter - how much does a girl need?
She's got fair basis for some of her views tbf0 -
Fair enough, but wouldn't the creation of a women's team show that BC cares about women's racing?
Seems like a missed opportunity to me.
Wiggle Honda is to BC what Sky is isnt it? That's certainly what it used to be but it seems like Dani King and Laura Trott at least have not found it so useful.
I think the main issue - as RR said - is that there is nt really a flagship British rider to front the team. Lizzie might be consistent but the reality is she is not a PFP, a Voss or a Van der Breggen and there is no one behind her at the moment. The equivalent GB woman to Wiggins is Laura Trott and she doesnt need a team for one event and has the GB pursuit team for the other.We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
In my view all WT men's teams should operate a parallel women's team. Realise funding issues etc etc. But if the Velon franchise idea ever gets off the ground a key requirement of the franchise should be to run a women's team as well.0
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Yes, until women's cycling gets rid of the likes Rabo Liv, Boels-Dolman and Wiggle and replaces them with misogynists like Oleg Tinkov it will never move forward. For too long they have been run by people who care when they need to be supported by people who view them as burden.In my view all WT men's teams should operate a parallel women's team.Twitter: @RichN950 -
Yes, until women's cycling gets rid of the likes Rabo Liv, Boels-Dolman and Wiggle and replaces them with misogynists like Oleg Tinkov it will never move forward. For too long they have been run by people who care when they need to be supported by people who view them as burden.In my view all WT men's teams should operate a parallel women's team.
Maybe engaging in the reality of women's cycling would stop him spouting off shoot...0 -
Fair enough, but wouldn't the creation of a women's team show that BC cares about women's racing?
Seems like a missed opportunity to me.
Wiggle Honda is to BC what Sky is isnt it? That's certainly what it used to be but it seems like Dani King and Laura Trott at least have not found it so useful.
I think the main issue - as RR said - is that there is nt really a flagship British rider to front the team. Lizzie might be consistent but the reality is she is not a PFP, a Voss or a Van der Breggen and there is no one behind her at the moment. The equivalent GB woman to Wiggins is Laura Trott and she doesnt need a team for one event and has the GB pursuit team for the other.
You are joking re Armistead's place in the peloton, I can only assume? She is one of the top riders in the female peloton, there is absolutely no doubt. She may not have a rainbow jersey but I simply dont know how you can say she's not on a par with van der Breggen, for starters. As for Vos, the others have been catching up with her, even before her injury-ruined season. Her utter dominance is no longer there.
Trott is nothing like Wiggins, her only strength on the road is sprinting (her road TTing and her climbing dont stack up well when she's competing outside the UK and against intl competition). And she'll lose more sprints than she'll win, amongst the big names.
She is riding for this season for Matrix Fitness, as is Barker. Rowsell's moved over to join Storey and Archibald at Pearl Izumi.
Neither of these teams are of the same high level as Wiggle Honda, which is significant - and both are accommodating a BC schedule for Trott, Barker and King this year that allows their track racing and training programmes to take priority over the road. Gilmore on the other hand has huge road goals for Wiggle Honda...
Dani King is still there, and concentrating on a full road season. Goal is to try something different, still with the goal of making the GB squad for Rio with a stronger endurance base from a year on the road.0 -
Yes, until women's cycling gets rid of the likes Rabo Liv, Boels-Dolman and Wiggle and replaces them with misogynists like Oleg Tinkov it will never move forward. For too long they have been run by people who care when they need to be supported by people who view them as burden.In my view all WT men's teams should operate a parallel women's team.
Maybe engaging in the reality of women's cycling would stop him spouting off shoot...
Dash, the arse referred to women as 'long legged sluts'
You really think he should be sponsoring a womens team?0 -
Yes, until women's cycling gets rid of the likes Rabo Liv, Boels-Dolman and Wiggle and replaces them with misogynists like Oleg Tinkov it will never move forward. For too long they have been run by people who care when they need to be supported by people who view them as burden.In my view all WT men's teams should operate a parallel women's team.
See JV and co when they inherited the Cervelo womens team. It wasnt good.
As Pooley herself has said, foisting a rule on reluctant WT teams and their sponsors whereby they HAVE to run a womens team too, would likely do more harm than good, and certainly wouldnt help the female riders.0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19699863#p19699863]Richmond Racer 2[/url] wrote:
Yes, until women's cycling gets rid of the likes Rabo Liv, Boels-Dolman and Wiggle and replaces them with misogynists like Oleg Tinkov it will never move forward. For too long they have been run by people who care when they need to be supported by people who view them as burden.In my view all WT men's teams should operate a parallel women's team.
Maybe engaging in the reality of women's cycling would stop him spouting off shoot...
Dash, the ars* referred to women as 'long legged sluts'
You really think he should be sponsoring a womens team?
Shouldn't really be sponsoring a men's team either, tbf...Team My Man 2018: David gaudu, Pierre Latour, Romain Bardet, Thibaut pinot, Alexandre Geniez, Florian Senechal, Warren Barguil, Benoit Cosnefroy0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19699859#p19699859]Richmond Racer 2[/url] wrote:Fair enough, but wouldn't the creation of a women's team show that BC cares about women's racing?
Seems like a missed opportunity to me.
Wiggle Honda is to BC what Sky is isnt it? That's certainly what it used to be but it seems like Dani King and Laura Trott at least have not found it so useful.
I think the main issue - as RR said - is that there is nt really a flagship British rider to front the team. Lizzie might be consistent but the reality is she is not a PFP, a Voss or a Van der Breggen and there is no one behind her at the moment. The equivalent GB woman to Wiggins is Laura Trott and she doesnt need a team for one event and has the GB pursuit team for the other.
You are joking re Armistead's place in the peloton, I can only assume? She is one of the top riders in the female peloton, there is absolutely no doubt. She may not have a rainbow jersey but I simply dont know how you can say she's not on a par with van der Breggen, for starters. As for Vos, the others have been catching up with her, even before her injury-ruined season. Her utter dominance is no longer there.
Trott is nothing like Wiggins, her only strength on the road is sprinting (her road TTing and her climbing dont stack up well when she's competing outside the UK and against intl competition). And she'll lose more sprints than she'll win, amongst the big names.
She is riding for this season for Matrix Fitness, as is Barker. Rowsell's moved over to join Storey and Archibald at Pearl Izumi.
Neither of these teams are of the same high level as Wiggle Honda, which is significant - and both are accommodating a BC schedule for Trott, Barker and King this year that allows their track racing and training programmes to take priority over the road. Gilmore on the other hand has huge road goals for Wiggle Honda...
Dani King is still there, and concentrating on a full road season. Goal is to try something different, still with the goal of making the GB squad for Rio with a stronger endurance base from a year on the road.
I dig your vibe
The trouble is that Cycling is a sport where the only thing that matters is crossing the line first. Lizzie is EBH like in being second across the line but the headlines go to the winner. That makes her a shoe in for the World Cup but that's just not much of a big deal
Trott is like Wiggins in that she brings the money from outside. You can put on a revolution series with Cav and Armitstead on the bill and it might sell well, but if you put Wiggins and Trott on the bill then it will sell out in an hour. That's not fair to Lizzie and Mark but it's the reality. Only Brad could start up a junior team using only his name - Pinerello and SRAM wouldnt give their stuff to "Team CVNDSH"
I agree that when Wiggle became Wiggle Honda it branched away from what was set up and all power to Rochelle Gilmore for building what she has/isWe're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19699863#p19699863]Richmond Racer 2[/url] wrote:
Yes, until women's cycling gets rid of the likes Rabo Liv, Boels-Dolman and Wiggle and replaces them with misogynists like Oleg Tinkov it will never move forward. For too long they have been run by people who care when they need to be supported by people who view them as burden.In my view all WT men's teams should operate a parallel women's team.
Maybe engaging in the reality of women's cycling would stop him spouting off shoot...
Dash, the ars* referred to women as 'long legged sluts'
You really think he should be sponsoring a womens team?
No. But simply pigeonholing him as a misogynist isn't going to stop him saying that stuff or change his view.0 -
Only Brad could start up a junior team using only his name - Pinerello and SRAM wouldnt give their stuff to "Team CVNDSH"
Not sure about that. I'm expecting Dimension Data - CVNDSH next season...0 -
Here's my World Champs promo concept I sent through to the promoters: I feel it really encapsulates where the world's best riders stand in the consciousness of the public and promoters alike.
For the women, it starts with shots of lots of happy, pretty ladies - ideally with make-up - in their colourful kit all smiling and doing those hand gestures like what they do in the Vox Women. Ideally, we'd want to steer clear of the more dykey looking ones. Then a few abstract close up/pull focus/wonky camera angles of shiny bikes and components (good for the bike sponsors!) - but with lots of lovely soft and smooth lady body parts accidentally also in shot. I thought it might be nice to see one or two shots of them actually riding (optional) and chatting in a friendly manner and waving. Then some shots of excited spectators -somehow capturing in the faces of the little girls who want to be them, teenage boys who dream of sleeping with them and important looking business men with expensive sunglasses who are thinking how they can promote their ailing company.
Then, in a clever twist for the US market, we see some really fit all-American cheerleaders with pink pom-poms.
As we zoom in on the sun-glinting taffeta of a pom-pom, it turns into a million butterflies which then turns into a sky full of glittering fireworks that fade in a pink-tinged sunset sky, to reveal the end card giving details of the WC timetable for the younger and older ladies. As for music, I thought a strong, independent minded female artist who hasn't had to compromise herself to get ahead - perhaps Britney or Miley Cyrus?
I won't go into my vision for the men's now, but loosely, I've shoe-horned in themes of cowboys and indians (representing those white riders of European descent battling it out with the Colombians), fighter jets, some tanks for the German riders - and some big cats (leopards, lions, cheetahs, etc) to represent the recent surge in popularity of African riders. Music wise, if we can get it cleared, 'Sweet Home Alabama' by Lynyrd Skynyrd as Alabama's close enough to Virginia. Failing that, some techno.
I haven't heard back yet.0 -
Here's my World Champs promo concept I sent through to the promoters: I feel it really encapsulates where the world's best riders stand in the consciousness of the public and promoters alike.
For the women, it starts with shots of lots of happy, pretty ladies - ideally with make-up - in their colourful kit all smiling and doing those hand gestures like what they do in the Vox Women. Ideally, we'd want to steer clear of the more dykey looking ones. Then a few abstract close up/pull focus/wonky camera angles of shiny bikes and components (good for the bike sponsors!) - but with lots of lovely soft and smooth lady body parts accidentally also in shot. I thought it might be nice to see one or two shots of them actually riding (optional) and chatting in a friendly manner and waving. Then some shots of excited spectators -somehow capturing in the faces of the little girls who want to be them, teenage boys who dream of sleeping with them and important looking business men with expensive sunglasses who are thinking how they can promote their ailing company.
Then, in a clever twist for the US market, we see some really fit all-American cheerleaders with pink pom-poms.
As we zoom in on the sun-glinting taffeta of a pom-pom, it turns into a million butterflies which then turns into a sky full of glittering fireworks that fade in a pink-tinged sunset sky, to reveal the end card giving details of the WC timetable for the younger and older ladies. As for music, I thought a strong, independent minded female artist who hasn't had to compromise herself to get ahead - perhaps Britney or Miley Cyrus?
I won't go into my vision for the men's now, but loosely, I've shoe-horned in themes of cowboys and indians (representing those white riders of European descent battling it out with the Colombians), fighter jets, some tanks for the German riders - and some big cats (leopards, lions, cheetahs, etc) to represent the recent surge in popularity of African riders. Music wise, if we can get it cleared, 'Sweet Home Alabama' by Lynyrd Skynyrd as Alabama's close enough to Virginia. Failing that, some techno.
I haven't heard back yet.
Oleg, is that you? And have you been on the Vodka already?It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.0 -
Only Brad could start up a junior team using only his name - Pinerello and SRAM wouldnt give their stuff to "Team CVNDSH"
Not sure about that. I'm expecting Dimension Data - CVNDSH next season...
Cav and Oakley are very tight - he couldn't get them to splash some more sponsorship cash for named team could he?0 -
Most original posts hat definitely goes to OCDuPalais. Nice work.
As an aside, where is Macaloon?Contador is the Greatest0 -
Only Brad could start up a junior team using only his name - Pinerello and SRAM wouldnt give their stuff to "Team CVNDSH"
Not sure about that. I'm expecting Dimension Data - CVNDSH next season...
Cav and Oakley are very tight - he couldn't get them to splash some more sponsorship cash for named team could he?
Not sure what's in that for OakleyWe're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0
