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two fingers to redundancy

Clockworkmark31Clockworkmark31 Posts: 1,053
edited July 2015 in The Crudcatcher
Time of the year again where redundancies are going out across all departments. This time I am worried as my line has been affected. But the other three people who do the same job as me do not do the same job as me.

One changes every component and puts it through a functional test until it passes, the other has eyes of a hawk but doesn't understand a functional tester will not warm a PCB to the max operating temp and doesn't understand how a faulty component can pass a test, the other blags their way.

My line has stopped but more and more work and investigations are given to me, to look in to, yet I feel I have to prove myself against someone who does not understand an NTC, someone who does not know how to safely power up a PCB and someone who blags there way.

Normal or messed up.

Or do management want an unskilled sheep.
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  • thekickingmulethekickingmule Posts: 7,957
    I understood about 35% of that.

    That said, don't worry. If management are giving you investigations to look into, and you feel that your line of work has been changed from the others, there's a good chance that management are doing it to keep you and get rid of the other/s.

    Saying that though, always be on the look out for something else.
    It takes as much courage to have tried and failed as it does to have tried and succeeded.
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  • tlw1tlw1 Posts: 18,361
    If they were to have an unfortunate accident - you wouldn't need to worry.......
  • Clockworkmark31Clockworkmark31 Posts: 1,053
    If they were to have an unfortunate accident - you wouldn't need to worry.......

    Yes this is true, but I wouldn't wish it on anybody.
  • Clockworkmark31Clockworkmark31 Posts: 1,053
    I understood about 35% of that.

    That said, don't worry. If management are giving you investigations to look into, and you feel that your line of work has been changed from the others, there's a good chance that management are doing it to keep you and get rid of the other/s.

    Saying that though, always be on the look out for something else.

    Basically I work in an electronics manufacturing company and I am one of the assigned repair/electronic techs per line. We have four main lines each one with someone like me, have been told redundancies are happening across all areas. Understand all of this and know why they need to happen.

    My line has been affected the most I think it has run for one month since new year. Yet I am stacked out with more work than the other people who do my job, looking in to root cause issues from different lines, finding the real issue with low yield stuff, doing customer returns (diagnosing to component level) working with test engineers to iron out false fails etc. Basically I am more busy now than what I have been before, I am qualified rather than in house "trained" am involved in various aspects yet I feel I am the most at risk due to my line not running and the new lean system we are adopting/forcing.
  • Clockworkmark31Clockworkmark31 Posts: 1,053
    Hence my two fingers to redundancy as I feel I will be in the firing line. We got told by the end of the month this will happen and it's almost knocking. Last time, same thing happened general announcement then said date arrived and people dispersed immediately. Almost like they have a hit list.
  • thekickingmulethekickingmule Posts: 7,957
    If you say you do all the extra stuff that the others don't, and the management have noticed it, then you're fine.

    My actual opinion on it though, is that it sounds like you work for a sinking ship. If they are doing this more and more, you might avoid redundancy now, but what about in 2 months time? What about 6 months? I'd definitely be looking elsewhere.
    It takes as much courage to have tried and failed as it does to have tried and succeeded.
    Join us on UK-MTB we won't bite, but bring cake!
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  • benpinnickbenpinnick Posts: 4,148
    Thekickingmule is right, even the most incompetent manager can spot someone thats good at their job. Redundancies are usually an excuse to trim out the dead wood anyway. However, the economic market is bouyant, growth is up etc. If your company is cutting back you're in the wrong company. Personally I would think about moving on - an easy way to a new role, pay increase and _hopefully_ better job security. Time it right and you might get a redundancy payout too!
    A Flock of Birds
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  • thekickingmulethekickingmule Posts: 7,957
    Thekickingmule is right,
    Quoted before it's changed.
    It takes as much courage to have tried and failed as it does to have tried and succeeded.
    Join us on UK-MTB we won't bite, but bring cake!
    Blender Cube AMS Pro
  • veronese68veronese68 Posts: 22,800 Lives Here
    Sounds like they would be idiots to get rid of you rather than one of the others. Unfortunately they may turn out to be idiots. What the others have said sounds like sense, look elsewhere and get out when you can. If you are qualified rather than just in-house trained you should be able to get a job without too much difficulty. If you've worked there a long time you could take a chance and hold out for redundancy, but that is soul destroying.
  • Antm81Antm81 Posts: 1,406
    I'm shocked, we're in the CC and every answer has been sensible.
  • veronese68veronese68 Posts: 22,800 Lives Here
    If they were to have an unfortunate accident - you wouldn't need to worry.......

    Yes this is true, but I wouldn't wish it on anybody.
    Any ditches nearby?
  • tlw1tlw1 Posts: 18,361
    I'm shocked, we're in the CC and every answer has been sensible.

    aherm..............
  • To the op - weren't you posting back end of last year about problems at work? From what I remember you weren't happy there and a bit stressed out. 6months later it doesn't sound much better? Have you looked for alternatives?
  • FishFishFishFish Posts: 2,238
    Well if there are some redundancies across the board then this is not re-sizing by removing a product line so is this not just a timing issue for you?
    ...take your pickelf on your holibobs.... :D

    jeez :roll:
  • Clockworkmark31Clockworkmark31 Posts: 1,053
    Thanks for the responses.

    And some of you have a good memory. I do actually enjoy my job when I am given a free reign to find the problem and I will mostly find the problem, I have been investigating one product for two weeks now due to so many components failing and have finally come to the cause of the problem. But this is only because I had extra time to delve into all possibilities. So now I have suggested a preventive maintenance program for said testing cassettes.

    Yes I am looking for alternative work, but given my location and skills I think I would have to relocate. I was worried about lean changes when they first started and I think recent things in work have only escalated the problems.

    Trying not to go in to too many details here as someone may realize the company.

    Correct I am working for a sinking ship (I hope this can be turned around) where private equity investors are throwing lots of resources and new people in order for them to recoup the initial investment. For me this is too little too late, and having looked at and listened to the investors plans to grow and save the company it is better than and more logical than the lean teams vision. For me the lean team who came in just made visual changes and sorted nothing out, good gift of the gab.

    But I don't know who the investors will be listening to now seems as the majority of people with power are the lean team and the original owners have been forced out.

    I am pretty convinced it is a numbers game now, we are not turning over x amount hence we don't need x amount of people.

    Me and a colleague have reckoned today (Friday will be the best day) majority of staff have been paid, office and lab staff finish when the second shift starts so this would stop people from communicating etc.

    We will see month end is on Tuesday, Ideal time would be today.

    But my gut feeling is I will be let go, but I am not sure new management will be aware of my skills and what I do. Instead only listening to lower level management with who I have argued against before for their lack of knowledge in decision making.
  • thekickingmulethekickingmule Posts: 7,957
    You need to talk with your boss to get your job description updated. If it says on your job description that you're doing all this extra work compared to your colleagues, then it doesn't matter who's in charge, they'll get rid of the people doing the least.

    If a new job involves relocating, I'd still be looking. In fact, I'm in the exact same position, a new job will involve me moving, and the sooner I get out of Leeds, the better!
    It takes as much courage to have tried and failed as it does to have tried and succeeded.
    Join us on UK-MTB we won't bite, but bring cake!
    Blender Cube AMS Pro
  • bg13bg13 Posts: 4,598
    Push for redundancy, blow the wedge on hookers and blow etc ditches etc
    Loving life in rural SW France

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  • FishFishFishFish Posts: 2,238
    You need to talk with your boss to get your job description updated. If it says on your job description that you're doing all this extra work compared to your colleagues, then it doesn't matter who's in charge, they'll get rid of the people doing the least.

    I agree with your sentiment but maybe not the approach. Everyone, even the incompetent boss does over and above the job description. Codifying extra work in the JD just reduces your options and may be provocative. The company will never get rid of the people who do the least work because they could never justify this in an industrial tribunal.
    ...take your pickelf on your holibobs.... :D

    jeez :roll:
  • sheepsteethsheepsteeth Posts: 17,418 Webster
    TL:DR

    But bearing this in mind my advice is to kick the door to your Boss's office clean off it's hinges walk in and present your obvious and necessarys to him.

    Say literally nothing then leave his office.

    Goback to work

    Job done.
  • Clockworkmark31Clockworkmark31 Posts: 1,053
    TL:DR??? That would be one ballsy move but the look and shock on his face would be priceless.

    I won't get redundancy not been at the company for two years, best I can hope for is four weeks notice.

    Again great answers, not sure if updating my job details is the correct way, I maybe wrong. Maybe if I am a chosen one then ask them how they came to this decision and put them on the spot and see if they can give a reasonable answer as to why I lost out to people who don't have the same skills as me that are needed. And inform them of all the extra I do, if they say they weren't aware of this. I will then politely tell them I believe they never looked at peoples skills or experience or anything and instead compiled a hit list of people they don't want rather than making a position redundant and inform them that this is all very tribunal sounding.

    But I am hypothesizing, not a single thing happened today, heard about lots of board meetings, so it looks like it will be down to the wire when they do it. Cr*p way if you ask me.

    But 20 people will lose job's and then the second wave of people who looked and applied for jobs thinking they might lose their job. As usual wrong decisions will be made and the good ones will go leaving only blind leading the blind.

    How it sucks I want to find one company and stay with them on a progressive career path not keep changing to different companies doing the best I can only to get made redundant and start all over again. If this happens it will be the third time now, previous two times companies went in to admin.

    FFS what century are we in and we are an electronics manufacturer who should always be at the forefront of technology and we have people cooking up ideas of having smiling (green) and sad (red) faces to stick on magnetic boards to highlight issues and people checking them daily and having meetings about them. F me a five year old could come up with a better idea, lean team spend half of their days in these types of meetings good way to be efficient. Should be action and reaction, not action 5 different meetings and we will consider action. :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

    Oh well cheered myself up today at work after doing some number crunching on a particular fault for one product and came to the magical number of 6.66% fails due to this issue, left me with a satisfying smile compiling a report.
  • Clockworkmark31Clockworkmark31 Posts: 1,053
    Thanks for listening and replying anyway just need somewhere to vent my frustration. Don't want to show her I am worried and don't want to speak about it at work as it may be a sign of weakness.
  • Clockworkmark31Clockworkmark31 Posts: 1,053
    It has just struck me that 20 people are being made redundant and no consultation period has happened. Only an initial announcement and waiting for said day. Correct me if I am wrong but should this not be required by law?
  • VWsurfbumVWsurfbum Posts: 7,959
    TL:DR

    But bearing this in mind my advice is to kick the door to your Boss's office clean off it's hinges walk in and present your obvious and necessarys to him.

    Say literally nothing then leave his office.

    Goback to work

    Job done.
    It needs a little bit of music at the same time though? I dunno something like this? Clicky
    Kazza the Tranny
    Now for sale Fatty
  • JBAJBA Posts: 2,630
    It has just struck me that 20 people are being made redundant and no consultation period has happened. Only an initial announcement and waiting for said day. Correct me if I am wrong but should this not be required by law?

    For between 20 and 99 redundancies a consultaion period of at least 30 days before the first redundancy takes effect is required.

    Have a read through THIS.
    “Life has been unfaithful
    And it all promised so so much”

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  • Clockworkmark31Clockworkmark31 Posts: 1,053
    I love horses hahaha that would be a mind f**k for the manager. Foo Fighters - Low.

    Well received an email today at finishing time in true fashion stating the date when said redundancies will be complete by. Any in the letter "up to 20 people" given the date I think they will keep it under the magic number to avoid consultation.

    Departments that are going to be affected have also been mentioned too. One of them was production technicians (I assume this to be plant machine technicians) and the other was Quality (many other departments mentioned too). Now on my contract it states repair technician so I guess I wouldn't fall under production technician (I do work in production, but repair production product fails) and my manger I believe is head of quality so not sure if I fall under quality.
  • sheepsteethsheepsteeth Posts: 17,418 Webster
    Im sure everyone is aware that the Army has delivered a large number of redundancys in the last few years. Luckily i was not in any of the brackets when the tranches came out but a website all of my mates used to check what's what is here.

    It didnt really do much for anyone other than confirm that The MOD had done their homework and there was nothing anyone could do about their lot.

    The timescales are detailed here so it might be worth checking that your employers are sticking to the legal precedents

    Hope this helps
  • tlw1tlw1 Posts: 18,361
    Im sure everyone is aware that the Army has delivered a large number of redundancys in the last few years. Luckily i was not in any of the brackets when the tranches came out but a website all of my mates used to check what's what is here.

    It didnt really do much for anyone other than confirm that The MOD had done their homework and there was nothing anyone could do about their lot.

    The timescales are detailed here so it might be worth checking that your employers are sticking to the legal precedents

    Hope this helps

    Good advice, you ok? :)
  • tangled_metaltangled_metal Posts: 3,996
    In my old, old company they often had rounds of redundancy. They were in a voluntary agreement with companies they owed money to. Traded their way out only to start another voluntary agreement just before the first one finished. Dragged on for some time. Also an investment bank who'd bought off the founders who made a killing by leaving at the right time. Money followed more wasted money. So on until it got split up and sold to a few companies.

    Anyway, in the early rounds of redundancies they put out the warning letters to a select few at risk. Then 30 days later people got told who were being finished. They could ask for the reasoning behind the choice, indeed they had to have a.system. In our case it was a points based system. You could argue that they hadn't taken everything into account and try to claim more points to save your job. In the first round at least one person got their decision overturned doing that. However with the second round he went they'd learnt and rigged the system to get rid of those they wanted out. Just they had a system and did all the required stages and kept the right paperwork so those finished.could not have any way to appeal.

    My advice is irrelevant. You know yourself what is happening and that you probably at a.high risk of being out the door no matter what you do. Start looking for a job just in case, you don't have to take up a job if you survive but proactive is something good for yourself.

    Can I just say one more thing, it seems to me that you are very close to moving into another role. You're a repair tech who's moving into a quality role if you ask me. Might be wrong but you're carrying out root cause investigations. You've made a step out of shopfloor repair tech into another time. Well at least in part. Have you considered training up into a more quality / quality management role? I've no experience of electronic industry but automotive has opportunities for people to move into a quality role.

    I wish you good luck whatever happens. Sometimes bad fortune leads to a better life in the future. Opportunities from the negative events.
  • Clockworkmark31Clockworkmark31 Posts: 1,053
    Again thanks for your responses.

    At the moment I am not sure if I fit in to any of the categories listed, if you take my title that is in my contract I certainly don't. But the people who I fall under would suggest I do.

    Well aware that this won't be the last time I am in this situation, the owners are out for reasons that I can't think off but they are not out of pocket. Maybe they have gone at the right time like in the instance above, can't afford investment repayments etc so perfectly timed for them.

    Thanks tangled metal, last time my line stopped I was requested in to the lab to build and fault find on prototypes and help with the test engineering side. Also a job did come up in quality that I did apply for and ticked all the criteria they were looking for. But my timing matched the timing the company seems to be declining.

    Didn't hear anything still not had an interview, but the manager for quality came to me a few months after and said he still has my CV in his bag, may have been to humor me, but he doesn't seem the sort to give false hope.

    If I am being honest my role has sort of developed on its own, I am involved with production fails and repairs in production (job I applied for), test engineering, giving reports to design engineers, customer returns and quality issues to root cause. 90% of the time I am given free reign as I can complete the task in hand or keep up with my main priority of work whilst spending more time in another area.

    Has this worked in my favor I have no idea, it has certainly put me in to confrontational situations with certain departments where I have gone out of my way to prove wrong. But these departments may stay so could go against me.

    If I am being honest with myself I have kind of worked out what I like now, my primary job role is what I always wanted to do. But now I have done or doing it and had a taste in other departments. I've learned I like the initial stage of fault finding, and exploring in to why, same with test equipment and false fails etc, like working out why proving and disproving theories. Once I have satisfied myself for the reason of failure I lose interest and want the next one to go on to etc etc. What department that says I suit I have no idea.
  • Clockworkmark31Clockworkmark31 Posts: 1,053
    Now the most fundamental question I have is.

    We have been taken over by corporate investment group, original owners forced out. Pretty much every department to managements jobs are at risk. Who makes the call as to who stays and goes. Investment people don't know the staff, management could put names forward to save them selves, but if management are affected too, who chooses?

    I know it will be done on a point system, but If I go (still can't figure out if I fall in to said departments) I will be annoyed if no one from HR goes. They have expanded yet we have cut down on staff by at least a quarter, thinking about it HR weren't mentioned as an affected department. Sound's kind of rigged in my mind, but my mind thinks willy wonker is a child killer haha.
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