Cav on the science of sprinting
Comments
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[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19637732#p19637732]disgruntledgoat[/url] wrote:You know the tour must be getting close when the ban hammer comes out
It's like clockwork. The folks that run the trains could learn something from it.
Anyway on Cav's train and HTC, which was a marvellous beauty to behold, it's quite interesting listening to what he has to say about it on the latest Cycling Podcast special (and yes you have to pay to become a Friend of the Podcast to get it and all the other specials, but its well worth it).Correlation is not causation.0 -
Some top grade trolling from Ashbeck up there.
Does this forum always head downhill so quickly round the tour? Swear I didn't notice it so much last year.
Last year we had Rayjay and a few others (who were often just Rayjay aliases). They show up about a month either side of the Tour then fortunately disappear and almost always concentrate on a particular team.0 -
It should also be noted that 16 of Merckx's stage wins were time trials - eight of them 12km or less in split stages which no longer exist.
Does that make a difference? Stage win is a stage win, isn't it?0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19638805#p19638805]greasedscotsman[/url] wrote:It should also be noted that 16 of Merckx's stage wins were time trials - eight of them 12km or less in split stages which no longer exist.
Does that make a difference? Stage win is a stage win, isn't it?
It appears to, if you don't like Cav!Trail fun - Transition Bandit
Road - Wilier Izoard Centaur/Cube Agree C62 Disc
Allround - Cotic Solaris0 -
It appears to, if you don't like Cav!
Confused. Are you saying RichN95 doesn't like Cavendish?0 -
Of course a win is a win. However, I often see Merckx's wins portrayed as though they were all epic victories. But they had about five or six extra stages per Tour back and those extras were short TTs where few bothered and Merckx cleaned up, or short sprints were Cavendish would have cleaned up.[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19638805#p19638805]greasedscotsman[/url] wrote:It should also be noted that 16 of Merckx's stage wins were time trials - eight of them 12km or less in split stages which no longer exist.
Does that make a difference? Stage win is a stage win, isn't it?Twitter: @RichN950 -
Of course a win is a win. However, I often see Merckx's wins portrayed as though they were all epic victories. But they had about five or six extra stages per Tour back and those extras were short TTs where few bothered and Merckx cleaned up, or short sprints were Cavendish would have cleaned up.
OK, fair enough. Don't think you need to down play one rider's achievements to make another's seem better.
Anyway, few years ago it seemed fairly certain that Cavendish would rack up more than 34 TdF wins. How do people think about it now? Will Cavendish, by the end of his career, won more TdF stages than anyone else?0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19638831#p19638831]greasedscotsman[/url] wrote:It appears to, if you don't like Cav!
Confused. Are you saying RichN95 doesn't like Cavendish?
No. It's a reference to the dear old Ashbeck and the "he only wins because......." gang. Rich did a good job of pointing out that whilst statistics may say something the actual story behind them may mean something completely different.
You were right with your summary, a win is a win. Some people just don't like that though
Trail fun - Transition Bandit
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Allround - Cotic Solaris0 -
You were right with your summary, a win is a win. Some people just don't like that though
I do think people don't realise just how difficult it is to win a bunch sprint. The idea that it's an easy win is just stupid.0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19638895#p19638895]greasedscotsman[/url] wrote:You were right with your summary, a win is a win. Some people just don't like that though
I do think people don't realise just how difficult it is to win a bunch sprint. The idea that it's an easy win is just stupid.
I couldn't agree more, and it's pointed out on this thread that Cav hasn't always relied on the HTC train but has been a master of jumping between other people's lead outs and still get the result.Trail fun - Transition Bandit
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Allround - Cotic Solaris0 -
Anyway, few years ago it seemed fairly certain that Cavendish would rack up more than 34 TdF wins. How do people think about it now? Will Cavendish, by the end of his career, won more TdF stages than anyone else?
I mis-read his but will respond anyway - I hadn't clocked that Mercx had won so many (short) time trials in his 34. How about if Cav had been 5 years ealier (i.e. no Kittel and Griepel) - how many wins would he have had then?0 -
I mis-read his but will respond anyway - I hadn't clocked that Mercx had won so many (short) time trials in his 34. How about if Cav had been 5 years ealier (i.e. no Kittel and Griepel) - how many wins would he have had then?
He would just have been up against other sprinters. McEwen, Cipollini, Zabel. I don't think he would have won any more because of it.0 -
Another stage wins stat.
Bernard Hinault is second on the Tour wins list with 28 stages. 20 of those were in Time Trials.
In the 70s and 80s there were loads of time trials. If we'd had those courses in the 2000s, Cancellara would probably have beaten Merckx's record.Twitter: @RichN950 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19638984#p19638984]greasedscotsman[/url] wrote:I mis-read his but will respond anyway - I hadn't clocked that Mercx had won so many (short) time trials in his 34. How about if Cav had been 5 years ealier (i.e. no Kittel and Griepel) - how many wins would he have had then?
He would just have been up against other sprinters. McEwen, Cipollini, Zabel. I don't think he would have won any more because of it.
or indeed any less. i think they were right to award him the best sprinter ever, as he has more victories from sprints than any other, and ideed from other courses as well. that win in 2012 when luis leon sanchez and Nico roche look over their shoulder to see him coming past is one of my favourite ever stage endings...0 -
that win in 2012 when luis leon sanchez and Nico roche look over their shoulder to see him coming past is one of my favourite ever stage endings...
Just got sucked into a Youtube Cavendish sprint win hole because of that - so good when Roche sits up like "wtf" as Cavendish screams past.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKznFKELdVk0 -
that win in 2012 when luis leon sanchez and Nico roche look over their shoulder to see him coming past is one of my favourite ever stage endings...
Just got sucked into a Youtube Cavendish sprint win hole because of that - so good when Roche sits up like "wtf" as Cavendish screams past.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKznFKELdVk
It's only when you watch that you remember exactly how far back he came from for his Milan-San Remo win as well.Trail fun - Transition Bandit
Road - Wilier Izoard Centaur/Cube Agree C62 Disc
Allround - Cotic Solaris0 -
The 2010 Champs Elysees is one of my favourites, seeing Cav fly past Hushovd from that side on angle is superb.0
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I enjoyed that meddley, it's always nice to revisit those. And that Aubenas stage was immense.Correlation is not causation.0
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It's only when you watch that you remember exactly how far back he came from for his Milan-San Remo win as well.
First time I managed to convince my father that watching cycling was worthwhile was by showing him that finish.0 -
that win in 2012 when luis leon sanchez and Nico roche look over their shoulder to see him coming past is one of my favourite ever stage endings...
Just got sucked into a Youtube Cavendish sprint win hole because of that - so good when Roche sits up like "wtf" as Cavendish screams past.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKznFKELdVk
Is it really three years ago that Wiggo was riding in Cav's lead-out train in the MJ?0 -
Cav is a legend whether you like him or not. He is so single (and bloody) minded.
His positioning is almost always spot on, he has acceleration, speed, he has a second kick, he commands respect inside the peloton (ok, maybe not Tom Veelers).
How many other sprinters are consistently as good as Cav. One, maybe two and they have a long way to go before they catch up to his number of wins.
There is definitely an art to sprinting and it's not just speed.0
